[Samseau]

Openers don't get you laid. The whole, "Direct or Indirect" is a bunch of shit. It doesn't matter for more than 5% of the pickup.

Openers don't matter except as a way to segue into conversation. Giving a girl a complement is probably the least interesting thing you could say to most girls, who have been told they are pretty over 10,000 times before she's hit 18. That's why I think direct is bullshit. But even still, just open by saying whatever you feel like saying.

Direct, indirect, what-fucking-ever - none of it matters when it comes to getting the bang. On a forum of newbies, the most discussed part of pickup is the opener. This is telling.

[Iceinthewater]

(12-19-2011 10:30 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Openers don't get you laid.

Gotta start somewhere.

Quote:

The whole, "Direct or Indirect" is a bunch of shit. It doesn't matter for more than 5% of the pickup. Openers don't matter except as a way to segue into conversation.

Matters if you want to start convo's with women. Matters if you don't like to waste your time.

Quote:

Giving a girl a complement is probably the least interesting thing you could say to most girls,

The opener is not interesting or uninteresting. Your vibe is what's interesting. Amour Fou hit it on the head. If you come with a good vibe, you are interesting.

Quote:

who have been told they are pretty over 10,000 times before she's hit 18.

Not true. Every guy thinks this, and that's why they avoid approaching in the first place.

I realized this when I approached a woman who is a well-known model, and she said was "I never get approached like that. Guys usually just stare."

This is the unanimous experience of women I've met and dated. They get stares and weird excuses to talk (indirect done the WRONG WAY). They don't get genuine, warm direct approaches, OR fun witty indirect approaches.

Quote:

That's why I think direct is bullshit.

Have you tried it?

Quote:

But even still, just open by saying whatever you feel like saying.

Totally agree. Takes time to build that kind of confidence though. Believing that is tough for a guy just starting out. Again, gotta start somewhere.

Quote:

Direct, indirect, what-fucking-ever - none of it matters when it comes to getting the bang. On a forum of newbies, the most discussed part of pickup is the opener. This is telling.

Batata wasn't asking how to open - he was sharing a technique that was working for him, probably hoping it could help someone else.

Some dismissed it based on hypothetical speculation. My point is direct works fine if done right.

OP should keep doing what works for him, and try other stuff too.

Anyways if I haven't made my point by now I've failed lol. Gotta get some actual work done now SMH. Enjoyed the debate!

[Amour Fou]

(12-19-2011 10:15 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(12-19-2011 09:52 PM)Amour Fou Wrote:  

my 2 cents:

I am gradually coming to the understanding that what is most important while opening and carrying on with convo is the right vibe and frame. Vibe communicates much more than the actual words, that come secondary to that. You can really open with anything and talk about anything, as long as you ooze confidence and control.

The words themselves don't bear much meaning...

While I sorta agree with this, I think you're automatically elevating a woman's power over you by conceding that she's "the best" at anything (in this case, looking good). She's done nothing and she's already getting a massive gift--in the form of an ego boosting compliment--from you. This subcommunicates all sorts of stuff, but probably most importantly, that you don't see hot girls often enough not to care. The hotter the girl the louder her insecurity nags her. You need her to wonder what you think about her, at least for a while, not advertise it straight up.

As much as I know (from experience) that going direct can work--and that most of what matters is body language and delivery--I think that you're better off, 90 percent of the time, letting that very body language and delivery say that you think she's attractive. Mystery and intrigue are half the battle with these broads, you don't want to annihilate that before you even get started. All of this, of course, is early-2000s-style Game 101.

What I think is different is: that direct game works for a certain subset of men and, even for them, in a tiny subset of situations. I think that, generally speaking, you can't go wrong with some type of indirect game. You definitely can go wrong going direct. I'm more-than-willing to take risks, but going that direct just seems reckless. It's kamikaze-style game that might kill someone some of the time, but is going to unnecessarily cost you notches. You can certainly keep direct game in your quill, but you need to know that it's not going to be your go-to weapon.

I find this a very rich discussion.

Quote:

I think you're automatically elevating a woman's power over you by conceding that she's "the best" at anything (in this case, looking good). She's done nothing and she's already getting a massive gift--in the form of an ego boosting compliment--from you.

I find it a bit hard to put it, but… I don’t feel that when I go direct complementing a girl like that that I lose power. Again, I believe, it is not the words themselves. If you don’t feel you lose power and you are firm in your intent, it is not the words that will cause that. I can understand it seems like an ego boost, but if your frame is strong enough, and you compliment in a vibe as if you don’t care, with a certain aloofness, confidence and lightheartedness, I believe (I use "believe", but I actually practice that on my interactions, I’m not speaking theoretically) you don’t lose power.

If you don’t feel that your words carry that much weight, they won’t, and your subcommunication will be more powerful. Again, intent and frame.

And about losing notches…

I’d say that one of the beauties of going direct is that you can screen for girls that are out to meet a guy or not much faster. The initial indirect approach takes longer to get the feeling if the girl is DTF or not.

And I think we are discussing more than just "openers", we are discussing frames, beliefs, attititude etc. We are discussing what is "behind" openers.

[mofo]

Samseau

[Amour Fou]

Quote:

Quote:
who have been told they are pretty over 10,000 times before she's hit 18.

Not true. Every guy thinks this, and that's why they avoid approaching in the first place.

I realized this when I approached a woman who is a well-known model, and she said was "I never get approached like that. Guys usually just stare."

This is the unanimous experience of women I've met and dated. They get stares and weird excuses to talk (indirect done the WRONG WAY). They don't get genuine, warm direct approaches, OR fun witty indirect approaches.

I can completely relate to that.

I have something important to add, that I don't see it discusse here that much...

I have no interest in entering the whole "Sasha PUA direct daygame" debate, but if there is something that I learned from him, and by others such as the Simple Pickup guys (I've just founded them recently, a great source of inspiration) is the impact and importance of being LIGHTHEARTED in my interactions. If you are OPEN, CHEERFUL (without overdoing it, of course) and LIGHTHEARTED, your aura speaks and attracts for you, and you can be less brainy about your interactions, thinking of powerplays between the girl and being over concerned with what is going on all the time, and what she is thinking.

This is something that doesn't get stressed enough, being LIGHTHEARTED.

Robert Greene, in Seduction, named it "the indefensive lover", which always striked me as something deep, but only recently, through intensive practice that I've been getting in the hardships of the place I am now (Hawaii) is that I am managing to incorporate that to my game.

If you are in good spirits, being "open" (a better term than "direct") might be all you need...

[Samseau]

(12-19-2011 11:08 PM)mofo Wrote:  

Samseau: Do you go out?

Do you eat food?


IceintheWater:

Dude, you're talking past me. We're in agreement for most issues.

Not sure why you even quoted me.

Quote:

I realized this when I approached a woman who is a well-known model, and she said was "I never get approached like that. Guys usually just stare."

Right, did you bang her? Otherwise this not-so-veiled attempt to brag is just silly.


I don't give a fuck about direct conversational game anymore than I do for indirect game. I use whatever I feel like and magically it all works out.

Direct game is bullshit.
Indirect game is bullshit.

Just go up and talk to her about whatever.


See #4.

NOTE: This only applies to night game. Direct game in daytime makes you look like a tool in most situations, indirect has far more social grace.

[Tuthmosis]

(12-19-2011 11:48 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Direct game is bullshit.
Indirect game is bullshit.

Just go up and talk to her about whatever.

You do realize that that's indirect game, right?

[Iceinthewater]

(12-19-2011 11:48 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(12-19-2011 11:08 PM)mofo Wrote:  

Samseau: Do you go out?

Do you eat food?


IceintheWater:

Dude, you're talking past me. We're in agreement for most issues.

Not sure why you even quoted me.

Quote:

I realized this when I approached a woman who is a well-known model, and she said was "I never get approached like that. Guys usually just stare."

Right, did you bang her? Otherwise this not-so-veiled attempt to brag is just silly.


I don't give a fuck about direct conversational game anymore than I do for indirect game. I use whatever I feel like and magically it all works out.

Direct game is bullshit.
Indirect game is bullshit.

Just go up and talk to her about whatever.


See #4.

NOTE: This only applies to night game. Direct game in daytime makes you look like a tool in most situations, indirect has far more social grace.

Dude if I said I banged her THEN I'd be bragging. Think about what you're reading before you call it silly.

Any dude can approach a girl and find out she's a model. I'm sure I've approached a ton of models and didn't bang them, especially in Vegas.

The point is WHAT SHE SAID TO ME.

This girl is a WELL KNOWN MODEL, in other words A LOT OF GUYS THINK SHE'S HOT. So I'm saying, it wasn't just me thinking she was hot. She was OBJECTIVELY hot. That's all.

This is IMPORTANT because it shows that she's the type of chick that guys THINK gets approached all day.

So now YOU sound silly because you ran off and didn't even think about what you were reading or writing.

I quoted you because you stepped in like you are the last word with, "direct is bullshit."

But THAT is bullshit.

So YOUR bullshit pontification begged some correction, for the greater good.

We all know you're style is to dance. That's great. I would NEVER say, "Dancefloor game is bullshit." I read the Dance article and learned from it because CLEARLY it works for you. So why would I dismiss that and say "bullshit." I'd sound retarded right?

I don't know what you mean by "talking past" you since you're the one who involved yourself in the discussion. Don't you expect replies when you post something?

Let's have a real discussion instead of saying "thats bullshit" or outright dismissing something that CLEARLY WORKS FOR A LOT OF GUYS.

And you wanna talk about social grace. Try demonstrating some.

Cmon bro - I see you've been a huge contributor. Maybe you have an insight for the young/new dudes.

Oh and direct is ALL I do during the day. It works homey. And girls think I'm graceful lol.

Keep your mind open, and do you.

[Samseau]

(12-20-2011 12:46 AM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(12-19-2011 11:48 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Direct game is bullshit.
Indirect game is bullshit.

Just go up and talk to her about whatever.

You do realize that that's indirect game, right?

I dunno, is it? Is offering my hand to a girl without talking to her direct or indirect? I think a lot of guys forget that direct/indirect depends on how the girl interprets your actions. If a girl thinks you're being direct while asking for the bathroom location, is it direct?

[Tuthmosis]

(12-20-2011 01:12 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

I dunno, is it? Is offering my hand to a girl without talking to her direct or indirect? I think a lot of guys forget that direct/indirect depends on how the girl interprets your actions. If a girl thinks you're being direct while asking for the bathroom location, is it direct?

See, I disagree. I don't think it has anything to do with what she thinks. If you go indirect, a girl (especially a hot one) is going to suspect that you might be interested, and are just "trying to talk to her," simply because you're a dude. That's the heart of indirect: suspicion, but not 100-percent certitude. If you go direct, you're basically declaring to her that you're interested. Even if you qualify it with something cornball like, "we'll see if you have anything beyond your looks," you've showed your hand.

When you dance, you're doing indirect game, in my opinion. You're "just" dancing, you're not offering your hand to go fuck. If midway through the dance you say, "you're the hottest girl I've danced with tonight," you've now switched to direct.

If a girl thinks you're being direct by asking where the bathroom is, she's being a fucking idiot. She may suspect you're just trying to talk to her, but that doesn't make it a direct approach.

[Amour Fou]

(12-20-2011 01:04 AM)Iceinthewater Wrote:  

Let's have a real discussion instead of saying "thats bullshit" or outright dismissing something that CLEARLY WORKS FOR A LOT OF GUYS.

And you wanna talk about social grace. Try demonstrating some.

Agreed, just saying "bullshit" is completely pointless and adds nothing.

[Samseau]

(12-20-2011 01:04 AM)Iceinthewater Wrote:  

Dude if I said I banged her THEN I'd be bragging. Think about what you're reading before you call it silly.

Any dude can approach a girl and find out she's a model. I'm sure I've approached a ton of models and didn't bang them, especially in Vegas.

The point is WHAT SHE SAID TO ME.

Taking a girl's response as an indication of what works or not?

Isn't conventional wisdom that "Don't take a woman's advice for getting women?" Sure she was a model, but I still don't trust 'em.

Quote:

This is IMPORTANT because it shows that she's the type of chick that guys THINK gets approached all day.

So you found one model who didn't get hit on in a direct manner and you assume that it's true for many women?

Who cares? What difference does it make if women get approached directly often or not? You think women reward originality or something?

Quote:

So now YOU sound silly because you ran off and didn't even think about what you were reading or writing.

If your intention wasn't to have a veiled brag, you would have addressed my original comment that hot girls get complimented 10,000 times by the time they are 18. This a regular girl's life: family, friends, teachers, workers, the maginas on facebook complimenting their photos, etc, all telling her how pretty she is. Now, multiply this by 100 for a model.

Instead, you talk about how you hit on a model with direct game. Like, so what man? It's irrelevant to what I was talking about!

Quote:

I quoted you because you stepped in like you are the last word with, "direct is bullshit."

But THAT is bullshit.

So YOUR bullshit pontification begged some correction, for the greater good.

Bullshit just means, "It doesn't matter." I understand now if you felt offended that I said direct is bullshit. But all I meant is that "It doesn't matter if go you direct."

Whether or not you go direct is bullshit, and I tried to make that clear with the context of my previous posts.

Quote:

We all know you're style is to dance. That's great. I would NEVER say, "Dancefloor game is bullshit." I read the Dance article and learned from it because CLEARLY it works for you. So why would I dismiss that and say "bullshit." I'd sound retarded right?

Not necessarily. It depends on how well you justify your points.

Quote:

I don't know what you mean by "talking past" you since you're the one who involved yourself in the discussion. Don't you expect replies when you post something?

Not always. I was just throwing in my two cents and experiences.

What you said in the other post was what I originally said, but rehashed. So I'm like, "Is this guy agreeing with me? Disagreeing? Does he want a response?"

Quote:

And you wanna talk about social grace. Try demonstrating some.

[soup]

(12-19-2011 10:30 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Openers don't get you laid. The whole, "Direct or Indirect" is a bunch of shit. It doesn't matter for more than 5% of the pickup.

Openers don't matter except as a way to segue into conversation. Giving a girl a complement is probably the least interesting thing you could say to most girls, who have been told they are pretty over 10,000 times before she's hit 18. That's why I think direct is bullshit. But even still, just open by saying whatever you feel like saying.

Direct, indirect, what-fucking-ever - none of it matters when it comes to getting the bang. On a forum of newbies, the most discussed part of pickup is the opener. This is telling.

Noticing this more and more. The best openers can be about the most innocuous things, even in clubs. In fact, if a girl responds badly to a simple, low investment opener, she's almost certainly a waste of time.

Only fatties and pain in the ass girls that you wouldn't want to bang put on the front of bitchiness as a response to a low investment opener. In my experience, the real high value women will usually respond to low investment openers politely, because if they get defensive, then they risk telegraphing an indecorous DLV.

In general, I think high value women and guys with good game are both very good at obscuring their intentions.

I once opened a girl in a bar by asking for the time (even though we all have cellphones). Had my tongue down her throat within 30min.

I try to read their body language and proximity for availability, and if I get a green light, I give them something easy. Just get the conversation up and running.

[Samseau]

(12-20-2011 01:19 AM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(12-20-2011 01:12 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

I dunno, is it? Is offering my hand to a girl without talking to her direct or indirect? I think a lot of guys forget that direct/indirect depends on how the girl interprets your actions. If a girl thinks you're being direct while asking for the bathroom location, is it direct?

See, I disagree. I don't think it has anything to do with what she thinks. If you go indirect, a girl (especially a hot one) is going to suspect that you might be interested, and are just "trying to talk to her," simply because you're a dude. That's the heart of indirect: suspicion, but not 100-percent certitude. If you go direct, you're basically declaring to her that you're interested. Even if you qualify it with something cornball like, "we'll see if you have anything beyond your looks," you've showed your hand.

When you dance, you're doing indirect game, in my opinion. You're "just" dancing, you're not offering your hand to go fuck. If midway through the dance you say, "you're the hottest girl I've danced with tonight," you've now switched to direct.

If a girl thinks you're being direct by asking where the bathroom is, she's being a fucking idiot. She may suspect you're just trying to talk to her, but that doesn't make it a direct approach.

Well then there are a LOT of girls who are fucking idiots!

I can't tell you how many times girls at clubs have taken my offering of a hand as direct! I'll dance with one girl, then dance her friend, and her friend is like, "OMG am I just your sloppy seconds?????!"

And I'm like... "What? Do you know what a dance is?"

I've actually constructed a "multi-dance opener" JUST to avoid this bullshit.

I've also pulled a girl out of a club, and she says to me, "Wow, I can't believe how you just approached me like that as soon as you came in through the door. It was so aggressive. Where are you from?????"

I've used lines like, "Hey, you're cute. I'm Samseau." and got GREAT responses before.

Seriously man, I cannot tell the difference. I don't know if girls see me as direct or not. It's a complete mystery to me.


As far as I can tell, all of this "Direct or Indirect" is just meaningless intrapickup babble. We use the terms direct or indirect to try and classify the openers we use, but from the girl's perspective, I'm not sure it makes a real difference. It's the least important part of the pickup.

[Deluge]

The important thing is that one approaches, and approaches regularly. Direct vs Indirect = each to his own, but it's important to be comfortable doing both.

[Batata]

(12-19-2011 08:36 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

I've been wanting to try uber direct game for a while now, but circumstantially haven't been able to go out. I hear mixed reviews about direct game, but it seems that he general opinion is the better looking you are the better your results are. I consider myself to be above average in both face and body, so i'm curious how this would go over if I tried it.

If you're above average, then you should do direct approaches as a part of your repitoire. Most girls are too retarded to have more than a dichotomus view of male attractiveness defined between "hot" and "not hot."

Or at least that's what I think.

[Iceinthewater]

(12-20-2011 02:02 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(12-20-2011 01:04 AM)Iceinthewater Wrote:  

Dude if I said I banged her THEN I'd be bragging. Think about what you're reading before you call it silly.

Any dude can approach a girl and find out she's a model. I'm sure I've approached a ton of models and didn't bang them, especially in Vegas.

The point is WHAT SHE SAID TO ME.

Taking a girl's response as an indication of what works or not?

Isn't conventional wisdom that "Don't take a woman's advice for getting women?" Sure she was a model, but I still don't trust 'em.

Quote:

This is IMPORTANT because it shows that she's the type of chick that guys THINK gets approached all day.

So you found one model who didn't get hit on in a direct manner and you assume that it's true for many women?

Who cares? What difference does it make if women get approached directly often or not? You think women reward originality or something?

Quote:

So now YOU sound silly because you ran off and didn't even think about what you were reading or writing.

If your intention wasn't to have a veiled brag, you would have addressed my original comment that hot girls get complimented 10,000 times by the time they are 18. This a regular girl's life: family, friends, teachers, workers, the maginas on facebook complimenting their photos, etc, all telling her how pretty she is. Now, multiply this by 100 for a model.

Instead, you talk about how you hit on a model with direct game. Like, so what man? It's irrelevant to what I was talking about!

Quote:

I quoted you because you stepped in like you are the last word with, "direct is bullshit."

But THAT is bullshit.

So YOUR bullshit pontification begged some correction, for the greater good.

Bullshit just means, "It doesn't matter." I understand now if you felt offended that I said direct is bullshit. But all I meant is that "It doesn't matter if go you direct."

Whether or not you go direct is bullshit, and I tried to make that clear with the context of my previous posts.

Quote:

We all know you're style is to dance. That's great. I would NEVER say, "Dancefloor game is bullshit." I read the Dance article and learned from it because CLEARLY it works for you. So why would I dismiss that and say "bullshit." I'd sound retarded right?

Not necessarily. It depends on how well you justify your points.

Quote:

I don't know what you mean by "talking past" you since you're the one who involved yourself in the discussion. Don't you expect replies when you post something?

Not always. I was just throwing in my two cents and experiences.

What you said in the other post was what I originally said, but rehashed. So I'm like, "Is this guy agreeing with me? Disagreeing? Does he want a response?"

Quote:

And you wanna talk about social grace. Try demonstrating some.

Wasn't taking advice from her. She said she never gets approached that way. that's not advice. Again, you're not using the old noodle upstairs.

Wasn't one model - I said that the unanimous response from hot girls - the ones I actually go for - don't get approached like guys would think they do. I don't need to brag lmao...work on your reading comprehension.

You knew what you were saying about direct being bullshit because later you said that direct lacks social grace. you weren't saying "it doesn't matter" - it's out there for everyone to read lol.

And if I told you dancefloor game is bullshit and justified my point, does that mean it doesn't work for you? Nice try backtracking.

Damn I feel like I'm trying to explain basic logic to a kid. If you weren't such a major contributor I'd call "troll."

Having a funny picture doesn't legitimize your silliness.

I'll ask you once again, have you EVER tried to approach a girl directly. If so, tell us your experience. Otherwise, what are YOU talking about? I'm not gonna take the time to find a funny meme image...eh.

[Batata]

"Learning game" from somebody is inherently beta. That's something guys need to understand. When you're having somebody teach you how to hook up with women, you've already submitted your will to somebody else's authority.

My advice: learn the lore, internalize the concepts by trying them out, then do you own thing. If you've got: "well, this is what XXX PUA trainer said works" in the back of your head...

you're already preoccupied with another man's thoughts and you cannot be subconsciously alpha.

Picup literature does not emphasize self-development enough.

[Iceinthewater]

(12-20-2011 03:46 AM)Batata Wrote:  

"Learning game" from somebody is inherently beta. That's something guys need to understand. When you're having somebody teach you how to hook up with women, you've already submitted your will to somebody else's authority.

My advice: learn the lore, internalize the concepts by trying them out, then do you own thing. If you've got: "well, this is what XXX PUA trainer said works" in the back of your head...

you're already preoccupied with another man's thoughts and you cannot be subconsciously alpha.

Picup literature does not emphasize self-development enough.

this is the goal with everything you do. but if you wanted to be a better salesman, wouldn't you find a book or mentor? ultimately you want to be your own man, and sometimes that requires another person to point out how you are NOT being your own man.

you're right bro - I didn't get good until I stopped reading everything and listening to everyone. I went out and tried a lot of crazy shit and made a ton of mistakes.

[pitt]

(12-20-2011 03:46 AM)Batata Wrote:  

"Learning game" from somebody is inherently beta. That's something guys need to understand. When you're having somebody teach you how to hook up with women, you've already submitted your will to somebody else's authority.

My advice: learn the lore, internalize the concepts by trying them out, then do you own thing. If you've got: "well, this is what XXX PUA trainer said works" in the back of your head...

you're already preoccupied with another man's thoughts and you cannot be subconsciously alpha.

Picup literature does not emphasize self-development enough.

Well you are completely wrong, you sound like one of these people who dont reccommend self development books. Do you know how most of top good players learnt game (This applies specifically to black cats)?, because they were raised in neighbourhoods where most of men were confident and would approach a woman without thinking twice and then they started copying the best acts that surrounded them.

Myself for example, i was highly inspired by this brazillian soap actor (Jose Maia), dude had crazy fucking game..thats why my game for a while was about making chicks fall in love with me because he was the main inspiration in my game but soon as i start hanging out with these other cats, it became strictly a fucking game (fuck and move on).

[Iceinthewater]

(12-20-2011 04:58 AM)pitt Wrote:  

(12-20-2011 03:46 AM)Batata Wrote:  

"Learning game" from somebody is inherently beta. That's something guys need to understand. When you're having somebody teach you how to hook up with women, you've already submitted your will to somebody else's authority.

My advice: learn the lore, internalize the concepts by trying them out, then do you own thing. If you've got: "well, this is what XXX PUA trainer said works" in the back of your head...

you're already preoccupied with another man's thoughts and you cannot be subconsciously alpha.

Picup literature does not emphasize self-development enough.

Well you are completely wrong, you sound like one of these people who dont reccommend self development books. Do you know how most of top good players learnt game (This applies specifically to black cats)?, because they were raised in neighbourhoods where most of men were confident and would approach a woman without thinking twice and then they started copying the best acts that surrounded them.

Myself for example, i was highly inspired by this brazillian soap actor (Jose Maia), dude had crazy fucking game..thats why my game for a while was about making chicks fall in love with me because he was the main inspiration in my game but soon as i start hanging out with these other cats, it became strictly a fucking game (fuck and move on).

this is actually a HUGE point. ultimately you need your own style and only you can get you there. but you need to start somewhere.

I learned basic game from black and hispanic cats, especially guys older than me. I learned that approaching directly isn't weird or creepy - it's cool and means you are a fucking man.

I grew up in a very mixed area so as a white guy, I could have chilled with the white dudes, but I felt like they were boring and not really aggressive with what they wanted.

it was the black dudes getting the pussy, punking people that disrespected them, spanish dudes fucking the black white spanish AND asian chicks with smooth aggression....

so I was like fuck this shit I'm gonna do that. If I grew up in the burbs I wouldn't be good with women I will admit that all day.

The difference in culture is so huge. Approaching isn't part of white culture, like dancing.

White guy Steve asks his friend "does Jenny like me?" and Jenny tells her friends "I like Steve." and then Steve asks her on a date.

Meanwhile two black dudes are at the mall pushing each other saying "Go talk to that chick. You scared of pussy? Go do it, scary ass!"

When Jenny's not with little Steve, she's with her friends smoking blunts with those guys, sucking dick, dancing naked, and actually having fun. Why? Because they approached with that sexual aggression, from confidence.

And they got it from watching their older brothers, uncles, neighbors. If you don't come from that culture, again, gotta start somewhere.

[Batata]

(12-20-2011 04:35 AM)Iceinthewater Wrote:  

(12-20-2011 03:46 AM)Batata Wrote:  

"Learning game" from somebody is inherently beta. That's something guys need to understand. When you're having somebody teach you how to hook up with women, you've already submitted your will to somebody else's authority.

My advice: learn the lore, internalize the concepts by trying them out, then do you own thing. If you've got: "well, this is what XXX PUA trainer said works" in the back of your head...

you're already preoccupied with another man's thoughts and you cannot be subconsciously alpha.

Picup literature does not emphasize self-development enough.

this is the goal with everything you do. but if you wanted to be a better salesman, wouldn't you find a book or mentor? ultimately you want to be your own man, and sometimes that requires another person to point out how you are NOT being your own man.

you're right bro - I didn't get good until I stopped reading everything and listening to everyone. I went out and tried a lot of crazy shit and made a ton of mistakes.

I'm not knocking seeking guidance, just commenting on things that need to be done to make progress. Eventually, you need to take off the training wheels.

[chyamor]

I think it also depends on location. In NY I see a lot of direct openers, where in other cities it doesnt work well.

[Samseau]

Reading comprehension for the clueless:

Quote:

Wasn't one model - I said that the unanimous response from hot girls - the ones I actually go for - don't get approached like guys would think they do. I don't need to brag lmao...work on your reading comprehension.

You said:

Quote:

I realized this when I approached a woman who is a well-known model, and she said was "I never get approached like that. Guys usually just stare."

This is the unanimous experience of women I've met and dated. They get stares and weird excuses to talk (indirect done the WRONG WAY). They don't get genuine, warm direct approaches, OR fun witty indirect approaches.

I originally said:

Quote:

Giving a girl a complement is probably the least interesting thing you could say to most girls, who have been told they are pretty over 10,000 times before she's hit 18. That's why I think direct is bullshit.

Do you see how what you said has almost nothing to do with what I've said?

Your response, that guys usually don't direct approaches has nothing to do with whether or not direct approaches are interesting. Being direct may be unique, but it doesn't make it interesting.

It's also great if you find those 3% of girls who find direct game charming or interesting or whatever. But most girls aren't going to give two shits because hot girls get complimented daily by almost everyone they know.

Talking about models, and the hot women you've dated to prove a point... irrelevant!

You said:

Quote:

You knew what you were saying about direct being bullshit because later you said that direct lacks social grace. you weren't saying "it doesn't matter" - it's out there for everyone to read lol.

I said:

Quote:

Openers don't matter except as a way to segue into conversation. Giving a girl a complement is probably the least interesting thing you could say to most girls, who have been told they are pretty over 10,000 times before she's hit 18. That's why I think direct is bullshit. But even still, just open by saying whatever you feel like saying.

Notice my position isn't that direct openers don't work. My position, because you seem unable to grasp logic (unlike Tuthmosis who has been talking to me on the same wavelength), is that the opener doesn't matter. Indirect/Direct is a bunch of shit. Do you understand now?

Quote:

And if I told you dancefloor game is bullshit and justified my point, does that mean it doesn't work for you? Nice try backtracking.

It depends on the point you made! Maybe you're point is that dance floor game is that dancing doesn't matter, and that women are attracted to me for some other reason.

Quote:

I'll ask you once again, have you EVER tried to approach a girl directly.

Yeah dude, I've gone direct... I've stated that I have above.

[iknowexactly]

compliment--noun--
statement of admiration. e.g "He gave her a compliment on her glowing skin just before he jizzed on her face."

complement--noun--
1) something that completes or highlights in a good way something else. e.g. " A good red wine can be a great complement to a tomato sauce dish, which you eat with your girlfriend before you jizz on her face."

2) A set of things with a common purpose: e.g. "She had a full complement of tissues, paper towels, and moist wipes by her bed due to her boyfriend's prediliciton for jizzing on her face."

You're better off in a debate if you the know the basic words in your complement of debating tools.

I appreciate this debate, because you're all right and it reminds me if I just OPEN MY MOUTH and remain in her proximity I am already ahead of the 97% of guys who are either sexless or scared, and up my chances greatly of ... you know what!!!