[jasond]

Having spent the last 3 years in Eastern Europe, I've noticed that the region is near a tipping point with regards to daygame.

There are now so many PUAs roaming the streets of major cities, that region-wide bitch shields are on the rise.

It's not surprising. Daygame is not meant to be done in volume. If a girl is approached once in a blue moon, she may view it as a pleasant surprise. Once an hour though, and it becomes quite weird.

I used to think it was impossible for PUAs to ruin entire cities of 1 million plus inhabitants. Not anymore. Take Prague, for instance, where I've lived this past year. Population about 1.2 million. In any city, I'd estimate 2% of the population to be attractive girls 7+. (1 million people means 500,000 women, approximately 100,000 of women of dating age, 20% of whom [about 20,000] would be attractive)

I would estimate about 50 daygame PUAs living in Prague at any moment (half foreign, half local), 20 of whom are approaching on any given day. 10 approaches a day * 20 PUAs would yield 200 approaches a day, or over 70,000 approaches a year in the city.

So it's clear that any good-looking girl who lives or work in the center of the city has already been approached multiple times. Many girls have told me that I'm the 3rd or 4th guy that's talked to them that day. Some are now even fearful to walk on the main shopping street, calling it dangerous. One girl even told me she started going to therapy, as she's in a happy relationship, and doesn't understand what signals she's giving out that causes men to keep talking to her on the street.

My friends who live in Kiev, Warsaw, Wroclaw, and Belgrade tell me similar stories.

It makes sense. I'd say the daygame skillset started being promoted around 2011, with Roosh's work and others. Now, 5 years later, there are hundreds of guys semi-proficient at it, and forums like this disseminate information about good places to go. So pickup has become a bit of an arm's race, where you need to constantly develop new skills and techniques to stay ahead of the pack. What worked so well in 2011 doesn't yield the same results in 2016.

Which is quite sad, because daygame in Eastern Europe used to be a goldmine for meaning quality women.

[TheFinalEpic]

Being a man of value never goes out of style.

[Road_Less_Taken]

A few thoughts..

I don't believe things are saturated in the way you imply, here are some ideas.

1) Guys have less social skills than in the past. Furthermore we have less skills in general. I am useless with basic tasks of fixing things instead have to turn to Google and the likes. We are glued to technology, there are very few people who actually meet their significant other in the real world nowadays..the first question I hear when I'm dating a girl is "did you meet on Tinder?". That goes to show how far we have come.

2) The world is 'perceived' as a less safer place. This is despite on aggregate over years and generations the world has never been safer than it is today. It starts from being young though helicopter parenting, where kids can't learn to fall down on their own and ends with the media disseminating rape and terrorist attacks. You approach a girl in the day she may be cautious not because your some kind of pick up artist but will rape or kidnap her, because thats what the media tells her.

3) Back in the past people had less to do. People would meander about because hey there is no instant streaming, snap chat or even mobiles. This would lead to more normal interactions that today we don't have.

Though increased traveling the better cities do become less viable and exotic over time, but I wouldn't say its some pick up artists ruining the entire country. Look at the global society we are developing into. Part of the reason why 'daygame' even exists is because guys have lacked these social skills to start a conversation and be confident in a natural way. Hence we have to 'unlearn it' and set targets like approaching X girls in a day. I struggle to see how people a hundred years ago would even make that comment. They would just see someone they like and just talk to them, or not.

[NewMeta]

(09-17-2016 01:27 PM)Road_Less_Taken Wrote:  

A few thoughts..

I don't believe things are saturated in the way you imply, here are some ideas.

...

Agree with what Jason just said because I can confirm with my eyes, disagree with anyone who would say otherwise.

Prague I always thought was the worst for this, it is like the go to spot for daygame boot camps in certain PUA circles. Wroclaw where I live has a lot of these guys, especially in university term time, they arent even subtle about it. They all wear the same black leather jacket + dark jeans combo, all look like they dont lift and spam approach at leisure.

All the same spots, the Rynek, the shopping malls, the uni campuses. So yeah just +1 to what Jason just said.

[godzilla]

""One girl even told me she started going to therapy, as she's in a happy relationship, and doesn't understand what signals she's giving out that causes men to keep talking to her on the street.""

Pretty girl goes to therapy because she doesn't understand why guys go up to pretty girls. You can't make this shit up.

[Kapostatus13]

This is one of the reasons why I hate this PUA bullshit, because its just telemarketing and spamming. Women do the choosing in the dating game, I wish people would get it by now. You should only really do approaches if she's looking at you, or she is your type and have a gut feeling about it. Just spamming is fucking retarded, I hope they pass laws and make this illegal. Let the women do the choosing, then you go up to her and spit your game. Some weak ass men wont like what I have to say, but fuck them.

Put yourself in her shoes, she has to worry about being raped or attacked by men. Now worry about these sloppy aggressive losers approaching her. I wish men would actually learn the "Real Game", instead of this glorified hoe chasing spamming crap.

[Rocha]

I would say no.

PUA's in any given city are no more than an annoyance, like the guys selling flowers and African handicraft.

[NewMeta]

It is a touchy situation, you cant outlaw it because any normal guy should have street approaches in his arsenal for meeting women. But the real issue for me is that alot of these guys are firstly unattractive and losers, creating the idea that all guys who do this are nerds who have nothing going for them, no interesting hobbies, no career, not physically strong and generally a pussy. And secondly, they are basically all tourists, they plan on pumping and dumping and most certainly come across this way, creates the horny foreigners sex tourist stereotype that is hard for guys like me (who actually prefer LTRs) to break through.


I think you really have to *live* (that is not simply visit) these hot spots to experience the problem first hand, I have many examples of times it has effected me personally. When I was upping my daygame frequency I noticed I had to make some calibrations such as I had to explicitly state I was not a tourist, I had to show my knowledge of the Polish language, had to insert stories that involved experiences living in this city (preferably ones that involved my sports and hobbies because there is every chance they will not even bite the obvious baits) and generally be more picky about who I approach so as not to saturate the issue myself.

With me personally, I prefer to settle for one girl for a long time so daygame is only a temporary period of time to gather prospects, these guys just hammer it, all day, every day, go on dates, pump and dump some ratty 5, then back to it the next day, there is no down time until they leave. At which point they are quickly replaced, lol.

[Rocha]

(09-17-2016 02:58 PM)NewMeta Wrote:  

It is a touchy situation, you cant outlaw it because any normal guy should have street approaches in his arsenal for meeting women. But the real issue for me is that alot of these guys are firstly unattractive and losers, creating the idea that all guys who do this are nerds who have nothing going for them, no interesting hobbies, no career, not physically strong and generally a pussy. And secondly, they are basically all tourists, they plan on pumping and dumping and most certainly come across this way, creates the horny foreigners sex tourist stereotype that is hard for guys like me (who actually prefer LTRs) to break through.


I think you really have to *live* (that is not simply visit) these hot spots to experience the problem first hand, I have many examples of times it has effected me personally. When I was upping my daygame frequency I noticed I had to make some calibrations such as I had to explicitly state I was not a tourist, I had to show my knowledge of the Polish language, had to insert stories that involved experiences living in this city (preferably ones that involved my sports and hobbies because there is every chance they will not even bite the obvious baits) and generally be more picky about who I approach so as not to saturate the issue myself.

With me personally, I prefer to settle for one girl for a long time so daygame is only a temporary period of time to gather prospects, these guys just hammer it, all day, every day, go on dates, pump and dump some ratty 5, then back to it the next day, there is no down time until they leave. At which point they are quickly replaced, lol.

This is not a bad thing, they serve as filters for broads with whom we do not have interest.
Also after being approached some times by a robotic/monotonic, with forced and unnatural gimmick or telemarketing script, it can be easier for them girls to value a guy who deserves value. I think the more the PUA's the easier to score.

[GlobalMan]

It's only saturated if those are the guys you're competing with, if you're doing the same thing they're doing.

There's only one you- and you only have to bring more to the table than the guy who watched some youtube videos from a wannabe player, which can be done quite easily. Most of those dudes are doing the exact same thing because they all got the same script. But a genuine, interesting, congruent man of confidence will always be in demand and have options, anywhere.

Sure, when girls are constantly being approached in a certain geographic area they will have their initial guard up more, but if you have something interesting to offer you only need a moment to pique her interest and stand out.

Overall though, this is just more of a reason to head straight to Russia instead of messing around with the half measure locations.

[International_Casanova]

Jasond Funny you posted about this topic as I ran into TravelBum and the black dude that's running the Pickup tour through Europe with Krause last week. We met at that burrito place across M1. I still haven't had problems pulling but girls have expressed how much they dislike tourist after I tell them I live here now. If you are only coming for a few days and don't have a good story good luck.

[Cambodian Creamsicle]

Kiev is the new Prague. Guys spamming Kreschatyuk all day every day. It's going to get to the point where you have to go to Belarus or Russia because most guys won't make the effort of getting a visa.

[Road_Less_Taken]

(09-17-2016 03:45 PM)Cambodian Creamsicle Wrote:  

Kiev is the new Prague. Guys spamming Kreschatyuk all day every day. It's going to get to the point where you have to go to Belarus or Russia because most guys won't make the effort of getting a visa.

Yeah thinking 20 years down the road you can't be super optimistic.

[NewMeta]

(09-17-2016 03:15 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

It's only saturated if those are the guys you're competing with, if you're doing the same thing they're doing.

Not necessarily, they are no competition in terms of what I bring to the table but that isnt the issue they raise. The issue is that they create a more harder environment to meet women, bitch shields are raised, suspicions are high, girls start to walk around with company or avoid the hotspot high traffic areas and overall raises female entitlement.

I would simply say a daygame saturated city turns daygame, into the same dynamic as night game minus the benefits such as potential to get laid the same night.

[RBerkley]

(09-17-2016 02:24 PM)Kapostatus13 Wrote:  

This is one of the reasons why I hate this PUA bullshit, because its just telemarketing and spamming. Women do the choosing in the dating game, I wish people would get it by now. You should only really do approaches if she's looking at you, or she is your type and have a gut feeling about it. Just spamming is fucking retarded, I hope they pass laws and make this illegal. Let the women do the choosing, then you go up to her and spit your game. Some weak ass men wont like what I have to say, but fuck them.

Put yourself in her shoes, she has to worry about being raped or attacked by men. Now worry about these sloppy aggressive losers approaching her. I wish men would actually learn the "Real Game", instead of this glorified hoe chasing spamming crap.

What is this and the Victorian-era mindset? A real woman wants to be approached. Period.

I've noticed that in my intimate experimentation with a Polish chick, age mid-20s, she would be very submissive when I fondle her bare naked, thick and nice soft bumper.

However, despite what Canadians say, the Polish chick CONSENTED because she previously discussed that her thick ass came from her Mama's genes while I was performing some foreplay on her back and ass, and she knew that once she gave me the green light to touch her in the right places, it was consent...She even laughed at my clown game, and her laughter was proof that a real woman, not a neurotic Canadian woman, wants a man to take the initiative.

However, with these Victorian "street harassment" and "affirmative consent" crap in the feministe-zones of the Anglosphere, it is inevitable that many PUAs will be flocking to Eastern Europe where there isn't anti-Roosh and anti-male hysteria.

What men should be careful of is not the fear of random PUAs flooding the street with Mystery's pick-up lines found on the VH1 show, but the Beta-bwoys, Beta-Buck$$$ manginas and redheads who will bring their proverbial social justice diseases in those countries, making it way harder to get laid.

These bitter Angloskanks love to spread the Rape Boogeyman propaganda to European women as if Germany was to invade Eastern Europe again, but the irony is that these same Angloskanks travel for Sex Tourism & Child Trafficking purposes to more dangerous countries that even a man with an army of armed men wouldn't even step foot into if he was even paid to travel there to stay for a day with 24 hour security chaperone and high security hotel room

[cascadecombo]

(09-17-2016 01:08 PM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  

Being a man of value never goes out of style.

When you're of value, and it's simple to recognize, there is a small chance your interest in your target will be viewed as a bother.

Not everyone who spams is of value or doesn't display it in proper manner in regards to the environment.

[Oneitis]

OP, you are part of the problem as well. Don't think you're any more entitled to daygame than the next man.

[Fightersword]

It's to be expected at least somewhat, though I think OP overstates it. It seems like every few years or so people using a certain type of game reach a tipping point, negatively affecting game in that avenue everywhere. Yeah you can be a standout guy among all the guys who approach her, but it's harder to be a standout guy when you're number 6 rather than the only one coming up to her in a while.

I remember some people saying the things about night game too a little while ago, so everyone started saying day game is the future. While day game clearly isn't saturated to the degree night game is, as more and more people latch onto it it will become harder even if you're a step above everyone else.

So you can either perfect your daygame to the point it doesn't matter, accept the slowly diminishing returns (though depending on your area you may be totally fine) or find the next avenue to stick out in. And as more avenues open up, saturation should dissipate in daygame as people start to gravitate more towards where they're getting the best results, as they'll have more choice.

[Lucky]

While I was in Berlin several months ago, I spotted no less than 10 guys out doing day game.

More than once it happened that I was about to approach a girl with some pet-shop game, and out of fucking nowhere an RSD automaton zoomed past me and approached the girl first with some aggressive direct game, ruining the girl for future approaches.

I spoke with some of them and they were all huge RSD nerds. Spam approachers.

Soon enough even day game won't be the same.

[nomadbrah]

Prague is a stagparty destionation and has been so for two decades. If you ask Czechs about it, they're low key fed up and dislike all the foreigners taking over their city centre, even so nothing is stopping anyone from taking the metro 4 stops west of the river and run daygame there or by the big lake the locals go to in the summer, of course here you need to speak some Czech preferably. Most locals don't live in the city center in any EE country, they live in big ugly Sovjet style apartments. In addition, one loss is another's gain, there are women from all over the world in Prague, Chinese, Americans, French, Russian, just as easy. It's not the PUAs, the drunken stags ruin it before that.

[HighSpeed_LowDrag]

(09-17-2016 06:20 PM)Lucky Wrote:  

While I was in Berlin several months ago, I spotted no less than 10 guys out doing day game.

More than once it happened that I was about to approach a girl with some pet-shop game, and out of fucking nowhere an RSD automaton zoomed past me and approached the girl first with some aggressive direct game, ruining the girl for future approaches.

I spoke with some of them and they were all huge RSD nerds. Spam approachers.

Soon enough even day game won't be the same.

I had the exact same thing happen to me in Hamburg. Asked him about it afterwards - and of course he was an RSD spam approacher.

People say that daygame is too difficult for most people to make it mainstream as a way of approaching women, but I'm starting to wonder if it would take far less in the way of spam daygamers to ruin it as a whole than we might realize.

[Irish]

(09-17-2016 06:54 PM)HighSpeed_LowDrag Wrote:  

I had the exact same thing happen to me in Hamburg. Asked him about it afterwards - and of course he was an RSD spam approacher.

People say that daygame is too difficult for most people to make it mainstream as a way of approaching women, but I'm starting to wonder if it would take far less in the way of spam daygamers to ruin it as a whole than we might realize.

Daygame is difficult for normal guys.

Not for aspy weirdos with zero social acuity...

[The Breeze]

I don't know...

I think perhaps the issue is the quality, and sincerity of what is
being brought to the girl? If a woman in Prague or Krakow or Kiev
is swatting away approaching guys, like flies... then of COURSE she
will be hard to approach. She will be jaded, and hate every foreigner.

If she is already thinking... "oh shit.. here we go again." as soon as a
stranger appears in her personal space... then the guy standing there,
has basically nothing to offer her.

If you are casual... have something to say or offer of value... and have
your own shit together... perhaps the results may be much different.

[Tenerife]

I've been in Kiev doing daily street approaches for the past 1.5 months.

This city is absolutely saturated with daygamers and it's probably only going to get worse. The main street of Kreshchatik is of course completely overrun.

As for the OP's main concern, I agree that daygame is going to become less effective.

The fact that you approached her during the day is no longer going to be as special as it once was. The novelty of the approach itself has diminished a lot. The mindset I have is that I see a beautiful girl and I'm going to give it my shot. I have an opportunity to speak to a girl that I particularly fancy. I'm not hoping that she'll be overwhelmed by the novelty of it. I think it makes you stand out far more than a night approach or a message on tinder of course, but as more men start doing this, it will be less of a "once in a blue moon romantic event". At this point, it feels like you just have to appreciate the fact that you get access to the girl at all.

Here in Kiev, girls give out rejections like it's nothing. They aren't wowed by the fact you approached. Now girls still find it attractive that a guy has the balls to come up and talk to them, but blowouts are extremely common and women here who aren't interested aren't even phased.

The other thing is that the biggest competition you have for the top end girls isn't other daygamers. This almost makes me laugh. Here in Kiev, the biggest competition is 1. local dudes, even if they are ugly and poorly dressed 2. online game and 3. foreign students that study at universities

Online game is a far bigger threat than even a hoard of daygamers. Every girl here has an instagram and gets spam messaged daily. Many have tinder, badoo, or are getting hit up on VK or facebook by dudes offering to fly them to Turkey and pay for their vacation. When a girl can go on a date with a guy who is either 2 notches more attractive than you off a dating site, or get paid a full vacation by an ugly dude that will sponsor her, or perhaps get an attractive dude with cash, the daygamer fades into the background as just another option in a sea of options that any particular woman here has. This is particularly true of the upper tier, many of whom are locked down by the better quality local dudes.

I've talked to other guys here in Kiev that have been here before and they relate the same feeling that it has gotten more difficult, that you never used to see many guys doing daygame. Now it's an absolute free for all. But I also wonder how much of it is just the increased amount of online activity by girls.

The other day I was on a date with a girl I've been seeing here for a few weeks and hanging out with some of her friends at a cafe. She went to the pharmacy for 5 minutes to get something for her friend. We were on a really random street that was almost deserted. When she came back she said a Slovakian guy had approached her and asked her for her number. That was in the middle of nowhere.

There have been some pretty hilarious experiences here when the RVF crew has daygamed in a pack. It becomes a clusterfuck real quickly when more than a few dudes are daygaming in one spot.

[Brodiaga]

I was in Odessa recently, walked down Arcadia during the day and saw at least three daygame approaches in a row by different "PUAs", all in Russian. I am surprised how common it is over there to approach girls on the street. It's a lot less common in the US, even in a place like NYC.