[AnonymousBosch]

^^

It all looks good to me. I'm not biased one way or another. Growing my own vegetables means a surplus of ones at certain times of the year, (I'm swimming in Kale at the moment), and veggie meals are a great way to use them, and a good way to save money if you're short. Learn to cook well enough, and anything tastes great.

[Mr. Calicoat]

(12-11-2013 06:58 PM)Suits Wrote:  

What type of man says no to something this beautiful?







Or you could eat this:

I'll go with the last 4 dishes you linked, they look a lot more delicious and a lot more healthy than the first 4 dishes you linked.

[Aliblahba]

Canucks don't play when it comes to eating meat.


   

Respect!

[deathtofatties]

You know, becoming a vegan wasn't an easy choice. I do love the taste of a nice steak...

But after looking at research, talking to people, and personal experiences, It really seems that meats is overall unhealthy. I would love for someone to prove me wrong. I do want to eat steak.

I need solid, well researched proof that meat isn't unhealthy, and that a vegan diet is unhealthy. And believe me, I'd love to go back to meat.

[BIGINJAPAN]

(12-11-2013 07:18 PM)deathtofatties Wrote:  

You know, becoming a vegan wasn't an easy choice. I do love the taste of a nice steak...

But after looking at research, talking to people, and personal experiences, It really seems that meats is overall unhealthy. I would love for someone to prove me wrong. I do want to eat steak.

I need solid, well researched proof that meat isn't unhealthy, and that a vegan diet is unhealthy. And believe me, I'd love to go back to meat.

Go to http://www.bulletproofexec.com

Find the grass fed vs corn fed animals studies... They will prove beyond a doubt that the meat is safe

http://www.bulletproofexec.com/grass-fed-meat-part-1/

one to get you started

[Veloce]

(12-11-2013 07:18 PM)deathtofatties Wrote:  

You know, becoming a vegan wasn't an easy choice. I do love the taste of a nice steak...

But after looking at research, talking to people, and personal experiences, It really seems that meats is overall unhealthy. I would love for someone to prove me wrong. I do want to eat steak.

I need solid, well researched proof that meat isn't unhealthy, and that a vegan diet is unhealthy. And believe me, I'd love to go back to meat.

No-one will be able to prove that to you.

If we believed all of the studies that come out of the medical establishment, we'd all have cancer and be on our deathbeds.

Choline in Eggs? Give me a break.

I don't know about you, but 100% of all the doctors I've had all look like shit. These are not the people I take health advice from. Data only takes you so far, at some point you have to adopt a diet and lifestyle that makes you feel good.

Health is a matter of genetics, lifestyle/exercise, and diet. To me, diet is the least important, as crazy at that sounds. Diet only becomes such a crucial element if your genetics or lifestyle/exercise suck.

I'm going to use my grandparents as an example. They all lived past 90, and one of them is still going completely healthy at 101. Wanna talk about eggs? He eats 2 eggs every day. 101 years old. He still exercises, but very limited. Yeah he's got some ailments, his legs are going out, but he's 100% there mentally and his bloodwork looks beautiful across the board. My other grandpa that died recently treated his body like shit and he made it to 96. Chain smoker, ate tons of meat and bacon. Pretty active guy though. Genetics and lifestyle. You think any of my grandparents even know what choline is or give a shit?

Do yourself a favor: anytime you see a medical article that begins with: "Latest study shows that x leads to y" just throw it in the trash. You're being trolled on a massive level.

Noone can prove to you that vegan is healthy or unhealthy. It's all propaganda in some form, and it's up to you to listen to your body and adjust your habits accordingly.

To me, veganism is gay for two reasons:
1) Any guy that lifts or does resistance training needs a higher amount of calories and protein. The best source of calories and protein is animal flesh, in other way or another. If a guy doesn't eat animal products, I'm willing to bet he doesn't do any resistance training, and therefor not fulfilling his red blooded masculine duty to maximize his physical strength. Gay.

2) I've had to deal with more vegans than I'd care to. They go around to restaurants assuming that every single kitchen is happy to accommodate their ridiculous needs. You know what makes vegetables taste good? Butter. Pancetta. Bacon. Chicken fat. No self-respecting chef would ever cook without these things. As diners, vegans are easily the whiniest, most high-maintenance, entitled, smug, self-satisfied, preachy little twerps that exist, and on more than one occasion I've happily added a ladle of chicken stock to their food just to spite them. Eating in restaurants is a privilege, not an entitlement, and no-one deserves special treatment.

[kbell]

What unbiased (not grain company sponsored study) proof is there that red meat is bad for you?

[AnonymousBosch]

(12-11-2013 08:32 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

I don't know about you, but 100% of all the doctors I've had all look like shit. These are not the people I take health advice from.

Gold.

Quote:

Do yourself a favor: anytime you see a medical article that begins with: "Latest study shows that x leads to y" just throw it in the trash. You're being trolled on a massive level.

Gold. The media thrives on junk science.

Quote:

Any guy that lifts or does resistance training needs a higher amount of calories and protein. The best source of calories and protein is animal flesh, in other way or another. If a guy doesn't eat animal products, I'm willing to bet he doesn't do any resistance training, and therefor not fulfilling his red blooded masculine duty to maximize his physical strength. Gay.

So, if I eat 100 grams of Top Broiled Steak for 24 grams of protein and 282 calories; or 100 grams of chicken for 25 grams of protein and 219 calories; then I'm heterosexual, but the 26 grams of protein and 353 calories I get out making Meatballs out of Lentils (assuming I don't also toss some nuts into the mix to up both even more), makes me all about the cock?

[Veloce]

I say gay as a general dismissive referring to wimpy or otherwise non-masculine behavior.

I'm largely compensating for decades of being blue-pill and falling into a lot of the shit beliefs that I rail against now.

I've done the vegetarian thing. I've taken several classes on nutrition and for a while I was obsessed with this stuff. I was up on all the latest studies and claims being made by mainstream as well as homeopathic medical science.

And as informed as I was, I wasn't healthy. I was out of shape, easily winded, all sorts of back and joint problems. I knew an encyclopedia's worth of nutrition and health but you'd never know it. I would construct meals solely based on progressive nutrition pseudo-science; making sure I was eating plenty of sea vegetables, legumes, creating complete amino acid chains, all that nonsense, supplemented with the latest fad "superfoods" like goji berries, maca, raw cacao, blah blah blah blah.

Now? I can sum it up in a few lines:

High protein, high calorie diet.
Lifting.
Green juice.
Optional: supplements

That's it. Just by following those four lines, I'm in the best shape of my life. I sleep better, the back pain is gone, no more sciatica, my blood pressure is perfect. I got a full physical done last year and there wasn't one single thing my doc could dock me on, yet he felt compelled to chide me for not doing any cardio, while he's slumped over in his $1000 office chair looking like a living corpse.

So when I say veganism and vegetarianism is gay, I'm saying it dismissively to all of it; the entire multi-billion dollar health obsession is gay. Making it complicated is gay. Reciting study after study on how animal products are harmful is gay. I love vegetables as the next guy, especially from a culinary perspective, but a diet that is 100% based on them is gay.

[Bushido]

(12-11-2013 09:55 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

So when I say veganism and vegetarianism is gay, I'm saying it dismissively to all of it; the entire multi-billion dollar health obsession is gay. Making it complicated is gay. Reciting study after study on how animal products are harmful is gay. I love vegetables as the next guy, especially from a culinary perspective, but a diet that is 100% based on them is gay.

Agreed. This extends into exercise/bodybuilding too.

It's the same health/exercise BS industry that feeds us ridiculous and often misleading information about workout programs. Everyone wants to follow the latest "new" programs to give you a six-pack. They research complicated exercises, use machines or read up on the "easiest" ways to get ripped. Many will pay a personal trainer who complicates things further. And surprise, surprise...in 12 months they are still exactly where they were before. Using a barbell for the compounds and sprinting for conditioning works. It has worked for decades. But no...people want to believe it is complicated. They are also too pussy to use a barbell. Let's be honest about this: 99% of the REAL reason people want to use dumbbells, acrobatic exercises or kettlebells for squats or deadlifts is because they are pussies.

Same goes for food.

Veganism is a cult that takes things to the extreme. It takes a bit of truth and than wildly distorts it into some kind of religion. For millenia, humans have been omnivores eating both meat and vegetables. To suggest that meat is bad for us is the same as suggesting that we shouldn't inhale oxygen. It's better to stop complicating shit and just enjoy the various foods you have in front of you. All in balance of course.

[Bushido]

(12-11-2013 11:44 AM)deathtofatties Wrote:  

Meat is dense in calories, but for most people it will also make them gain adipose (fatty tissue) which can raise estrogen levels.

Sounds like you need to read up on your Gary Taubes.

[Peregrine]

Apply one of Taleb's heuristics to this one: don't eat/drink what mankind has not been eating or drinking for thousands of years. Time is the great truth-diviner and bullshit-revealer. People have been eating meat for forever. On the other hand, vegetarianism has also been practiced since Ancient Greece. Veganism? First recorded instance was 1806.

Quote all the studies you want. I also have it on good authority from medical studies from as recent as 50 years that smoking is good for you. Studies show whatever you want them to.

[scorpion]

(12-11-2013 07:05 PM)Mr. Calicoat Wrote:  

Eskimos are an exception to the rule really, they're not the ultimate proof that humans can (or are meant to be) eat tons of meat without getting health problems.

While it's true that diary products, grain and corn are a lot worse for us than meat, and while it's true that meat in small amounts is very healthy, especially if you work-out, eating lots of meat is by no means healthy, especially not red meat, which is the worst kind of meat for us humans.

You can see that a high-fiber diet is much more important for human-beings who want to live healthy, while carbs on the other hand are better cut low. The idea that meat is the best source of food for muscle-growth is quite frankly, a myth. High-fiber products such as broccoli, berries and spinach is what you need for muscle gain. Red meat can be beneficial too, but only if it's grass-fed and occasional. Everyone knows that eating lots of red meat is directly related to many of the health problems we often see in our modern-day western society. Just look at the diet of an average obese fat-ass cunt who suffers from type 2 diabetes and a high cholesterol. They're all primarily meat eaters, red meat eaters.

Now of course if you live an active life, you sleep enough and at regular times, work-out and eat enough high-fiber products, you're not gonna notice the negative effects of too much red meat. You're probably gonna feel just fine. But if you don't have such a lifestyle and you still eat too much (red) meat, then you can bet your sweet cheeks that sooner or later you're gonna notice the negative effects of it.

Being healthy is all about balance, and in this case, an occasional home-made hamburger 3-4 times a week is the correct balance to gain all the benefits of eating meat, while not suffering from the negatives.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You're just talking completely out your ass here. I mean, some of this shit is literally so wrong as to be laughable. It's embarrassing to read. Stop posting.

[Walderschmidt]

I'll just leave this here.

Wald

[Tytalus]

(12-11-2013 12:25 AM)Fitzgerald Wrote:  

Not one culture or society in the history of this planet developed veganism as a diet, and even vegetarian cultures consume dairy.

I'm going to highlight this one - worldwide veganism would cause huge famines. Not all land can be used for traditional agriculture - animals and animal derived foods (dairy) would still increase food output in the most optimized scenarios.

Veganism is unfortunately a profoundly, truly unrealistic and incredibly privileged first world diet.

I would venture that the OP didn't go out his way to find truly organic meat where the animal is grass fed.

Hunting is about as pure "organic" as you can get. I highly recommend it.

[AnonymousBosch]

(12-11-2013 09:55 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

And as informed as I was, I wasn't healthy. I was out of shape, easily winded, all sorts of back and joint problems. I knew an encyclopedia's worth of nutrition and health but you'd never know it. I would construct meals solely based on progressive nutrition pseudo-science; making sure I was eating plenty of sea vegetables, legumes, creating complete amino acid chains, all that nonsense, supplemented with the latest fad "superfoods" like goji berries, maca, raw cacao, blah blah blah blah.

Now? I can sum it up in a few lines:

High protein, high calorie diet.
Lifting.
Green juice.
Optional: supplements

What works for you doesn't work for me. Too much protein from meat and I get sluggish and have trouble with reflux and digestion. Limit the meat to moderate portions, up the vegetable protein, and I'm strong as hell with no reflux.

Paleo - if I restrict the carbs beyond a certain level then I simply can't shit.

Hell, I've even given up on the Apple Cider Vinegar - even diluted with water it irriates my vocal chords, which makes singing more difficult; gives me blue balls like I'm a teenager again; and massively-reduces my semen output, to the extent that a regular bang asked me if I was 'feeling ok'.

[Veloce]

(12-11-2013 11:45 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

(12-11-2013 09:55 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

And as informed as I was, I wasn't healthy. I was out of shape, easily winded, all sorts of back and joint problems. I knew an encyclopedia's worth of nutrition and health but you'd never know it. I would construct meals solely based on progressive nutrition pseudo-science; making sure I was eating plenty of sea vegetables, legumes, creating complete amino acid chains, all that nonsense, supplemented with the latest fad "superfoods" like goji berries, maca, raw cacao, blah blah blah blah.

Now? I can sum it up in a few lines:

High protein, high calorie diet.
Lifting.
Green juice.
Optional: supplements

What works for you doesn't work for me. Too much protein from meat and I get sluggish and have trouble with reflux and digestion. Limit the meat to moderate portions, up the vegetable protein, and I'm strong as hell with no reflux.

Paleo - if I restrict the carbs beyond a certain level then I simply can't shit.

Hell, I've even given up on the Apple Cider Vinegar - even diluted with water it irriates my vocal chords, which makes singing more difficult; gives me blue balls like I'm a teenager again; and massively-reduces my semen output, to the extent that a regular bang asked me if I was 'feeling ok'.

Yeah I get a few side effects from that diet I describe above. It's not what I plan on doing forever, but it's leaps and bounds better than what I was ever doing before. I want to gain another 10 lb and then I'm gonna clean things up a bit.

But to me the fundamentals remain the same. The optimal diet is animal protein plus non-grass (non grain) plants. I'm about 90/10 animal/plant right now, and once I hit my target weight I'm going to shoot for something more like 60/40 or even 50/50.

When you say restricting carbs, I'm assuming you mean grains? Vegetables have plenty of carbs. Have you tried green juicing? It's fantastic for cleaning you out.

[Teutatis]

I didn't know so many here were vegetarian/vegan, I must say I'm surprised. I'm also surprised that there are still people around that think it's healthy.

Sure, if you don't want to eat little animals because you feel bad for them or whatever, by all means, don't do it, it's your choice and right to do it, just don't try to shove down our throats that vegetarianism/veganism is healthier or morally superior.

[Saladin]

(12-11-2013 10:32 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Apply one of Taleb's heuristics to this one: don't eat/drink what mankind has not been eating or drinking for thousands of years. Time is the great truth-diviner and bullshit-revealer. People have been eating meat for forever. On the other hand, vegetarianism has also been practiced since Ancient Greece. Veganism? First recorded instance was 1806.

Quote all the studies you want. I also have it on good authority from medical studies from as recent as 50 years that smoking is good for you. Studies show whatever you want them to.

Exactly. Correlational studies don't mean shit.

There's so many issues with the argument that vegetarianism is better for you.

Show me studies that show eating grass fed beef is bad for you. Show me studies showing that wild fish is bad for you.

If you're a vegetarian good for you, but don't try to push that shit onto us meat eaters.

Not to mention how good meat tastes.

[deathtofatties]

(12-11-2013 09:55 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

I say gay as a general dismissive referring to wimpy or otherwise non-masculine behavior.

I'm largely compensating for decades of being blue-pill and falling into a lot of the shit beliefs that I rail against now.

I've done the vegetarian thing. I've taken several classes on nutrition and for a while I was obsessed with this stuff. I was up on all the latest studies and claims being made by mainstream as well as homeopathic medical science.

And as informed as I was, I wasn't healthy. I was out of shape, easily winded, all sorts of back and joint problems. I knew an encyclopedia's worth of nutrition and health but you'd never know it. I would construct meals solely based on progressive nutrition pseudo-science; making sure I was eating plenty of sea vegetables, legumes, creating complete amino acid chains, all that nonsense, supplemented with the latest fad "superfoods" like goji berries, maca, raw cacao, blah blah blah blah.

Now? I can sum it up in a few lines:

High protein, high calorie diet.
Lifting.
Green juice.
Optional: supplements

That's it. Just by following those four lines, I'm in the best shape of my life. I sleep better, the back pain is gone, no more sciatica, my blood pressure is perfect. I got a full physical done last year and there wasn't one single thing my doc could dock me on, yet he felt compelled to chide me for not doing any cardio, while he's slumped over in his $1000 office chair looking like a living corpse.

So when I say veganism and vegetarianism is gay, I'm saying it dismissively to all of it; the entire multi-billion dollar health obsession is gay. Making it complicated is gay. Reciting study after study on how animal products are harmful is gay. I love vegetables as the next guy, especially from a culinary perspective, but a diet that is 100% based on them is gay.

No offense. You seem like a cool guy, but IMHO you just did it wrong. Superfoods are a joke.

[soup]

Would you guys who eat meat ever eat human meat?

For example, if, in the future, we are able re-grow limbs easily.. what if your friend or family member gave you his arm for Christmas to eat because he could grow one back?

[Veloce]

(12-12-2013 02:14 AM)deathtofatties Wrote:  

No offense. You seem like a cool guy, but IMHO you just did it wrong. Superfoods are a joke.

None taken, we can discuss this like guys talking shit without getting butthurt.

But if all you can get from my post is "You did it wrong, superfoods are a joke", either you didn't read the post or I didn't go into enough detail.

I was vegetarian for a full year. I cook for a living and have been cooking since I was 5. Believe me when I say my vegetarian diet was probably leaps and bounds more nutritious and complete than 99.99% of vegetarians out there. It was fine for that particular phase of my life, but there's no way in hell I'd ever go back.

The only way I'd ever endorse or adopt a vegetarian or vegan diet is if I became a monk or started serious daily spiritual practice and spent most of my waking hours meditating. I will fully concede that for spiritual purposes, the lighter and more simple your diet, the better.

I don't see this happening anytime soon.

[LeBeau]

There's a multitude of reasons that eating meat is associated with masculinity, most of them have already been covered in this thread.

It's also something that's been ingrained in nature throughout history when it comes to hunting, killing and dominance.

But I feel like no matter how many studies or anecdotes each side drops on each other, these arguments will end up going in circles.

Debate is healthy, but by your responses it seems like you created this thread with confirmation bias.

You're not gonna find a reason that's "good enough" to meet your standards if you have already dismissed them from the beginning, and/or immediately look to refute each post from opposing viewpoints.

[AnonymousBosch]

(12-12-2013 12:04 AM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

When you say restricting carbs, I'm assuming you mean grains? Vegetables have plenty of carbs. Have you tried green juicing? It's fantastic for cleaning you out.

Yeah, any grains. Vegetables don't seem to be enough fibre alone for me, which is odd considering the amount I eat. I'm going to try Paleo again after christmas to get very cut for a movie role I'm doing and I'll try to figure out the constipation problem in the process. I'll admit it could be a problem unique to me. I'm sure there's enough information in the forum for me to read up on with some searching.

Isn't Green Juicing the latest fad? I eat kale or spinach, courgettes, brocolli, brussell sprouts, snow peas or beans and apples on a daily basis anyway. Cabbage now and then. I love the individual texture and tastes of vegetables, (particularly my homegrown seasonal ones), and know how to cook them to bring out or compliment their flavours, so I don't see the advantage of mashing up something I already enjoy into a sludge. I can see it appealing as a trend to female cubicle workers for the laziness of it. Sell me on the pluses of it from your viewpoint.

Are you using a blender? Traditional juicers would remove the fibre - soluble vegetable fibre lowers your blood pressure and cholesterol.

[MidniteSpecial]

Grapes and an apple first meal.

Oatmeal with maple syrup and some creame second meal.

Salad with raw vegetables third meal. And a fresh juice.

Grassfed rib eye cooked in grassfed butter fourth meal. Side of vegetables and some white rice.

6-8 tablespoons of Olive oil mixed in throughout the day.

Maybe a dark chocolate bar as snack somewhere in there. Typical day for me.

Yesterday was.

Two bananas for breakfast.

Some oatmeal few mins after.

Few bowls of chicken soup for lunch with hot sauce.

Half a chicken and Brussel sprouts for dinner.

Make half your diet raw fruits and vegetables and the rest steamed veg and clean meats. Can't go wrong. Midnitespecial approved.