[soup]

It's clear to all of us that white knights are really terrible people. They are dishonest in their intentions, and represent the weakest of men.

Let's use this thread to brainstorm ways to try to eradicate white knighting.

Can these guys be shamed into changing their behavior? What can we do to curb this problem?

[birdrussell]

feed their ass a red pill. you could try shame but the thing is they get a lot of positive reenforcement from the fatties they are orbiting. I.e. "awww you're so sweet." "I love you, you're my best friend." "I wish I could find a guy just like you." They live for that shit because it's the closest to ass they're ever going to get. Take a white night under your wing and show the poor fool. I don't think any of us are out right cruel to women who don't have it coming. IDK I don't think there's a single solution to this elusive problem but there's a start.

[Beyond Borders]

If you really want to have any success at changing minds, I think it'd be a good idea to stop simplifying the situation and labeling any man who defends a woman as a white knight who is doing it because he wants something from her. Even in the scenarios where she doesn't deserve help, this is often not the case - being misguided or mistaken doesn't make someone immoral or weak.

Many men throw down for a woman because they see it as an honorable thing to do. It's what they were taught growing up and they haven't taken the time to question the idea. In their own minds, they're not being weak or dishonest - in their minds, you are.

It's important to remember that you won't shame anyone into changing their beliefs and behavior. People don't respond to criticism - it only puts them on the defensive. By trying to shame them, oversimplifying what they're doing, calling them terrible people and dishonest, and by calling them weak, you put them on the spot and ensure they'll never listen to a word you say (read Dale Carnegie). You also make it clear that you haven't sought to understand the intentions of the people you want to change.

Thus you've lost the so-called battled before you've even begun.

You don't have to agree with them, but if you really ever want to change someone's mind, I suggest taking a deeper look into how their mind works and the psychology (and sociology) behind their belief systems. While there are opportunistic men in the world, most men jump to defend women because they believe they're doing a moral thing and standing up for what is right. Many white knights are, in fact, the strongest and toughest of men rather than the weakest. Many men would and do put their ass on the line against all odds to defend women - further showing that they're not weak.

This idea of defending women being highly honorable is also why men will so often do things that are morally questionable - things they wouldn't normally think was ethical - to a man who hits a woman. For example, 10 men jumping on one guy without a thought. Stomping his head while he's on the ground. They take these extremes because they've been taught since birth that physically harming a female is the worst thing you can do, and that lifelong conditioning completely overrides their lesser principles.

In fact, doing obscenely violent things to someone who breaks our most highly-valued moral codes is common to our culture (and maybe most cultures). Just watch a movie to see how much we love to hurt the bad guys in ways we normally wouldn't condone. It's plain to see that "white knights" are responding to what they see as a moral injustice (even the label we give them suggests it).

Like it or not, that's the case.

The "white knight" label is an extreme generalization and only divides the male gender even further. Anyone who wanted to make any serious ground in this area would have to be intellectually honest about what they're confronting.

[soup]

They are coming from a mindset that says that so long as a girl has vagina, she is sacred.

That is whack.

There are so many girls who put themselves out there as sluts and like to toy with men and play power games. Guys who stand up for these women should be ashamed of themselves.

[Snowplow]

Hypothetically, say you go to game a girl and along comes her knight. Now you're still in on the hunt, but why not disarm him, buy him a beer, get in his head, and feed him some red pill that he can relate to his problems? In the meantime while he may be pondering his past actions with your prey/past girls, you move in for the kill with her.

[cardguy]

To quote Gandhi.

"Be the change you want to see in the world."

[soup]

(12-18-2013 01:30 PM)MGTOW MATT Wrote:  

Hypothetically, say you go to game a girl and along comes her knight. Now you're still in on the hunt, but why not disarm him, buy him a beer, get in his head, and feed him some red pill that he can relate to his problems? In the meantime while he may be pondering his past actions with your prey/past girls, you move in for the kill with her.

I like this but I don't like rewarding any bad behavior from anyone.

[vinman]

Our very own GITMO. Roosh can look for the sites in Eastern Europe. They'll be forced to watch The Mack, and American Pimp. The Black Phillip Show will be piped into their cells 24 hours a day. And for graduation they must watch a guy kiss a fattie on the lips. We will monitor their physical reactions with sensors attached to their body.

[Edmund Dantes]

I was thinking about the same thing. The only way to change them is to recondition them. Think about how many of us were white knights and blue-pill before we took the red-pill. Something painful and/or life-altering (false rape accusation, divorce, bad break-up, involuntary celibacy, etc.) happened and it forced us to reevaluate our beliefs and seek another answer.

Psychology is the way to go. Personally, I think the manosphere needs propaganda aimed at blue-pillers. What I'm afraid of is the manosphere utilizing such a dangerous weapon against its own. Feminists became feminazis and I refuse to see the manosphere go the same way.

[soup]

(12-18-2013 01:45 PM)Edmund Dantes Wrote:  

I was thinking about the same thing. The only way to change them is to recondition them. Think about how many of us were white knights and blue-pill before we took the red-pill. Something painful and/or life-altering (false rape accusation, divorce, bad break-up, involuntary celibacy, etc.) happened and it forced us to reevaluate our beliefs and seek another answer.

Psychology is the way to go. Personally, I think the manosphere needs propaganda aimed at blue-pillers. What I'm afraid of is the manosphere utilizing such a dangerous weapon against its own. Feminists became feminazis and I refuse to see the manosphere go the same way.

Maybe if we keep pointing out how horrible so many women can be, then they'll get the point, but I doubt it.

It's like trying to convince a religious person that god doesn't exist. Whiteknights are so stuck in there ways it seems.

I just wish there was a way to create a meme or something that show how uncool it is to stand up for women who are sluts etc., but even showing them how bad women can be doesn't always get them to give it up.

[Snowplow]

Soup I can see what you are getting at, but that's what happened to me. I didn't realize it at the time but guy came up, I was trying to defend my "bff's", dude pulled me aside and dropped the pill. Now he never said red pill, manosphere or anything like that, but it got me thinking about everything and he left with her. If it wasn't for him (and other things) mainly, I would've never found this or ROK. I've done it without the gaming, seeing some pussified dork getting beers, give him info to ponder and watch a change.

[soup]

(12-18-2013 01:51 PM)MGTOW MATT Wrote:  

Soup I can see what you are getting at, but that's what happened to me. I didn't realize it at the time but guy came up, I was trying to defend my "bff's", dude pulled me aside and dropped the pill. Now he never said red pill, manosphere or anything like that, but it got me thinking about everything and he left with her. If it wasn't for him (and other things) mainly, I would've never found this or ROK. I've done it without the gaming, seeing some pussified dork getting beers, give him info to ponder and watch a change.

What exactly did he say? Can you give a little more detail?

[Edmund Dantes]

(12-18-2013 01:48 PM)soup Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 01:45 PM)Edmund Dantes Wrote:  

I was thinking about the same thing. The only way to change them is to recondition them. Think about how many of us were white knights and blue-pill before we took the red-pill. Something painful and/or life-altering (false rape accusation, divorce, bad break-up, involuntary celibacy, etc.) happened and it forced us to reevaluate our beliefs and seek another answer.

Psychology is the way to go. Personally, I think the manosphere needs propaganda aimed at blue-pillers. What I'm afraid of is the manosphere utilizing such a dangerous weapon against its own. Feminists became feminazis and I refuse to see the manosphere go the same way.

Maybe if we keep pointing out how horrible so many women can be, then they'll get the point, but I doubt it.

It's like trying to convince a religious person that god doesn't exist. Whiteknights are so stuck in there ways it seems.

I just wish there was a way to create a meme or something that show how uncool it is to stand up for women who are sluts etc., but even showing them how bad women can be doesn't always get them to give it up.

You're right. They're so set in their ways and they believe they're on the right side. I have to keep pondering this. Will bookmark for later.

[Tuthmosis]

I've written elsewhere in the forum that the only solution is brutal, excessive violence in every case, no exceptions. Being a white knight isn't risky right now, which is why guys feel comfortable doing it. We need to make it a very dangerous proposition. I'm talking cartel-level shit, in the most ideal situation, but a merciless beatdown would suffice.

[Snowplow]

He asked me basics to disarm me, name, type of work, schools, we talked a bit, then he asked how long I was chasing her. I tried to play it off that I wasn't and we are just friends. But you know the infamous line from When Harry Met Sally about how men and women can't be friends? Yeah, then he explained a bit on how I was wasting energy and potential to be nothing more than the "emotional crutch, a coat hanger, and the bank." (I can never forget those words). He told me girls don't like when you follow them, they like to follow. While I sat quietly and thought about what he said, she followed him right out of the bar.

I believe the key to it all hitting me was his professionalism and how nonchalant he was about it. Cool, calm, and collected. He was some random alpha dude who was kind enough to plant the bomb, get the girl, and make a smooth exit. Motherfuckin secret agent man!

[SheriffBart]

I would guess the majority of men on this forum were white knights when they were younger. We all know it is a horrible experience. The truth of the Red Pill is everywhere. Some men, when confronted with the idea that they've lived a lie their whole lives, just double down on that lie. There's nothing that can be done for them. It's a personal issue relating to their own masculinity. They either have the desire and courage or they don't.

[MrXY]

(12-18-2013 02:12 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

I've written elsewhere in the forum that the only solution is brutal, excessive violence in every case, no exceptions. Being a white knight isn't risky right now, which is why guys feel comfortable doing it. We need to make it a very dangerous proposition. I'm talking cartel-level shit, in the most ideal situation, but a merciless beatdown would suffice.

You mean like this?

Or like this?

[Flavius Aetius]

The real white knight solution: life experience. Getting married to their reformed slut, divorced, financially raped, loss of their children in family court, and perpetual alimony.

One they have experienced this tragedy--they are very receptive to red pill information.

Other than that, I have had no success with white knights. Most will admit the system is screwed against men (marriage, etc), but when it comes to time to "settle down" they are more than willing to fall into the trap because "this time is different" or "this girl is special."

"Smart people learn from their own mistakes. However, wise people learn from other people's mistakes."-----try to be the latter.

[Quintus Curtius]

Like any social behavior, it is a product of what is perceived to be advantageous.

Men do it because they (1) have never seen any alternative; (2) have a fear of retaliation if they don't toe the politically correct line; (3) think it will help them get laid.

Until this cost/benefit equation changes, they will keep doing it. It will be harder to stop than other types of social behaviors. Why? Because:

1. Most men lack the discipline and courage to stand up to women and existing social norms
2. Most men are lacking in fortitude anyway
3. The male desire to reproduce is so strong that any behavior that is perceived to run counter to that goal will be rejected by most men. Embracing red pill behavior involves un-learning a whole paradigm that most guys have been brought up to believe.

Although the obstacles are formidable, I do have a little bit of hope that some progress can be made. But it really would take a revolutionary change in society for things to re-balance properly. The US would need to undergo some big disaster....which I am not ruling out.

QC

[Peregrine]

Seconding what Beyond Borders said. The most common motive imputed to white knights is "he's trying to get laid". But some white knights are motivated by antiquated notions of chivalry. In their mind, they are being altruistic and on the side of angels. Beatings aren't going to solve that (and you're assuming that all white knights are weak and easily whupped). Psychology and the Socratic method are far more effective.

[la_mode]

Don't even address them. Same way I believe fat feminists should be dealt with.

[samsamsam]

(12-18-2013 02:18 PM)MGTOW MATT Wrote:  

He asked me basics to disarm me, name, type of work, schools, we talked a bit, then he asked how long I was chasing her. I tried to play it off that I wasn't and we are just friends. But you know the infamous line from When Harry Met Sally about how men and women can't be friends? Yeah, then he explained a bit on how I was wasting energy and potential to be nothing more than the "emotional crutch, a coat hanger, and the bank." (I can never forget those words). He told me girls don't like when you follow them, they like to follow. While I sat quietly and thought about what he said, she followed him right out of the bar.

I believe the key to it all hitting me was his professionalism and how nonchalant he was about it. Cool, calm, and collected. He was some random alpha dude who was kind enough to plant the bomb, get the girl, and make a smooth exit. Motherfuckin secret agent man!

God that must have been quite a visual scene. Like in a movie - slow motion and shit. Thanks for sharing.

[dads]

I don't think that there is any way to mass feed these guys the red pill, because so much of their actions are done to save face with women. I think the only way is if you're someone that is a red pillar, and you see one of these guys, try to help them if they look like they need it. I think most guys were like me, where for a majority of my life, I was teetering on the edge of red pill, but I didn't know exactly what that meant.

[Screwston]

Good luck trying to change 99% of American guys. At this point, I think you'd have to brainwash them like A Clockwork Orange.

[Basil Ransom]

Cut them out of your life. You are never going to sway white knights, or feminists or fat fucks - if they ever change it will be at their own hands and not yours. For every one that you would change, you'll have squandered your efforts on another dozen.

Build a life that's attractive, and don't let these men into it. Don't hire them, don't play poker with them, don't go to lunch with them... It shouldn't be hard because these dudes are usually lameas shit anyway.

I tried to get a mansion together with some forum members but it didn't quite get off the ground. But one of the appealing things about it was that no matter what was happening I knew all the guys involved were ready to toss a chick out on her ass and would not think twice about it - they were all guys impervious to the white knighting instinct. If we had a party and some chick complains to me that my roommate that i know is cool is being "creepy" and I'd just laugh her in face. She'd cower away with a punctured ego as soon as she'd see there was no burly bouncer to enforce her whims and toss some harmless dude out. She'd have to beat it or shut up.

If more men built these islands of sanity and justice, chicks and white knights would stay on their toes.

"I would guess the majority of men on this forum were white knights when they were younger. "

It's not polite to project your personal history of faggotry onto others, Mr. Zero Rep.