[TheFinalEpic]

Because it's openly paraded around with shows like Sex and the City. Our culture is degenerate, what else would you expect when destroying the family unit is the perpetual goal. Just look at this Netflix ad that Roosh tweeted the other day:

So funny, so edgy. Would reccommend cancelling subscriptions if you have them. The saving grace is the comments, and how this has been heavily downvoted.

[Jetset]

(01-05-2018 01:23 PM)The Alpha Virgin Wrote:  

I've fooled my own girlfriend to make it seem like I'm "open-minded" like a liberal and that I'd have little problem with her sleeping with another guy as long as she's honest to me about it first. But obviously, if she ever told me she wanted to fuck another dude and be in a open-relationship with me at some point, I'd kick her out....I think many people that are unfaithful are so because they get turned on by the huge taboo surrounding it. And if the girl was ever about to cheat anyway, I think there's more of a chance that she actually comes clear and tell me about it because she thinks it won't be the dead end of the relationship. Plus she's not walking around fooling herself thinking I'm not attracted to other womens' bodies and that my male instincts are telling me to go and fuck them, so it's like she understands what a huge sacrifice I'm making just to be exclusive to her.

So, this is your first serious relationship, then?

[The Alpha Virgin]

(01-05-2018 03:13 PM)Jetset Wrote:  

So, this is your first serious relationship, then?

More or less.

[Vaun]

This is perfectly fine with me, I gladly fuck these women. Its her prerogative. Case in point, a cute 23 yr old I approached, who constantly hits me up and texts me out of the blue about how wonderful it is that I approached her, tells me how good it made her feel, ya da ya da. So I am standing in front of my place, and lo and behold, there she is, walking arm and arm with her boyfriend of the same age, and they walk right past me. Shes been with him for years. Felt pretty bad for the guy, he doesn't know his girl is out the door.

Any man with any bit of self respect would dump her in a heart beat. If I caught a girl texting another guy, she's out the door, in the street in an instant, she's totally out of my life 100% for good. I've done it in the past to one ex, and will always be wired this way.

This happens just as much, if not more, with couples under 30. I know plenty of girls under 25 who cuck their men, its widespread.

Now I dont mind this, it just puts more women on the market for me as a current single guy, to be the guy she has fun with. And the dopey man in her life can pay her bills, buy her things, pump up her ego, give her a car, buy her a home, put a ring on it, etc. All this is, is a degenerate form of white knighting. These men are lazy degenerates, as demonstrated by how their women treat them. They fantasize about marrying a porn star. They fantasize about watching her have sex with someone else. Let them fund the decline.

Personally, I wouldn't have a long term open relationship, as espoused by Blackdragon, or anyone else. Whats the point? I don't spend a dollar on, and barely any time on, a women who is not exclusive to me, and vice versa. Its a recipe for disaster, and beta. Its a cop out, and really for a man with no game or any ability to maintain a healthy relationship with a woman. Thats our calling as men, not to cop out to the degenerate downward slide of society.

[Jetset]

(01-05-2018 08:50 PM)The Alpha Virgin Wrote:  

(01-05-2018 03:13 PM)Jetset Wrote:  

So, this is your first serious relationship, then?

More or less.

Let me try to save you some years of hardship. You said something very revealing, that you believe she's going to appreciate the sacrifices you're making by not fucking other women.

Women don't really "do" the whole "understanding what a huge sacrifice you're making" thing. Most people don't do it very well, but women are especially bad at it, and even worse when it comes to sex. For the most part, they live in a solipsistic world where their needs are primary, and the world exists to meet those needs. Women never think "wow, the mechanic fixed my car at half price because I have huge tits, I'd better fuck him". All she sees is that her huge tits cause men to sacrifice for her. She owes them nothing.

She will never, ever acknowledge that you're doing her some kind of favor by not banging all those other women. It won't even register. She will not be keeping track of some kind of debt she owes you every time you don't get laid. You will not be paid back later. Women never say "he could have had a much better life, so I'd better be really good to him because that was a huge sacrifice and I'm so grateful". No, all she sees is a guy who does not have a good life, and she suspects this is the best he can do. What she sees is that she is in control. You sacrificed for her. This is confirmation that she is more valuable than you are, that you agree with her subconscious belief that her needs are more important than yours.

This is why most men on this forum will tell you never to organize your life around pleasing a woman. She will most likely take whatever you give without even noticing the burden it places on you, see the fact that you're giving it to her as proof that she's entitled to it, and then be disgusted by you when the stress of endless compromise turns you into a withered husk. It's part-and-parcel of what I said about the transactional nature of letting her have her "open relationship": he believes he's being a prince and that she appreciates his generous gesture, but she just sees more proof that she's a princess and he's a groveling peasant who will give her whatever she demands and be happy about it.

The script should always be that your life is great with or without her and that any woman would be lucky to be invited along for the ride. She will never give a shit about rewarding you for all the women you could have banged but didn't. Don't think like that. If anything, her confidence that you aren't going to bang anybody else hurts your position.

[questor70]

Personally I don't see a huge distinction between a guy banging a woman who openly admits she has a boyfriend and the boyfriend who has an "open" relationship. In both cases you are sending a single to women that it's okay to double-dip. I get that the overall investment is less in a bootycall vs. some official designation of boyfriend or SO. But how much difference is there really? Does it boil down to whether you reveal the relationship to friends and family? I mean, there is some sort of grief over the death of fidelity as a virtue here, but if guys never say no when a woman admits she has a boyfriend, isn't that just part of the problem? Seems bros before hoes no longer applies as everyone's out for himself.

[HankMoody]

(01-06-2018 11:24 AM)questor70 Wrote:  

Personally I don't see a huge distinction between a guy banging a woman who openly admits she has a boyfriend and the boyfriend who has an "open" relationship. In both cases you are sending a single to women that it's okay to double-dip. I get that the overall investment is less in a bootycall vs. some official designation of boyfriend or SO. But how much difference is there really? Does it boil down to whether you reveal the relationship to friends and family? I mean, there is some sort of grief over the death of fidelity as a virtue here, but if guys never say no when a woman admits she has a boyfriend, isn't that just part of the problem? Seems bros before hoes no longer applies as everyone's out for himself.

This has been my observation...

She usually lives with "open relationship" guy, who takes her out on dinner dates, watches her dog, drives her to the airport, goes to all her family functions, buys groceries, pays bills, texts back and forth with her all day, puts her on his health insurance, etc.

In my view, that's a relationship which should warrant monogamy. The fact that she is allowing a man to make this type of investment in her, without commitment, is immoral in my opinion. She wants all the benefits of a boyfriend / husband, but isn't willing to give up sucking off Johnny Bartender.

Why a man would allow this arrangement, I do not know.

My FWBs? They come over, we bang, they go home. Sometimes we text, sometimes we go on dates if I feel like it. Sometimes we don't talk for months. I don't know what they do when I'm not around, and frankly, I don't care.

I avoid women in "open relationships" because I do not want the drama. Banging an "open relationship" girl means you're also bringing their boyfriend into your life. Even if it's just her talking about how "I live with Joe Beta, but I don't know if I'm in love with him, you know what I mean? He's so good with the dog, but that spark isn't there. And he was late to (something stupid)."

Plus, they always claim "there's no jealousy", but there is. He is putting in a huge investment with little return, while I'm casually banging her on the side with little to no investment. Any man who isn't jealous is lacking in testosterone.

Every "open relationship" girl I've ever banged has been an emotional, egotistical train wreck. I've found that it's just not worth it.

[Genghis Khan]

(01-05-2018 12:57 PM)xxx Wrote:  

Now that I think about it, it actually makes sense; take the genes from the alpha and have the beta provide and raise the baby. In this way the alpha can spread his superior seed far and wide, ultimately contributing to the thriving of the species.

I don't know if I entirely buy this argument. Not saying guys don't get cucked, but if all we have was alpha fucks beta bucks going on, wouldn't betas have died out a long time ago? Considering there's tons of weakass dudes around it does make me think not every single non-Alpha dude gets cucked.

(01-05-2018 11:09 AM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  

Numales often fall for the Polyamory trap set out for them by their Liberal girlfriends. They are told "you get to have sex with other people, too!" Except the chick knows damn well he can't or won't get any poosy (least not comparable to the amount of dick she's getting inundated with on a daily basis) So the outcome is as Hank described.

Very true. I went on a date with a girl who was in an open relationship. I didn't know at the time, she told me during the date. I was curious about it and asked her tons of questions.

The answers killed me. Basically she convinced him they'd both be able to fuck other people. And they both got on Tinder. She got 20x more matches than him (of course), and he got insanely jealous.

I think a lot of guys get conned into thinking this'll be great for them too.

(01-05-2018 11:27 AM)questor70 Wrote:  

I just think loyalty as a virtue is bleeding itself out of culture.

You see this in employment, for instance. How many people feel a sense of loyalty to stay at their jobs? How many would think twice about quitting if a better job came around, no matter how much you leaving would damage operations? Nobody gives a shit because they know they themselves are at-will employees who could be asked to pack their stuff in a box and leave under armed guard on a moment's notice.

Well, that attitude is the same with relationships. Anytime you interact with someone of the opposite sex they could ghost you at a moment's notice. No explanation and no apologies. Once you feel that way, then you downgrade your expectations accordingly. So everything becomes a game of constantly shifting musical-chairs.

With connections this weak, why even bother expecting monogamy?

The only pressure for monogamy revolves around kids, and even there, with baby-mama culture, it's going away.

When I tried online dating 2 years ago, this was the hardest thing for me to learn - the lack of honor. It was a real mindwarp to talk to girls, schedule dates and have them completely ghost/flake right before. The worst is that you can't even call people out in it. I mean you could, but not like the other party would give a fuck anyway. What's really the consequence of being a shitty person nowadays. At least in the past people lived in smaller enclaves and if you didn't behave honorable, people would talk shit about you. Now...everyone does it. So yeah...

It definitely set expectations lower for me once I adjusted emotionally. It's weird because now dates and even bangs mean absolutely nothing to me.

Sad but true.

[xxx]

(01-06-2018 12:48 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

(01-05-2018 12:57 PM)xxx Wrote:  

Now that I think about it, it actually makes sense; take the genes from the alpha and have the beta provide and raise the baby. In this way the alpha can spread his superior seed far and wide, ultimately contributing to the thriving of the species.

I don't know if I entirely buy this argument. Not saying guys don't get cucked, but if all we have was alpha fucks beta bucks going on, wouldn't betas have died out a long time ago? Considering there's tons of weakass dudes around it does make me think not every single non-Alpha dude gets cucked.

Well no, because while the first child will be a descendant of the alpha, the following children will be the betas'. It's also possible the alphas' child ends up being a girl.

Nature works out the correct ratio of alphas to betas. I'm sure the men of the past were uglier and much more stupid though, so we are definitely improving by natural selection.
   

[treypound]

(01-05-2018 12:03 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

(01-05-2018 11:52 AM)The Alpha Virgin Wrote:  

How do you know the guys aren't sleeping with others too?

It doesn't matter if they are.

No masculine male would allow their significant other to openly sleep with other men.

End of thread.

[questor70]

(01-06-2018 12:48 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

It definitely set expectations lower for me once I adjusted emotionally. It's weird because now dates and even bangs mean absolutely nothing to me.

I think a key differentiator here is how much you look at the woman as a person instead of just a means to physical gratification. The more I get to know about her, the more I'm going to start second-guess her life-choices and want to play backseat-driver. It's not just about the monogamy question either. I'm talking about everything about how she leads her life. It's hard to maintain attraction to a woman when you hold little respect for her. So the less you know the better.

Like in the one casual sex thing that I took too far during my blue-pill days, she had an addictive personality. Sex was just one addiction in addition to smoking and drinking. So she was grossly irresponsible and a commitment-phobe. The same reason she made herself available to me, she made herself available to a married man or her boss who had a a girlfriend. No sense of honor or conscience about this stuff.

I very distinctly remember having dinner with this woman where she told me the story about her boss who lived in Europe. He flew her to Europe as a perk and while she was there she shacked up at his place (presumably as "just a friend"). At the time, he had an official girlfriend who was coming and going from the place, and yet once the two of them had a private moment together they were banging as if it was nothing more significant than a handshake or a backrub.

I was there hosting this woman for a week or two at my place, buying her dinner, and had already allowed myself to fall in love with her, but then suddenly, after she related this story, it pierced the veil. I was sort of furrowing my brow wanting to say..."Do you have any fucking ethics whatsoever? Not only is he technically your boss, but he's taken, and you don't give a rat's ass?" But since I was so far invested, I thought two things, a) don't look a gift horse in the mouth and b) maybe over time I can instill a sense of conscience in her. So I pulled my punches. But I couldn't unlearn what I learned, and it did in some way nag me in the back of my mind even as we were fucking, that she really wasn't "worthy" of my affection, and of course, she wasn't.

So just like you're saying. The only way to protect yourself is to lower your expectations. Never ask more from a woman than her reputation suggests she can give.

[EndsExpect]

(01-05-2018 10:27 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  

I've noticed an interesting trend, particularly among liberal beta males...

Women will have a boyfriend, or even a husband, often who she lives with. He's her boyfriend in pretty much every respect, except for one thing - she gets to bang other dudes. The typical makeup of this relationship is a beta male dating a relatively attractive liberal self-identified feminist. I have found some of my friends wives on Bumble / Tinder, and amazingly, they know about it. The woman is usually banging out like crazy, while the "boyfriend" is sitting at home watching TV.

When I laugh at these women (and men) for it, the response is almost always this:

Go to OKCupid or some other dating site. Look for Non-Monogamous Women Current IN Relationships. It's an easy search.

I have not checked places like LA or NYC, but here in Liberaltopia (Seattle/Portland) the women engaged in this kind of thing are 5's at best. You will sometimes see an Asian 6 or 7. Most of the guys who are involved in this thing are shacked up with a fat ugly feminist 4... and if she wants to fuck other guys it's really hard to care as long as she pays her half of rent.

Guys who are really Liberal politically are more likely enjoy being cucks because they are Bisexual. They love hearing the wife or GF come back and tell them all about the huge cock they just rode... and that liberal fucker is salivating the whole time getting off on the fantasy that it's HIM sucking that cock and not her!

Is it a political liberal thing that makes guys like this? I think about in generational terms. Could I imagine Bill Clinton in an open relationship... yes... bisexual? No. Does it seem possible for Obama to be in an open relationship? Michelle probably fucks rappers all day while he jerks to it. Does it seem plausible that Obama would be sucking dicks... Yes and probably bending over for Barney Frank too.

So... to my opinion it's just a different generation of liberal. One that hates their own masculinity and actively wants to be LGBT-QEDSMW.

[coverdoc]

(01-07-2018 10:17 PM)EndsExpect Wrote:  

(01-05-2018 10:27 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  

I've noticed an interesting trend, particularly among liberal beta males...

Women will have a boyfriend, or even a husband, often who she lives with. He's her boyfriend in pretty much every respect, except for one thing - she gets to bang other dudes. The typical makeup of this relationship is a beta male dating a relatively attractive liberal self-identified feminist. I have found some of my friends wives on Bumble / Tinder, and amazingly, they know about it. The woman is usually banging out like crazy, while the "boyfriend" is sitting at home watching TV.

When I laugh at these women (and men) for it, the response is almost always this:

Is it a political liberal thing that makes guys like this? I think about in generational terms. Could I imagine Bill Clinton in an open relationship... yes... bisexual? No. Does it seem possible for Obama to be in an open relationship? Michelle probably fucks rappers all day while he jerks to it. Does it seem plausible that Obama would be sucking dicks... Yes and probably bending over for Barney Frank too.

[General Stalin]

I theorize that there are two reasons that men are in "open relationships" with women:

1.) The man is a naive pussy who has believed all the spoonfed anti-masculinity and extreme women's empowerment horse shit to the point of mental sterilization so he thinks "his girl" fucking around with other dudes somehow means she is still a faithful, loyal, trustworthy, and dedicated lover.

2.) He doesn't give a shit and fucks around also.

Now to me OP is obvious, but I pose apre curious question:

What do you guys think about married couples who have group sex/swing parties with other people/couples?

I met a dude a while back who said his sex life with his wife was boring, so they started finding other couple tommess around with. So now once in a while they go on a sort of "double date" with another swinger couple and at the end of the night they all fuck eachother together in the same bedroom. Dude with fuck the other dudes wife and other did will fuck his wife. Straight up 4 way.

[Rhyme or Reason]

Quote:

What do you guys think about married couples who have group sex/swing parties with other people/couples?

Swingers tend to be dried up, old, ect. I think finding a hot youngish chick who's into swinging would probably be like finding a needle in a hay stack. And less sanitary.

[bgbusiness]

I am just going to put this chart there. People lie, numbers don't lie.



Please pay close to the chart where the variables are education.

Let's look at males in terms of levels of education. The males who identify themselves as very masculine decline pretty sharply after getting MORE education. It drops from 37 points to 22.

In addition, less number of females are identifying themselves as very feminine AFTER receiving education. The points drops from 38 to 24.

(Well, pretty obvious...I took two SJW classes last semester to fulfill my general education and one of those teacher told the class verbatim that "Valuing woman primarily by physical attraction is what's wrong in the patriarchy". Yeah. Most likely a modern feminist.)

So I can tell you that college is brainwashing kids into believing that they need to act in a "politically correct way" from first hand experience...

I know some couples who got married right after college...or even senior year of college...

If their marriage is great, I wish the best for them, but thinking that when I am in 40s and my wife will be in 40s...Most likely my wife won't be that hot ass chick in early 20s that I am used to banging. I would rather work my ass off now and when I am in 30s and 40s, I can bang girls in early 20s and girls half of my age like Leonardo. I can't imagine banging the same chick for 20 years, would probably get bored.

I am not so sure about marriage anymore these days. Even Jay-Z cheated on Beyonce because he got tired of the same pussy. He did go back to Beyonce because he realized that all that's left out there is hoes.

TLDR: Millennials are fucked and cucked.

[Rob Banks]

(01-05-2018 12:03 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

(01-05-2018 11:52 AM)The Alpha Virgin Wrote:  

How do you know the guys aren't sleeping with others too?

It doesn't matter if they are.

No masculine male would allow their significant other to openly sleep with other men.

Blue-haired SJW:

"You just don't get it. You have a double staaaaaaandard. You wouldn't be saying the same thing about women who allow their men to sleep around. Don't you get it? Men and women are eeeeeeeeequal. If a man can sleep around, why can't a woman do it? I, for one, think a man who allows his woman to be sexually satisfied is enlightened and courageous. You sexist PIG!"

[treypound]

(01-06-2018 12:46 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

This is perfectly fine with me, I gladly fuck these women. Its her prerogative. Case in point, a cute 23 yr old I approached, who constantly hits me up and texts me out of the blue about how wonderful it is that I approached her, tells me how good it made her feel, ya da ya da. So I am standing in front of my place, and lo and behold, there she is, walking arm and arm with her boyfriend of the same age, and they walk right past me. Shes been with him for years. Felt pretty bad for the guy, he doesn't know his girl is out the door.

Any man with any bit of self respect would dump her in a heart beat. If I caught a girl texting another guy, she's out the door, in the street in an instant, she's totally out of my life 100% for good. I've done it in the past to one ex, and will always be wired this way.

This happens just as much, if not more, with couples under 30. I know plenty of girls under 25 who cuck their men, its widespread.

If all young men were taught early on to have that level of self respect...

[Roardog]

(01-08-2018 07:05 PM)treypound Wrote:  

(01-06-2018 12:46 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

This is perfectly fine with me, I gladly fuck these women. Its her prerogative. Case in point, a cute 23 yr old I approached, who constantly hits me up and texts me out of the blue about how wonderful it is that I approached her, tells me how good it made her feel, ya da ya da. So I am standing in front of my place, and lo and behold, there she is, walking arm and arm with her boyfriend of the same age, and they walk right past me. Shes been with him for years. Felt pretty bad for the guy, he doesn't know his girl is out the door.

Any man with any bit of self respect would dump her in a heart beat. If I caught a girl texting another guy, she's out the door, in the street in an instant, she's totally out of my life 100% for good. I've done it in the past to one ex, and will always be wired this way.

This happens just as much, if not more, with couples under 30. I know plenty of girls under 25 who cuck their men, its widespread.

If all young men were taught early on to have that level of self respect...

I've banged a few girls who I found out afterwards had boyfriends. I honestly felt bad for the dudes.

I was banging a girl for a while who admitted to me that she had cheated on every guy she had ever dated. I immediately downgraded her to FWB at best so when she pushed me for commitment I just laughed at her.
How any girl could expect commitment after admitting to that kind of track record I'll never know.

It is like a high school mate of mine. He never dumped girls, he just started cheating on them until they found out and left him. And yet every single girl was in turn surprised when he did the same thing to her.

[Mufasa]

Kaotic took the words right out of my mouth.

(01-05-2018 12:34 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

You're right about this Hank, men are turning into pussies

The fact is, these women hardly have any options, and so do their soy boyfriends, it's a desperate attempt to attract a man of higher stature by openly stating they're down to fuck even if they're in a relationship.

And here lies the flip side of this for men. While the dating landscape is set up for women to win over men winning, the lack of high quality options have made it easy for high quality men to demand and receive what they want in relationships.

My last 3 main girls all at some point verbalized that they had worries about me fucking other women or that they didn't want to share me, I never confirmed this too them. They all eventually came to terms with me fucking other women and made the decision to stick it out with me--because I was the best they thought they could do (and with the high quantity of pussies out there they were right).

They would rather have a quality man and be blissfully ignorant of what he does in his free time than be out there in the sea of lame ass dudes.

[Mess O.]

(01-05-2018 10:27 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  

. . . isn't ashamed about crying during movies.

Well, I cried at the ending of "Godzilla: 1985" when I was a kid. Really had an impact.

[kaotic]

(01-12-2018 02:23 PM)Mufasa Wrote:  

They all eventually came to terms with me fucking other women and made the decision to stick it out with me--because I was the best they thought they could do (and with the high quantity of pussies out there they were right).

They would rather have a quality man and be blissfully ignorant of what he does in his free time than be out there in the sea of lame ass dudes.

So much fucking this ! And it's true, even if they don't tell you.

They might have a hint, or a worry.

My current main wants no idea who I've fucked and who we hangout around I've fucked.

Blissful indeed.

[EndsExpect]

(01-12-2018 03:58 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

So much fucking this ! And it's true, even if they don't tell you.
They might have a hint, or a worry.
My current main wants no idea who I've fucked and who we hangout around I've fucked.
Blissful indeed.

Think about it. They will always know that the child is theirs. They need a certain amount of attention from a man to raise that child. They require your attention and resources not your fidelity.

The reason they don't want you sleeping around is that they fear you might find someone who will take that attention and resources away from them and their potential children.

Men have to worry about paternity, so their biological imperative is very different in this matter. This is why Muslims who inherently understand this stuff, put adulteresses to death.