[Carlos100]

I have a second date lined up with a girl I know through social group for almost four weeks from now. Because of our schedules, that's the first date that both of us are available. Also, in Japan, it's not unusual to set up dates that far in advance.

During the intervening four weeks, should I text her at all? Or, should it be complete communication blackout until about a week out when I tell her what my plan is for the date? Since she lives on her own, I plan on offering to cook her dinner at her place.

Although the first date seemed to go well with lots of kino and good communication, it wouldn't surprise me if she doesn't text me first at all during this time. Japanese girls, IME, often will stay in response mode only until you develop a serious relationship. I will, of course, be working on gaming other girls and may very well go out with one or two others in the meantime.

[Cheetah]

If you can't have a date with her before the four weeks I think that you have more to lose than to win by texting her early. Wait until a few days before the day in question, ask if she is still up for it and if she is, tell her what you plan to do and agree about a place and time.

[kaotic]

Yeah I'd just a wait a few days before to set it up and confirm.

[classicjimmy]

I understand that people are busy but to be honest with you, a month sounds a little far out. I'll confess I've never been to Japan but I feel like the flake rate on dates set more than a week in advance has to be pretty high regardless of location.

That said, there doesn't seem to be much that you can do here. If you can move it closer, do it. It doesn't need to even be a 'date' date, it could even be just a walk around or whatever so you see her alone again. This will make her remember you more, and build connection/attraction, and lead to a lower flake rate.

If that can't happen, then don't text her. Theres not a whole lot you can do just through text, and if you're a newbie you'll be tempted to get in a long drawn out text conversation which absolutely kills attraction, and thus will end up fucking you over. Call her a few days before the date to confirm you're still on.

[TheChef]

(05-05-2014 09:17 PM)classicjimmy Wrote:  

I understand that people are busy but to be honest with you, a month sounds a little far out. I'll confess I've never been to Japan but I feel like the flake rate on dates set more than a week in advance has to be pretty high regardless of location.

I'm with classicjimmy on this one. It's ridiculous to setup a date four weeks in advance, even more than a week unless it's some killer special event...which is for girls you know well.

For a second date, I would see if you can schedule it early.

Hit her up: "I have a friend in town that week, let's do something earlier. How's Thurs?"

You'll get a good barometer on if she's into seeing you or not after this. Either she'll say "yes, Thurs" "yes, but not Thursday" and anything else, including a "maybe," is a No. At least you know where you stand...which you would have most likely found out after waiting four weeks.

[Carlos100]

Thanks everyone for the great advice. Much appreciated. One reason for the time lag for the second date is because I'm married with children, which she is aware of. That's another reason why I don't expect her to text/message me in the meantime, because she figures I'm busy taking care of my family.

The first date with her was one of the first dates I've ever been on where I really, really focused on employing game science. I will recap it here and highlight what I think I did wrong and right. It's totally possible that she will flake on the second date, of course. But since we are part of the same social circle, which is important in Japan, I can wait a few months and try to hit her up again. Here's how the first date went:

Right:
1. I told her to meet me at the train station of my choice instead of asking her where she would like to meet. I took charge from the very beginning.
2. She didn't get off work until 9 p.m. So, I went out to the location a couple of hours in advance and scouted around. I already knew the area fairly well but I wanted to lock down my logistics. I wanted a drinking place close to the love hotel area. I scouted and found two "sofa" bars where we could sit next to each other while drinking. I scouted two in case the first one was full. Wise move.
3. I scouted and found the bounce bar.
4. I dressed a little nicer than most guys would be for the situation. I was wearing dark jeans, a patterned button-up, a flat cap, and a dark waistcoat. Most Japanese don't wear a waistcoat or a flat cap, so it helped for peacocking.
5. We were to meet at 9:30 p.m. I purposefully arrived about three minutes late. She was there waiting on me.
6. I made a specific compliment right off the bat. I told her I liked her shoes because I thought they went well with her outfit. I also greeted her with touching (kino) by taking her hand in and holding it for a few seconds to set the tone.
7. I immediately took charge and led her to the first bar as if I knew what I was doing. The first bar was full, so without skipping a beat I took her to the second, nearby bar. No awkward moments.
8. She tried to sit across the table from me, but I told her to sit next to me on the sofa. In my more beta days I would have been more shy to do this. Really important move.
9. In the resulting conversation I believe I was successful in avoiding the "interrogation". Instead of asking her a series of questions, I would try to give an observation that would implicitely prompt her to talk more, like, "It must be difficult working as a shift supervisor in your work since you have to be in charge of people" and that kind of thing. It seemed to help with deep rapport game.
10. I didn't volunteer any information about myself unless she asked me a specific question. I would give a brief answer, in joking form, then return to focusing on her.
11. I escalated the kino. When I was making an emphasis on something, I would touch her hand or forearm. When I went to the bathroom, I gave her a peck on the cheek and said "I will be right back."
12. I continually teased her. When we talked about her work, I teased her about being attracted to her boss (I know this is a little bit dangerous territory). Whatever she said, I tried to tease her or make a joke about it.
13. I eventually put her hand on my dick. When I did so, I disqualified myself by telling her I was gay and that she should stop trying to convert me. She totally played along with it.
14. I used social proof. When I went to the bathroom, there was another guy wearing a waistcoat in the bar. I smiled and told him I liked his vest while the rest of his crew looked on intensely. When I got back to her she asked me how I knew him. I told her that I just met him. She seemed impressed that I made friends with her male countrymen so easily.
15. Things were going so well that I after about 1 1/2 hours I decided to skip the second venue and go straight to the love hotel. I told here we were going somewhere to listen to music from my I-pod. I had a cord with me that would allow me to connect to a TV set. On the walk to the hotel area (about five minutes) we walked arm-in-arm and I kept talking and joking the entire time to keep her logical mind from kicking in. I stopped her and kissed her once when no one was around. So far so good.

Result:
When we walked into the lobby of the love hotel, she immediately physically resisted. I pushed her fairly hard, saying we would only stay for a short time to listen to music and tried to gently, physically push her the rest of the way. She continued to resist. She then suggested we go to the bar which was the center of our social circle so we grabbed a taxi (which she paid for) and went there for another hour before going our separate ways. I didn't attempt to make out with her in order to avoid buyer's remorse. In the second bar we continued to grope each other. After she would touch me for about 30 seconds, I would throw her hand away and tell her to stop harassing me with a smile. She seemed to enjoy the cat-string thing I was doing. The next day I messaged her and told her I was available on a date two weeks later and four weeks later. She chose the latter.

Areas for improvement:
1. I believe the failure at the love hotel was because (obviously) I hadn't built up quite enough attraction.
2. While at the first bar, I tested her by squeezing her hand. She did not squeeze back although she continued to hold my hand. I should have realized that this meant the attraction needed to built up a little more.
3. I should have used some compliance testing by asking her to do something for me and then rewarding or punishing her based on if or how well she did it. I should have used more kino compliance testing.
4. I got too drunk. We were both drinking heavily but I should have had a plan to covertly drink less than her since I'm such a lightweight. I think it affected my game as the night went on.
5. I probably should have bounced to a second venue for 45 minutes before going for the love hotel. It might would have been the straw that broke the camel's back. I think my inebriation caused me to misinterpret the IOIs she had given me up to that point.

Whether she flakes or not on the next date will be valuable feedback.

[Cheetah]

What I just had in mind after reading your post was if you tried to take the lead after the love hotel and take her to a new venue close to the love hotel? You let her take the lead instead. If being close to the love hotel a second try to get there could have been an option.

Did you try for some make out sessions at your last venue?

By reading your posts I don't think that she will flake on you.

Edited: just read that you didn't try for a make out session due to buyer's remorse? WT*? I am new to this so please explain?

[Carlos100]

(05-10-2014 07:47 AM)Cheetah Wrote:  

What I just had in mind after reading your post was if you tried to take the lead after the love hotel and take her to a new venue close to the love hotel? You let her take the lead instead. If being close to the love hotel a second try to get there could have been an option.

Did you try for some make out sessions at your last venue?

By reading your posts I don't think that she will flake on you.

Edited: just read that you didn't try for a make out session due to buyer's remorse? WT*? I am new to this so please explain?

You're right. I should have kept the frame and taken her to another bar near the love hotel area instead of bailing to the bar she suggested.

From what I have read, and from what I have experienced, if you go to second base or third base on the first date, but don't close the deal, then the girl will often withdraw out of embarrassment for how far she went on the first date. You either have to go all the way, or keep it at first base on the date in order to keep her logical mind from kicking in too strong. If you go all the way to the bang, her hamster will rationalize that the two of you were meant for each other. If you stay at first base, she feels safe that she hasn't compromised her virtue. Anything in between makes her feel like a slut who isn't sure she should have been doing what she was doing with a guy who wasn't committed to her.

[Cheetah]

If you would have gone to another bar near the love hotel would you have tried for a make out session? What you say is I guess true that it could be a risky maneuver while it would probably increase your chances of getting her back to the love hotel instead of relying on a second date.

[Carlos100]

(05-10-2014 08:41 AM)Cheetah Wrote:  

If you would have gone to another bar near the love hotel would you have tried for a make out session? What you say is I guess true that it could be a risky maneuver while it would probably increase your chances of getting her back to the love hotel instead of relying on a second date.

The bar right next to the love hotel area is not conducive to make out sessions because of its layout and because it's a "locals" bar (mainly regulars are there). So, I would have escalated the covert groping (handsies and footsies) under the table and just tried to relax and build more comfort while allowing her hamster to spin. I know the staff at that bar so I would have given them the opportunity to give me some more social proof, which I think they would have done because I had already told them in the past that I might bring a girl there. Then, upon departing, depending on the mood, I would have tried another approach to the lobby again. Perhaps I would reinforce it by going for the makeout on the street. Japanese girls, based on my experience, associate making out directly with the sex act so a simple kiss goes much further with them than it would with western women. This means that a make out is not necessarily necessary to make them understand that sex should be next on the agenda.

[TheChef]

(05-10-2014 08:01 AM)Carlos100 Wrote:  

From what I have read, and from what I have experienced, if you go to second base or third base on the first date, but don't close the deal, then the girl will often withdraw out of embarrassment for how far she went on the first date. You either have to go all the way, or keep it at first base on the date in order to keep her logical mind from kicking in too strong. If you go all the way to the bang, her hamster will rationalize that the two of you were meant for each other. If you stay at first base, she feels safe that she hasn't compromised her virtue. Anything in between makes her feel like a slut who isn't sure she should have been doing what she was doing with a guy who wasn't committed to her.

Seems like a pretty solid date, I would just have made a few changes

- going for your junk too early and in non-private setting could have been saved for later
- drink less
- maybe try renting an apartment so it's more casual then going to a love hotel.
- don't bounce with her back to the social circle. Use the momentum, say you have an early day the next day and game more girls.

[Carlos100]

(05-10-2014 01:12 PM)TheChef Wrote:  

- maybe try renting an apartment so it's more casual then going to a love hotel.

Now that I think about it, I think this is why she had such strong LMR. I told her that we were going somewhere private to listen to music, but suddenly finding herself in the lobby of a love hotel was like a splash of cold water to her face. No plausible denial at all.

[TheChef]

And at the end of the day, it's just a date. Hit her up again for another one. PM me if you need any tips on planning the date. Hope it goes well!

[Carlos100]

She just messaged me and told me she isn't available for the 30th. "Hi. It became inconvenient on the night of 30th. I'm sorry." (She isn't a native English speaker) What should I text in response?

[eradicator]

why are you scheduling dates 3 weeks in advance?

[Carlos100]

(05-12-2014 05:40 PM)eradicator Wrote:  

why are you scheduling dates 3 weeks in advance?

I'm new at game. Since I'm married and only go out a couple of times each month, I try to lock in the plan as far in advance as possible. I was also trying to ride off the good emotion from the first date. I understand that it's probably more likely if I hit her up with just a few days notice.

[Cheetah]

Does she live by herself? If she does, it's not possible for you to just 'happen to be in the area' and visit her 'for a few minutes'? If you don't call or text her in advance (I don't know if that is advisable in your case), she might never find out that you tried to visit her shouldn't she be at home.

[Carlos100]

(05-14-2014 01:03 PM)Cheetah Wrote:  

Does she live by herself? If she does, it's not possible for you to just 'happen to be in the area' and visit her 'for a few minutes'? If you don't call or text her in advance (I don't know if that is advisable in your case), she might never find out that you tried to visit her shouldn't she be at home.

People rarely drop in on each other unannounced in Japan. I don't know where she lives exactly anyway. I will just wait awhile (a few weeks or so) and the next time I'm going out I will message her a few days in advance and see if she would like to join me. I'm already working on lining up someone else for the day her and I were supposed to go out. It's good that she gave me a couple of weeks notice instead of flaking at the last minute.

[Carlos100]

A mutual friend of this girl told me recently that she thought I was too aggressive on the date by taking her to the love hotel and that's the reason she flaked on the second date. I've been thinking it over and I still think I did the right thing on the first date because:

1. Because of my LTR situation, I don't need her as a woman friend. She's either DTF with me or I find something else to do with my time.
2. By being clear in my intentions, I avoid being friend-zoned, especially since we are connected through a social group, which could lead to that happening.

Could it have been more effective if I had waited until the 2nd or 3rd date to move her towards the hotel room? Perhaps, but with the limited time I have to go out because of family responsibilities I don't have time for courtships like that.