Dating Guide for Mainland China

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Dating Guide for Mainland China - Fortis - 01-11-2016

Uh, balls. That was sorta fucked up.

Eddie, how many dates has it been?

I smashed a Chinese virgin and it went like this:

First date. 30 minutes pizza. Just light chatting and such. She let me hug her so I knew she was feeling me

2nd date: dinner at my place. Got her really turned on via touching and making out but I didn't close her because she was still uncomfortable.

3rd date: same thing as second date but escalate further and closed cuz I knew she was down.

Honestly you can't treat the process too differently from smashing a non-virgin but I'd say some key differences are:

1. She will be uncomfortable with her body and sex.

2. You can be a lot more beta than normal and she'll be ok with it since she probably isn't used to cold alpha dudes running game on her.

3. Comfort is important. At some point while making out she may get scared and say something like "this is happening too fast" so be ready. Don't over think it.

Dating Guide for Mainland China - Fast Eddie - 01-13-2016

Fuck, yeah BDN's post scared the shit out of me [Image: amazed.gif]

lol. I certainly hope that doesn't happen to me, I dread the thought of having to navigate the Chinese hospital environment.

Good stuff Fortis, I'm surprised it only took you 3 dates. How old was the girl? This one is 18 and of course still lives with her parents, so something tells me it's gonna take considerably more than 3 to seal the deal, especially as I've already burned through two just to hold hands for a few minutes. But she already agreed to come over to my place to watch a movie for the third date, so hopefully progress will be made.

Quote: (01-10-2016 09:23 AM)worldtraveler3 Wrote:

Why would you wanna go for a Virgin with no experience in sex? You looking to wife up?

Why would I wanna go for a really cute, 18 year old who hasn't been soiled by the musty ballsacks of other men? I'm gonna need to think about that and get back to you.

Dating Guide for Mainland China - Lian - 01-19-2016

Quote: (01-10-2016 12:20 AM)Fast Eddie Wrote:

Any Chinese-virgin game advice? Trying to work an 18 year old 8.5 who never even had a boyfriend before. Already went on a first date with her to see a movie and eat sushi. I've previously banged one Chinese virgin, but she was an exchange student in the US and I was a virgin myself at that point, so as you can imagine that took forever. I'm willing to put time into this one as well, since this girl is really fuking cute and has my favorite Japanese style fashion sense, but at the same time I don't want to inadvertently friend-zone myself by going too slow. Not sure what the right balance is between scaring the girl off and appearing too beta for lack of a better word.

Dude, why so keen to take the chick's virginity if you don't plan on being with her long-term. Come on.

Dating Guide for Mainland China - Suits - 01-19-2016

Quote: (01-19-2016 01:33 PM)Lian Wrote:

Quote: (01-10-2016 12:20 AM)Fast Eddie Wrote:

Any Chinese-virgin game advice? Trying to work an 18 year old 8.5 who never even had a boyfriend before. Already went on a first date with her to see a movie and eat sushi. I've previously banged one Chinese virgin, but she was an exchange student in the US and I was a virgin myself at that point, so as you can imagine that took forever. I'm willing to put time into this one as well, since this girl is really fuking cute and has my favorite Japanese style fashion sense, but at the same time I don't want to inadvertently friend-zone myself by going too slow. Not sure what the right balance is between scaring the girl off and appearing too beta for lack of a better word.

Dude, why so keen to take the chick's virginity if you don't plan on being with her long-term. Come on.

Why are girls so keen to let me pay for every date if they don't plan on being with me long-term? I mean, come on.

Dating Guide for Mainland China - Lian - 01-19-2016

Quote: (01-19-2016 11:28 PM)Suits Wrote:

Quote: (01-19-2016 01:33 PM)Lian Wrote:

Quote: (01-10-2016 12:20 AM)Fast Eddie Wrote:

Any Chinese-virgin game advice? Trying to work an 18 year old 8.5 who never even had a boyfriend before. Already went on a first date with her to see a movie and eat sushi. I've previously banged one Chinese virgin, but she was an exchange student in the US and I was a virgin myself at that point, so as you can imagine that took forever. I'm willing to put time into this one as well, since this girl is really fuking cute and has my favorite Japanese style fashion sense, but at the same time I don't want to inadvertently friend-zone myself by going too slow. Not sure what the right balance is between scaring the girl off and appearing too beta for lack of a better word.

Dude, why so keen to take the chick's virginity if you don't plan on being with her long-term. Come on.

Why are girls so keen to let me pay for every date if they don't plan on being with me long-term? I mean, come on.

Maybe because you're not worthy of a long-term investment on their part.

Do I throw a Roosh .gif in now as well?

Dating Guide for Mainland China - atlant - 01-20-2016

Maybe not such a good idea to get all preachy on established members 14 posts into your RVF career.

Dating Guide for Mainland China - RichieP - 01-20-2016

Since when does first time sex == start of a LTR? lol

Dating Guide for Mainland China - Suits - 01-22-2016

Quote: (01-19-2016 01:33 PM)Lian Wrote:

Quote: (01-10-2016 12:20 AM)Fast Eddie Wrote:

Any Chinese-virgin game advice? Trying to work an 18 year old 8.5 who never even had a boyfriend before. Already went on a first date with her to see a movie and eat sushi. I've previously banged one Chinese virgin, but she was an exchange student in the US and I was a virgin myself at that point, so as you can imagine that took forever. I'm willing to put time into this one as well, since this girl is really fuking cute and has my favorite Japanese style fashion sense, but at the same time I don't want to inadvertently friend-zone myself by going too slow. Not sure what the right balance is between scaring the girl off and appearing too beta for lack of a better word.

Dude, why so keen to take the chick's virginity if you don't plan on being with her long-term. Come on.

Maybe because she's not worthy of a long-term investment on his part.

Dating Guide for Mainland China - worldtraveler3 - 01-22-2016

you can take a girl's virginity, doesnt mean you gotta be with her long term. all depends on other aspects of you relationship with her.

Dating Guide for Mainland China - marinhogomes - 01-22-2016

I've went to China, I was in Shangai, and I think they are the worst looking Asian chicks I have ever seen.

One of my best friends is Chinese, he married this girl that is supposed to be attractive, but in my opinion she's not.

The street talent is terrible. Did not turn my head once for any chic I seen in the place.

They just have this poor Asian look. Most girls in Shangai were like 6 and that's it.

It's not that I don't like Asian chicks, I had sex with Korean, Japanese, Thai, Philipines and Chinese. They are feminine, nice, loyal.

And for some weird reason I could not find any attractive girls in China at all, maybe I wasn't looking. But I have no desires in ever going back for the girls.

Japan was a completely different story. Spent 22 days in Asia. And 6 days in China, and it was bad.

Dating Guide for Mainland China - Suits - 01-22-2016

^China is absolutely the bottom of the barrel for women in Asia. You come here for the business opportunities, not the ladies.

That being said, if you don't have high standards (I don't), there's lots of fun to be had.

Dating Guide for Mainland China - worldtraveler3 - 01-22-2016

In terms of street talent, you may have better luck in Hong Kong. The city is more concentrated and you are more likely to see them walking around, especially so if you go to places like lkf. All depends on your style and the people you are with. Go on the mtr during the day you will see plenty of hotties, especially the office areas around central and admiralty. Dressed sexy and classy. Some may be secretaries at banks and some might be career type bankers if you don't mind that. secretaries might be a good option as they don't work as much although the career types can be more direct and to the point(i.e. Less playing games with you). There are considerably more talent on the expat side as well compared with mainland, although the hotter ones are more likely coupled up than in the west. Remember these girls got nothing much to do and they either turn into career girls or couple up ( shopping, the main activity for Chinese, gets old after a few weeks). For a word financial center, ( comparable to Tokyo nyc), the expat areas are actually very small in Hong Kong. (Probably 2-3 subway stops around central, no one hardly lives on the other side of the habor despite it being significantly larger). Hence you go to the same places and stay in the same areas as everyone else, but city is big enough to run game compared to small towns in the west.

Another good option is actually the app Happn in HK, as you are all pretty much all in the same places and the list is huge. A lot easier to match with someone compared to spread out cities. Girls on there are older though ( a lot 30s, those girls can be fashion types of finance types). You probably shouldn't ltr these girls due to there age, but they may be dtf pretty easily. Having a couple of mini relationships with these types while you look for other girls wouldn't hurt.

Shanghai on the other hand is a lot more spread out and especially so in nightlife. The bars and clubs around hengshan road are taxi rides apart. You gotta know which bars to go. In the day time you may hardly see any hotties in the winter due to the amount of layers they are wearing. I'm not sure what time of the year u went, but in the summer you do see a lot more hotties with nice bodies walking around public transportation or main shopping areas. They speak less English so you gotta find ones who have dealt with foreigners or learn mandarin.

Dating Guide for Mainland China - Fast Eddie - 01-23-2016

China is worse than Japan and Korea, that much is unarguable. Probably Mongolia as well, although I don't have enough exposure to the latter to say that with any certainty.

But that's it. Chinese girls are leagues and bounds better than anything SEA has to offer. In fact, if you look at the hottest girls in any SEA country chances are they're hot because they're either ethnic Chinese or have heavy Chinese admixture.

Asia is a big place. Bottom of the barrel Northeast Asians (Chinese) are still way better than anything you'll find outside of NEA.

Dating Guide for Mainland China - Global Entry - 01-24-2016

Suits, I really don't know where you get this stuff from. Bottom of the barrel in all of Asia? - a country of 1.5 billion certainly must have some talent. Maybe the avg girl walking around on the street in BJ isn't great, especially because the pollution and diet appears to destroy complexions - but why go for the average girls, anyway. Top end competes with anywhere in the world. Where have you been in Asia (I'm not even going to get into the fact that Asia stretches to the mediterranean, technically)? India? Sri Lanka? Laos? Bangladesh? Rather than throwing out a blanket statement, perhaps specify which countries is it ranking below? Where have you spent a lot of time in China? Have you been around central China. And I guess finally, what do you like? Are you into big asses, tits? What is it thats driving these statements? I hope, given your sentiments, and the fact that you put up with BJ pollution, you're raking in big RMB each month, since the only reason to be there is for business opportunity.

I can understand why the Brazilian dude above wasn't into China - perhaps he's into curves and China can for the most part be lacking there.

Its an epidemic of foreign guys dating down in China tho, for sure. Even friends of mine who make good money and are decent looking tend to date down - thats much more about an inability to really assimilate well into the culture, which is one of the tenets of Kai's data sheet.

Personally, on my recent trip to Korea, while there were some good looking girls walking around, it wasn't stellar and some of the best looking groups of girls I saw were Chinese tourists.

Dating Guide for Mainland China - RichieP - 01-24-2016

Curious to hear why you say that Suits - what criteria are you judging the talent there by?

I'm inclined to agree, but haven't fully formed my thoughts around this yet.

Dating Guide for Mainland China - TravelerKai - 01-24-2016

Marin went to the only tier 1 city in China that barely ranks in the top 10 of prettiest Chinese women, only to confirm what everyone knew for many, many years. Shanghai women are known for being the biggest gold diggers in China. They are known for being very average with the biggest expectations in China. He spent 6 days there and confirmed what everyone already knew.

Case closed. Move on..... Shanghai is not even in the top 5 best cities for women.

Suits barely likes Chinese women and would never even marry one. Take his input with a grain a salt. He pretty much hates them and just hates fucks them if anything.

Guys working China, need to read my guide all the way and read this thread completely. Failure to do so will result in poor results. I will say, Shanghai is for advanced or richer players. The women are not worth the effort honestly. Never have been.

You must immerse yourself if you want 8-10s on an automatic level.

Be careful of unicorns. One RVF member found one too fast already. I warned you guys about this. Some of them will let you have gf on the side no problem. China is full of them. If you are not ready for these, proceed with caution. You may not be ready for that.

Dating Guide for Mainland China - ball dont lie - 01-24-2016

Quote: (01-22-2016 03:52 PM)marinhogomes Wrote:

I've went to China, I was in Shangai, and I think they are the worst looking Asian chicks I have ever seen.

The street talent is terrible. Did not turn my head once for any chic I seen in the place.

They just have this poor Asian look. Most girls in Shanghai were like 6 and that's it.

There some truth to this in every city in Mainland China. People are poor for the most part. In bigger cities (more than 5 million people) there are obviously good looking people, how could there not be. The issue is: most people you walk past are ugly. Life beats them down, they have bad genetics, they lacked good nutrition when young or when the mother was pregnant, they work long hours, etc. The good looking girls know they are good looking in any city in China. When they look out the window of their boyfriends BMW/Audi6 they see millions of really unattractive, beaten down people. Life is hard here.

I was walking to this spa I like to go to in the winter near my place for the sauna and I walked past this guy waiting for the bus, he was screaming into his cellphone and then started crying, he looked broken. He was wearing ragged looking clothes and it was cold as fuck out, -25C. This kind of society does not produce hot girls. Ive seen a lot of California Asians and the girls look way better, because life is easier, they don't have to wait outside in the wind and -25C for their bus every morning and night, they eat better food. All these things lead to lots of unattractive people here in China. Its like this all over Asia, probably less so in Japan and S.Korea, not surprisingly the girls there look better on average and have more better looking girls. Girls that are 5's in China would be 6's or 7's if born in the states and had a feminine mother to teach them how to dress and have a better haircut (girls here mostly have ugly hairstyles - think terrible bangs that go right down to their eyes, covering their eyebrows - though I really like the thick, black hair itself

Chinese girls really shine in the summer when they wear their tight cotton 10 dollar dresses and their water bras. Girls here are flat for the most part. Through genetics I have a big chest and lift, many times I fuck with girls on dates about my chest is bigger than theirs, they should start lifting with me. But in the summer, wearing their cute thin dresses with their thick bras, its a sea of 5's and 6's. If you are cool with thin, cute 6's, its party time.

All the hot girls Ive met in NE china where I live have something off about them. Attitude, judgmental, picky, their beauty comes from a boob job, new nose and double eyelid surgery, etc. Ive escaped some near marriages to 9s that had phds, money. Once I had the time to reflect, I would have hated marrying those girls. I also don't have the rock solid frame necessary to get into a marriage. For a relationship I can also skip out ,but in marriage that card is gone, especially with kids.

Dating Guide for Mainland China - Fortis - 01-25-2016

I'm laughing at Hong Kong for good looking girls. I've been to Hong Kong a few times during the day and I can't remember a single good looking girl being out during the day. Could be different at night, but I was not impressed with Hong Kong--but I am not impressed with the looks of Cantonese girls in general. As far as Indos and Pinays in Hong Kong go, why the hell would I go to China for Indos and Pinays?

I'm with Global It all depends on how you feel about the average chinese girl anyway. If you're looking for huge tits and asses then china is definitely not where you want to be. I Don't mind medium to smallish tits and asses in china becuase the girls tend to be far more pleasant than their physically endowed sisters in the west. Yeah, the genetics thing is true, but I just see that as a part of the game.The average girl in most countries isn't much to look at, but I think a cute chinese girl isn't that hard to find in Shenzhen.

However, Shenzhen does have a huge advantage over other Tier-1 Chinese cities: it is close to Hunan, Hubei and Sichuan. I find Hunan, Hubei and Sichuan girls to be the best looking ones I've seen so far and Shenzhen has them out in droves.

BJ is reportedly fully of ugly girls from hebei and Henan, so I can't dispute that. As I said in another post, I find that those girls look like those troll dolls that were the craze when I was young.

But yeah, I'm not really sure why dudes are surprised that china is just bustling with 9s and 10s everywhere. Please show me a country where 9s and 10s are the average?

Dating Guide for Mainland China - Fortis - 01-25-2016

Quote: (01-13-2016 10:29 AM)Fast Eddie Wrote:

Fuck, yeah BDN's post scared the shit out of me lol. I certainly hope that doesn't happen to me, I dread the thought of having to navigate the Chinese hospital environment.

Good stuff Fortis, I'm surprised it only took you 3 dates. How old was the girl? This one is 18 and of course still lives with her parents, so something tells me it's gonna take considerably more than 3 to seal the deal, especially as I've already burned through two just to hold hands for a few minutes. But she already agreed to come over to my place to watch a movie for the third date, so hopefully progress will be made.

Quote: (01-10-2016 09:23 AM)worldtraveler3 Wrote:

Why would you wanna go for a Virgin with no experience in sex? You looking to wife up?

Why would I wanna go for a really cute, 18 year old who hasn't been soiled by the musty ballsacks of other men? I'm gonna need to think about that and get back to you.

This girl is 19 and lives at the local university dorms, so it wasn't all that hard. As I said though, I could tell she really liked me.

As far as the question about why dudes want to fuck 18 year old virgins........Are we seriously asking that? Give me an 18 year old virgin over a 28 year old soul-killed office worker any day. Lack of sexual experience aside, the 18 year old isn't going to have all those awful, manhating habits that a 24+ year old office drone will have.

Dating Guide for Mainland China - atlant - 01-25-2016

Judging a city's quality of girls by the ones you see out during the day is a fallacy I see here constantly. If I was to go by the girls I saw during the day then no country in Asia would have more than a handful of 7s living in them.

The hot girls come out at night, whether in Taiwan, HK or China...and that's the only thing that really matters.

Dating Guide for Mainland China - Fortis - 01-25-2016

Fair enough, I don't know HK so well, but I don't like HK for reasons beyond the women. I won't spend my time talking about that.

Now, onto the point about the "hot" girls being out at night.

I'm not quite in agreement with you there, at least in Shenzhen. Cocopark (one of the major nightlife areas in shenzhen) is definitely not attracting the best looking chinese girls at night. My friends and I go out there and sometimes play a game "is that chick ugly or is she hideous." The night life quality in shenzhen is really bad in my opinion. The hottest girls out at night tend to come with their huge groups of friends sit at a table with the orbiters, boyfriends and play the dice game. The rest of the Chinese crowd there are between 4-6 and older careerist type chicks. Sure, you can smash them, but it's whatever. Do you really want to come to china and bang the same girls you hated back home with the only difference being that they speak broken english and have almond-shaped eyes? Me? Nope.

If I were to come into shenzhen for a few days and wanted to get laid I wouldn't go out to cocopark or bother with night game for anything other than getting wasted and enjoying myself.. I'd fire up wechat nearby or walk around the huge mall in Futian and try my luck there. YOu could get a better looking girl with less effort and less drama.

if you go to the right area (certain spots in nanshan, futian or luohu district) you'll see tons of hot girls in summer skirts running around going about their daily lives in the day time.

Global entry and I got lunch in Futian and we were constantly turning going "oh shit, look!" and seeing good looking chinese girls while the sun was up.

This isn't USA where a lot of hot girls are all about the club. Most Chinese girls I run into don't even chill at the clubs like that. it isn't like USA where people are looking to hit up the bar on the weekend and get wasted and hook up with a new man every week.

I don't know about Japan or Korea, but in Shenzhen the hottest girls are definitely not out at night looking to get swooped like they might be in USA.

Dating Guide for Mainland China - dispenser - 01-25-2016

Quote: (01-24-2016 07:53 AM)Global Entry Wrote:

(...)
Personally, on my recent trip to Korea, while there were some good looking girls walking around, it wasn't stellar and some of the best looking groups of girls I saw were Chinese tourists.

I don't disagree with your overall point, but those tourists were likely rich.
Which in China means they are the daughters of what the West would call "trophy wives," but which China just calls "wives."
There's a genetic bias towards attractiveness and good health in Chinese tourists.

(No bias towards manners, though.)

Dating Guide for Mainland China - atlant - 01-25-2016

Quote: (01-25-2016 12:51 AM)Fortis Wrote:

Fair enough, I don't know HK so well, but I don't like HK for reasons beyond the women. I won't spend my time talking about that.

Now, onto the point about the "hot" girls being out at night.

I'm not quite in agreement with you there, at least in Shenzhen. Cocopark (one of the major nightlife areas in shenzhen) is definitely not attracting the best looking chinese girls at night. My friends and I go out there and sometimes play a game "is that chick ugly or is she hideous." The night life quality in shenzhen is really bad in my opinion. The hottest girls out at night tend to come with their huge groups of friends sit at a table with the orbiters, boyfriends and play the dice game. The rest of the Chinese crowd there are between 4-6 and older careerist type chicks. Sure, you can smash them, but it's whatever. Do you really want to come to china and bang the same girls you hated back home with the only difference being that they speak broken english and have almond-shaped eyes? Me? Nope.

If I were to come into shenzhen for a few days and wanted to get laid I wouldn't go out to cocopark or bother with night game for anything other than getting wasted and enjoying myself.. I'd fire up wechat nearby or walk around the huge mall in Futian and try my luck there. YOu could get a better looking girl with less effort and less drama.

if you go to the right area (certain spots in nanshan, futian or luohu district) you'll see tons of hot girls in summer skirts running around going about their daily lives in the day time.

Global entry and I got lunch in Futian and we were constantly turning going "oh shit, look!" and seeing good looking chinese girls while the sun was up.

This isn't USA where a lot of hot girls are all about the club. Most Chinese girls I run into don't even chill at the clubs like that. it isn't like USA where people are looking to hit up the bar on the weekend and get wasted and hook up with a new man every week.

I don't know about Japan or Korea, but in Shenzhen the hottest girls are definitely not out at night looking to get swooped like they might be in USA.

I agree with you - as we all know the hottest girls in China often tend to be found at tables and in tight knit groups. And many others possibly even never go out at night. Foreigner chasers are going to be trash rejected by local guys for the most part, this is the same everywhere too.

But my point was that I find it pretty bizarre when entire cities are seemingly written off based on what you see on the street in an afternoon. So there'll be comments like marinhogomes' who says he "didn't even turn his head once" implying that Shanghai has few hot girls. Now I haven't been there yet but that seems like a pretty premature judgment to make. I certainly almost never turn my head in Taipei (the area around Zhongxiao Dunhua being the only exception) and I think most guys here who have been to Taiwan can agree that there's no shortage of attractive girls in this country.

Then again I also very rarely do daygame so I've gotten used to this dichotomy and don't care much about it. To get access to the really hot girls, social circle and language skills are key, as usual TravelerKai is spot on there.

Dating Guide for Mainland China - Fortis - 01-25-2016

^ Oh, I see where you're going there. That is true and I'm guilty of doing the same thing as that guy.
I should give Hk a few more runs before I write it off like that.

I do agree that beyond daygame, night game or online game that learning Chinese is a huge steroid in China. Just being a laowai who speaks solid chinese seems to go super far here. A lot of the foreign guys in shenzhen who are tagging the top talent are dudes who speak intermediate or above chinese. I have the odd friend here who speaks 0 chinese and smashes hot girls but he's loaded, speaks a few other languages and is a good looking dude who probably can pull with no problem in most countries he's visited.

AS far as Shanghai goes, I know quite a few players (non-rvf guys) who've sent me photos of the talent there and I can say that I've been pretty impressed with what these guys are hitting. The girls dress nicely, look good (if you're not fucking peasant chicks, but who comes to china to fuck ugly peasants?) but the problem I keep hearing about is that the Shanghaiese girls are really, really catty and take that Chinese princess thing very seriously. You'll be expected to shell out on excessively expensive dates and other things if your game isn't tight. Obviously, that last thing shouldn't be that big of a concern to guys rolling around on this forum, but it is something to keep in mind.

I think Eddie is in SH, perhaps he can shed some light on the situation for foreigners on the ground.

But yeah, I guess where I was taking issue was the whole "the hot girls come out at night." I do agree that cute girls are about at night, but getting at them (as a guy rolling solo) is a whole different beast. I've never seen a foreigner crack open a chinese mixed set where he didn't know at least one dude in that group.

Dating Guide for Mainland China - Global Entry - 01-25-2016

One suggestion for the SH crowd would be to keep a close eye on transplants, especially the very recent arrivals. SH like SZ (and BJ) is full of girls from other provinces. Recent arrivals won't have the "I'm Shanghai-ese, worship me" attitude that many of the long-term residents or the locals will have thats turning off so many of you guys (personally, I expect some of these shit tests and nonsense from very high end girls who have access to money - its just normal, and at least they are worth it until you get them undressed, after which time, at least normally in China, the shit flips and you can chop her up and she'll still chase you for a while).

While in BJ, the many of the northern girls are transplants from places where people aren't good looking (Henan and Hebei), there are girls from provinces like Shandong and northern cities like Shenyang and Harbin that have beautiful girls. Shenyang is purported a shitty, dying city, but I've had a lot of luck with good looking Shenyang girls, both in the USA and in China.

Shanghai is more likely to collect girls from Fujian, Jiangsu, Zhejiang, and central Chinese provinces like Hubei and Sichuan/CQ (Sichuan has a huge mostly poor population, and its diaspora is seemingly everywhere). Just anecdotally, at the VC conference I went to in BJ two weeks or so ago, I spent a good amount of time talking to a cute, sweet personality BJ born girl living in SH. She's a professional, working in private equity, and her personalty hadn't flipped at all yet, seemingly - she's only lived in SH for four months, but she hasn't caught the disease yet. Given the huge influx of people every day in SH, to say in one of the world's largest cities that you can't make it happen, well, that seems to me to be more an issue of effort. Whether you'd be better off in Xiamen, or SZ, or Chengdu, well, thats based on the whole situation, where your earnings come from, how much you need to live in comfort, and even your ability to integrate into Chinese society - SH is easier for expats than SZ in many ways, for sure.