[Beyond Borders]

Quote:

A popular 15-year-old student has committed suicide after he reportedly faced expulsion and could have been placed on the sex offenders' register simply for streaking at a high school football game.

Christian Adamek, from Huntsville, Alabama, hanged himself on October 2, a week after he was arrested for running naked across the Sparkman High football field during a game.

The teenager died two days later from his injuries and on Wednesday, friends and family gathered at a memorial service as they struggled to comprehend the beloved student's death.

A video of Adamek streaking during a game against a rival team was posted on YouTube hours after the event and students took to Twitter to call him a 'legend'.

[...]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-game.html

Another win for the Land of the Free...

[Giovonny]

Suicide is beta, in my opinion..

According to the story, he became a "local legend". He could have parlayed this into some social status-girls-popularity.

What a waste of potential.

I blame the parents for not showing him 100% love and support.

[Beyond Borders]

(10-11-2013 11:18 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Suicide is beta, in my opinion..

Of course, but no less tragic. And a lot of kids are beta and emotional. They're kids. Such a stigma would even turn a lot of grown men into an emotional wreck. I'm not sure I entirely get your point.

Anyways, pretty fucked that something that used to just be "boys up to no good" can now potentially land a 15-year-old on the sex offender list.

Quote:

I blame the parents for not showing him 100% love and support.

What do you mean by this? Do you know something about the family?

[Cattle Rustler]

I don't know how being labeled a sex offender would do him any good, the "local legend" would wear off after a while. Not to mention people move in and out all the time.

He wouldn't be able to hold a hold, go to college, and have strict residency restrictions.

[Walderschmidt]

(10-11-2013 11:18 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Suicide is beta, in my opinion..

According to the story, he became a "local legend". He could have parlayed this into some social status-girls-popularity.

What a waste of potential.

I blame the parents for not showing him 100% love and support.

I can understand your thoughts on suicide - my father raised me to believe that suicide is the coward's way out.

Still - I believe it is a harsh judgement of a 15 year old boy. At his age things seem so much worse and he does not have the judgement or experience you and I might have to try and get through it anyway. I imagine young boys are all too familiar what happens to those who get labelled sex offenders or creepy.

Sure - you could blame his parents. But that is besides the point. They might have done all they could but have no power to do much. Maybe they believe in the system.

Ultimately - he decided his life is over - because the system threatened him with a label that in his eyes meant that life was over anyway.

Wald

[Beyond Borders]

Yeah, I think blaming the parents without any basis to go on is a huge leap. Could a lack of parental guidance have played a role? Possibly, I guess...

Cruel thing to say about someone who just lost a kid this way if you're wrong though. You might as well say every parent of a teen that kills himself is at fault, but given the complexity of life I think that'd be a pretty brutal stretch.

[renotime]

Meanwhile the chick that streaked at the golf tourney got off with a fine that some white knight paid for her.

[MrLemon]

As a father of an almost-teen boy, this kind of stuff literally makes my blood boil. This is bad, bad shit.

America is waging war on teenage boys. This boy was driven to kill himself by our insane, destructive legal system out of control. Calling him "beta" is idiotic. This was a 15-year old boy who is completely confused and uncertain of his power and sexuality. He has no legal rights, few other men who are supporting him or teaching him how to gain his own power.

You guys have no idea how devastating this stuff is. Once on a sex offender list, a boy's life is essentially over. Can't get a job, can't live in most communities, shunned and spit on. It's horrifying, and there are prosecutors and judges just salivating about doing it.

Every type of normal (and unavoidable) teenage male behavior is now subject to draconian penalties that rip the kid apart, rip the family apart, and often destroy the community.

I wish I had more money. I'd go down and fund a lawsuit/PR campaign that would hound those local law enforcement officials out of town.

We need severe, and aggressive punishment against the proscecutors who are doing this. Other than that, we need to start arming and organizing the parents of these boys.

/rant

[Cattle Rustler]

(10-11-2013 11:50 AM)MrLemon Wrote:  

As a father of an almost-teen boy, this kind of stuff literally makes my blood boil. This is bad, bad shit.

America is waging war on teenage boys. This boy was driven to kill himself by our insane, destructive legal system out of control. Calling him "beta" is idiotic. This was a 15-year old boy who is completely confused and uncertain of his power and sexuality. He has no legal rights, few other men who are supporting him or teaching him how to gain his own power.

You guys have no idea how devastating this stuff is. Once on a sex offender list, a boy's life is essentially over. Can't get a job, can't live in most communities, shunned and spit on. It's horrifying, and there are prosecutors and judges just salivating about doing it.

Every type of normal (and unavoidable) teenage male behavior is now subject to draconian penalties that rip the kid apart, rip the family apart, and often destroy the community.

I wish I had more money. I'd go down and fund a lawsuit/PR campaign that would hound those local law enforcement officials out of town.

We need severe, and aggressive punishment against the proscecutors who are doing this. Other than that, we need to start arming and organizing the parents of these boys.

/rant

I understand your feelings Lemon, but the thing is....you will be fighting against the police union. Those busters have unlimited funding, they rarely lose a fight. Not to mention they will try to pull some shit on you.

Once my friend gave me 13 punches for my 13th birthday and he got suspended for assault and "bullying".....I didn't say anything, it was a vice-principal who saw this and wanted to make "a statement". Some kids did a senior prank and got suspended in addition to being barred from going to their graduation ceremony when their fathers got no punishment 22-25 years before.

Boys cant be boys anymore.

Edit: Gio...he was going to be given sex offender status without a doubt. This took place in Alabama, not cali....'bama law is more than happy to stick its boot up anyone's ass. Ali can attest to that. Although if I remember correctly, the status can be removed after being 18 or 21 depending on the state....this being alabama, i doubt it.

[Giovonny]

(10-11-2013 11:23 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

I'm not sure I entirely get your point.

My point is..

He chose death over life. Life is about survival.

From a biological/evolutionary standpoint.. What could be more beta?

(10-11-2013 11:23 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

Quote:

I blame the parents for not showing him 100% love and support.

What do you mean by this? Do you know something about the family?

I don't know anything about the family so I shouldn't have assumed anything.

****

He was NOT on a sex offender list. It was only a possibility. It might not have even happened. The community might have supported the kid..

He could have fought it. Instead, he gave himself the death sentence.

[MrLemon]

(10-11-2013 12:18 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 11:50 AM)MrLemon Wrote:  

As a father of an almost-teen boy, this kind of stuff literally makes my blood boil. This is bad, bad shit.

America is waging war on teenage boys. This boy was driven to kill himself by our insane, destructive legal system out of control. Calling him "beta" is idiotic. This was a 15-year old boy who is completely confused and uncertain of his power and sexuality. He has no legal rights, few other men who are supporting him or teaching him how to gain his own power.

You guys have no idea how devastating this stuff is. Once on a sex offender list, a boy's life is essentially over. Can't get a job, can't live in most communities, shunned and spit on. It's horrifying, and there are prosecutors and judges just salivating about doing it.

Every type of normal (and unavoidable) teenage male behavior is now subject to draconian penalties that rip the kid apart, rip the family apart, and often destroy the community.

I wish I had more money. I'd go down and fund a lawsuit/PR campaign that would hound those local law enforcement officials out of town.

We need severe, and aggressive punishment against the proscecutors who are doing this. Other than that, we need to start arming and organizing the parents of these boys.

/rant

I understand your feelings Lemon, but the thing is....you will be fighting against the police union. Those busters have unlimited funding, they rarely lose a fight. Not to mention they will try to pull some shit on you.

Once my friend gave me 13 punches for my 13th birthday and he got suspended for assault and "bullying".....I didn't say anything, it was a vice-principal who saw this and wanted to make "a statement". Some kids did a senior prank and got suspended in addition to being barred from going to their graduation ceremony when their fathers got no punishment 22-25 years before.

Boys cant be boys anymore.

Edit: Gio...he was going to be given sex offender status without a doubt. This took place in Alabama, not cali....'bama law is more than happy to stick its boot up anyone's ass. Ali can attest to that. Although if I remember correctly, the status can be removed after being 18 or 21 depending on the state....this being alabama, i doubt it.

Oh yeah, I understand you. Every day I have to teach my boy to "keep your head down and don't try to fight it".

It's sickening.

[Giovonny]

(10-11-2013 12:18 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

Edit: Gio...he was going to be given sex offender status without a doubt...... the status can be removed after being 18 or 21 depending on the state....

"Sex offender" for streaking a football game???

It seems crazy to me.

I want to believe that the school/judge/community would not have allowed that to happen -- but, who knows???

And, as you said, often times this "sex offender" status would be removed when he became an adult.

He should have apologized, got a lawyer, and fought it as hard as possible.

Just my opinion.

[Barron]

(10-11-2013 11:18 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Suicide is beta, in my opinion..

According to the story, he became a "local legend". He could have parlayed this into some social status-girls-popularity.

What a waste of potential.

I blame the parents for not showing him 100% love and support.

He's 15... even alpha's at that age aren't consciously aware of their potential

[Giovonny]

(10-11-2013 01:32 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

He's 15... even alpha's at that age aren't consciously aware of their potential

I think few people are aware of their own potential.

But, in terms of 15yo boys -- I think they should have more respect for their own life.

This boy was also very selfish and short-sighted. He caused terrible pain to his family and friends.

Suicide is often just the ultimate "attention whoring". (Except in the case of mental illness/depression)

I probably sound like an asshole but this is my honest opinion.

*****

My brother killed himself a few years ago.

[Walderschmidt]

I disagree with you here and quite frankly I don't like everything that you say.

But I'd rather you tell me your honest opinion than say stuff you think people want to hear.

Why do you think this way?

Could you tell us more about the circumstances of your brother's suicide?

Wald

(10-11-2013 01:46 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

I think few people are aware of their own potential.

But, in terms of 15yo boys -- I think they should have more respect for their own life.

This boy was also very selfish and short-sighted. He caused terrible pain to his family and friends.

Suicide is often just the ultimate "attention whoring". (Except in the case of mental illness/depression)

I probably sound like an asshole but this is my honest opinion.

*****

My brother killed himself a few years ago.

[Giovonny]

(10-11-2013 01:53 PM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

Why do you think this way?

I think life is essentially about survival.

Choosing to die is essentially giving up.

I don't see the honor in killing yourself.

I would love to hear your perspective on this if you care to share.?

(10-11-2013 01:53 PM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

Could you tell us more about the circumstances of your brother's suicide?

Sure.

My brother was a boxer and mma fighter. He took many blows to the head.

He got many serious concussions. I think his brain was severely bruised.

Basically, his brain stopped working properly. He lost his mind. He was no longer capable of dealing with life.

I miss my brother but I'm not mad at him. His life is his life and he can do what he wants with it.

I respect his decision to end it. This place is not easy to navigate for many people.

Is it hypocritical that I criticized that kid but not my brother???

That kid made a decision to die. My brother lost the ability to even make a decision because his brain was so damaged.

I don't know???

[Walderschmidt]

(10-11-2013 02:20 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

I think life is essentially about survival.

Choosing to die is essentially giving up.

I don't see the honor in killing yourself.

I would love to hear your perspective on this if you care to share.?

I agree with you here. I view killing one's self as a coward's way out and selfish as one causes pain for surviving family. I don't see honor in killing yourself either.

We agree here.

(10-11-2013 02:20 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

My brother was a boxer and mma fighter. He took many blows to the head.

He got many serious concussions. I think his brain was severely bruised.

Basically, his brain stopped working properly.

He was no longer capable of dealing with life.

I miss my brother but I'm not mad at him. His life is his life and he can do what he wants with it.

I respect his decision to end it. This place is not easy to navigate for many people.

Is it hypocritical that I criticized that kid but not my brother???

That kid made a decision to die. My brother lost the ability to even make a decision because his brain was so damaged.

I don't know???

I understand why your brother did it. I would not judge him.

At first glance - I would consider it hypocritical that you have different standards for your brother compared to the 15 year old boy. But I don't consider it that hypocritical. It is no different for hold a man to different standards to a woman (the double standard).

The part I disagree with you on is that you criticize the 15 year old boy for not living up to a standard you hold yourself to.

I try not to do this. I've been lucky to have travelled a lot. One of the things I've learned is that the concept of normal doesn't really exist. What is normal is Japan is not necessarily normal in the US. What is normal in the US is not necessarily normal in Russia. The goes with people too. Not everyone lives up to the same standards - you can see this just by observing a man in shape and a man who is not. You can see this by looking at a skinny, feminine woman, and looking at a fat, masculine one. I dislike that you criticize the boy for not living up to your standards. He was raised differently than you. With different values. What if he decided it only made sense to kill himself, based on the principles he lived by?

I judge men on their ability to live up to their own principles.

It sounds like your brother killed himself because he could not live because his brain was so damaged. I respect that. Did he want to get punched in the head so many times to have to even make such a decision? Probably not - but he did train significant time, I am sure, to become a boxer and an MMA fighter.

It sounds like the boy killed himself because he felt like he'd have no life to live as soon as he got slapped with the sex offender label. Did he want to have the label applied? No. I acknowledge that he did streak at the football game. But you and I both think that getting put on the sex offender registry for that is ludicrous.

Those are my thoughts.

Wald

[TheSlayer]

Gio, you know i got nothing but love for you but I disagree with you on this man. I agree with you in principle but this is a 15 year old boy. I look back and think how dumb I was at 15. I was a completely different person. At 15 I wouldn't hold anyone to the standards you are holding them to simply because at that age you are still developing mentally.

We don't know the pressure that was on him, his personal circumstances or anything. Maybe he didn't have the support of his parents, friends, and the community. As you grow older and develop mentally, you can handle more and you can come to the conclusion: suicide is beta (which I agree with) but not for a 15 year old.

The notion of putting a streaker on a sex offenders list is incredibly dumb but that's a different conversation.

I do feel sorry for this guy. Had it been a 15 year old girl she would have been encouraged by everyone for being herself and doing something that only boys do.

[Sp5]

Most places, this would have been eventually dismissed with payment of court costs and maybe some community service. Not sure about Alabama, but someone should have taken the kid aside and let him know this. Unfortunately, most adults in his life were probably threatening him with dire consequences.

This is also what happens when you have demented prosecutors empowered by the "law and order" mindset.

[MrLemon]

(10-11-2013 02:58 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  

Most places, this would have been eventually dismissed with payment of court costs and maybe some community service. Not sure about Alabama, but someone should have taken the kid aside and let him know this. Unfortunately, most adults in his life were probably threatening him with dire consequences.

This is also what happens when you have demented prosecutors empowered by the "law and order" mindset.

There are an increasing number of prosecutors who are pressing sexual predator laws on teenage boys. It's growing. The reason is, they are under pressure by insane Feminist groups.

[It_is_my_time]

(10-11-2013 03:22 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 02:58 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  

Most places, this would have been eventually dismissed with payment of court costs and maybe some community service. Not sure about Alabama, but someone should have taken the kid aside and let him know this. Unfortunately, most adults in his life were probably threatening him with dire consequences.

This is also what happens when you have demented prosecutors empowered by the "law and order" mindset.

There are an increasing number of prosecutors who are pressing sexual predator laws on teenage boys. It's growing. The reason is, they are under pressure by insane Feminist groups.

Exactly, hell in most (if not all) states you can be put on a sexual predator list for your entire life if you hide behind some bushes and take a leak and get caught.

Much less something this big. I am certain in all 50 states this kid would get lead to the slaughter.

[Cattle Rustler]

(10-11-2013 03:22 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 02:58 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  

Most places, this would have been eventually dismissed with payment of court costs and maybe some community service. Not sure about Alabama, but someone should have taken the kid aside and let him know this. Unfortunately, most adults in his life were probably threatening him with dire consequences.

This is also what happens when you have demented prosecutors empowered by the "law and order" mindset.

There are an increasing number of prosecutors who are pressing sexual predator laws on teenage boys. It's growing. The reason is, they are under pressure by insane Feminist groups.

There have been cases in the news where kids are getting charged with "creating and distributing" kiddy porn........because they took their own pictures and sent them to their boyfriend or girlfriend. The boy/girlfriend have gotten charged too, even if both are under 18.

Most police departments give students a deadline to delete all files or face charges, I'm totally cool with that. It's reasonable and it teaches kids a lesson not to be fools. But there are growing reports of people getting charged, courts gotta make money.

Now, it's dumb that kids are doing this because that one image can spread to the whole school and cause a lot drama. It's unreasonable to slap a kid with offender registration just from one teenage mistake.

[loki]

As we all know there is no faster or powerful way to ruin a guy then to tag him as a sexual offender.

Its a stain that will remain on him for life no matter what he does , and to see this done to what is basically a child over a prank is wrong in so many ways it makes me rage.

We have now lost a brother because of fatally flawed laws and regulations, a brother that had so much potential....now gone for ever!

Calling him beta is a weak move guys, he lost hope, plain and simple and no one backed him up through it because if they did he would still be here.

The legal system is fucked and this is just another prime example of how fucked it is and the damage it does while it runs this out of control course, steered by idiots and until we the people stand up for our rights and beliefs and speak with one voice nothing will change, only get worse.

<end rant>

[Giovonny]

(10-11-2013 02:39 PM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

The part I disagree with you on is that you criticize the 15 year old boy for not living up to a standard you hold yourself to.

This is why I like when people disagree with me!

It forces me to think about the idea in a different way.

I didn't realize that I was applying my standards to his life.

I thought that everyone valued life as much as I do. Obviously not.

Thanks for the in-depth response Wald!

(10-11-2013 02:39 PM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

the concept of normal doesn't really exist.

What is normal to me is not normal to you.

I got it.

(10-11-2013 02:39 PM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

I dislike that you criticize the boy for not living up to your standards.

I was ignorant, I didn't know better.

I thought my standard of life over death was a natural law. I now realize that its just my opinion.

Not everyone values life the way I do.

(10-11-2013 02:39 PM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

He was raised differently than you. With different values.

Yes

(10-11-2013 02:39 PM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

What if he decided it only made sense to kill himself, based on the principles he lived by?

I am reminded of suicide bombers and Kamikaze pilots. They feel that they are giving their life for a higher cause.

Suicide is noble.

A different way of thinking.

(10-11-2013 02:39 PM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

I judge men on their ability to live up to their own principles.

I agree but only to a point.

What if the person has evil or otherwise negative principles?

Should we respect them for living up to their evil principles? Of course not. I would respect them more if they gave up their principles and adopted new ones.

I respect a man who realizes that his principles are wrong and updates them.

I would have really respected that kid if would have went against his own principles and decided to live. If, at that last moment he decided to change his principle towards life. If he went against his programming and choose life. I would have thought that was really cool. But, I know, its nearly impossible.

If I was raised the way he was, I probably would have done the same thing. Who knows?

I was applying my standards to him. Now, I can see that.

[Giovonny]

(10-11-2013 02:52 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

this is a 15 year old boy.

True. I didn't take into account his youth.

Maybe, he just made a mistake, a big mistake that he cant take back.

Because of his age, I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

*****

Also, I can now see that this boy was probably under a lot of pressure from society (career), government (courts, police), feminist culture, etc.

I might argue that most of that "pressure" existed only in the boy's head, but, that is a whole separate conversation.