[svenski7]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-04...-30?page=1

"At this point about half of all recent college graduates are working jobs that do not even require a college degree."

"In the United States today, 317,000 waiters and waitresses have college degrees."

[The Great Basilisk]

Quote:

"It seems to me that if you went to college and took on student debt, there used to be greater assurance that you could pay it off with a good job," said the Colorado native, who majored in English before dropping out. "But now, for people living in this economy and in our age group, it's a rough deal."

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

To be fair, even people with actual useful stuff are in dire straits here. I know at least several waiters or shopkeepers with electronics, energy and programming degrees.

[It_is_my_time]

(10-18-2013 11:55 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

To be fair, even people with actual useful stuff are in dire straits here. I know at least several waiters or shopkeepers with electronics, energy and programming degrees.

Excellent article, a must read for the young men in the USA.

With companies hoarding cash, and not wanting to expand with the horrible policies coming out of DC, even people with useful degrees will struggle.

Can't blame companies for not wanting to grow and expand when DC keeps pushing out more and more regulations that greatly impact their future income.

[Dr. Howard]

"29 percent of people aged 25 to 34 are living with their parents"

That is alot. It also follows that men are twice as likely as women to live with their parents. Bad for the economy and men in general but great if you are in that age and simply 'have your own place' you are already light years ahead for logistics.

[Screwston]

Ive never met one guy that age who lives with his parents. Can someone post the list?

[Kickb]

I know three people who live with their parents still.

All of them are 23.

There rumors that an old boss of mine (29years old) lived with his mom and cat, but that was never confirmed.

[Therapsid]

(10-18-2013 12:22 PM)wiscanada Wrote:  

"29 percent of people aged 25 to 34 are living with their parents"

That is alot. It also follows that men are twice as likely as women to live with their parents. Bad for the economy and men in general but great if you are in that age and simply 'have your own place' you are already light years ahead for logistics.

Where are you getting that men are twice as likely to live with their parents? That's not my personal experience at all.

From the Pew study that the list refers to:

"Young men and young women are equally likely to fall into this category—40% of men ages 18 to 34 and 38% of women in the same age group either live with their parents now or moved back in for a time because of the economy."

This includes people in this age group who either still live with or at some point moved back in with their parents since the recession.

Actually, for 25-34 who are living with their parents *right now* the figure is 21% in 2010. So, one in five people in their late twenties and early thirties live with their folks.

The figure is much higher for early 20's. Living in NJ suburbia, the majority of young girls in my area still live at home in my experience.

[RexImperator]

(10-18-2013 11:55 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

To be fair, even people with actual useful stuff are in dire straits here. I know at least several waiters or shopkeepers with electronics, energy and programming degrees.

Under-employed BS in Physics waving in here...to be fair I stopped actively searching for jobs a long time ago though. I've seriously thought about going for a MS/PhD in EE but in the current situation I'm not even sure if that's a good idea anymore.

I suspect that the whole "STEM shortage" mentioned in the media does not exist in reality and it's just part of an attempt to push for more H1B visas. In other words, what companies really want are the TONS of engineering students from India and China.

[Therapsid]

If folks were really concerned about some "STEM shortage" then reform the whole academic system.

People going into science shouldn't need to go for a bachelors then a masters, PhD, and post-doc and arrive sometime in early middle age.

It takes too long. Research shows how people are most creative and enterprising when they're young. That's why the best mathematicians earned their places in history as young men.

[Cattle Rustler]

(10-18-2013 12:50 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

(10-18-2013 11:55 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

To be fair, even people with actual useful stuff are in dire straits here. I know at least several waiters or shopkeepers with electronics, energy and programming degrees.

Under-employed BS in Physics waving in here...to be fair I stopped actively searching for jobs a long time ago though. I've seriously thought about going for a MS/PhD in EE but in the current situation I'm not even sure if that's a good idea anymore.

I suspect that the whole "STEM shortage" mentioned in the media does not exist in reality and it's just part of an attempt to push for more H1B visas. In other words, what companies really want are the TONS of engineering students from India and China.

Have you thought about going ME and work in the oil fields?

[Tex Pro]

I've met a lot of girls who still live with their parents, so the statistic is definitely correct. The news media doesn't realize how bad things are out there because: 1) the official unemployment rate (U-3) excludes the long-term unemployed and doesn't count under-employment and 2) there are a lot of younger people that are still living with their parents. This means that the media can claim that the unemployment rate is "going down" and point to the fact that there aren't a bunch of homeless people roaming about. Smoke and mirrors...smoke and mirrors.

[RexImperator]

(10-18-2013 12:57 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

(10-18-2013 12:50 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

(10-18-2013 11:55 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

To be fair, even people with actual useful stuff are in dire straits here. I know at least several waiters or shopkeepers with electronics, energy and programming degrees.

Under-employed BS in Physics waving in here...to be fair I stopped actively searching for jobs a long time ago though. I've seriously thought about going for a MS/PhD in EE but in the current situation I'm not even sure if that's a good idea anymore.

I suspect that the whole "STEM shortage" mentioned in the media does not exist in reality and it's just part of an attempt to push for more H1B visas. In other words, what companies really want are the TONS of engineering students from India and China.

Have you thought about going ME and work in the oil fields?

I've looked into some Petroleum Engineering degrees out of curiosity but I haven't actually checked out Mech.Engineering programs, so no. What do MEs do out there?

[j r]

That post seems a bit sensationalist to me, as is the style of Zero Hedge. You can't really interpret these stats outside of context. it would be more interesting to see how these trends have evolved over time. My guess is that a lot of these can be explained by more people going to college than ever before.

[Tex Pro]

(10-18-2013 01:05 PM)j r Wrote:  

That post seems a bit sensationalist to me, as is the style of Zero Hedge. You can't really interpret these stats outside of context. it would be more interesting to see how these trends have evolved over time. My guess is that a lot of these can be explained by more people going to college than ever before.

The stats are solid, but yeah they can't be quoted out of context.

Still, it does at least prove that the old adage that a college degree is the ticket to the middle class is not necessarily true.

[DjembaDjemba]

(10-18-2013 12:50 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

(10-18-2013 11:55 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

To be fair, even people with actual useful stuff are in dire straits here. I know at least several waiters or shopkeepers with electronics, energy and programming degrees.

Under-employed BS in Physics waving in here...to be fair I stopped actively searching for jobs a long time ago though. I've seriously thought about going for a MS/PhD in EE but in the current situation I'm not even sure if that's a good idea anymore.

I suspect that the whole "STEM shortage" mentioned in the media does not exist in reality and it's just part of an attempt to push for more H1B visas. In other words, what companies really want are the TONS of engineering students from India and China.

The university degree only expands your mind and gives you a skill-set to critically think at your future career. You still need a "skill" for the jobs market.

What kind of job can you get with any degree other than possibly IT? Probably nothing too substantial without a descent connection.

Physics, Chemistry, Economics, Life Sciences, Math, and Engineering are all great undergrads but they don't give you the skills to do a job.

There is a problem in the Americas, too many people have taken degrees and then stop. They then refuse to take something that makes them employable.

A degree is good because it makes you learn how to prioritize your time properly between work-study-and play. It teaches you to critically think.

It's not the end all be all, it's just a stepping stone.

There is a labour shortage out there. Not enough people with technical skills to do the jobs. Too many people would rather go into retail after finishing their economics degree than to take a 6 week post graduate course at the local college that teaches them a skill to land them a good paying job.

Then they start blogs about how America is ending. While American businesses are importing Indian workers with skills, why? Because people at home don't bother to look online for some easy ass post graduate bird programs that can land you a $70,000 paying job after completion.

It's not the baby boomers, there's quite a bit of entitlement involved all across the board.

[RexImperator]

(10-18-2013 01:13 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

Too many people would rather go into retail after finishing their economics degree than to take a 6 week post graduate course at the local college that teaches them a skill to land them a good paying job.

Then they start blogs about how America is ending. While American businesses are importing Indian workers with skills, why? Because people at home don't bother to look online for some easy ass post graduate bird programs that can land you a $70,000 paying job after completion.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but do you have any concrete examples?

[kenny_powers]

#23 In the United States today, there are more than 100,000 janitors that have college degrees.


I think they got #23 from watching this movie:

[DjembaDjemba]

(10-18-2013 01:42 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

(10-18-2013 01:13 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

Too many people would rather go into retail after finishing their economics degree than to take a 6 week post graduate course at the local college that teaches them a skill to land them a good paying job.

Then they start blogs about how America is ending. While American businesses are importing Indian workers with skills, why? Because people at home don't bother to look online for some easy ass post graduate bird programs that can land you a $70,000 paying job after completion.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but do you have any concrete examples?

Just check out the US oil boom thread. Wealth of info there.

[GameTheory]

(10-18-2013 12:50 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

Under-employed BS in Physics waving in here...to be fair I stopped actively searching for jobs a long time ago though. I've seriously thought about going for a MS/PhD in EE but in the current situation I'm not even sure if that's a good idea anymore.

I suspect that the whole "STEM shortage" mentioned in the media does not exist in reality and it's just part of an attempt to push for more H1B visas. In other words, what companies really want are the TONS of engineering students from India and China.

TL;DR VERSION: the University of California system receives Federal kickbacks of $30 MILLION a year for admitting foreign STEM graduate students
http://www.cis.org/print/uc-bonus

[Cattle Rustler]

(10-18-2013 01:49 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

(10-18-2013 01:42 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

(10-18-2013 01:13 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

Too many people would rather go into retail after finishing their economics degree than to take a 6 week post graduate course at the local college that teaches them a skill to land them a good paying job.

Then they start blogs about how America is ending. While American businesses are importing Indian workers with skills, why? Because people at home don't bother to look online for some easy ass post graduate bird programs that can land you a $70,000 paying job after completion.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but do you have any concrete examples?

Just check out the US oil boom thread. Wealth of info there.

They need to be updated, not to mention that the US "free markets" are paying crappy wages even for the oil jobs compared to other places like Canada.

US roustabout: 10.50/hr
Canadian roustabout: 16ish/hr

[j r]

(10-18-2013 01:42 PM)kenny_powers Wrote:  

#23 In the United States today, there are more than 100,000 janitors that have college degrees.

This is the perfect example of something that us meaningless by itself. First of all, according to the BLS there are about 2.5 million janitors in the country, so 100k is about 3 percent. Second, who are these small percentage who have college degrees? How many of them are immigrants who had professional jobs in their own countries, but have been unable to get established in this country because they don't have the right certification? How many of them are janitors who earned a degree online or at night so they could get a better job? How many of them are managers?

[speakeasy]

(10-18-2013 12:34 PM)houston Wrote:  

Ive never met one guy that age who lives with his parents. Can someone post the list?

You also live in one of the lowest cost states. In California there are tons of people into their 30s living at home or with roommates.

(10-18-2013 01:13 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

(10-18-2013 12:50 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

(10-18-2013 11:55 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

To be fair, even people with actual useful stuff are in dire straits here. I know at least several waiters or shopkeepers with electronics, energy and programming degrees.

Under-employed BS in Physics waving in here...to be fair I stopped actively searching for jobs a long time ago though. I've seriously thought about going for a MS/PhD in EE but in the current situation I'm not even sure if that's a good idea anymore.

I suspect that the whole "STEM shortage" mentioned in the media does not exist in reality and it's just part of an attempt to push for more H1B visas. In other words, what companies really want are the TONS of engineering students from India and China.

The university degree only expands your mind and gives you a skill-set to critically think at your future career. You still need a "skill" for the jobs market.

What kind of job can you get with any degree other than possibly IT? Probably nothing too substantial without a descent connection.

Physics, Chemistry, Economics, Life Sciences, Math, and Engineering are all great undergrads but they don't give you the skills to do a job.

There is a problem in the Americas, too many people have taken degrees and then stop. They then refuse to take something that makes them employable.

A degree is good because it makes you learn how to prioritize your time properly between work-study-and play. It teaches you to critically think.

It's not the end all be all, it's just a stepping stone.

There is a labour shortage out there. Not enough people with technical skills to do the jobs. Too many people would rather go into retail after finishing their economics degree than to take a 6 week post graduate course at the local college that teaches them a skill to land them a good paying job.

Then they start blogs about how America is ending. While American businesses are importing Indian workers with skills, why? Because people at home don't bother to look online for some easy ass post graduate bird programs that can land you a $70,000 paying job after completion.

It's not the baby boomers, there's quite a bit of entitlement involved all across the board.

A major thing that has changed is that employers want employees who can hit the ground running. In the past there was more of an apprenticeship where they would take people at the entry-level and train them the skills they need for those jobs. That doesn't really exist in the private sector anymore. It still does in the military however. So you can actually go into the military knowing nothing and walk out with some valuable technical skills.

Another thing is that there are many good paying jobs that are unfulfilled but they require very specific skill sets and experience that are hard to acquire. Like there are tons of big data jobs out there, but you have to be skilled in math, statistics, programming and database to get them. So if you have those skill set you are set.

(10-18-2013 12:22 PM)wiscanada Wrote:  

"29 percent of people aged 25 to 34 are living with their parents"

That is alot. It also follows that men are twice as likely as women to live with their parents. Bad for the economy and men in general but great if you are in that age and simply 'have your own place' you are already light years ahead for logistics.

Basically what is happening is that America's lifestyle is converging with the global average. In many if not most countries, multi-generational households are the norm. In America's golden era, you could graduate from high school, not go to college, get a good-paying job that could support a family on one income and still buy a house. Those days are long gone. Even in first world countries like Italy, adult children living at home is very common. In Latin America it's very much the norm, as it is across Asia, India and probably all of the middle east and Africa. As America continues to lose its steam and wealth becomes ever more concentrated in fewer hands, you will see more of it here too.

[RexImperator]

(10-18-2013 02:43 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

A major thing that has changed is that employers want employees who can hit the ground running. In the past there was more of an apprenticeship where they would take people at the entry-level and train them the skills they need for those jobs. That doesn't really exist in the private sector anymore.

This is what I've found. Companies pretty much only want to hire people who are already doing the job somewhere else and thus have already been trained up in it.

So even with a degree in a supposedly higher-demand field like engineering, unless you did those (now critically important) engineering internships during your undergraduate summers, at a company doing the same or similar work to what you hope to do upon graduation, you could easily end up quite f---ed in your job search.

[RexImperator]

(10-18-2013 01:52 PM)GameTheory Wrote:  

TL;DR VERSION: the University of California system receives Federal kickbacks of $30 MILLION a year for admitting foreign STEM graduate students
http://www.cis.org/print/uc-bonus

What else can I say but Wow.

The fake STEM crisis really deserves it's own thread (in fact I think there are some similar already) but here's a very relevant article:

http://m.spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/educa...-is-a-myth