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Forum Moderation in the Wake of the PUAHate Killings by Elliot Rodger
05-25-2014, 11:18 AM
Now is not the time to panic. I almost deleted my account here when I found out Master Roosh was targeted by the SPLC. But I stayed and continued to learn from this forum. In the words of Bennie Franklin:
"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
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Forum Moderation in the Wake of the PUAHate Killings by Elliot Rodger
05-25-2014, 11:54 AM
Quote: (05-24-2014 07:34 PM)Que enspastic Wrote:
Amanda Hess from Slate weighs in, special mention to this thread in her article : http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/201...ponse.html
The last psychiatrist did an interesting piece on Amanda Hess's silly opinions.
http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2014/05/c....html#more
You want to know the only thing you can assume about a broken down old man? It's that he's a survivor.
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Forum Moderation in the Wake of the PUAHate Killings by Elliot Rodger
05-25-2014, 02:24 PM
Tuth, it doesn't get said enough, but I'm really grateful for you, Roosh, and the other mods. Thanks for keeping this forum a high quality place where we can have important discussions during events like this.
Read my work on Return of Kings here.
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Forum Moderation in the Wake of the PUAHate Killings by Elliot Rodger
05-26-2014, 03:59 AM
PUA Hate, which I didn't even know about till this week, is dangerous for a reason so obvious we missed it: it contains the word "hate" in its title.
What sort of people would start or join a site with a micro-focus like that? As much as we complain about feminists, overweight women, tattoos, I don't see any of the regular members of this forum joining a group called (for example) Tattooed Chick Hate.
Imagine if this group was re-focused to revolve around "hating" a small wedge of a topic like that. Kind of leaves out room for discussion of the larger context, doesn't it? Even as someone who despises tattoos on women, I'd never join such a group because I'd run out of things to say after a day.
Media types writing about this guy should focus less on the "pick-up" and more on the "hate." Because my guess is if there had not been a site hating PUAs, the killer would have found another site directed towards hating someone else and built his ideology around that. The Virginia Tech killer resented consumerism. I wonder if a "Capitalist Hate" site would have gotten this guy to think women rejected him because they were pawns of commercialism and he'd have attacked people at a department store or someplace like that.
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Forum Moderation in the Wake of the PUAHate Killings by Elliot Rodger
05-26-2014, 10:40 AM
No, that isn't him, think before you post.
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Forum Moderation in the Wake of the PUAHate Killings by Elliot Rodger
05-26-2014, 10:47 AM
Oh ok. I will think from now on thanks for the tip.
So say that's not him. But someone else who because of getting the ban hammer here becomes a member of 'puahate' and starts lashing out at members and any dude trying to learn game and better himself. How is that helping anything?
Think when you read a post. You know what I'm getting at. And if you didn't. Now you do.
I'd assume majority of guys joining here are not banging hot females every weekend. They're probably a lot more like this kid who just killed people because of his frustration with never having a girl.
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Forum Moderation in the Wake of the PUAHate Killings by Elliot Rodger
05-26-2014, 11:13 AM
Posturing is a relative issue to that. Apply the top dog attitude where it fits, but not with all newcomers, especially when it doesn't fit the prescription of aid. More to do with showing out rather than helping the clueless. I don't that was him either, yet I agree that the individual in question was probably in dire need of help.
That really brings this question to the front: is our purpose community outreach, even if it diminishes our gains of self-selected effort for personal betterment? Do we go insular with rabid self interest and basically abandon the community aspect altogether? Is it somewhere in between with less extreme means?
The reality is that there has to be losers. Nature oppresses this reality on all organisms. Helping is humanitarian, but a choice rather than a necessity.
If we go the community movement route and most men become aware of game.
-The only logical following after that would be to start a movement to get men to be at the top of their attraction and play mgtow at the same time to attempt a coup in dating norms, where women would work harder to get male attention and approval(start new norm behaviors away from slob women). To get all men to adhere to a unified strategy seems counterproductive.
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Forum Moderation in the Wake of the PUAHate Killings by Elliot Rodger
05-26-2014, 12:08 PM
"someone else who because of getting the ban hammer here becomes a member of 'puahate' and starts lashing out at members and any dude trying to learn game and better himself. How is that helping anything?"
This is not much of a money making operation - there's no reason to try to cater to as many men as possible at the risk of alienating the more desirable ones. If a guy can't be civil and know when to shut the fuck up yet asks for help and demands advice, there's no place for him here, or among any self-respecting group of men. Even if Rodger came here and we turned him away (for which there is zero evidence), we would still be blameless. This isn't society's toilet bowl.
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Forum Moderation in the Wake of the PUAHate Killings by Elliot Rodger
05-26-2014, 12:17 PM
Instead of speculating whether member XYZ was Rodger himself, why not compile a list of the emails of all present and past (i.e., banned) members of RVF, and search for words "elliot" and "rodger"? Roosh or Tuth could do that, and there's no need to disclose the results of such search, for obvious reasons.
After all, Elliot used his real name on PUAHate.com, which shows his utter cluelessness and suggests that if indeed he ever joined RVF, he probably used an email that does not obscure his real-world identity.
"The great secret of happiness in love is to be glad that the other fellow married her." – H.L. Mencken
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Forum Moderation in the Wake of the PUAHate Killings by Elliot Rodger
05-26-2014, 01:30 PM
Im on mobile so apologies in advance for being terse and misspelling shit.
There are newbies that show up hear looking for help but proceed to ignore all advice when they get it. That pink shirt dude who was trying to pull 18 year olds from the mall back to his Hyundai comes to mind. He posted again about his lack of facial aesthetics and got the ban hammer. His mentality reminds me of Rodger, particularly the obsession with superficial things and his ability to ignore relevant advice. Is it possible to confine these sorts to the newbie forum? They need do need help, and simply banning them sends them to shitholes like wizardchan and puahate.
I realize that this also represents a risk of an influx of trolls, and that has to be considered as well. I'm just trying to think of some way we can have an outreach to these sort of people and provide some sort of personalized advice. The bodybuilding misc forum is a pretty good resource for these types, at the same time few of these ultra omegas have thick enough skin to withstand the inevitable hazing and mockery they will get in between the legit advice they'll receive.
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Forum Moderation in the Wake of the PUAHate Killings by Elliot Rodger
05-26-2014, 01:40 PM
Roosh has mentioned before that he thinks of this place as being like his 'house'.
He's under no obligation to let any degenerate in, even if he were confined to one room (the newbie forum).
A collaborative community such as this starts from a presumption of decency and tolerating toxic characters would greatly diminish its quality.
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Forum Moderation in the Wake of the PUAHate Killings by Elliot Rodger
05-26-2014, 01:59 PM
I agree completely about keeping the place free of undesirables, and inviting people who clearly have issues to be part of a collaborative community does have negative consequences. I'm just trying to think of some way to provide help or guidance to these types because as Roosh showed in his rok article they will receive absolutely no help from any mainstream source, whether that be psychiatrists or school counselors or clueless parents.
It seems like the options are either accepting that these people exist and ostracizing them and condemning them to their fates, or providing a proactive solution and guidance. The former is a lot easier and has a hell of a lot less risk. I recognize the latter is akin to inviting a destructive force into your home.
It's very difficult to accept that doing nothing is the only thing that can be done.
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Forum Moderation in the Wake of the PUAHate Killings by Elliot Rodger
05-26-2014, 02:05 PM
I agree that the support provided to these people is currently unsatisfactory.
The type of intervention someone like Elliot Rodger needs however goes beyond what we could ever hope to achieve in the forum.
Maybe another online community focused more on people with these issues or mentalities could help, but RVF isn't it.
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Forum Moderation in the Wake of the PUAHate Killings by Elliot Rodger
05-26-2014, 02:05 PM
^ How many times have you tried to give a buddy advice regarding a toxic woman or similar, only to have him ignore you completely?
I just see the system for what it is, try my best to navigate my way around it to where I want to be, and be thankful I have this golden opportunity to join the top 10%
They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety- Benjamin Franklin, as if you didn't know...
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Forum Moderation in the Wake of the PUAHate Killings by Elliot Rodger
05-26-2014, 07:06 PM
Elliot Rodger was a lost cause plain and simple. It is not in the average member of this forum's hands or even the higher repped ones to help those who are that far gone. I agree that people need help and we should help when we can, but there is only a limit to what we can do.
I am also of the opinion that self-entitled twats that don't know how to ask for help and instead lash out against members deserve to be banned. Engage in civil argument and take the advice without making it personal. It's not that hard. Too bad that most people these days don't know how to keep their emotions in check(I myself have been guilty of this on occasion so I'm not exactly speaking from a moral high ground but from a logical standpoint). I'm much more for helping those that are civil rather than those who do not know how to behave themselves.
"Until the day when God shall deign to reveal the future to man, all human wisdom is summed up in these two words,— 'Wait and hope'."- Alexander Dumas, "The Count of Monte Cristo"
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Forum Moderation in the Wake of the PUAHate Killings by Elliot Rodger
05-27-2014, 01:11 AM
PUAhate posters always bitched about how women only cared about looks, and how if you were a failure with women you had no chance to improve.
Rodger may have been unstable to begin with, but its not hard to see how the message of hopelessness he heard at puahate could have pushed him over the edge.
That is a terrible website, along with all of the other "incel" websites. Hopefully that sote stays dead.