[JayMillz]

http://newsone.com/nation/jothomas/black...e-of-hair/

[Dash Global]

id say its a higher %....

[Excelsior]

We've done this discussion here before.

[JayMillz]

(09-07-2011 08:24 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

We've done this discussion here before.

thanks

[Samseau]

It seems black guys have a lot more to gain from leaving America than white guys do.

[Smitty]

(09-07-2011 07:54 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  

http://newsone.com/nation/jothomas/black...e-of-hair/

Let's not forget about 70% are single mothers.

[Jason Zee]

(09-07-2011 09:16 PM)Smitty Wrote:  

(09-07-2011 07:54 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  

http://newsone.com/nation/jothomas/black...e-of-hair/

Let's not forget about 70% are single mothers.

Whats going on in the black community is coming to the white community. The writing is on the wall. The single mother part can also be attributed to the irresonsibility of black men.

[Excelsior]

(09-07-2011 08:45 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

It seems black guys have a lot more to gain from leaving America than white guys do.

On average, yes, it would appear so. This is not to minimize the issues we're all facing here, but on balance black men do seem to have a lot less to lose and more to gain from broadening their options. The quality within their pool of women here (black american females) exceedingly low, and even if they seek to diversify within this society and approach other groups they face an uphill battle (dating out is easier and interracial dating more acceptable on average in other many parts of the world, especially parts of Europe and Canada).
It isn't hopeless and plenty of black guys do well here with all types of women (just as plenty of white and other men do), but they can gain a lot more elsewhere.

Look at the state of black America (particularly black American women) and it isn't hard to see. Almost every problem whites in the PUA/Manosphere cite as a growing concern within the white female population has already played itself out among blacks.

1. Fear of growing obesity rates? Black American women already lead the nation here. Most of them are obese, compared to just a third of white american women.

2. Illegitimacy and rampant out of wedlock births? Look at black america. 70% illegitimacy rate and climbing. The nightmare scenarios being predicted in much of the manosphere regarding increased out of wedlock births and the complete breakdown of the family have already been played out there.

3. Concerned about the spread unchecked hypergamy(read: desire for the alpha male and nothing less) is having on the dating market? Wanna see where that's going?

Once again, black America. There may be no female more hypergamous than the average black american girl (and, ironically, there is no female with a lower rate of marriage). The culture places a tremendous emphasis for men on the possession of traits matching those of urban masculine culture (read: swagger, aggression, hard-edged, etc). In no culture are stereotypical "nice guys"(academically inclined, "chivalrous", etc) more marginalized and insulted than they are in Black American culture.

You think the sexual market value of the average white/asian nerdy kid is low? Try being a black one and having your entire culture tell you your intellect makes you an insult to the culture/race.

Think about it: there is no culture in this country more generally hostile to education/academia and more welcoming of general "bad boy" behaviours and figures. Only in Black America can a man with the character of Lil Wayne, 50 Cent, or Ray Lewis be considered a primary role model for youth. Bad-boy love and the hypergamy that comes with it has ruled the black community for a couple of generations now. That nightmare is reality there.

4. Want to know what will happen when illegitimate children raised in fatherless households become the norm? Once again, I offer you black America and the exorbitant rates of crime and other social ills that come with it.

5. What happens when men are marginalized and households become largely matriarchal? Men will have high unemployment and incarceration rates, and young boys will be prone to violence and poor academic performance. 75% of college and advanced degrees will be earned by females, while their men practically disappear from the higher echelons of the professional world leaving them without suitable mates("Where have all the good black men gone???").

A culture hostile to academia will arise, alpha male posturing (see modern rap) will become the norm to compensate for lack of other pursuits among the men and the next generation will live a cycle of generally dysfunctional sexual behavior (more sluts and more cads at earlier ages) and illegitimacy.

In other words, you end up like Black Americans.

6. Loud, outspoken women with no consequences? You think white girls are getting too much "attitude"? Which group of women carries a reputation for being easily angered, argumentative, and at times downright loud and aggressive? Do you even have to guess?

That reputation didn't come unearned. I saw it in high school, elementary school, at after school programs, etc.
White and Asian women rarely blow up loudly in public (unless you're watching bridezilla or Jersey Shore), so this is shocking behavior to them. Talk to any black male with some familiarity with average urban communities and he'll tell you how normal this type of behavior is. You can find a viral clip of black women screaming or fighting out in public almost every week like clockwork.

Bottomline: Black men have more to gain simply because all of the nuclear bombs of societal decline have already went off in Black America, and there isn't much left. The negative trends other men are just beginning to see have already run out of control there.

It wasn't always like this-Black Americans used to have stable families and very low illegitimacy rates. They had thinner women. Their men were valued once, less marginalized and expendable than they are now.

Whites and Asians still hold on to pieces of these old realities, and now sound alarms throughout the manosphere of decline, their society potentially heading on a downward trend. Black Americans have nowhere left to decline too-the destruction is already complete.

This excellent post by The Soloist explains the situation in even better detail.

Just my two cents.

[Mighty Mouse]

I can understand Athlone very well. Obviously he's a black intellectual/academic, and this whole situation is radically playing against men like him. He is also right when he expects that black America's situation today is nothing else than white America's/Western Europe's situation tomorrow.

However, there is something men can do.

Do not lower your standards! Reject overweight women! Just reject them!

As long as decent-looking men with quality traits accept overweight women either for dating or for casual sex, the situation will not change.

Also reject women older than you (with the exception of those who are BOTH older AND better looking than yourself). It's time to stop the whole "cougar" and "40 is the new 30" thing.

[Smitty]

I disagree that white american (specifically, white women) are going the way of black americans (specifically, black women). While I don't think highly of white or black women, the negative behavior exhibited by men and women in the black community would never be tolerated from white people.
The social, cultural, and moral issues in the black community are rapidly moving in the wrong direction and no one is calling them out and holding them accountable. The occasional so-called black leader steps up to the pulpit but they stir hatred in the black community and justify their behavior by making excuses for their decline. In other words, it's always someone else's fault.
The statistics for the black community - single mothers, unemployment, college degrees, etc are just awful compared to other ethnic groups. The black community has some very serious challenges to overcome and it's only getting tougher for them.
But I do not think that white women are going the same route. Don't get me wrong, they are going their own separate and fucked up route.

[jariel]

(09-07-2011 10:04 PM)Jason Zee Wrote:  

The single mother part can also be attributed to the irresonsibility of black men.

The issue is much deeper than this, and I would encourage you to look more into it before making ignorant statements based solely on personal opinion, which has likely been derived from media propaganda.

Before Civil Rights, Black Americans typically came from two-parent families, once Black women lost focus on Civil Rights and co-signed feminism -- which was the white women's issue -- and the federal government made a concerted effort to replace the man in a Black family, shit went downhill from there.

P.S. Anything that you could say about Black American women now also applies to Latin American women as well.

[guey]

(09-08-2011 07:19 AM)jariel Wrote:  

(09-07-2011 10:04 PM)Jason Zee Wrote:  

The single mother part can also be attributed to the irresonsibility of black men.

The issue is much deeper than this, and I would encourage you to look more into it before making ignorant statements based solely on personal opinion, which has likely been derived from media propaganda.

Before Civil Rights, Black Americans typically came from two-parent families, once Black women lost focus on Civil Rights and co-signed feminism -- which was the white women's issue -- and the federal government made a concerted effort to replace the man in a Black family, shit went downhill from there.

P.S. Anything that you could say about Black American women now also applies to Latin American women as well.

These issues are not simple ones. While Jerial's post attempts to minimize the personal responsibility factor, which definitely plays a role, it is not the only factor.

He is very correct in his first statement: "The issue is much deeper than this."

Oversimplifying stuff with comments like, "All black guys leave black women as single mothers" is idiotic and fundamentally flawed.

People love simple answers. Unfortunately, complex problems have complex answers.

[rudebwoy]

Jariel - you always speak knowledge and sense.

I live in Canada and there are plenty of fat black women here as well, they are simply invisible to me. As are the loads of fat white women who are just the same minus the attitude, and yes there are many that are single parents b/c they want to live that way (more money for them).

Moving to Europe is a no-brainer for me socially, just saving my money til the time comes.

[UrbanNerd]

What a lot of black men who live in North America and THINKS that they HAVE to leave the continent fail to realize is that if you have:

- Decent education
- Decent career
- No criminal record

You pretty much get to reject all the overweight women you want. Now of course, the younger the chick, the less your education/career/police record matters, but that is just about all females.

UrbanNerd says......

Go international for the younger girls...then marry that successful north american woman when it is time to settle down. Unless you plan on living overseas, marrying most international chicks is too risky financially.

[Luvianka]

If Black American women were like the girls in this video, they would have many men (Black or White) chasing them.

http://youtu.be/n2CoFQnmxUE

[Moma]

What about the black females that are not American? What percentage are those in America? Why don't educated black guys go for the non American black females? The immigrants. Does black American sex live and die with the behaviour of the black American females?

[UrbanNerd]

(09-08-2011 09:49 AM)Moma Wrote:  

What about the black females that are not American? What percentage are those in America? Why don't educated black guys go for the non American black females? The immigrants. Does black American sex live and die with the behaviour of the black American females?

Because frankly, too many of "us" are closed-minded. Hell, you have some American brothas complaining about chicks and they only holla at the same chicks in 4-block radius. Sometimes a chick from rural/suburban area will have a different mindset from the chick in the city....but you won't know if you don't venture out.

I remember being questioned for dating a Canadian black woman instead of an American black woman, smh.

[Excelsior]

(09-08-2011 09:49 AM)Moma Wrote:  

What about the black females that are not American? What percentage are those in America? Why don't educated black guys go for the non American black females? The immigrants. Does black American sex live and die with the behaviour of the black American females?

Black immigrants (or the children of black immigrants) are a much safer option. That being said, there is a limit based upon the following factors:

1. They're relatively rare. African, Afro-Caribbean* and Afro-Latin immigrants number under 10% of the black American populace. There aren't all that many to go around.

2. Assimilation. Black immigrants are generally better at avoiding the many pitfalls that have befallen other blacks(largely because they have a shorter history in the USA), but they can embrace many of the same issues just by assimilating into the larger black culture. We often talk about how easy it is to ruin a foreign women by bringing her to the states-the same dynamic applies here.

Many have grown up completely surrounded by American culture, and do not distinguish themselves from it, instead assimilating and blending in almost completely with their more native peers. Many have done this, and have thus become difficult to distinguish from black Americans as far as attitude goes. This means that the number of suitable black immigrants (which was already low to begin with, as I've noted) is cut down even further. Most may be able to avoid this issue, but a significant minority do not, which effectively lowers the numbers.

So, to answer your question ("Does black American sex live and die with the behaviour of the black American females?"), yes.

Note*: I'm an Afro-Caribbean, for the record.

[Jason Zee]

(09-08-2011 07:19 AM)jariel Wrote:  

(09-07-2011 10:04 PM)Jason Zee Wrote:  

The single mother part can also be attributed to the irresonsibility of black men.

The issue is much deeper than this, and I would encourage you to look more into it before making ignorant statements based solely on personal opinion, which has likely been derived from media propaganda.

Before Civil Rights, Black Americans typically came from two-parent families, once Black women lost focus on Civil Rights and co-signed feminism -- which was the white women's issue -- and the federal government made a concerted effort to replace the man in a Black family, shit went downhill from there.

P.S. Anything that you could say about Black American women now also applies to Latin American women as well.

Look, I was not assigning all the blame to black men, I am not an idiot who is unaware of how the court system works and how it favors mothers and shuns fathers. When you have a illegitimacy rate that is 70 percent black women cannot possibly be the only ones to blame. It takes two to tango.

(09-08-2011 09:49 AM)Moma Wrote:  

What about the black females that are not American? What percentage are those in America? Why don't educated black guys go for the non American black females? The immigrants. Does black American sex live and die with the behaviour of the black American females?

They don’t find them attractive. Usually these women have darker skin and more African features. Also, a lot of these women marry men from their country most specifically african immigrants that come to the U.S.

[Moma]

(09-08-2011 10:08 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

Note*: I'm an Afro-Caribbean, for the record.

I know you are, I have visited both your islands.

[UrbanNerd]

(09-08-2011 07:19 AM)jariel Wrote:  

(09-07-2011 10:04 PM)Jason Zee Wrote:  

The single mother part can also be attributed to the irresonsibility of black men.

The issue is much deeper than this, and I would encourage you to look more into it before making ignorant statements based solely on personal opinion, which has likely been derived from media propaganda.

Before Civil Rights, Black Americans typically came from two-parent families, once Black women lost focus on Civil Rights and co-signed feminism -- which was the white women's issue -- and the federal government made a concerted effort to replace the man in a Black family, shit went downhill from there.

P.S. Anything that you could say about Black American women now also applies to Latin American women as well.

I don't buy into the "federal government making a concerted effort to replace the man in a Black family" angle. It's more basic than that.

The main issue is that black men and women are:

1) Not in a serious and stable relationship when having children...and
2) Not established enough financially, education-wise and career-wise when having children

[Moma]

(09-08-2011 10:09 AM)Jason Zee Wrote:  

(09-08-2011 09:49 AM)Moma Wrote:  

What about the black females that are not American? What percentage are those in America? Why don't educated black guys go for the non American black females? The immigrants. Does black American sex live and die with the behaviour of the black American females?

They don’t find them attractive. Usually these women have darker skin and more African features. Also, a lot of these women marry men from their country most specifically african immigrants that come to the U.S.

Them not finding them attractive is absolutely crazy. I think as Athlone mentioned, these brothers don't know how to step outside of their circle.

It is impossible to distinguish an Afro Caribbean/Afro Latin/African female from Afro American females. Look at Mrs Chocolate. Does she look any DIFFERENT from Afro American besides the fact that she is not OVERWEIGHT?

[Moma]

(09-08-2011 10:16 AM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

(09-08-2011 07:19 AM)jariel Wrote:  

(09-07-2011 10:04 PM)Jason Zee Wrote:  

The single mother part can also be attributed to the irresonsibility of black men.

The issue is much deeper than this, and I would encourage you to look more into it before making ignorant statements based solely on personal opinion, which has likely been derived from media propaganda.

Before Civil Rights, Black Americans typically came from two-parent families, once Black women lost focus on Civil Rights and co-signed feminism -- which was the white women's issue -- and the federal government made a concerted effort to replace the man in a Black family, shit went downhill from there.

P.S. Anything that you could say about Black American women now also applies to Latin American women as well.

I don't buy into the "federal government making a concerted effort to replace the man in a Black family" angle. It's more basic than that.

The main issue is that black men and women are:

1) Not in a serious and stable relationship when having children...and
2) Not established enough financially, education-wise and career-wise when having children

I agree with jariel totally and if he is quoting from what I think he is, then we have both watched the same film.

And why are the black men not in a serious and stable relationship when having children?

Why are they not established enough financially?

Why is it that the same black immigrants are much more solid when it comes to family?

[Excelsior]

(09-08-2011 07:19 AM)jariel Wrote:  

(09-07-2011 10:04 PM)Jason Zee Wrote:  

The single mother part can also be attributed to the irresonsibility of black men.

The issue is much deeper than this, and I would encourage you to look more into it before making ignorant statements based solely on personal opinion, which has likely been derived from media propaganda.

Before Civil Rights, Black Americans typically came from two-parent families, once Black women lost focus on Civil Rights and co-signed feminism -- which was the white women's issue -- and the federal government made a concerted effort to replace the man in a Black family, shit went downhill from there.

P.S. Anything that you could say about Black American women now also applies to Latin American women as well.

On this note, I think it would be wise for us to add in this excellent article on the subject of black decline and how it relates to feminism and welfare. Everyone should check it out if you have the time.

(09-08-2011 08:40 AM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

What a lot of black men who live in North America and THINKS that they HAVE to leave the continent fail to realize is that if you have:

- Decent education
- Decent career
- No criminal record

You pretty much get to reject all the overweight women you want. Now of course, the younger the chick, the less your education/career/police record matters, but that is just about all females.

This is a fair point. Granted, I'm only 20 so my perspective is a little different.

Quote:

UrbanNerd says......

Go international for the younger girls...then marry that successful north american woman when it is time to settle down. Unless you plan on living overseas, marrying most international chicks is too risky financially.

I'd prefer expatriation. Marrying any black american woman is far too risky:

Quote:

Divorce among black couples is more prevalent than it is among whites or Hispanic couples, according to a 2003 study by Demographic Research, http://www.demographic-research.org/default.htm, a web site that published demographic research on the Internet and encourages an "international community of people concerned with population issues." The study on the site show that 32 percent of African-American couples divorce as compared with 21 percent white couples and 22 percent Hispanics.

...The researchers found that “70 percent of black women’s first marriages will end in divorce, as will 47 percent of white women’s marriages..." Age, education and income are major factors in the stability of all marriages, regardless of race or ethnicity, but those factors affect African-American couples more than others, according to the two researchers.

Combine this with the many cultural issues I've already outlined with regards to black american women of my generation or close to it (generally under 40) and I see no good reason to take the risk.

[UrbanNerd]

(09-08-2011 10:24 AM)Moma Wrote:  

(09-08-2011 10:16 AM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

(09-08-2011 07:19 AM)jariel Wrote:  

(09-07-2011 10:04 PM)Jason Zee Wrote:  

The single mother part can also be attributed to the irresonsibility of black men.

The issue is much deeper than this, and I would encourage you to look more into it before making ignorant statements based solely on personal opinion, which has likely been derived from media propaganda.

Before Civil Rights, Black Americans typically came from two-parent families, once Black women lost focus on Civil Rights and co-signed feminism -- which was the white women's issue -- and the federal government made a concerted effort to replace the man in a Black family, shit went downhill from there.

P.S. Anything that you could say about Black American women now also applies to Latin American women as well.

I don't buy into the "federal government making a concerted effort to replace the man in a Black family" angle. It's more basic than that.

The main issue is that black men and women are:

1) Not in a serious and stable relationship when having children...and
2) Not established enough financially, education-wise and career-wise when having children

I agree with jariel totally and if he is quoting from what I think he is, then we have both watched the same film.

And why are the black men not in a serious and stable relationship when having children?

Why are they not established enough financially?

Why is it that the same black immigrants are much more solid when it comes to family?

One COULD say that the black woman "settling" for being a "baby mama" is a factor, but that does not really excuse the black male.

Many black men are not established financially, education-wise nor career-wise because many of US fail to realize that as long as black folks are not "in control" that WE have to work and qualify much more than our white counterparts. True, it isn't fair but that is the way it is T-O-D-A-Y. Many of us have "bought" into this equality thing but shyt is not equal today.