[el mechanico]

Besides Neil who was bitching about our rep system? I missed it.

[worldwidetraveler]

(03-06-2012 03:08 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Right. Whenever I see a legit post, I +1. It's an easy way to give a guy a wha's up.

That's why guys who are crying about the rep system are pussified cunts.

None of the guys here are stingy with points. So if you don't have any points, it's because you fucking suck - not because there's a system of oppression.

Jesus Christ, man. Listening to these newbies is like talking to a woman.

What a remarkable sense of entitlement they have!

Who are these guys that are crying? I haven't seen anyone crying over the rep system.

Edited: What EL Mech said.

[Mr.GM]

(03-06-2012 02:59 PM)pitt Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 02:44 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

This is a fun thread. It's really a microcosm into so many issues.

It's an issue of political governance. If Roosh wants to shut down something, he just does it. He's a dictator.

It's also an issue of working for someone else. Roosh is the boss. If the boss changes something at work, well, fuck you and deal with it.

It doesn't matter if you've made valuable contributions over the years. You're just meat that can be tossed in the trash.

Guys, that's what have a job "working for the man" is like. One day you're in. The next day, "Fuck you." You leave with nothing.

There's the issue of how real men deal with disrespect. We respect that this is Roosh's forum. So we're sorta libertarian about it. "He can do what he wants. Not going to cry over it."

It's an issue of hypocrisy. Roosh is "fighting against oppression" while he himself just disabled a feature many guys like without asking for any input. How is that not the same "oppression" he's fighting against?

I think you just said what most are afraid to speak. I thought most of us here value more freedom than anything...do we have full freedom on this forum? Its something questionable.

I posted this some days ago in the Greek Kamaki ban discussion thread :"We need to chill , we don't want police state here on RVF "
guess it applies for the current discussion as well.

[haywire]

Another Idea:

Don't know how programmatically feasible this is going to be, but how about you let people claim their own rep-points and then have an X number of people approve that for it to become legitimate? This would keep all the parties happy, those who think they deserve and those who want to payback.

Thoughts?

[MikeCF]

(03-06-2012 03:14 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Besides Neil who was bitching about our rep system? I missed it.

Newbies cried because guys with more rep points wanted a subforum.

Appealing newbies/guys with no rep points is one reason rep points have been disabled.

[Commander Shepard]

(03-06-2012 03:04 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 02:54 PM)Commander Shepard Wrote:  

He disabled a class based, hierarchical system.

Well, man, that's what game is.

The alpha male gets the women.

Life is status.

At this forum, unlike in the United States, you can work your way up to more rep points.

Contribute. Bust out data sheets. Add value.

It's not like guys are stingy with rep points.

The real issue is with the female entitlement mindset of the newbies. If you just show up, you are shit. Just like a frat brother or guy who joins the Army.

Prove yourselves.

But you guys don't wanna do that.

All you guys love bashing American women.

Yet guys who have contributed nothing expect - nay, are entitled - to the same benefits of guys who have contributed much.

What's that say about men?

American women suck because you're a bunch of entitled fucking pussies who won't work your way up.

Um, I don't need to prove myself to anyone.

I contribute to this forum because I want to. Not because I need to get some points in order to gain access to the "top tier" of an internet message board.

Also, I enjoy intelligent discussion with individuals.The seduction community does attract a lot of intelligent men. Men I can get good life advice from.


*sigh*

Yeah, this is why I can see the rep point thing getting out of hand.

Power, in any shape or form, corrupts.

Want to increase someone's entitlement/holier than thou complex on this message board? give them high rep points and have them strut around like four star generals. Mixx had a huge emotional reaction to getting his rep points taken away. Did a general just get demoted?

You mentioned the army and the frat house. Is that how the forum should operate? Are we essentially online frat boys?. Terrible paradigm to operate from if you ask me.

Jesus, I've been called noob as an insult. I think I've entered the StarCraft II message board all over again.

Honestly, I really don't care about the rep system. If having a rep system increases the quality of posts then hell, put in the rep system. But I figured I'd play devils advocate to those who feel the rep system is essential to the forum survival. I'll contribute regardless.

Forgive me, but my post, what I just said, was that beta?

[soup]

(03-06-2012 03:08 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 01:45 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Here is the best argument I can think of of keeping rep points:

It was a nice and easy way of "thanking" people.

Now if someone gives me some really good info, I have to send them a pm.

That is going to get tired real quick.

Thoughts?

Right. Whenever I see a legit post, I +1. It's an easy way to give a guy a wha's up.

That's why guys who are crying about the rep system are pussified cunts.

None of the guys here are stingy with points. So if you don't have any points, it's because you fucking suck - not because there's a system of oppression.

Jesus Christ, man. Listening to these newbies is like talking to a woman.

What a remarkable sense of entitlement they have!

Fine- keep the rep system or have a place where people can thank members on their profile.

That said, we should also implement the yea/nay per post system. There is greater value in having the competition of ideas in the open.

[Commander Shepard]

(03-06-2012 03:08 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 01:45 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Here is the best argument I can think of of keeping rep points:

It was a nice and easy way of "thanking" people.

Now if someone gives me some really good info, I have to send them a pm.

That is going to get tired real quick.

Thoughts?

Right. Whenever I see a legit post, I +1. It's an easy way to give a guy a wha's up.

That's why guys who are crying about the rep system are pussified cunts.

None of the guys here are stingy with points. So if you don't have any points, it's because you fucking suck - not because there's a system of oppression.

Jesus Christ, man. Listening to these newbies is like talking to a woman.

What a remarkable sense of entitlement they have!

Yeah, because entitlement is sooooo gender specific.

[el mechanico]

(03-06-2012 03:24 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 03:14 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Besides Neil who was bitching about our rep system? I missed it.

Newbies cried because guys with more rep points wanted a subforum.

Appealing newbies/guys with no rep points is one reason rep points have been disabled.

That's silly. I like your take on this whole thing. Even if there was a subforum and I was a newb I would try harder to get to the point of entry and not complain.

To me that subforum had to do with just anyone active here. 30 posts would be fine. But there are some gems that just can't leak to anyone passing by with bad intentions.

[drymarro]

(03-06-2012 03:42 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 03:24 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 03:14 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Besides Neil who was bitching about our rep system? I missed it.

Newbies cried because guys with more rep points wanted a subforum.

Appealing newbies/guys with no rep points is one reason rep points have been disabled.

That's silly. I like your take on this whole thing. Even if there was a subforum and I was a newb I would try harder to get to the point of entry and not complain.

To me that subforum had to do with just anyone active here. 30 posts would be fine. But there are some gems that just can't leak to anyone passing by with bad intentions.

I think my thread just bursted the bubble. I believe in a fair system where you produce quality posts for recognition.It motivated me to post better.

[FretDancer]

I knew this was gonna happen sooner or later. Arg, so many new posts I can't go through them all.

I will have to agree with Samseau's suggestion here. Adding one more restriction to that list:

- Allow rep points to be given only by members that possess a certain number of rep points.

Since there are already alot of members with a certain amount of rep points, this has potential to work well.

Either way, I'ts a good idea for Roosh to experiment with this decission. One month is nothing.

I can already see some drawbacks to this decission though (hopefully I'm wrong). For example, members will hesitate to share good knowledge regarding travel/lifestyle/game topics, like great quality data sheets, trip reports, and game techniques that work really well.

[Tuthmosis]

This is an outright RVF Civil War. Brother against brother. I, for one, am fighting to preserve this great union.

[attachment=5176]

[GunznButta]

man is this thread ON FIRE!

i'm noob enough here to have minimal rep and therefore to have no real stake in it and have enough of a "regular (non-player) life" to say i'll never be a top contributor here. anyways, here's my 0.02's worth:

i can see why roosh would want to shut the rep system down: rep inflation was getting nuts and at risk of becoming irrelevant with people starting to game it.

i can see mixx's desire to have his contributions recognized and his status maintained.

at the end of it all, the rep is nothing more than a vote for popularity and, when it comes down to it, all voting systems can be gamed. so perhaps the way to fix it isn't to look for a better voting machine but to make its mechanism more transparent (so people will know where the real value will be.) but there's also the need to make the system easy to administer as i don't think roosh is interested in spending his free time patrolling the forum.

so here goes:

everyone here has a star depending on their time on forum and/or quantity of posts. i'd say an improvement will be to use the stars in determining Rep on a sliding scale. for example, noobs would most likely be engaged in inflating reps so their +1's should be devalued accordingly while forum vets would be more informed and discriminating about posts that deserve the +1.

so, in this revised world, let's say it'll take 13 +1's from 0/1 star users to equal a "revised" Rep point while it would take 3 +1's from a 5/6 star user to equal the same "revised" Rep point (the in-betweens would be on some sliding scale.) there'll be an overall Rep # on the person's profile and if one clicks on the person's name you can get a more granular breakdown of how the guys' Rep was built -- helping out noobs with game fundamentals or dishing out high caliber info to the vets (like the ship cruise game thread)

the one external benefit in this revised system is that i think it will some people will self-select themselves out as experts in a certain aspect of game (like mixx with columbia) more quickly instead of having to make everyone plod through reams of vaguely related posts to figure out who's expert in what...

i think this can be coded without too much difficulty. a "rep" vote would look quick at the poster's status and drop a vote in the appropriate 0-6 star voter bucket (each poster gets 1 rep vote/poster/thread) once that bucket gets filled, it gets traded for a permanent "Rep" vote. the permanent "rep" vote lives on like it does now.

not perfect, but i think it'd be an improvement.

[Amour Fou]

Oh god.

I'm late to the party and by no means I have time now to answer this properly.

Just by reading these posts and me sitting here I realised:

-This forum has become more than just a hobby or a jolly passtime (for some, and now I realise, for me!). We could have political theorists studying what is going on with us. I need to spend some more time offline!

-Am I the only one that had this feeling as if you already knew how each forum member would react?

-It is in moments of crisis that people reveal their true colours.

Not much to add at this moment.

[Mr.GM]

I vote in the return of the rep sytem with limitations such as 2 points max per data sheet , only guys who posted more than 100 times could giveeceive rep points etc..

so we can get over it and stop the blood bath , as Tuthmosis pointed.

[GunznButta]

dp

[Chad Daring]

While I dont care about the rep system either way, I did like the fact that it was a pretty good indicator of who to listen too, especially as a new guy. In my first few months on this forum I'd pay more attention to guys with high scores.

That being said, I agree with the fact that the combination of inflation and popularity kind of unhinged what WAS a good system. I do agree with others though, I think guys like MiXX and G who've, if nothing else, put a lot of time into this forum, deserve to be recognized for that.

Seeing as how this community is really quite small, I think its not absurd to simply use a manual system. Give guys like MiXX and G who have gone above and beyond to not only bring invaluable data, but bring it consistently over and over again, a special title. Most forums like this have a "custom title" feature and I think using that to identify those guys who have made this community great is the answer.

This would remove the popularity contest side of things because the only guys who would get it would be those who put in the time and quality and DESERVE it. Even if a guy really did want the title just for popularity sake, he'd still have to go through all the motions and take the time to make his name known among the bulk of the members here, up to a point where where the moderators (who I believe are only Roosh and Tuth) would recognize him.

[FretDancer]

I think earned Custom Titles is a very cool idea, seconded.

[Moma]

(03-06-2012 12:39 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

There is some great opinions on here.

I was going to give a bunch of people +1.

Just playing.


I mean we have "Moma" and "Mofo". "Entropy" and "Entropy4".

Hard to keep them apart.


When they would go on a trip, they would remember things because they knew they had to come back with a Data Sheet.

No entity could ever confuse 'Moma' with 'Mofo'. I have a signature writing style that cannot be duplicated.

You make another strong point about the data sheet (where is that rep button?). When I went to Africa, I was taking notes because I knew I was bust ass wide open with that.

I knew that none of you guys in here will ever be gaming in Nigeria (well, maybe NaughtyNomad but he would never penetrate the way I can).
Hence, I have a monopoly on that.

But with no award system awaiting, I might be like fcuk it, and just chill with the few pics I took.

[el mechanico]

(03-06-2012 03:58 PM)Amour Fou Wrote:  

Oh god.

I'm late to the party and by no means I have time now to answer this properly.

Just by reading these posts and me sitting here I realised:

-This forum has become more than just a hobby or a jolly passtime (for some, and now I realise, for me!). We could have political theorists studying what is going on with us. I need to spend some more time offline!

-Am I the only one that had this feeling as if you already knew how each forum member would react?

-It is in moments of crisis that people reveal their true colours.

Not much to add at this moment.

The info on the forum is a recipe for cult status. It could even become a religion where Roosh is tax exempt and the "church" owns properties.(bars with bikinis) Think Scientology.

[soup]

This is probably one of the most valuable resources on the net, and it is in a growth cycle. We need to take advantage of this moment. Now is not a time for war. We have to stick together. Let's not turn this into an attack thread:

[Cincinnatus]

I'm curious to know whether or not MiXX would have still made so many high-quality posts had the rep system NOT been in place. I'm sure people here would still have deferred to him as a high-value contributor, high number beside his username or not.

I ask the same question of other high-rep members.

In any case, it's nice that he can't delete his previous posts. Searching through the MiXX archives via his profile = still a gold mine.

[txbeachbum]

Bottom line the Rep system was all ego driven which always fail, some members had more emotionally invested into the rep system as they may have posted information to get praise and +1 and use it as an status symbol to newer members (like who you talking to0, I have 20+ points) but it was just another status symbol..(me personally didn't care so much hell I only had 4 i think, didn't realize I had even gotten those, it doesnt mean shit)

At the end of the day the shit is called rooshvforum so he has the right to do wtf he wants, if you dont like it leave. He started the damn site that brought all of us together, pays the hosting, design, etc, maint and whatever so whatever he decides is cool, if you that damn pressed about points start ya own forum and enable the shit.

Seriously does taking down brownie points on an internet forum call for 6 pages of discussion..and we all suppose to be playas and alphas and all that other BS but alot of ya dudes is acting like straight bitches!!

Get over it..

[drymarro]

(03-06-2012 03:42 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 03:24 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 03:14 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Besides Neil who was bitching about our rep system? I missed it.

Newbies cried because guys with more rep points wanted a subforum.

Appealing newbies/guys with no rep points is one reason rep points have been disabled.

That's silly. I like your take on this whole thing. Even if there was a subforum and I was a newb I would try harder to get to the point of entry and not complain.

To me that subforum had to do with just anyone active here. 30 posts would be fine. But there are some gems that just can't leak to anyone passing by with bad intentions.

Or make it like 50 quality posts.
No rep needed just as long as they're not spamming it should be fine.

[babelfish669]

I think whats really happening here has nothing to do with the rep system, its just what happens during the natural aging of any message board. I've seen this happen many times including a forum I've owned and another I was an admin on. As the board grows, members butt heads.

Aged forums either get noisier or they die. Post count, user age, and the fact that the user hasn't said something stupid enough to get banned in that time frame usually is all that says a member is legit without further research.

Limiting registration to one day a month was really smart, I think Roosh can figure out some additional ways to keep things smooth.