[Roosh]

Do you guys get this? I've always had a problem with it... I wonder if there is a breathing technique to use in order to avoid it. It's almost always when I hold my breath on a tough rep, but it's hard not to.

http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_...under_eyes

[WesternCancer]

I've never gotten them, but I find if I clench my abdominal muscles/core instead of my diaphragm I feel less pressure on my face.

[velkrum]

Your suppose to hold your breath when lifting heavy, Don't worry about red dots. keep doing what your doing

[HiFlo]

Exhale forcefully on the concentric (when you push, lift, heave), inhale on the eccentric (when you put the weight back down).

[Stitch]

Sounds like the sort of "speckling" I get when inverted for a decent amount of time (handstand pushups or handstand practice). You are supposed to maintain some pressure (some advocate letting some air escape in a "hiss" so as not to generate too much pressure), but that pressure is there for a reason, so don't lift heavy without it.

[gringochileno]

It's increased pressure leading to higher blood flow to your face. It's not anything to be worried about (unless you're specifically at risk for strokes). Do the red dots not go away for a while after you lift?

[Laser]

(04-18-2012 10:28 PM)HiFlo Wrote:  

Exhale forcefully on the concentric (when you push, lift, heave), inhale on the eccentric (when you put the weight back down).

This is incorrect. Taking a big, deep breath and holding it throughout the lift increases the intra-thoracic pressure and subsequently the intra-abdominal pressure. This pressure acts like a pneumatic brace against the anterior portion of the spine while the erectors of the back brace it from the posterior. This increases the support of the spine, and more support means more strength. This is related to why it is good to wear a belt when training.

The belt’s purpose is to constrict the abdominals to give them something to contract against. This contraction of the abdominals with an appropriately tightened belt is like trying to increase the volume in a non-expansible container — it increases the pressure even more. Not only is it helping to increase the intra-abdominal and thoracic pressure more than without the belt, but the abdominals also contract harder into the belt to do so. More pressure is more support which means more strength to do the task at hand.

http://www.70sbig.com/blog/2009/12/belt-me-up-scotty/

[Roosh]

(04-18-2012 10:55 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  

It's increased pressure leading to higher blood flow to your face. It's not anything to be worried about (unless you're specifically at risk for strokes). Do the red dots not go away for a while after you lift?

Yeah goes away in 3 days usually.

[Walnuts]

That sounds like burst capillaries Roosh, try not to put that much pressure into your face (you know what I mean).

[travolta]

(04-19-2012 04:44 AM)Laser Wrote:  

(04-18-2012 10:28 PM)HiFlo Wrote:  

Exhale forcefully on the concentric (when you push, lift, heave), inhale on the eccentric (when you put the weight back down).

This is incorrect. Taking a big, deep breath and holding it throughout the lift increases the intra-thoracic pressure and subsequently the intra-abdominal pressure. This pressure acts like a pneumatic brace against the anterior portion of the spine while the erectors of the back brace it from the posterior. This increases the support of the spine, and more support means more strength. This is related to why it is good to wear a belt when training.

The belt’s purpose is to constrict the abdominals to give them something to contract against. This contraction of the abdominals with an appropriately tightened belt is like trying to increase the volume in a non-expansible container — it increases the pressure even more. Not only is it helping to increase the intra-abdominal and thoracic pressure more than without the belt, but the abdominals also contract harder into the belt to do so. More pressure is more support which means more strength to do the task at hand.

http://www.70sbig.com/blog/2009/12/belt-me-up-scotty/

The Valsalva Maneuver (holding your breath and creating intrathoracic pressure) has it's time and place during a lift, but you must breathe during every lift. The Valsalva Maneuver can raise your blood pressure to dangerous levels (although it's only temporary, and is usually only contraindicated if you have a pre-existing condition). If you're getting red dots under your eyes then obviously you should stop what's causing it (holding your breath during lifts).

Using a belt is creates "artificial strength" in the Kinetic chain. It's short term thinking to lift with a belt. You might be able to lift more when using a belt, but it's not helping to strengthen your core muscles at all. As soon as you stop using the belt you'll realize that you aren't as strong as you thought you were.

[velkrum]

yes, valsalva maneuver does have its time and place but are we not talking about lifting heavy ?

There are no rules for breathing during high rep work. Do what feels comfortable / natural and allows you to work efficiently.

[gringochileno]

(04-19-2012 05:25 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

(04-18-2012 10:55 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  

It's increased pressure leading to higher blood flow to your face. It's not anything to be worried about (unless you're specifically at risk for strokes). Do the red dots not go away for a while after you lift?

Yeah goes away in 3 days usually.

Yep, you have facial petechiae. It's possible that you could have allergies or a low platelet count or clotting problem that predispose you to getting them, but given your history and the fact that you only get them in the face, I think that's unlikely. You're probably just putting too much pressure on your facial capillaries and causing tiny hemorrhages. Either way it's almost certainly not anything dangerous. If you really want to get to the bottom of it you can see a dermatologist (I wouldn't).

You can try applying an ice pack to the area on and off throughout the day to see if that makes them go away sooner, but unfortunately I don't know of anything else you can do besides trying not to create so much pressure in the first place (unless something else like an allergy is causing it, in which case you would treat the underlying condition). They should always go away on their own within a few days--if they stop doing that, see a doctor.

[Soma]

(04-19-2012 11:47 AM)gringochileno Wrote:  

(04-19-2012 05:25 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

(04-18-2012 10:55 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  

It's increased pressure leading to higher blood flow to your face. It's not anything to be worried about (unless you're specifically at risk for strokes). Do the red dots not go away for a while after you lift?

Yeah goes away in 3 days usually.

Yep, you have facial petechiae. It's possible that you could have allergies or a low platelet count or clotting problem that predispose you to getting them, but given your history and the fact that you only get them in the face, I think that's unlikely. You're probably just putting too much pressure on your facial capillaries and causing tiny hemorrhages. Either way it's almost certainly not anything dangerous. If you really want to get to the bottom of it you can see a dermatologist (I wouldn't).

You can try applying an ice pack to the area on and off throughout the day to see if that makes them go away sooner, but unfortunately I don't know of anything else you can do besides trying not to create so much pressure in the first place (unless something else like an allergy is causing it, in which case you would treat the underlying condition). They should always go away on their own within a few days--if they stop doing that, see a doctor.

I've had this experience as well. My forehead is particularly susceptible to it. I've experimented a bit and, for me, it doesn't have anything to do with breathing, rather just the aggregate amount of pressure on facial capillaries beyond a certain threshold. On the road, I tried inverted pushups as a replacement for overhead press a few times - my forehead was literally purple for 3-4 days afterwards.

[HiFlo]

(04-19-2012 04:44 AM)Laser Wrote:  

(04-18-2012 10:28 PM)HiFlo Wrote:  

Exhale forcefully on the concentric (when you push, lift, heave), inhale on the eccentric (when you put the weight back down).

This is incorrect. Taking a big, deep breath and holding it throughout the lift increases the intra-thoracic pressure and subsequently the intra-abdominal pressure. This pressure acts like a pneumatic brace against the anterior portion of the spine while the erectors of the back brace it from the posterior. This increases the support of the spine, and more support means more strength. This is related to why it is good to wear a belt when training.

The belt’s purpose is to constrict the abdominals to give them something to contract against. This contraction of the abdominals with an appropriately tightened belt is like trying to increase the volume in a non-expansible container — it increases the pressure even more. Not only is it helping to increase the intra-abdominal and thoracic pressure more than without the belt, but the abdominals also contract harder into the belt to do so. More pressure is more support which means more strength to do the task at hand.

http://www.70sbig.com/blog/2009/12/belt-me-up-scotty/

Holding his breath -> increased blood pressure (possibly dangerously high levels) -> burst blood capillaries around eyes. Recurring pattern

He's not training for the powerlifting team in the olympics - how can you in good faith recommend he continue to hold his breath when he is experiencing very negative physical affects from holding his breath?

[Caligula]

During boxing training a few weeks ago I went very hard on push-ups and forgot to breathe at the end. Felt huge pressure and then got a hell of a headache.

Headache stayed with me for over a week and I took it easy on working out. Sometimes it comes back when I go hard. Was it a mini-stroke or something?

[Laser]

(04-19-2012 12:57 PM)HiFlo Wrote:  

(04-19-2012 04:44 AM)Laser Wrote:  

(04-18-2012 10:28 PM)HiFlo Wrote:  

Exhale forcefully on the concentric (when you push, lift, heave), inhale on the eccentric (when you put the weight back down).

This is incorrect. Taking a big, deep breath and holding it throughout the lift increases the intra-thoracic pressure and subsequently the intra-abdominal pressure. This pressure acts like a pneumatic brace against the anterior portion of the spine while the erectors of the back brace it from the posterior. This increases the support of the spine, and more support means more strength. This is related to why it is good to wear a belt when training.

The belt’s purpose is to constrict the abdominals to give them something to contract against. This contraction of the abdominals with an appropriately tightened belt is like trying to increase the volume in a non-expansible container — it increases the pressure even more. Not only is it helping to increase the intra-abdominal and thoracic pressure more than without the belt, but the abdominals also contract harder into the belt to do so. More pressure is more support which means more strength to do the task at hand.

http://www.70sbig.com/blog/2009/12/belt-me-up-scotty/

Holding his breath -> increased blood pressure (possibly dangerously high levels) -> burst blood capillaries around eyes. Recurring pattern

He's not training for the powerlifting team in the olympics - how can you in good faith recommend he continue to hold his breath when he is experiencing very negative physical affects from holding his breath?

I agree that in Roosh's case the valvasa maneuver may not be the best course of action. I don't know enough to diagnose his symptoms. My comment was more to the general recommendation that you should be breathing during reps. Doing so will decrease your stability, which you definitely don't want during a heavy set. Just to be clear though, I'm not advocating holding one's breath throughout the entire set, just for the duration of each rep. It's perfectly fine to breath between reps.

[Roosh]

Also it's not too common, maybe once every couple months, usually while doing squats.

[gringochileno]

(04-19-2012 05:53 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Also it's not too common, maybe once every couple months, usually while doing squats.

Do you have any allergies? If so, do the red dots coincide with when you're getting allergic symptoms?

Any watery eyes, runny nose, sneezing, itching, pain, tenderness, or rash in the area?

[el mechanico]

Those dots are for when you become a real badass. You even look mean when you sleep so you're getting close Roosh.
[attachment=5885]
See the dots above the eyes of this sheepdog? Even when he sleeps he looks awake to predators. Bad ass!