[MikeCF]

(10-27-2013 04:03 PM)kbell Wrote:  

I appreciate that example of rational thinking/self defense lizard of oz. Its nicer to see more examples of that. That's something that looks like it could be very helpful to train myself to think like that.

Have you taken action yet and started performing the exercises?

Or are you going to be one of those people who jibber-jabbers all day and reads - all as a way to rationalize not taking action.

"Well, I gotta do my research"?

You've talked and bullshitted for how many years?

Gotten no results.

The time to take action was the day you posted this thread and received specific, actionable advice.

[Arg expert]

Advice (lot of people will doubt its value, but, heck, I'll still give it to you) to battle depression : You can travel to some 3d World country, see how people live and fight daily, then you come back to your wealthy country, and you are happy to have water and electricity and good food, and you start thinking positively. I mean, go to western Bolivia or Mali, then you'll come back happy to the US... for a while at least...

Or, another method, if you believe in reincarnation : to battle depression, you can die and be reborn as a Russian man. Or Serbian guy. You won't even understand the word Depression. (Also, you'll be surrounded by beautiful women from an early age, and come equipped with an indestructible liver. Good deal.)

[MikeCF]

It's been two weeks since you started this thread.

You have been posting a lot (I just checked your thread history).

Why are you not following up in this thread?

Do not start a thread asking for help and then do nothing. That is an insult to all of the men who offered you advice and help.

What specific acts have you taken since starting this thread?

What exercises have you performed to help you battle your depression?

Do you want help, or was this just a thread to give you attention?

If I sound direct, it is because I am being direct. You have been coddled by worthless therapists for far too long and it's time to be a man and take charge of your life.

We are here to help, but you must take action.

[kbell]

I have been doing my journal Mike. It has helped. I have almost finished moodgym as well. I have also been reading more of the book (pg 150). Not quite as fast I would like but I've been busy with other things right now. I am out of my depressed funk I was in and I have been through a rough work week. Rough as in, tough customers, angry employees and some stomach problems. So perhaps the nightly defenses of my mood is why I'm more resilient? I can't know for sure for awhile.

I do appreciate your concern Mike. I will probably have more questions later, but the book answers a lot for me quite well.

[The Lizard of Oz]

kbell, the stomach problems are very likely stress related.

I think you should consider taking a daily probiotic. It's probably the very best thing you can do for a gut beset by stress chemistry (other than eliminating the stress chemistry which you're working on but this takes time). Getting your gut flora right is a big deal.

[kbell]

I do take probiotics. Kvass drinks, yogurt and kefirs. I have a longer colon than usual and autoimmune related gut problems. So its a bit more involved. I actually have my 5th colonoscopy coming up in 2 weeks. Nervousness or caffeine (had to use it twice this week) tend to exacerbate it.

A few months ago I did have to take antibiotics for a some cold like sickness which lasted at least a month. Ever since then the gut has been off, where before it was gradually getting better.

[MikeCF]

^ This man speaks truth.

Read The Brain Diet.

The gut is a "second brain."

[MikeCF]

Thanks for the update, kbell.

You can overcome your depression. You sometimes need people to hold you accountable.

Keep up the good work.

[kbell]

One thing I forgot to mention which might have helped as well.

http://justgetflux.com/

This removes the blue in your computer monitor at night. This tends to make you want to fall asleep much faster than the standard blue glow of the screen. The body thinks blue light is day light and tends to amp you up due to it. With the orange light, I get sleepy reading the screen. Than when trying to sleep I don't have to toss and turn for say 30 minutes- hours. I used to use the program originally but removed it since I updated my computer. I now have it back on and its great.

[The Lizard of Oz]

Yes, f.lux is a superb utility and everyone should have it on every device. I was actually going to do a post about it soon.

kbell, it wasn't clear to me from your post -- do you take an actual probiotic in addition to drinking yogurt etc? If so, which one, if I may ask? There is one in particular which is much better than the others. It's expensive but you can almost certainly get a prescription for it.

[kbell]

kvass is a fermented vegetable drink which has to have probiotics. Probiotics are simply beneficial bacteria that helps balance out the overgrowth of more malevolent bacteria in the gut. Kefir itself has 10 strains of bacteria, which is more than the 3 in yogurt. The ones in pills are usually derived from similar fermentation. I believe the best type are refrigerated, but I like to eat them more than take a pill.

[The Lizard of Oz]

Yes, I understand all this. But it's about quantity as well as quality. Kvass and kefir have only a fraction of the number of bacteria contained in a serious probiotic.

Have you looked at VSL#3?

http://www.vsl3.com/

[Giovonny]

Kbell,

Have you ever tried marijuana or "magic mushrooms"???

Marijuana might help help calm your stomach.

"Magic mushrooms might help change your perspective.

[Acute Angle]

(11-07-2013 10:30 PM)kbell Wrote:  

kvass is a fermented vegetable drink which has to have probiotics. Probiotics are simply beneficial bacteria that helps balance out the overgrowth of more malevolent bacteria in the gut. Kefir itself has 10 strains of bacteria, which is more than the 3 in yogurt. The ones in pills are usually derived from similar fermentation. I believe the best type are refrigerated, but I like to eat them more than take a pill.

The best prebiotic is oats. On a recent TV health programme a Doctor ate porridge oats for breakfast every day for several weeks and the good bacteria in his gut increased way more than if he had just taken probiotic yoghurts etc.

[The Lizard of Oz]

(11-07-2013 09:41 PM)kbell Wrote:  

I do take probiotics. Kvass drinks, yogurt and kefirs. I have a longer colon than usual and autoimmune related gut problems. So its a bit more involved. I actually have my 5th colonoscopy coming up in 2 weeks. Nervousness or caffeine (had to use it twice this week) tend to exacerbate it.

A few months ago I did have to take antibiotics for a some cold like sickness which lasted at least a month. Ever since then the gut has been off, where before it was gradually getting better.

kbell, I think you should take VSL3. It's by far the more powerful and effective probiotic available and it can be curative for ulcerative colitis and the like. Look up the very substantial research about it and tell you GI doc to write you a prescription (you can also get it OTC but you will both pay less and get a more concentrated version with a prescription).

I've been taking it every day for about a year mainly preventively (there is some history of colon cancer in my family and the gut has always been my weakest point), and I've observed very significant improvement in my digestion as a result. In fact I just mixed in a sachet into some delicious Seven Stars yogurt for my breakfast.

[iknowexactly]

(10-23-2013 03:12 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(10-23-2013 02:41 PM)kbell Wrote:  

What am I supposed to ask them if I don't think they have CBT training?

A licensed therapist that doesn't know anything about CBT is like a licensed doctor that doesn't know about antibiotics or blood pressure.

It's the mainstream preference right now among therapists, it has good research validation.

The purpose of licensing is not to insure your practitioner is a god, it's just to insure a certain minimal level of competence.


There are a lot of surrounding problems like how does a feminist who has some subtle and pernicious devaluing beliefs about men effectively practice it, but if done well it works.

Psychotherapy is a difficult art to do really well, something like the way singing is. Innate talent immediately places you beyond many others who struggle but can't compete. My experience with my peers is that roughly 1/3 are incompetent-- thankfully they often find their way into management where they can't do any damage, 1/3 are OK, just by showing up and not being negative they are helpful, and about 1/3 are actually pretty good.

Excellence as always by definition is unusual.

[We The Real]

Accept the fears from the depressive thoughts. Understanding I am only human and not superman. Produce.

Producing in life doesn't give you time to think to much, depression I believe stems from over analyzing situations.

- Do not accept you have an illness ( clinically depressed)

" I don't believe in weakness.
It cost too much." - Lyman Zerga

[kbell]

One thing that stood out recently in this book was chapter 6 verbal judo. I'm far past that section but I keep thinking about it, so it must be important to me somehow. You get the critic to specifically tell you whats wrong with something you did or are acting. Than you agree with them even if there is nothing truthful about what they are saying. They eventually will run out of steam since your not fighting back. If you defend yourself you get them more irrational. After that when the critic is more calm you can negotiate with lee way like saying you may be wrong, but this is how you approached it or your point of view.

At first I thought this sound like you were being a doormat and beta. But I do this too a degree with angry employees and customers and it seems to calm them from being hostile.

[Sombro]

Vitamin B-12 is your friend. Seriously, find the right combination of vitamin/mineral supplements and skip the pharma-induced haze.
Examine your diet as well.

[kbell]

I finished chapter 19. Chapter 20 is about drug interactions even more so than 19 was more abbreviated drug interactions. I will probably call it quits at that point. The chapter is 100 plus pages and very technical. However I think I might want to start up the journal again. I did it for 3 months and your supposed to do it for 2months. I want to start reading Ellis book which I have now. I think he does the journal a bit differently and has a different take on things.

As for how I'm doing I haven't really felt bad but not great either. I haven't really felt that hopeless and my thoughts are more controlled than previously. However I do often forget the postive things that happen. Something I will have address. The weather doesn't really do me favors when it shifts from super cold temps to spring weather in less than week.

I been focused on learning sales of eyeglasses as I do work in the field but not as a dedicated salesman yet. Whenever I have a goal, which is to learn something I can be like a pitbull with sticking to it. However the desire to learn does not last more than a few years. Not sure why that is yet. But the point is that whenever I have a goal it tends to remove the feeling of hopelessness I can get if I'm inactive. I also feel that sales will help more than just work but with people in general. I've always been a tad anti-social. Conversations with more than one person is overwhelming for me, due to the pace it can go. I don't always think that fast and I don't like to interject since it feels rude to me. Due to that I can easily get left out of the conversation which takes me out of the moment. With the sales practice it has been easier for me to talk up conversations with random people. And I have a sense if I will close or not as well which helps with wasting time.

I have gotten several pms about if you can do Feeling Good only and not need a therapist. I would say it would depend on the severity of the depression. There is quite a few members on the forum that think therapists are not worth it, however I don't think they have experienced clinical depression, mania, OCD or BPD. Therapist do help with those cases from what I have seen at doctors offices and friends. However I haven't had much experience with CBT doctors yet. Will have to look into it more when I have some free time.

[MikeCF]

^ That's a great update.

Rewiring your brain takes time and you are on the right path.

Very cool what you're doing.

Keep it up!

[Chaos]

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the power of good music. It might not be for everybody but it can be a total mood changer for me.

I'm usually a extremely busy guy. Sometimes I wake up and having one of those days of hopeless and feeling that all my work and projects are going to hell. The energy levels has reached bottom and the negative energy is so overwhelming to it's really hard to start the day and see the light in the end of the tunnel.

These things makes me feel like a million bucks and kicking ass again.

1. Good music blasting. This can be a total game changer.
2. Talking with chicks.
3. MMA training.

Fisto's article about getting into the positive loop is a good line to follow.

But I'll add that smoking pot makes me passive like hell, I enjoy it at the time but the next days are not good. I feel lack of motivation and happiness and I'm lazy as hell,.

[iknowexactly]

I took some continuing education in Positive Thinking.

It turns out keeping a gratitude diary is a proven effective method of reducing depression.

I found it helps for me.

Look around at roads, bridges, science, medicine-- millions of people have been working at figuring out and building things to make your life better and more comfortable for CENTURIES.

Their kindness and efforts are built into the world around you.

Everything they did with their lives is just waiting for you.

[iknowexactly]

(12-17-2013 10:06 PM)kbell Wrote:  

One thing that stood out recently in this book was chapter 6 verbal judo.

If someone's picking on me non-productively, I just ask them "What do you want me to do?" This puts the burden on them and puts focus on future, since we can't change the past.

[kbell]

I like the idea of a gratitude journal. I'm not sure if you do it every day but when you write something down like this you would be forced to think a certain way at least while your writing it. I tend to think the opposite so it should help in theory. Have to test it first. I found this which was interesting. Burns might have mentioned this in passing in the book, but I remember certain things more such as the journal, cognitive distortions, and perfection list stand out as most clear. One of the downsides of the book is I don't think he went into enough detail about actually doing things. The conversations were helpful but they can be hard to remember them. The verbal judo one stood out the most. Its easier to remember a concept in my opinion though.

http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/...de_journal