[RCron]

One thing I've encountered during the last two OKC dates are women who preemptively mention early in the date, usually through a story of a previous date that "I would never go back to a guy's place on a first date!" or "I can't believe some women would go home with a guy on the first date. He could be a sex offender!" When I hear that I can't help but think my prospects are pretty much screwed...

Later in the date with the first woman I dropped the bait of "hey, I really want to show you some of my photos, let's get out of here" (I'm a semi professional photographer) You could tell the hamster was churning and then as if snapping awake she remarked "Didn't you hear anything I told you earlier?!" I pretty much played it off as "alright whatever..." and changed the subject.

Has anyone experienced this before and successfully overcome it or do I just treat this as them doing me a favor and allowing me to next them quickly?

[chakri]

(11-15-2012 12:38 PM)RCron Wrote:  

One thing I've encountered during the last two OKC dates are women who preemptively mention early in the date, usually through a story of a previous date that "I would never go back to a guy's place on a first date!" or "I can't believe some women would go home with a guy on the first date. He could be a sex offender!" When I hear that I can't help but think my prospects are pretty much screwed...

Later in the date with the first woman I dropped the bait of "hey, I really want to show you some of my photos, let's get out of here" (I'm a semi professional photographer) You could tell the hamster was churning and then as if snapping awake she remarked "Didn't you hear anything I told you earlier?!" I pretty much played it off as "alright whatever..." and changed the subject.

Has anyone experienced this before and successfully overcome it or do I just treat this as them doing me a favor and allowing me to next them quickly?

Women say one thing and do another, my friend.

[fresh]

Great post, I see you!
Instead of drinks, am I just self a proclaimed wine expert and my passion for importing the finest wines from spain.

The girls who isnt ready to SNL, but indicates DTF, will bring me a nice( expensive) bottle of wine, when the come for my dinner date. Since its a first date, I would not make a fancy menu. Just simple home cooking, and some chilled white. Make them come around 20.00, so they think, we should have other options later. But wont, since we are fucking around midnight.

The DTF SNL girls, are invited to taste the speciel wine, One in a lifetime
opportunity, said in fun. But they come, who would miss this chance?..

[soup]

My recent experiences with this recipe have made me realize that mentioning the move to your pad too early can ruin the whole thing. Unless she is making it super obvious that she's down to fuck, you really need to spend time priming the pump by building comfort with her up front. Let it marinate.

[Samseau]

I don't even mention where I'm going after leaving a place, I just lead. I get her into my car, or start walking in a direction, and if she asks where we're going I say, "Someplace special." with an uplifting tone in my voice.

[RCron]

So I've been religiously following Tuth's recipe for five dates now (all were from POF and OKC) and here's my results and observations. These dates have been over the course of four weeks.

Total dates: 5
Invitations back to my place: 5
Accepted invitations: 3
Successful bangs: 3

Based on the above stats it's obvious that if I can get them back to my place the overwhelming odds are that I'll get the bang, but here's where it gets interesting. The two women who did not want to come back to my place were both over 30 years old. The three that did come back were 21, 29 and 23. I know based on other threads on this board as well as other forums and blogs, it's far easier to get a first date bang with women in their early twenties than it is with women in their later 30's and beyond. In turn, the flake rate for the younger women are much higher and it's tougher to pin them down to a date..heh

Has anyone had regular success using this formula on older women? It seems to me that at least in my experience, once women hit their mid 30s they generally become major prudes and pains in the ass in regards to sex and putting out. But hey, that may just be me! LOL BTW, I'm 41yo but am often told by women that I look 10 years younger. I also dress young and am in good physical shape which I know is helping me pull the ones in their 20s.

Anyway, many many thanks to Tuth for literally changing my dating life!

[TheIndifferent]

I've had ridiculous success with this model and want to say thank you for posting it.

The keys to success:

1) Classy bar near apartment but not so near it's obviously planned (5-10 min walk)

2) One drink that is slowly consumed over an hour or so while genuinely getting to know each other.

3) No making out in venue (this is the best advice).

4) I have to show you something/ Let's go for a walk.

5) She might realize what's happening and say "are we going to your place?/ is this your place?". Say yes and tell her no funny business in an accusing way.

5) At your apartment, don't immediately hop on her. Open wine/tour/ "show" something.

I've used 6 times or so. No one has denied the apartment move. North of 50% full conversion.

[soup]

I compelled to give an update on my experiences with this recipe.

Asking a girl back to your house can be very risky, and I've found that if I don't pay surgical attention to the events leading up to the invite, it can back fire very badly.

You really need to get obvious cues from her that it would be OK to come back to your house. I've tried suggesting the move without having rock-solid indicators that it would be OK and ended up shipwrecking.

If you don't get the green lights, she will likely think that you have no social intelligence. Her pussy will dry up.

I don't think there is a medium, grey area ground that can be reached once this topic is broached.

If you aren't getting a strong feeling that she'd say yes, let the date marinate longer and build more comfort.

These observations come from my last two dates with girls who slamming bodies, and now I will never get the chance to fuck them because I popped the invite without getting the obvious "yes" signals.

[TheIndifferent]

(12-17-2012 03:50 PM)soup Wrote:  

I compelled to give an update on my experiences with this recipe.

Asking a girl back to your house can be very risky, and I've found that if I don't pay surgical attention to the events leading up to the invite, it can back fire very badly.

You really need to get obvious cues from her that it would be OK to come back to your house. I've tried suggesting the move without having rock-solid indicators that it would be OK and ended up shipwrecking.

If you don't get the green lights, she will likely think that you have no social intelligence. Her pussy will dry up.

I don't think there is a medium, grey area ground that can be reached once this topic is broached.

If you aren't getting a strong feeling that she'd say yes, let the date marinate longer and build more comfort.

These observations come from my last two dates with girls who slamming bodies, and now I will never get the chance to fuck them because I popped the invite without getting the obvious "yes" signals.

I hear you. It's a risk. But what I will say is that it's not so much an invite. It's you telling her what you guys are going to do. "Get your coat, I'm closing our tab, I'm going to show you something." If your frame isn't super strong, you're right, you're in deep. Every time this moment comes I worry it will fail. In some ways the slow play may be safer. But that has its own risks, right? Lots of other things can go wrong. I think the key to this move is the very boldness itself. Fortune favors the brave. Show her this is how you roll. It's not an invitation. It's the next step.

[soup]

(12-17-2012 03:54 PM)TheIndifferent Wrote:  

(12-17-2012 03:50 PM)soup Wrote:  

I compelled to give an update on my experiences with this recipe.

Asking a girl back to your house can be very risky, and I've found that if I don't pay surgical attention to the events leading up to the invite, it can back fire very badly.

You really need to get obvious cues from her that it would be OK to come back to your house. I've tried suggesting the move without having rock-solid indicators that it would be OK and ended up shipwrecking.

If you don't get the green lights, she will likely think that you have no social intelligence. Her pussy will dry up.

I don't think there is a medium, grey area ground that can be reached once this topic is broached.

If you aren't getting a strong feeling that she'd say yes, let the date marinate longer and build more comfort.

These observations come from my last two dates with girls who slamming bodies, and now I will never get the chance to fuck them because I popped the invite without getting the obvious "yes" signals.

I hear you. It's a risk. But what I will say is that it's not so much an invite. It's you telling her what you guys are going to do. "Get your coat, I'm closing our tab, I'm going to show you something." If your frame isn't super strong, you're right, you're in deep. Every time this moment comes I worry it will fail. In some ways the slow play may be safer. But that has its own risks, right? Lots of other things can go wrong. I think the key to this move is the very boldness itself. Fortune favors the brave. Show her this is how you roll. It's not an invitation. It's the next step.

I've done this kind of bold move out of the blue and failed miserably. I advise being more cautious or to calibrate for your particular situation. It's different for every girl. Some girls are more free spirited (read: slut) and will just go back to your house with out much resistance. Others have a "not on the first date" policy that gets applied to everything. If you try to pull the "we're getting out of here" thing on the girl that is lukewarm or cold, she's going to be like "um, no thanks."

And at this point, you've given your hand away. Recovery from that is nearly impossible. The more you push her on it, the more it seem like you only want sex, and you begin to hemorrhage value in her eyes. You become just like the other guys. Instead of distracting her with an amazing experience that spins her hamster into blurry froth of fur, you show her your reptilian side.

[memcpy]

Can confirm the shoeless aspect of this works. Girls in Japan already do this so it's nice.

[augen sehen]

Ok I kinda bombed on this one today and I'd like some help.

First mistake: Picking a bar that didn't have good kino possibilities, and then not switching venues.

Second mistake: Picking a bar that was close to her place, but far away from mine. I guess my mindset should've been that if she doesn't want to come all the way, then she's not going to bang, but instead I figured if its close to her place we can go there after drinks.

Third mistake, and one that I'd like help with: Escalating sexual tension in the bar. We were both sitting and talking, and we talked about every topic under the sun, but with no sexual tension whatsoever. This might be because I didn't find her attractive, but I'd still like to know how to build sexual tension in the bar if there's supposed to be no kissing till you get back to your (her?) place.

The date ended suddenly like this: She said she had to finish unpacking her stuff since she just moved here today, and then we walked together till the cross where I would go to the train station and she would go the other way. I did a Hail Mary play by saying that I really should've used the restroom and can I use the one at her place, but she said no. I felt like I had fumbled by that point by not escalating anything. The only kino was incidental, nothing purposeful. Definitely not meeting again.

[RCron]

(04-01-2013 07:04 PM)augen sehen Wrote:  

Third mistake, and one that I'd like help with: Escalating sexual tension in the bar. We were both sitting and talking, and we talked about every topic under the sun, but with no sexual tension whatsoever. This might be because I didn't find her attractive, but I'd still like to know how to build sexual tension in the bar if there's supposed to be no kissing till you get back to your (her?) place.

First off, if you're not genuinely attracted to her (must pass the boner test) you've got an uphill battle since your body language, attitude and energy will all be working against you. Now, if you ARE attracted to her, start the kino right away when you first meet. Lightly tap her on the forearm when you're making a point or just happened to remember something. "Oh! I remember now (tap) the movie was named blah blah blah." Follow it up with shoulder bumps when you're teasing her, high fives where you grab onto her hand and so on...

A great resource for kino is to lookup the DeCarlo Escalation ladder. It's pretty much the gold standard for how to do it.

[Frank Mackey]

I think this advice is very good indeed, but not adjustable to all situations...

An American girl could generally fall very easily for it, but I am really not sure whether a Portuguese/Spanish/Italian girl would swallow that pill when you ask her to come back to your place for a "drink" or whathever, even if you do this as smoothly as it is possible...

Many guys talk about having one or two drinks. I can tell you guys, that I have much much more... Basically, so far as they can hold it and are in a good mood, we have yet another drink, until like, 5 or 6 maximum, depending on the girl if she is already hammered, things get usually quite easy, including to convince her to come back to your place because eg she/you cannot drive anymore and cabs are too expensive. and if you are already making out... I really don't think in that context it would make such a big difference at all.

This tactic works particularly well with me because I'm not that good when it comes to "kino" escalations, so usually there is a difficult jump I have to make from having a really interesting and teasing conversation to actually kiss her (it's usually the most difficult step right?). When we're both drunk, things get so easy that it has happened that she just kisses me when I'm not even thinking about it

But I have respect for Tuthmosis tactic and I would like to try it one time. Perhaps adjust it to my own tactic and offer her some 3 or 4 more caipirinhas at home before actually trying to make a move, eheh

[RCron]

Just a side note on the first date recipe. It's my default go to plan for all first dates and what I've noticed is that I'm batting .1000 (4/4) with it on women under 30 years old. However, at least for me, women in their later 30's seem to be immune to it. I'll get them home, we'll be making out, many times I'll get their shirts and bra off and then they stop me cold. They suddenly get the willpower of Ghandi and in spite of how obviously aroused they are it ends there and they go home. I don't claim to have airtight game but I'm chalking this up to their age. It's been well documented in other threads on this site that women in their later 30's are some of the toughest to get into bed. Again, YMMV...

[augen sehen]

(04-02-2013 09:51 AM)RCron Wrote:  

(04-01-2013 07:04 PM)augen sehen Wrote:  

Third mistake, and one that I'd like help with: Escalating sexual tension in the bar. We were both sitting and talking, and we talked about every topic under the sun, but with no sexual tension whatsoever. This might be because I didn't find her attractive, but I'd still like to know how to build sexual tension in the bar if there's supposed to be no kissing till you get back to your (her?) place.

First off, if you're not genuinely attracted to her (must pass the boner test) you've got an uphill battle since your body language, attitude and energy will all be working against you. Now, if you ARE attracted to her, start the kino right away when you first meet. Lightly tap her on the forearm when you're making a point or just happened to remember something. "Oh! I remember now (tap) the movie was named blah blah blah." Follow it up with shoulder bumps when you're teasing her, high fives where you grab onto her hand and so on...

A great resource for kino is to lookup the DeCarlo Escalation ladder. It's pretty much the gold standard for how to do it.

Thanks for the tip. The incidental kino was like you described, but I guess I had to move more quickly to the more purposeful sexual kino because I think she may have been wanting to get laid but got bored. Who knows.

Later this week I have a "hang out" with a Hungarian girl. I'm kinda sick of friend zoning myself, so I want to make it clear that its going to not just be friends hanging out, right from the start so I don't waste my time. I met her at a party and while we only talked in a group, she added me later on facebook and I made plans to hang out this week.

I don't care if I get blown out, I just want her to either shit or get off the pot (aka my mind!) How do I do this right off the bat?

[MrXY]

(04-02-2013 12:39 PM)RCron Wrote:  

Just a side note on the first date recipe. It's my default go to plan for all first dates and what I've noticed is that I'm batting .1000 (4/4) with it on women under 30 years old. However, at least for me, women in their later 30's seem to be immune to it. I'll get them home, we'll be making out, many times I'll get their shirts and bra off and then they stop me cold. They suddenly get the willpower of Ghandi and in spite of how obviously aroused they are it ends there and they go home. I don't claim to have airtight game but I'm chalking this up to their age. It's been well documented in other threads on this site that women in their later 30's are some of the toughest to get into bed. Again, YMMV...

I thought the consensus was that it's the early 30's who are the toughest-that's definitely been my experience. Late 30s are usually easy-peasy.

If you're able to get a woman topless, you should be banging her almost every time. Sounds like your game is otherwise good but weak in overcoming LMR- have you studied the specific techniques? Do you think you're being persistent and aggressive enough or are you giving up at the first (or second or third) show of resistance?

[Fly Fisherman]

(12-22-2011 03:02 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

Tuthmosis's Homemade First-Date Bangs

Wow, I see a lot of similarities between how I game and this system. I'm the only guy I know who's a "storyteller." Excellent stuff - thanks for the read.

[RCron]

(04-02-2013 01:40 PM)MrXY Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 12:39 PM)RCron Wrote:  

Just a side note on the first date recipe. It's my default go to plan for all first dates and what I've noticed is that I'm batting .1000 (4/4) with it on women under 30 years old. However, at least for me, women in their later 30's seem to be immune to it. I'll get them home, we'll be making out, many times I'll get their shirts and bra off and then they stop me cold. They suddenly get the willpower of Ghandi and in spite of how obviously aroused they are it ends there and they go home. I don't claim to have airtight game but I'm chalking this up to their age. It's been well documented in other threads on this site that women in their later 30's are some of the toughest to get into bed. Again, YMMV...

I thought the consensus was that it's the early 30's who are the toughest-that's definitely been my experience. Late 30s are usually easy-peasy.

If you're able to get a woman topless, you should be banging her almost every time. Sounds like your game is otherwise good but weak in overcoming LMR- have you studied the specific techniques? Do you think you're being persistent and aggressive enough or are you giving up at the first (or second or third) show of resistance?

I'll admit, LMR has been the glaring weak spot in my game. Here's a quick breakdown of a recent situation that happened to me:

Went out with 37yo attorney, Korean parents but born in the states. Very prudish looking and acting in public. Had the bar date, lots of kino and we bounced to my place 5 mins away after about 1.5 in the bar.

When we got to my place, I turned the music on and made drinks for us and then we looked at photos on my computer (I'm an amateur photographer). Went for the kiss and she practically tore my lips off. Ok, so far so good! I slowly began escalating to her neck and then after a few minutes went for the breasts (over the shirt) and the brakes came on. No problem, we take a sip of our drinks and the makeout continues. I continue the same pattern and this time she allows the breast play over the clothes. A little while later my hand starts to go up her shirt. Again, brakes come on I pull back regroup and we begin again. Next she straddles me on the couch and begins grinding, and is really getting into it. This time she stops herself and says we need to slow down. No problem, another sip of the drinks and I start in again. She again is really getting into it and I open her blouse with only token resistance and pull her bra down and start working her breasts. It's here where it comes to a screeching halt. Just when I think she's about to cum from this she calmly stops and says "ok, we're done now..." and she gets dressed and leaves. What the hell?

Sorry for the wordy reply but those are the details. I've had a good number of these situations and the pattern is pretty much the same. So where am I going wrong? Don't hold back, I just want to get better.

[the virgin chronicles]

Anyone have any tips on telling stories / talking about myself?

Seems like even at its best, my game is mostly based around talking about what the girl likes and what she wants to talk about. Dale Carnegie kind of stuff.

A lot of people say that this is a symptom of living a boring life. I would say that's partially right, but even when I do something cool, I don't know what to say about it.

Ex: Just went abroad to Singapore over Spring Break.

It's just crazy because it seems like the most charming people are usually not the coolest. They're just the loudest, and they've always got a story to tell about themselves. Then when you hang out with them you realize they're just as boring as everyone else but they embellish.

Any advice?

[eradicator]

(04-06-2013 02:41 PM)the virgin chronicles Wrote:  

Anyone have any tips on telling stories / talking about myself?

Seems like even at its best, my game is mostly based around talking about what the girl likes and what she wants to talk about. Dale Carnegie kind of stuff.

A lot of people say that this is a symptom of living a boring life. I would say that's partially right, but even when I do something cool, I don't know what to say about it.

Ex: Just went abroad to Singapore over Spring Break.

It's just crazy because it seems like the most charming people are usually not the coolest. They're just the loudest, and they've always got a story to tell about themselves. Then when you hang out with them you realize they're just as boring as everyone else but they embellish.

Any advice?

Yeah, you have to actually become a more interesting person by working on your inner game so you will have something interesting to say and it won't be bullshit.

I can understand how this recipe won't work for guys that have no game to start with.

Thanks for posting this tuth, very solid.

[soup]

(04-06-2013 02:41 PM)the virgin chronicles Wrote:  

Anyone have any tips on telling stories / talking about myself?

Seems like even at its best, my game is mostly based around talking about what the girl likes and what she wants to talk about. Dale Carnegie kind of stuff.

A lot of people say that this is a symptom of living a boring life. I would say that's partially right, but even when I do something cool, I don't know what to say about it.

Ex: Just went abroad to Singapore over Spring Break.

It's just crazy because it seems like the most charming people are usually not the coolest. They're just the loudest, and they've always got a story to tell about themselves. Then when you hang out with them you realize they're just as boring as everyone else but they embellish.

Any advice?

Be very descriptive about everything and get her emotionally engaged. Make sure that you are dropping a lot of DHVs

I've been telling the same stories to girls for years.

[Caligula]

Practise the stories again and again until you can tell them really well. Tweak along the way and figure out what works, what gets a good response. You don't need a lot of stories, just a few good ones. The rest of the time riff off what she says and get her emotionally engaged when talking about herself.

[Stun]

+1 for the OP. This worked like a charm last night. I met the girl at a bar nearby, had a couple drinks, bounced to a second bar, had one more, then to my place. I can break down in greater detail if anyone is interested.

[YaManBT]

(09-06-2013 01:37 PM)Sugar Wrote:  

+1 for the OP. This worked like a charm last night. I met the girl at a bar nearby, had a couple drinks, bounced to a second bar, had one more, then to my place. I can break down in greater detail if anyone is interested.

That's awesome.

I can't wait to run this game more often. I banged an OKC chick last week using this method, and it was arguably the easiest bang of my life. I'd like to thank Tuthmosis.