[pancakemouse]

Thank god I live in a city (San Francisco) where no one does daygame. Almost makes up for the complete lack of talent and awful male:female ratio here.

[polar]

When I was in Prague a few months ago, I personally shook hands with about ten guys doing day game.

[Pokerbaby]

Simple solution to all of this...go to smaller cities to day game.

[Armada]

(09-18-2016 12:21 AM)corsega Wrote:  

Thank god I live in San Francisco

[pancakemouse]

(09-18-2016 12:39 AM)Armada Wrote:  

(09-18-2016 12:21 AM)corsega Wrote:  

Thank god I live in San Francisco

After living here, all other cities are on easy mode. It's the best place to learn game.

[GlobalMan]

(09-17-2016 05:03 PM)NewMeta Wrote:  

(09-17-2016 03:15 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

It's only saturated if those are the guys you're competing with, if you're doing the same thing they're doing.

Not necessarily, they are no competition in terms of what I bring to the table but that isnt the issue they raise.

Then in that case you look to the manner and locations you're going about it in order to maximize the return. If you have more to offer but yet you're doing the same things in the same places as everyone else it's not going to work well, not in a tough place.

Can you lay out a typical scenario of your daygaming?

Are we talking about standing in Old Town Square and spam approaching whatever good pussy comes by and asking about pet shops? Are you talking about approaching the girl next to you in a cafe or book store? There are vast differences. What is a typical afternoon?

The best daygaming, in these more difficult locations, comes from you out doing something you would want to do anyway, and speaking to girls you encounter along the way who present good opportunities. A girl gets the sense that it has happened "naturally" (even though you know it is not) and that makes her slightly more open.

Stopping girls in the street as they are walking is not going to work as well in places where girls get hassled all the time in such situations- whether that's Prague or Buenos Aires. Instead, you either need to create the "natural" scenario to lower the shield, or be doing enough different and interesting things in your day which put you in situations where these opportunities will present themselves.

Very often with dudes who are solely out to spam approaches it is painfully obvious to the girl that is whats going on- even if she did not see him at all before he approached - especially in a place like you are in.

In the end, there will always be more competition to a degree in the more accessible EE locations, Prague has been turned inside out and upside down a million times over (and this has been true for years, not a recent effect of so called PUA's), and on top of that you have stag parties and high end brothels.

If you want something more fresh you are far too West still to find it. If you want to be in Prague (or similar Easternish European locations) you have to not do what everyone else is doing.

[serpico]

(09-17-2016 01:01 PM)jasond Wrote:  

Having spent the last 3 years in Eastern Europe, I've noticed that the region is near a tipping point with regards to daygame.

There are now so many PUAs roaming the streets of major cities, that region-wide bitch shields are on the rise.

It's not surprising. Daygame is not meant to be done in volume. If a girl is approached once in a blue moon, she may view it as a pleasant surprise. Once an hour though, and it becomes quite weird.

I used to think it was impossible for PUAs to ruin entire cities of 1 million plus inhabitants. Not anymore. Take Prague, for instance, where I've lived this past year. Population about 1.2 million. In any city, I'd estimate 2% of the population to be attractive girls 7+. (1 million people means 500,000 women, approximately 100,000 of women of dating age, 20% of whom [about 20,000] would be attractive)

I would estimate about 50 daygame PUAs living in Prague at any moment (half foreign, half local), 20 of whom are approaching on any given day. 10 approaches a day * 20 PUAs would yield 200 approaches a day, or over 70,000 approaches a year in the city.

So it's clear that any good-looking girl who lives or work in the center of the city has already been approached multiple times. Many girls have told me that I'm the 3rd or 4th guy that's talked to them that day. Some are now even fearful to walk on the main shopping street, calling it dangerous. One girl even told me she started going to therapy, as she's in a happy relationship, and doesn't understand what signals she's giving out that causes men to keep talking to her on the street.

My friends who live in Kiev, Warsaw, Wroclaw, and Belgrade tell me similar stories.

It makes sense. I'd say the daygame skillset started being promoted around 2011, with Roosh's work and others. Now, 5 years later, there are hundreds of guys semi-proficient at it, and forums like this disseminate information about good places to go. So pickup has become a bit of an arm's race, where you need to constantly develop new skills and techniques to stay ahead of the pack. What worked so well in 2011 doesn't yield the same results in 2016.

Which is quite sad, because daygame in Eastern Europe used to be a goldmine for meaning quality women.

Lived in region for last six years, which pretty much covers the 'daygame era' from it's beginnings to it's current overly marketed level. Definitely Places like Prague, Warsaw and to lesser extent Budapest are over-farmed, often by 'unskilled' guys who go on holidays there having been sold the shangrila story of EE and spam approach clumsily. Many will just be there on some 'training wheel' so will be pushing themselves to do 20 approaches a day or what have you. Often with no subtlety or class.

However i'd say this isn't just a Daygame thing. When i arrived in 2010 being Western was still a high status thing. Now if anything id say its a negative. The former Soviet Union / Warsaw Pact countries had low self esteem about their culture after the break up of the Communism. They all looked to the West as the guiding light. Now 25 years later they are, quite reasonably, rediscovering that their original pre-communist cultures had great value, beyond what is being offered by the West.

Put these two phenonemas together and it starts to look tacky for a girl of value to her peergroup have a succesion of foreign boyfriends. 7's and 8's in places like Prague get approached all the time by these often clumsy guys. Whereas five years ago, a girl telling her friend 'i met this great Australian guy, he just came up and told me he found me attractive on the street' would be a cool thing, now it's becoming 'oh youre going out with one of those guys'.

Having said all that, you can still stand out, and there are cool smaller cities which are still a bit less jaded. But the places that are 'on the map' of the modern Daygame Gurus are all rapidly becoming done-in IMHO.

[PainPositive]

I agree with the OP as many many guys do on this forum. I talk to a lot of guys in WhatsApp group messages and can tell you shit is getting worse all over and daygame spammers are the culprits. In my city (Belgrade) the main shopping street is completely played out. Girls get approached 4 or 5 times if they walk the 1km length of it.

Since daygamers see this they have now spilled over into other random streets nearby. I was sitting on the patio of an outdoor restaurant near hotel Moscow and watched a dude open two sets who were sitting down eating. He mostly just took out his phone and forced it into their hands. Not only was it shit game but he reminded me of a RSD spammer.

I've held some sort of deep resentment for these guys and have been trying to understand why I hate them so much. I think "well they are doing what they need to get laid, more power to them" but now my opinion is starting to change. This sort of mass spamming is why I hate these kinds of daygamers.

Perhaps it's the model... Krauser (who I've seen out in Belgrade) once said his open to bang ratio was about 1 in 30 and he's supposedly one of the best in the world. Imagine guys who have to approach 1-200 to get a bang.

All in all I thing street spamming is a joke and while it can be effective in getting girls pumping and dumping is making girls salty and raising suspicions of foreigners everywhere. Its certainly hurting my city.

[NewMeta]

Theres a street attraction bootcamp happening in Wroclaw right now, im actually watching these guys from inside a coffee shop walk round in circles in the rynek (all with leather jackets btw its actually fucking hilarious how typical this stereotype is) in groups of 2/3 doing nothing because its raining and no one is out. Money well spent lads, goodluck.

[Dantes]

(09-17-2016 05:28 PM)Oneitis Wrote:  

OP, you are part of the problem as well. Don't think you're any more entitled to daygame than the next man.

I don't get the sense that the OP is claiming entitlement. He is making an observation based experience. The OP has a lot of experience living and daygaming in EE , so I value his report.

I have about 5 years of daygame experience in several countries. When I started out, there was a novelty factor. You demonstrated value just by having the balls to make the approach, as long as you were relatively attractive and had fundamental social skills. The dynamics have changed, you need to bring more to the table than just starting up a conversation.

Five years ago I was wrong in my prediction that Daygame would remain a niche type of Game and that those who were proficient would reap the spoils in a way that nondaygamers would never know. The amount of men who are now proficient has exponentially increased. It has become more mainstream and I underestimated how many men would have the courage for it. With that said, few stay in this type of Game for the long haul and those who do are the ones that have had success. Most get discouraged and move onto something else.

I was in Kiev with Tenerife and others this summer. I have never seen so many guys approaching during the day. I thought Wroclaw three years ago was saturated. Kiev is now the Daygame Mecca. In 2012 there were very few proficient guys running game. Now there are many. An attractive girl cannot walk on K street without being hit on.

There is certainly an effect on how girls respond to being approached during the day despite whatever inherit value you think you have.

Online in Kiev was more fruitful for me than Daygame. This says a lot considering Daygame is my strongpoint.

In the past few years I have also noticed a backlash on guys who approach during the day. Is the guy who approaches 5 women per day any different than one who fires out spam messages on okcupid, with regard to changing the dating dynamics in a given city? Or the guy who pumps and dumps sluts in a nightclub? That are several factors that contribute to the changing dynamics in a given city. Daygame is one, but there are many more.

To each his own. Our goal is the same, perhaps by different methods. One method isn't better than another. You go with what works for you and your lifestyle.

[NewMeta]

(09-18-2016 07:57 AM)NewMeta Wrote:  

Theres a street attraction bootcamp happening in Wroclaw right now, im actually watching these guys from inside a coffee shop walk round in circles in the rynek (all with leather jackets btw its actually fucking hilarious how typical this stereotype is) in groups of 2/3 doing nothing because its raining and no one is out. Money well spent lads, goodluck.

Further to the above, another RVF member came along to observe this when I texted him and we just asked a few of them outright. Some were taken back and shy to state they were gaming, but yes they admitted that they were gaming and that they paid for this bootcamp.

Oh and its not just street attraction, it is also RSD, and we must have observed at least 10-20 obvious participants in the Rynek alone (ok I really must stress the use of the leather jacket is absurd).

The timing of this thread along with today is crazy, I've always seen PUA's round here but this the first instance ive seen of 2 bootcamps running at the same time, in the exact same location. Whats more is that it is RAINING, so theres even less traffic out and about, they are probably queuing up to hit on the few girls that are out and about. I wonder what goes through the minds of these girls getting hit on by multiple foreigners in english in the space of an hour all of whom are wearing leather jackets

[Comte De St. Germain]

This is why if I'm going to be in an area for a long time or a repeat visitor I build up a social circle. Make friends with a one or two locals and you'll be hanging with hotter girls on average than the day game spammers hang with.

[Cattle Rustler]

Are these spam approachers suited up?

I can attest to saying that RSD guys do suck, they were running "game" (their version of it) in the CBD area of my town.

[Gpx90210]

Good question.

I think there may be some truth to what you're saying, HOWEVER, the bigger enemy is not your fellow brothern. The main issue is the creepy low life migrants who surround and harass women and the drug dealers who follow them wanting to fuck and constantly harassing them. So partly true. But the enemy is not us, it's them.

More to come on my Amsterdam data sheet i will post on the train to Brussels today.

[Schlep]

Just had dinner with a woman here in Kiev who told me she had two men approach her in an hour of walking to meet me. One man following her and making her scared. Kept asking for her number.

[Rocha]

(09-18-2016 08:58 AM)Dantes Wrote:  

I was in Kiev with Tenerife and others this summer. I have never seen so many guys approaching during the day. I thought Wroclaw three years ago was saturated. Kiev is now the Daygame Mecca. In 2012 there were very few proficient guys running game. Now there are many. An attractive girl cannot walk on K street without being hit on.

Kreschatyk was always a street where girls where constantly approached, mostly by Turks, local guys, and a few other foreigners, many also sit in the benches waiting for some guy to come and talk to them. I did not notice any particular change in the dynamics in the last time I was there (May), nonetheless I thrust you guys accounts of gangs of western spam approachers roaming the streets, next month I will see this with my own eyes and will report about it.

But I would recommend these guys to keep it has discreet as possible and not very aggressive in their intents, still many Azov Batallion and Pravy Sektor guys roam around the area too. Better for them to not mess with the wrong girl...

Though I think Kreschatyk sucks for daygame...everyone walking fast and busy and too many distractions, militias, cops, guys hitting the punching machines, flash mobs of breakdancers, Turks...and more Turks...

[NewMeta]

(09-18-2016 09:25 AM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

Are these spam approachers suited up?

I can attest to saying that RSD guys do suck, they were running "game" (their version of it) in the CBD area of my town.

Nope, black leather jackets, dark jeans, whatever shoes they could scramble together. Everytime

[zatara]

(09-18-2016 01:46 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

The best daygaming, in these more difficult locations, comes from you out doing something you would want to do anyway, and speaking to girls you encounter along the way who present good opportunities. A girl gets the sense that it has happened "naturally" (even though you know it is not) and that makes her slightly more open.

Stopping girls in the street as they are walking is not going to work as well in places where girls get hassled all the time in such situations- whether that's Prague or Buenos Aires. Instead, you either need to create the "natural" scenario to lower the shield, or be doing enough different and interesting things in your day which put you in situations where these opportunities will present themselves.

Very often with dudes who are solely out to spam approaches it is painfully obvious to the girl that is whats going on- even if she did not see him at all before he approached - especially in a place like you are in.

I completely agree with this. In my experience the best daygame is hitting on girls sitting next to you in coffee shops, who're waiting for a bus in line with you etc. It comes across as natural and not all forced.

The aspergersy RSD types who spam approach on the street by walking up to girls always just look very desperate to me. From talking to attractive female friends I think it just pisses off a lot of women too. Imagine if you couldn't walk 1km down a street without being approached by five fat women annoying you? It would get really old, really fast.

I've seen the leather jacket uniform thing in multiple countries too and it never ceases to amuse me. Its hilarious

[Cambodian Creamsicle]

I made fun of the Natural Lifestyles crew on youtube for all rocking the leather jacket uniform and James Marshall's response was that a blacket leather jacket is timeless lol.

[Half Century]

(09-17-2016 01:01 PM)jasond Wrote:  

Having spent the last 3 years in Eastern Europe, I've noticed that the region is near a tipping point with regards to daygame.

There are now so many PUAs roaming the streets of major cities, that region-wide bitch shields are on the rise.

It's not surprising. Daygame is not meant to be done in volume. If a girl is approached once in a blue moon, she may view it as a pleasant surprise. Once an hour though, and it becomes quite weird.

I used to think it was impossible for PUAs to ruin entire cities of 1 million plus inhabitants. Not anymore. Take Prague, for instance, where I've lived this past year. Population about 1.2 million. In any city, I'd estimate 2% of the population to be attractive girls 7+. (1 million people means 500,000 women, approximately 100,000 of women of dating age, 20% of whom [about 20,000] would be attractive)

I would estimate about 50 daygame PUAs living in Prague at any moment (half foreign, half local), 20 of whom are approaching on any given day. 10 approaches a day * 20 PUAs would yield 200 approaches a day, or over 70,000 approaches a year in the city.

So it's clear that any good-looking girl who lives or work in the center of the city has already been approached multiple times. Many girls have told me that I'm the 3rd or 4th guy that's talked to them that day. Some are now even fearful to walk on the main shopping street, calling it dangerous. One girl even told me she started going to therapy, as she's in a happy relationship, and doesn't understand what signals she's giving out that causes men to keep talking to her on the street.

My friends who live in Kiev, Warsaw, Wroclaw, and Belgrade tell me similar stories.

It makes sense. I'd say the daygame skillset started being promoted around 2011, with Roosh's work and others. Now, 5 years later, there are hundreds of guys semi-proficient at it, and forums like this disseminate information about good places to go. So pickup has become a bit of an arm's race, where you need to constantly develop new skills and techniques to stay ahead of the pack. What worked so well in 2011 doesn't yield the same results in 2016.

Which is quite sad, because daygame in Eastern Europe used to be a goldmine for meaning quality women.

Holy f-ck, I used to live in Prague and Poland, total 5 years! Too bad to hear what is happening now because I was thinking of re-visiting these cities.

I never remember guys doing obvious PUA cold street approaches during the day, but that was mid 90's to 2001. Most of it was night game in Prague, and there were plenty of venues for mostly American expats who started coming over post Velvet Revolution '89. Lots of new American bars, coffee shops, restaurants, live classic rock music bars, jazz clubs, rave parties, language school parties, etc.

In general, compared to previous years, honeymoon was over around '96. I think Praguers were starting to get fed up with the frat boy Animal House atmosphere the new stream of American expats created. They lorded it over with their dollars. Lots of rudeness towards foreigners began to manifest.

Czech Prague girls were gradually becoming cynical: bait and switch, sudden personality changes, defiant flakes. Better to pursue Czech or Slovak girls from smaller cities who were living in Prague. They were not so jaded.

You didn't need to run up to girls in the street with your PUA routine!! You didn't need Roosh's book or any other pick-up method book! It was incredibly easy to get a date, compared to the U.S.A. Just go to a bar or coffee shop or hot night spot, or at the school you taught English, through social circle, etc.
And, at least 75% of the women were 9's or 10's!!!! Fashion model level hotness everywhere. They really liked Americans and other expats from English-speaking countries- of course, they got free English conversation lessons.
Back in the mid-90's - 2001, You didn't need to dress up, get a haircut, wear cologne. What are you, a businessman? Some guys did their laundry in their bathtub and dried it on the radiator, walked around unshaven, long hair, unkempt- no one gave a flying f-ck.

[Constitution45]

I hear this a lot even from people who said that Moscow has now been spoiled unless you go to the dog end suburbs. I never found this to be the case, I noticed that Prague changed a lot in the period between 2008-2013. A lot of African street vendors and strip clubs seem to pop out of nowhere. However I still found it very easy to meet girls in these EE cities.

[Half Century]

(09-17-2016 07:59 PM)Irish Wrote:  

(09-17-2016 06:54 PM)HighSpeed_LowDrag Wrote:  

I had the exact same thing happen to me in Hamburg. Asked him about it afterwards - and of course he was an RSD spam approacher.

People say that daygame is too difficult for most people to make it mainstream as a way of approaching women, but I'm starting to wonder if it would take far less in the way of spam daygamers to ruin it as a whole than we might realize.

Daygame is difficult for normal guys.

Not for aspy weirdos with zero social acuity...

How is Ireland for day game? I was thinking of going there. I am American with lots of Irish blood.

[Half Century]

(09-17-2016 08:52 PM)Tenerife Wrote:  

I've been in Kiev doing daily street approaches for the past 1.5 months.

This city is absolutely saturated with daygamers and it's probably only going to get worse. The main street of Kreshchatik is of course completely overrun.

As for the OP's main concern, I agree that daygame is going to become less effective.

The fact that you approached her during the day is no longer going to be as special as it once was. The novelty of the approach itself has diminished a lot. The mindset I have is that I see a beautiful girl and I'm going to give it my shot. I have an opportunity to speak to a girl that I particularly fancy. I'm not hoping that she'll be overwhelmed by the novelty of it. I think it makes you stand out far more than a night approach or a message on tinder of course, but as more men start doing this, it will be less of a "once in a blue moon romantic event". At this point, it feels like you just have to appreciate the fact that you get access to the girl at all.

Here in Kiev, girls give out rejections like it's nothing. They aren't wowed by the fact you approached. Now girls still find it attractive that a guy has the balls to come up and talk to them, but blowouts are extremely common and women here who aren't interested aren't even phased.

The other thing is that the biggest competition you have for the top end girls isn't other daygamers. This almost makes me laugh. Here in Kiev, the biggest competition is 1. local dudes, even if they are ugly and poorly dressed 2. online game and 3. foreign students that study at universities

Online game is a far bigger threat than even a hoard of daygamers. Every girl here has an instagram and gets spam messaged daily. Many have tinder, badoo, or are getting hit up on VK or facebook by dudes offering to fly them to Turkey and pay for their vacation. When a girl can go on a date with a guy who is either 2 notches more attractive than you off a dating site, or get paid a full vacation by an ugly dude that will sponsor her, or perhaps get an attractive dude with cash, the daygamer fades into the background as just another option in a sea of options that any particular woman here has. This is particularly true of the upper tier, many of whom are locked down by the better quality local dudes.

I've talked to other guys here in Kiev that have been here before and they relate the same feeling that it has gotten more difficult, that you never used to see many guys doing daygame. Now it's an absolute free for all. But I also wonder how much of it is just the increased amount of online activity by girls.

The other day I was on a date with a girl I've been seeing here for a few weeks and hanging out with some of her friends at a cafe. She went to the pharmacy for 5 minutes to get something for her friend. We were on a really random street that was almost deserted. When she came back she said a Slovakian guy had approached her and asked her for her number. That was in the middle of nowhere.

There have been some pretty hilarious experiences here when the RVF crew has daygamed in a pack. It becomes a clusterfuck real quickly when more than a few dudes are daygaming in one spot.

I was in Prague with my Polish girlfriend at a popular American bar, during the day. I went to take a leak, and within a minute she had been approached by some local Czech or other European man. When I got back to the table, he was just scurrying away. This was around '99.

[nomadbrah]

(09-18-2016 09:24 AM)Comte De St. Germain Wrote:  

This is why if I'm going to be in an area for a long time or a repeat visitor I build up a social circle. Make friends with a one or two locals and you'll be hanging with hotter girls on average than the day game spammers hang with.

What's a long time for you? Time for an updated version of your social circle datasheet?

[serpico]

(09-18-2016 11:06 AM)Half Century Wrote:  

Holy f-ck, I used to live in Prague and Poland, total 5 years! Too bad to hear what is happening now because I was thinking of re-visiting these cities.

I never remember guys doing obvious PUA cold street approaches during the day, but that was mid 90's to 2001. Most of it was night game in Prague, and there were plenty of venues for mostly American expats who started coming over post Velvet Revolution '89. Lots of new American bars, coffee shops, restaurants, live classic rock music bars, jazz clubs, rave parties, language school parties, etc.

In general, compared to previous years, honeymoon was over around '96. I think Praguers were starting to get fed up with the frat boy Animal House atmosphere the new stream of American expats created. They lorded it over with their dollars. Lots of rudeness towards foreigners began to manifest.

Czech Prague girls were gradually becoming cynical: bait and switch, sudden personality changes, defiant flakes. Better to pursue Czech or Slovak girls from smaller cities who were living in Prague. They were not so jaded.

You didn't need to run up to girls in the street with your PUA routine!! You didn't need Roosh's book or any other pick-up method book! It was incredibly easy to get a date, compared to the U.S.A. Just go to a bar or coffee shop or hot night spot, or at the school you taught English, through social circle, etc.
And, at least 75% of the women were 9's or 10's!!!! Fashion model level hotness everywhere. They really liked Americans and other expats from English-speaking countries- of course, they got free English conversation lessons.
Back in the mid-90's - 2001, You didn't need to dress up, get a haircut, wear cologne. What are you, a businessman? Some guys did their laundry in their bathtub and dried it on the radiator, walked around unshaven, long hair, unkempt- no one gave a flying f-ck.

And of course, this was pre-smartphones, Tinder, modern internet dating and social media, as well as modern PUA. So yes, social circle and nights out were really the only way people met. I'd bite your hand off to go back to those times myself.

Maybe i'm just a nostalgic, but in that time it seemed far easier to make genuine connections with people once you got to know them. Now an attractive girl, can go for a shit, take her phone out and scroll through thirsty guys on Tinder for ego gratification. The surplus of choice that they now enjoy, makes a lot of them act in a far more shallow way IMHO. Plus when people were out for drinks, coffee, in parties or nights out they didnt have mobile phones to text, check facebook, answer calls and generally be disconnected to the moment on, but i digress...