[Belize King]

I've been lurking for a month straight now. I saw value in the rep system and guys never handed them out too much. I'd see value in many data sheet but no rep given to them. It's not in my place to rep anybody but when I see top players give a rep point I know the data is legit. Being on for a month I'd say there are a solid 20 players here whose info/comments holds weight. I would say allow 30 players to give out rep points and the let the list grow from there. The top dawgs rarely give the points out anyway so they can be the judge. The consensus is the rep system matters but it doesn't. I'm glad all the OG's are discussing it though.

[soup]

(03-06-2012 02:17 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

A lot of the suggestions you guys are making is just not possible with the software unless I hire a programmer to mess with the core code.

I want something more Danish-like and less American. The 1% here is headed towards oppression of the 99%. I want a flatter system that decreases e-bragging, e-power trips and e-penis slaps.

Honestly the problems started when I enable post reputation. Before that the reputation system was not causing many problems. One solution is to go back to the old system and delete all post ratings.

I really think Hencridble's idea of having a "yea" or "nea" per post option would not only stop the oppression, but would add immensely to the quality of this forum and would accelerate the evolution of game.

How much would it cost to hire a programmer? Why not make a post or button wherein people could contribute money via escrow until there's enough to pay the programmer?

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

thegmanifesto Wrote:

Am I wrong?

You're definitely not, but was asking that Beta?

[Hencredible Casanova]

I was talking with a friend in Silicon Valley last month about your forum. He's the founder of his own VC-backed company that makes social gaming apps for the iPhone. He suggested making an app for RVF or something similar to it where guys can access threads with info they can use while on dates or day gaming or at the club, etc. Basically RVF on the go. If that sounds like something you'd be interested in, I could put you two in touch.

[speakeasy]

(03-06-2012 02:15 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

I agree. After reading the proposal to start a more secure/VIP subforum largely on the basis of rep points, I was kind of half-expecting Roosh to disable them (which I understand) and also for Mixx to feel insulted by it (which I also understand).

It's something like this that makes me question a person's motives for being on the forum. Why feel the need for an exclusive club-within-a-club? That's simply an inflated sense of self-importance. Yes, that too can be part of human nature (the need to feel you're better than the next person, and be treated that way), but must the forum reflect EVERY aspect of the worst parts of our nature? I don't see the need for the "celebrity at the club" treatment. Again, it undercuts the primary purpose of the forum - sharing with any and everyone that stops by. Recognition within the larger group is one thing, but I don't even understand the suggestion of something like this.

I think you're missing the point of why a secure subforum was being discussed. The purpose wasn't to have a "club" of elites roped off from newbies. The point was to be able to share good information that could get us into trouble and needed to be hid from the googlebots and people up to no good. Afterall as we found out, even neo-nazis from Stormfront are lurking on this site. We needed a way to vet members that could be trusted and points would at least be one way.

[thegmanifesto]

(03-06-2012 02:17 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

A lot of the suggestions you guys are making is just not possible with the software unless I hire a programmer to mess with the core code.

I want something more Danish-like and less American. The 1% here is headed towards oppression of the 99%. I want a flatter system that decreases e-bragging, e-power trips and e-penis slaps.

Ha.

I kind of liked it when it was kind of a "Wild West" scenario with negative rep points.

I think I lead the league in those before they were disabled.

Quote:

Honestly the problems started when I enable post reputation. Before that the reputation system was not causing many problems. One solution is to go back to the old system and delete all post ratings.

What does this mean?

"the problems started when I enable post reputation" the star system?

For what it is worth, I actually think the forum has never been better.

When I first started, there was zero Data Sheets and people were really lazy with a ton a vague info.

Now it seems like there is some structure and force to the forum.

People argue, but people agree more too.

People are more open to different style of Game.

The "pua" dork crowd got crushed and weeded out.

Back in the day, if you said something like "I bought a girl a drink and swooped her" you had 20 idiots who had spent $4500 on a boot camp and never swooped a girl arguing with you that you spent money on her.

People are more reasonable now and less brainwashed.

The bar has been raised.

Before it was like a broke hostel forum.

Now has some real players.

Just my opinion.

[Vice]

Plenty of chick logic on display in this thread. It's not about fairness. It's not about whether a couple of members were "under-repped". It's about the net benefit for the whole forum at large. The rep point system, overall, was a success. Sure there were negatives but I could say the same thing about post counts, avatars, unique usernames, signatures, and even the country flag 'feature' that was just added.

Instead of improving the system, this arbitrary ideology of "fairness" was put into effect instead.

Althone gave plenty of suggestions earlier - allow only post-specific rep points instead of the general ones that were becoming common and cap the rep points that can be received per thread or post.

[tomtud]

(03-06-2012 02:17 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I want something more Danish-like and less American. The 1% here is headed towards oppression of the 99%. I want a flatter system that decreases e-bragging, e-power trips and e-penis slaps.

Honestly the problems started when I enable post reputation. Before that the reputation system was not causing many problems. One solution is to go back to the old system and delete all post ratings.

Interesting how we are in the middle of our own social dynamic situation whilst studying the social dynamics between the sexes. Thus it proves we are creatures of habit and this insatiable desire to be recognized above everyone else.

In China they believe modesty is a valuable character trait. So do I.

[soup]

(03-06-2012 02:27 PM)Vice Wrote:  

Plenty of chick logic on display in this thread. It's not about fairness. It's not about whether a couple of members were "under-repped". It's about the net benefit for the whole forum at large. The rep point system, overall, was a success. Sure there were negatives but I could say the same thing about post counts, avatars, unique usernames, signatures, and even the country flag 'feature' that was just added.

Instead of improving the system, this arbitrary ideology of "fairness" was put into effect instead.

Althone gave plenty of suggestions earlier - allow only post-specific rep points instead of the general ones that were becoming common and cap the rep points that can be received per thread or post.

It's not just that the rep point system was a problem. Let's get to the heart of the matter: the rep point system was not efficient enough.

There are thousands of posts on here, we need an easier way to find the valuable knowledge. Otherwise there are going to be infinite number repeat threads or low value threads getting the spot light.. the forum could turn into a tower of babel.

I vote "yea" for a "yea/nea" post rating system.

[Mr.GM]

(03-06-2012 02:26 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

The bar has been raised.

Before it was like a broke hostel forum.

Now has some real players.

Just my opinion.

That quality also allowed me to actually meet other forum members in person. It is great to see that the guy you were talking to in the forum is actually FOR REAL. What any other forum on the Internet would make this possible ?

[drymarro]

Actually I have a great solution for this. Make it a "thanks" system.


Where you can hit thanks for each post and it says:

These users have thanked this post: Drymarro, RooshV, Gmanifesto,etc.

-So you can see if people are spamming thanks for no reason.

Take the current reputation and multiply by 4(or some number) to get the current thanks someone has.
So Mixx with 104 rep would have 416 thanks. The thanks goes under the users name.
Mixx:
Thanked 312 times
Thanks 100 times(times he thanked someone else)


We use this system on a forum I'm on and it works fine.
I think it can show who's just spamming around thanks and who's actually producing quality posts.
Easy to weed out the trolls.

Please consider this.
Thank you.

[MikeCF]

I think it was a mistake.

The world is not equal. Some guys are better than the rest.

Mixx is better than most (his life is certainly more interesting than mine), yet he always helped guys out.

But now some people got their feelings hurt...so you take down Mixx?

Honestly, bro, this is like a Nietzschean short story. The strong are being attacked for the sake of the weak. You even use the same lines used when the strong are taken down. This is for a more "open" society.

You even use feminist shaming language. Men who take pride in peer recognition are now gay or want their dicks sucked by other guys.

When did taking pride in peer recognition become a bad thing? "Man is a social animal," after all, and so it's only natural to want the approval of others.

[at350zguyy]

(03-06-2012 02:32 PM)Mr.GM Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 02:26 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

The bar has been raised.

Before it was like a broke hostel forum.

Now has some real players.

Just my opinion.

That quality also allowed me to actually meet other forum members in person. It is great to see that the guy you were talking to in the forum is actually FOR REAL. What any other forum on the Internet would make this possible ?

For sure. I agree with GM here. I met Lothario and Parlay and they were every bit the rep that they built up. I know we recognize the all-stars of the forum here pretty easily, but for the up and comers i think it's a useful thing to have as well.

GMan is right. The bar has indeed been raised.

[Commander Shepard]

(03-06-2012 02:05 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 01:52 PM)Commander Shepard Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 01:38 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

Want noobs to feel pressure to contribute early on and make spot-on posts? Add rep, and give the possibility of recognition if they post a solid datasheet or other information right off the bat. Incentivize that behavior.

I'm a noob. I am not driven by rep points.
I'm driven by my desire to improve my game.

That's nice, but not everyone is like you. Most people behave differently when incentives are placed in front of them. Some of us are like you and HC-all about the right thing and altruism, posting constantly rep or no rep.

Many other people are not. For them, the fact that reputation (recognition) can come early with solid datasheets and other information is a big draw, and can catalyze more posting down the road.
People do use tangible things like this to guide their actions-its in human nature. Sure its superficial, but it is realistic.

Quote:

I mean, are there any noobs, like myself, that are working on their game to up their green number?

If you honestly do not believe that there are not quite a few people who would be significantly less inclined to put forward good datasheets/info without rep and/or other similar factors, then I don't know what to tell you.
You must live on a very altruistic planet.

Slow down. No need for snide remarks.

I never said there were not guys out there partially motivated by internet rep. Every human desires some form of social affirmation.

I just don't see any value in online handles giving me seals of approval.

But as you said, not everyone is built the same. If some people feel a sense of accomplishment in life when someone on the internet gives them a high five then so be it. Who am I to judge?

Too each his own.

If anyone wants to rep me please don't. Instead, make the check payable to Commander Shepard. Systems Alliance. or hand me your virgin sister when she turns eighteen.

[MikeCF]

This is a fun thread. It's really a microcosm into so many issues.

It's an issue of political governance. If Roosh wants to shut down something, he just does it. He's a dictator.

It's also an issue of working for someone else. Roosh is the boss. If the boss changes something at work, well, fuck you and deal with it.

It doesn't matter if you've made valuable contributions over the years. You're just meat that can be tossed in the trash.

Guys, that's what have a job "working for the man" is like. One day you're in. The next day, "Fuck you." You leave with nothing.

There's the issue of how real men deal with disrespect. We respect that this is Roosh's forum. So we're sorta libertarian about it. "He can do what he wants. Not going to cry over it."

It's an issue of hypocrisy. Roosh is "fighting against oppression" while he himself just disabled a feature many guys like without asking for any input. How is that not the same "oppression" he's fighting against?

Honestly, I'm truly digging the recent developments.

There are more principles of - what G would call capital-g Game - going on here than elsewhere.

Roosh is running things like a straight pimp.

The problem is that if you come with the pimp hand against strong guys, the strong guys will just walk.

Thus, it's also an issue of management.

If you want other superior people (and Roosh is a superior guy, whether he admits it or not) around, you can't run things unilaterally.

Lots of great stuff here. I hope the younger guys read and internalize them all.

[soup]

(03-06-2012 02:36 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

I think it was a mistake.

The world is not equal. Some guys are better than the rest.

Mixx is better than most (his life is certainly more interesting than mine), yet he always helped guys out.

But now some people got their feelings hurt...so you take down Mixx?

Honestly, bro, this is like a Nietzschean short story. The strong are being attacked for the sake of the weak. You even use the same lines used when the strong are taken down. This is for a more "open" society.

You even use feminist shaming language. Men who take pride in peer recognition are now gay or want their dicks sucked by other guys.

When did taking pride in peer recognition become a bad thing? "Man is a social animal," after all, and so it's only natural to want the approval of others.

Peer recognition is built into a Yea/Nea per post system. The person with the highest rated post(s) gets the best rep.

[tomtud]

Mike, point taken. However, do you honestly think the top 1% lose a wink of sleep if they don't get a rep point? Kudos to the person who suggested those who want to parlay their "fame" on here into creating web traffic onto their own supplemental blog may prove to be a viable option.

Should those who graciously provide heaps of information be rewarded in a way? Sure. But, it does not have to be points. As I aforementioned in a previous post, I am sure their reputations precede themselves and invitations to come hangout are plenty.

In the end, it is always better to give than to ask. The contributors will get their rewards even if points are not given.

[Commander Shepard]

(03-06-2012 02:44 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

This is a fun thread. It's really a microcosm into so many issues.

It's an issue of political governance. If Roosh wants to shut down something, he just does it. He's a dictator.

It's also an issue of working for someone else. Roosh is the boss. If the boss changes something at work, well, fuck you and deal with it.

It doesn't matter if you've made valuable contributions over the years. You're just meat that can be tossed in the trash.

Guys, that's what have a job "working for the man" is like. One day you're in. The next day, "Fuck you." You leave with nothing.

There's the issue of how real men deal with disrespect. We respect that this is Roosh's forum. So we're sorta libertarian about it. "He can do what he wants. Not going to cry over it."

It's an issue of hypocrisy. Roosh is "fighting against oppression" while he himself just disabled a feature many guys like without asking for any input. How is that not the same "oppression" he's fighting against?

Honestly, I'm truly digging the recent developments.

There are more principles of - what G would call capital-g Game - going on here than elsewhere.

Roosh is running things like a straight pimp.

The problem is that if you come with the pimp hand against strong guys, the strong guys will just walk.

Thus, it's also an issue of management.

If you want other superior people (and Roosh is a superior guy, whether he admits it or not) around, you can't run things unilaterally.

Lots of great stuff here. I hope the younger guys read and internalize them all.

He disabled a class based, hierarchical system. That is not very capitalistic of him. If anything, he is disabling the a system that would cause the oppression he is fighting? Not sure if Roosh is a left wing activist. Already we had a proposal for people with high rep counts to have a special forum. It is like us noobs are stuck in Liberty City while High Reppers are lounging in their clubs on Miami Beach.

[Vice]

(03-06-2012 02:17 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

A lot of the suggestions you guys are making is just not possible with the software unless I hire a programmer to mess with the core code.

MyBB is a pretty popular forum platform. Plenty of plugins out there.

Here, took me 2 minutes of Google searching of alternate systems.

Thanks system: community.mybb.com/thread-59652.html
Awards system: community.mybb.com/thread-38904.html
Min. Reputation: community.mybb.com/thread-113206.html
Profile Comments: community.mybb.com/thread-51431.html

Even if you can't find a good rep plugin alternative to the default rep system in MyBB, just get a programmer to get it created. There's no need to tinker with the core code...

[drymarro]

(03-06-2012 02:56 PM)Vice Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 02:17 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

A lot of the suggestions you guys are making is just not possible with the software unless I hire a programmer to mess with the core code.

MyBB is a pretty popular forum platform. Plenty of plugins out there.

Here, took me 2 minutes of Google searching of alternate systems.

Thanks system: community.mybb.com/thread-59652.html
Awards system: community.mybb.com/thread-38904.html
Min. Reputation: community.mybb.com/thread-113206.html
Profile Comments: community.mybb.com/thread-51431.html

Even if you can't find a good rep plugin alternative to the default rep system in MyBB, just get a programmer to get it created. There's no need to tinker with the core code...

thank you for supporting my idea. can we get some more voice on my idea for a system?

[pitt]

(03-06-2012 02:44 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

This is a fun thread. It's really a microcosm into so many issues.

It's an issue of political governance. If Roosh wants to shut down something, he just does it. He's a dictator.

It's also an issue of working for someone else. Roosh is the boss. If the boss changes something at work, well, fuck you and deal with it.

It doesn't matter if you've made valuable contributions over the years. You're just meat that can be tossed in the trash.

Guys, that's what have a job "working for the man" is like. One day you're in. The next day, "Fuck you." You leave with nothing.

There's the issue of how real men deal with disrespect. We respect that this is Roosh's forum. So we're sorta libertarian about it. "He can do what he wants. Not going to cry over it."

It's an issue of hypocrisy. Roosh is "fighting against oppression" while he himself just disabled a feature many guys like without asking for any input. How is that not the same "oppression" he's fighting against?

I think you just said what most are afraid to speak. I thought most of us here value more freedom than anything...do we have full freedom on this forum? Its something questionable.

[MikeCF]

(03-06-2012 02:51 PM)tomtud Wrote:  

Mike, point taken. However, do you honestly think the top 1% lose a wink of sleep if they don't get a rep point?

Roosh's decision elevates the interests of the talentless and non-contributing lurkers over those who contribute.

You can't see why that might be a problem?

[MikeCF]

(03-06-2012 02:54 PM)Commander Shepard Wrote:  

He disabled a class based, hierarchical system.

Well, man, that's what game is.

The alpha male gets the women.

Life is status.

At this forum, unlike in the United States, you can work your way up to more rep points.

Contribute. Bust out data sheets. Add value.

It's not like guys are stingy with rep points.

The real issue is with the female entitlement mindset of the newbies. If you just show up, you are shit. Just like a frat brother or guy who joins the Army.

Prove yourselves.

But you guys don't wanna do that.

All you guys love bashing American women.

Yet guys who have contributed nothing expect - nay, are entitled - to the same benefits of guys who have contributed much.

What's that say about men?

American women suck because you're a bunch of entitled fucking pussies who won't work your way up.

[WanderingSoul]

(03-06-2012 02:36 PM)drymarro Wrote:  

Actually I have a great solution for this. Make it a "thanks" system.


Where you can hit thanks for each post and it says:

These users have thanked this post: Drymarro, RooshV, Gmanifesto,etc.

-So you can see if people are spamming thanks for no reason.

Take the current reputation and multiply by 4(or some number) to get the current thanks someone has.
So Mixx with 104 rep would have 416 thanks. The thanks goes under the users name.
Mixx:
Thanked 312 times
Thanks 100 times(times he thanked someone else)


We use this system on a forum I'm on and it works fine.
I think it can show who's just spamming around thanks and who's actually producing quality posts.
Easy to weed out the trolls.

Please consider this.
Thank you.

I think this is a great idea. I also have seen this on forums (WF I figure most have seen it on) and think it works well. Then people still get acknowledgement for their work and experience, but it isn't carried around under their avatar and wouldn't be a popularity contest.

Also, it is great for helping newbies see not just who, but WHAT is a good contribution to the forum.

It also would still encourage people to post data sheets, which IMO is the number one detriment to eliminating the rep system. I posted a super detailed data sheet on Chiang Mai when I first registered here because I didn't want to be a mooch and I wanted to get some rep points to up my social status around here. Now that I have been on the forum daily for about 4 months, I would/will post data sheets regardless if there is a rep system or not because this forum is awesome, but it definitely contributed to me creating such a long and detailed data sheet when I first joined.

I think this is the best solution mentioned so far.

[MikeCF]

(03-06-2012 01:45 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Here is the best argument I can think of of keeping rep points:

It was a nice and easy way of "thanking" people.

Now if someone gives me some really good info, I have to send them a pm.

That is going to get tired real quick.

Thoughts?

Right. Whenever I see a legit post, I +1. It's an easy way to give a guy a wha's up.

That's why guys who are crying about the rep system are pussified cunts.

None of the guys here are stingy with points. So if you don't have any points, it's because you fucking suck - not because there's a system of oppression.

Jesus Christ, man. Listening to these newbies is like talking to a woman.

What a remarkable sense of entitlement they have!