[Savonarola]

(03-04-2019 03:01 PM)jeffreyjerpp Wrote:  

(03-02-2019 07:31 AM)flyinghorse Wrote:  

Ronaldo is not on peds - jesus christ, man.

Those guys are tested all the time.

I hope you're not serious.

EVERY PRO ATHLETE USES PEDS.

Their leagues know it, too, and purposely craft the testing policies so they never catch anyone. Once a season, they burn some minor player to give the appearance of serious testing.

Since Lance Armstrong got burned, every major sport realizes that exposing the amount of PED use would be horrible for their image, so they simply make it impossible to get caught. The only exception appears to be the UFC, which currently has an anti-doping program run by the guy who brought down Armstrong.

Cycling is used as a scapegoat sport, for sure.
Some individual sports that are less strategic and more purely physical (cycling, track n field) benefit much more from PEDS.
Other team sports that are more strategic and less purely physical (soccer, basketball) benefit much less from PEDS.

The more strategic team sports test for them less often.
Still, I am suspicious of the fact that Ibrahamovich has scored MORE goals after the age of 30 than he did before the age of 30.

[rudebwoy]

I suggest you educate yourself a bit before making assumptions. Do a google search on Doping at the Olympics and doping in sports.

As you will see these scandals cover many sports and it isn't just about building muscles.

Look how many times team USA track athletes got caught cheating, yet quite a few of their athletes still continued competing.

Sports is big business and money exceeds everything else.

[zatara]

HGH use is huge in professional sports because its so hard to test for.

Off-season steroid cycles are huge in professional sports because its so easy to avoid testing.

Early career steroid cycles are huge in professional sports are huge because you're so much less likely to be tested at that point in your career, and putting on (and maintaining) that extra muscle mass is an absolutely massive advantage when under 22 to get you up into the big leagues.

I know people who've done all 3 of the above personally, and none of the guys were at elite level - just very low level professionals. Any sport with sufficient money, or fame, involved has all 3 of the above (and probably a shitload more I'm not aware of) in spades. Team sports or individuals, it doesn't matter. The more money the more likely the players are on more expensive/exotic/hard to test for drug regimes. At the top .01%, with millions of dollars on the line, every single extra ounce of muscle strength, or improved muscle/injury recovery, counts.

[wrecker132]

(03-02-2019 07:31 AM)flyinghorse Wrote:  

Ronaldo is not on peds - jesus christ, man.

Those guys are tested all the time.

LOL - not true. At Real Madrid, they often skirted the tests and were notified of the doping protocols before they would happen

PED usage is RAMPANT in soccer, and is really one of the biggest issues. Spain's (and Barca's_ decade of dominance is often thought to have be helped by PED usage as well. It's no coincidence that after when in 2013 a Spanish doctor made a testimony on Spanish soccer, the dominance of Spanish teams came soon to an end.

Spain is all sports, but definitely in soccer and cycling has a huge history of pe usage

[No More Mr. Soy Boy]

(03-04-2019 07:11 PM)wrecker132 Wrote:  

(03-02-2019 07:31 AM)flyinghorse Wrote:  

Ronaldo is not on peds - jesus christ, man.

Those guys are tested all the time.

LOL - not true. At Real Madrid, they often skirted the tests and were notified of the doping protocols before they would happen

PED usage is RAMPANT in soccer, and is really one of the biggest issues. Spain's (and Barca's_ decade of dominance is often thought to have be helped by PED usage as well. It's no coincidence that after when in 2013 a Spanish doctor made a testimony on Spanish soccer, the dominance of Spanish teams came soon to an end.

Spain is all sports, but definitely in soccer and cycling has a huge history of pe usage

I think we need some sources for claims like these.

[Anchor Man]

(03-04-2019 04:55 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

I suggest you educate yourself a bit before making assumptions. Do a google search on Doping at the Olympics and doping in sports.

As you will see these scandals cover many sports and it isn't just about building muscles.

Look how many times team USA track athletes got caught cheating, yet quite a few of their athletes still continued competing.

Sports is big business and money exceeds everything else.

But with all those scandals and advancements in testing, CR7 was never caught. In addition, he is not so muscular. With those two points in mind, the judgement should lean towards he is natural.

[rudebwoy]

Why would they need to test him? He is a mega star an arguably the biggest name in world football.
Wasn't he accused of some tax fraud? Or was that Messi, what happened to that? Did any of them do time in prison!
We aren't talking about the Chinese swim team that swept all the swimming medals in one Olympics.

Again, he isn't natural. For anyone that has used gear or been in a gym long enough you would know that.

Why don't you tell us about your experience?

Do you even lift?

[No More Mr. Soy Boy]

(03-04-2019 08:48 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Why would they need to test him? He is a mega star an arguably the biggest name in world football.
Wasn't he accused of some tax fraud? Or was that Messi, what happened to that? Did any of them do time in prison!
We aren't talking about the Chinese swim team that swept all the swimming medals in one Olympics.

Again, he isn't natural. For anyone that has used gear or been in a gym long enough you would know that.

Why don't you tell us about your experience?

Do you even lift?

I've have several friends that play on a professional level and have been involved before myself. And I've lifted for several years, I don't think anyone here can claim as we know the whole truth without having been inside their training ground.

And sure, I know the world of sports is a hell of a lot more corrupt and grey than people think. For example, I had it confirmed after my career that agents for players in the same team as me were paying coaches to have their players play a lot. That's just one of many stories.
So nowadays I'm not all naive to what is going on.

But when it comes to players in Champions League teams and in the bigger leagues nowadays, it just happens to be so that they're regularly forced to do tests. And if it was going on a large scale I assume we would have heard more about it when players who left the bigger clubs to play for another lower level team.
After all these years I think we would have seen at least a couple of whistleblowers in the same way that Lance Armstrong was accused for a very long time until he finally had so many proofs against him that he had to admit.

Is his body achievable without drugs? Of course, it is, it's not even impressive for someone who has lifted a few years. If someone thinks it's not achievable without using drugs, why do you even bother going to the gym in the first place? Don't you have bigger hopes than that?

Then what is the other evidence for it besides that Lionel Messi, Ronaldo and others are very good players?

[Anchor Man]

(03-04-2019 08:48 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Why would they need to test him? He is a mega star an arguably the biggest name in world football.
Wasn't he accused of some tax fraud? Or was that Messi, what happened to that? Did any of them do time in prison!
We aren't talking about the Chinese swim team that swept all the swimming medals in one Olympics.

Again, he isn't natural. For anyone that has used gear or been in a gym long enough you would know that.

Why don't you tell us about your experience?

Do you even lift?

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot...49401.html

They test him repeatedly .

DO you even know what is soccer ? Do you even who is CR7?
Or did you even read the news ?
Conspiracy theory has reached another level in this forum

[realologist]

PEDs aren't just steroids to get jacked either. There's some that act on all parts mental and physical that impact the game. Some help with recovery for playing 90 minutes games once a week damn near all year long. Some mimic amphetamines for focus because that many games it'll be hard to stay engaged that long. At this point I'm sure most top athletes are using more products to extend the length of their athleticism and careers.

Look at Tom Brady. QB's never used to be able to throw as well into their 40s before. Look at LeBron. He's been in the NBA something like 15+ years and although he's showing wear and tear the fact that he plays so many games each year is amazing. Anybody that's played sports at a decently high level knows that if you play that much over and over and over you are going to have more injuries and get more beat up then them unless you are on something. Shit I knew dudes on something in highschool. People need to get off their moral high horse and understand that this shit happens in sports so it finally can be put out into the open.

Now back on the original point. 99.99% of men aren't going to reach diminishing returns for attractiveness and will gain something from lifting instead.

[rudebwoy]

Like you said, sports is more corrupt than most of know. Champions league or any other league being no exception.

So how did you find working out helped you or did it hinder you like some are saying?

@anchor man - I know more about football than you, having played at a high level in England. Thank you very much.

[Anchor Man]

@ rudebwoy
You’re welcome .

[JakckieDanger437]

Oh, definitely. I'd say once you get to about 8-10% bodyfat, and are pretty jacked, there's definitely a point of diminishing returns.

[rudebwoy]

Are you speaking from experience or making an assumption out of thin air?

Bodyfat that low is hard to achieve.

Where I live I would make a wild guess that the percentage of dudes with flat stomachs or nice abs is like 20%. As I look at my coworkers I'm thinking that number would be way too high.,

[Sidney Crosby]

^ We all know he is just making an assumption.

People either don't want to put in the work, have other priorities or are in soy based denial.

[Vet-Boy]

There is, but very few people ever actually reach it w/o PEDs

EDIT: Didnt realise Realogist already posted about this

[rudebwoy]

@Sidney Crosby, yes that is a given. Lol

[flyinghorse]

(03-05-2019 03:20 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Are you speaking from experience or making an assumption out of thin air?

Bodyfat that low is hard to achieve.

Where I live I would make a wild guess that the percentage of dudes with flat stomachs or nice abs is like 20%. As I look at my coworkers I'm thinking that number would be way too high.,

Way less have abs - probably more like 2% of the population.

Don't forget that over 60% of the population are overweight.

[rudebwoy]

@flyinghorse - exactly, so a half decent body puts you ahead of most guys with their dad bods.
So imagine If you had a semblance of game, then you're golden.

Which guy doesn't like compliments from girls, or girls touching you. Especially if they are nice looking.

Again, for the naysayers I'm not trying to prove anything but give advice. Having a good body is the best return of investment.

Sure girls may fantasize about football players and movie stars, but they sure as hell aren't dating men that resemble them.

[Moma]

I used to be like you naysayers, I used to believe what lizards say. They would scorn at built bodies and say crazy stuff like..ooh I bet he spends all day looking in the mirror..I don't want a man that needs more metime than I do.
However, this is what you lot need to really bear in mind. The nightclub isn't the only place to meet a lizard. Her poosy gets wet everywhere she takes it. She could see you in the bank and think damn I wanna fcuk him!
All you would need in that situation is a little game to nudge her over the edge since she's already triggered. In that sense she is already making excuses or looking at you extra long.
All you need to do is make arrangements to a quiet place and pound her out. It IS that easy.

Working out won't hurt your game. In the same light, having more money won't hurt your game nor will having a nicer wardrobe. To discount that is ludicrous.
Some of you say "I see a big guy in the club and he gets no lizards or he gets ugly ones" but I can say the same for every characteristic known to man. I've seen tall guys (6'9) with mediocre lizards. I've seen wealthy guys (British millionaires) with basic lizards, I've seen street goons with mediocre lizards. No advocate of working out here said that building up your body means you can forego any form of game and just stand in the corner, mute while flexing your biceps and bang hordes of whores per year. To keep countering with that statement, I could bet my bottom dollar that you've never been built before.

[ThrustMaster]

It seems like I've read this thread or ones like it a thousand times.

TLDR; version: lift heavy shit, eat a balanced diet without excess caloric intake for your workload. Thats it.

As someone who put on 40+ lbs of lean mass starting in his late 30's and has seen the effects that it has had on every aspect of my own life I can tell you this: it's night and day. I stand 5'9" at ~198lbs @10% bf. It took me 10+ years of lifting to get here and frankly its the best thing I've ever done in my life. Here's a short list:

1. Chicks notice you - PERIOD.
2. Chicks tell you how amazing and hard your body is - REPEATEDLY, before, during and after sex. if you're not a troglodyte simply put big arms, vascularity and abs WILL GET YOU LAID, and not by just gym bunnies or tapped out broads, it's powerful when that slightly sheltered, girl next door, thoughtful chick touches you for the first time and says "God I feel like a slut, but fuck your arms/thighs/abs are so hot" and go off to explain that they never thought they'd react this way - it's fun when they're sentient enough to have the evo-psych discussion about it.
3. Men offer you more respect, you're viewed as disciplined.
4. #3 in business is a way to more power and wealth.
5. You're assumed to be a leader of men, even if you're not - its yours to fuck up.
6. People think you've always been this way.
7. Suddenly guys don't challenge you, socially the much bigger dude makes the calculation "I might win but this MFer is gunna fuck me the fuck up on the way down, I'll pick an easier fight"
8. Your confidence goes through the roof.
9. You carry yourself differently - hell you walk differently.
10. all of the above becomes a self-powered virtuous cycle.
11. you're healthier all around - deals with all types of issues related to health.
12. you want sex non-stop, it turns you into a predator and women eat that up like bonbons.

Simply put, you can't go wrong. Why are we having this discussion? Because it's "haaaaaaaard?" Just go lift something heavy, repeatedly for 6 months at any age - if you're a youngster you'll see results like overnight if you're and old f*k like me it'll take longer, bottom line - do it for you: the rest will follow. If you've not done it you simply cannot talk about it, it's surreal to experience the change frankly.

My $.02

[Anchor Man]

Guys,
I think the whole point of the thread was that “ is there a point beyond it is not worth to add more muscle ?”
I don’t think anyone should argue that muscles are important .
Question was how much muscles are enough .

For me, I like my body I am more of lean and altheltic look . I am happy with this

[rudebwoy]

Thrustmaster well said, end of story.

Other dudes give you mad respect and simply don't fcuk with you.

There shouldn't be a discussion but it seems some guys don't want to hear the truth.

[Savonarola]

(03-06-2019 09:12 AM)ThrustMaster Wrote:  

As someone who put on 40+ lbs of lean mass starting in his late 30's and has seen the effects that it has had on every aspect of my own life I can tell you this: it's night and day. I stand 5'9" at ~198lbs @10% bf. It took me 10+ years of lifting to get here and frankly its the best thing I've ever done in my life.

It took you 10 years to add 40 pounds of muscle?
It took me 2 years to add 20 pounds of muscle.

Regardless, all your other points are spot on. TBH though I wouldn't want more gains just because agility and athleticism will disappear. I enjoy sprinting, soccer, beach volleyball, and other sports.

[Kieran]

It's perfectly normal to put on that much in the first few years, but then gains start slowing down drastically after that.