[Going strong]

If you had, say, between 20.000 and 50.000 USD, and wanted to get a Permanent Residency visa, to be able to go live in some "interesting" (read poosy-paradise) country: Which country and visa option would you choose? I mean, what would be your options? Which "good" countries offer permanent residency for first-worlders with this kind of money? What are the application processes?

(I am not asking about millionaire residency visas here)

I heard people can get retirement or investment visas quite cheap in the Phils or Colombia, for example... what about Vietnam or Mexico or Morocco or Thailand?

Reason I ask is, more and more I realize long-term stays and patient, clever social-circle game are the way to go. One just needs to find the right country, and get the right visa (in order to be allowed to live, buy house, work, open bank accounts, drive in his new country...).

[Lechon]

You don't need to pay 20-50K for a permanent visa to live in pussy paradises, unless you feel the urge to subsidize local officials. That's 20-50K less pussy and pimpin' right there, bad deal. In the Philippines or Cambodia you can just stamp your passport now and then. Unlimited extensions, no problem. In Cambodia you can just send your passport to an agency and pay them for it (or have them pick it up at your house for $2), in the Philippines you actually need to go to the visa office physically. The pain and humiliation!!! I know.. I've been there, bro. But you get half year extensions with a decent passport, so the burden is definitely bearable.

In Thailand the easiest thing is to get an educational visa from some minimal language learning or educational effort, because they will actually chuck you out every 3rd month (which is an excellent opportunity to enjoy some sidepuss in one of the competing neighbouring paradises, of course). Or, if you're getting long in the tooth (50+) and have a moderate amount of savings and pension, you can get a retirment visa.

You'll need...

- Security deposit of THB 800,000 in a Thai Bank Account for 2 months prior to the visa application.
- Monthly income or pension of at least THB 65,000. An affidavit from the foreign embassy or consulate has to be obtained as proof of the income.

http://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-visa/...t-Visa.php

[Going strong]

Thanks for the data, Lechon (lechon's a food they eat in the Philippines, right, some tasty pork food?)... Well, thing is if you want to buy an apartment or invest in some local business, you do need more than a tourist visa. To protect your investment. You don't want to run the risk of being deported someday, if you have invested somewhere...

For example, I heard some countries grant you a "retiree" visa at 35+ years old, if you have some money to put and "freeze" in a local bank account... What about Vietnam, Indonesia or Central America? Russia?

[Lechon]

I got a business visa in Cambodia just by paying $30 for it at the border (instead of $25) and claiming I was doing research for a future business (which I was... kind of, everything is relative), so it's not necessarily that hard. A lot of places let you own apartments regardless of your visa status, but few countries let you own land (ie. first floor and lots) even if you have a permanent visa. You usually need to become a naturalized citizen for that, which is next to impossible outside of most Western countries. Visa rules constantly change, are complicated and differ widely, so it's better to start with a country and look into the specifics. There are a lot, especially if you want to invest/do business. I don't know much about the countries you mentioned.

Lechon is basically whole roasted chicken and pork, which they love in the Philippines. Good stuff. :-)

[Driesinator]

Maybe Ukraine, but apparently it's better for older guys.

I'm a EU citizen so i can move freely to other European countries, a salary like that is considered upper middle class in countries like Poland and Romania, so that's probably where i'd go.

[PainPositive]

You guys should also look at property. I've been told by immigration here in Serbia that if you own property you can be granted permanent residency. After two years of permanent residence you can apply for a passport/ citizenship. You don't even have to own... joint ownership is sufficient.

For example if my cousin signs over a small amount of his property to me just for the sake of my residency status I can get a passport and then sign ownership back to him without losing citizenship. This all came from the immigration officer in Belgrade so unless he's talking out his ass this seems like the easiest way to gain resident status (and eventual citizenship) in Serbia.

I wonder if there is a minimum amount though. Can a person purchase 1000 euros woth of land and get permanent residence? Seems too easy.

[samsamsam]

PainPositive,

Interesting. I just wonder who I could trust in certain parts of the world to do that. At least you have a relative.

Wonder if RVF guys just pooled to get a property to get access to residency if that would work. Would be sweet!

[Phoenix]

Most countries have an 'investors visa', whereby if you invest a certain amount in the country, you can get permanent residence. For instance, in Japan, a typical way of settling there indefinitely, if you have some money, is just to buy an existing bar/cafe etc from someone, and get a local lawyer to do all the paperwork for you. I forget the capital threshold, but I think its about $50K. I'm sure a bunch of middlemen will bite off their loot too though on top of that. I expect its a similar situation in other places, like East Europe. Generally you need to open a business with a certain minimum amount of capital, and you need a physical office, and you need the company to submit yearly returns etc.

[Going strong]

By the way, relevant to this thread, I found a goldmine site (in French language), about expatriation costs and opportunities, for living and investing abroad... if anyone knows of a similar website, in English, please give a link...

http://www.wproject.fr/les-fiches-pays/
http://www.wproject.fr/pays/thailande/thailande/

[samsamsam]

You can try this tool to translate the pages.

http://itools.com/tool/google-translate-...translator

[Seadog]

I was actually meaning to post a thread along these similar lines as I've been researching the topic myself. I'm on your side with the visa thing, yes you can go back and forth every 1-3 months, but if you want to essentially live somewhere for years, that becomes a pretty big hassle. Also as these countries try and legitimize, an overly keen border agent could make the argument you're spending too much time there to be a tourist, since you've been there every day for 3 years except 12 when you left to renew. That sort of thing isn't uncommon in the US/Canada. My goal would be to have a place in the sun near a beach, then be able to leave for a few months each year to work where ever.

International Living is a website targeting old people who want to retire abroad. One of the old guys at my old job spent all day on it. There is a ton of great info there. For instance this link is the visa info on Honduras where I was just in a couple months ago.

http://internationalliving.com/countries/honduras/visa/

Honduras is actually pretty good. Residency with a 50k investment, 1500/mo retirement income, or 2500/mo other income (rentist they call it). No restriction on foreign land ownership. A bit poor and a bit violent, but yah... Roatan is good.

Now, red flags for a lot of other countries are like you said age is a big one, a lot of them need you to be 50+. Others is land ownership as a foreigner. Indonesia since you mentioned it and I lived there as a permanent resident, you basically need to be a citizen to own land. You can marry a girl and get PR the same as I had through work, buy land with her, but she owns it, and you're at her mercy. Essentially you bought her the land. Mexico is similar although you can get bank trusts or something along those lines, but they also have retirement visas.

I never really understood why all the fuss. Countries are so pissy about protecting jobs, but then if someone wants to do the exact opposite, that is show up with a suit case full of cash, get a place and just spend all day reading/biking/chasing ass/eating out and spending said cash over the course of a year or two indirectly creating jobs, they're equally pissy.

[Comte De St. Germain]

(06-18-2015 09:12 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

PainPositive,

Interesting. I just wonder who I could trust in certain parts of the world to do that. At least you have a relative.

Wonder if RVF guys just pooled to get a property to get access to residency if that would work. Would be sweet!

I've been actually thinking about investing in Serbia once I have a job, and if some time in the next 5-6 years RVF guys want to buy an Inn, apartment complex, or hotel together to gain citizenship that would be amazing. Count me in if anybody wants to do this. Of course well repped members who can be vouched for.

[PainPositive]

(06-19-2015 11:29 PM)hwuzhere Wrote:  

(06-18-2015 09:12 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

PainPositive,

Interesting. I just wonder who I could trust in certain parts of the world to do that. At least you have a relative.

Wonder if RVF guys just pooled to get a property to get access to residency if that would work. Would be sweet!

I've been actually thinking about investing in Serbia once I have a job, and if some time in the next 5-6 years RVF guys want to buy an Inn, apartment complex, or hotel together to gain citizenship that would be amazing. Count me in if anybody wants to do this. Of course well repped members who can be vouched for.

You guys may not have to pool your resources. I think the minimum amount is very low. I have to verify this with immigration still but I'm already looking at plots of land for $1000.

The benefits of having a Serbian passport includes freedom of travel to both Brazil and Russia.

[DaveR]

(06-20-2015 02:24 PM)PainPositive Wrote:  

The benefits of having a Serbian passport includes freedom of travel to both Brazil and Russia.

But to get it you'll need to speak Serbian, and don't they require applicants to prove renunciation of their existing citizenship(s)?

[Going strong]

(06-20-2015 02:47 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(06-20-2015 02:24 PM)PainPositive Wrote:  

The benefits of having a Serbian passport includes freedom of travel to both Brazil and Russia.

But to get it you'll need to speak Serbian, and don't they require applicants to prove renunciation of their existing citizenship(s)?

They would actually require you to speak Serbian? fluently??
But, what kind of international investor speaks Serbian?? except some Croatian arm-dealer, nobody does! Doesn't make economics sense, for them to offer citizenship exclusively for Serbian-speaking investors...

Still, thanks for the piece of info: I will research the subject of this Serbian land-owning opportunity...

[DaveR]

(06-20-2015 03:01 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

(06-20-2015 02:47 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(06-20-2015 02:24 PM)PainPositive Wrote:  

The benefits of having a Serbian passport includes freedom of travel to both Brazil and Russia.

But to get it you'll need to speak Serbian, and don't they require applicants to prove renunciation of their existing citizenship(s)?

They would actually require you to speak Serbian? fluently??
But, what kind of international investor speaks Serbian?? except some Croatian arm-dealer, nobody does! Doesn't make economics sense, for them to offer citizenship exclusively for Serbian-speaking investors...

Still, thanks for the piece of info: I will research the subject of this Serbian land-owning opportunity...

Most European countries only grant citizenship to those have at least intermediate knowledge of the national language. Residency is usually obtained quite easily, but not citizenship. It isn't something that countries hand out easily.

Considering that Serbia is expected to become an EU member state in about five years, they will be under a lot of pressure from Brussels not to hand out citizenship easily. Malta, for example, charges 600k Euros for their citizenship-by-investment programme and Cyprus requires an investment of 5m Euros.

[PainPositive]

(06-20-2015 03:38 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(06-20-2015 03:01 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

(06-20-2015 02:47 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(06-20-2015 02:24 PM)PainPositive Wrote:  

The benefits of having a Serbian passport includes freedom of travel to both Brazil and Russia.

But to get it you'll need to speak Serbian, and don't they require applicants to prove renunciation of their existing citizenship(s)?

They would actually require you to speak Serbian? fluently??
But, what kind of international investor speaks Serbian?? except some Croatian arm-dealer, nobody does! Doesn't make economics sense, for them to offer citizenship exclusively for Serbian-speaking investors...

Still, thanks for the piece of info: I will research the subject of this Serbian land-owning opportunity...

Most European countries only grant citizenship to those have at least intermediate knowledge of the national language. Residency is usually obtained quite easily, but not citizenship. It isn't something that countries hand out easily.

Considering that Serbia is expected to become an EU member state in about five years, they will be under a lot of pressure from Brussels not to hand out citizenship easily. Malta, for example, charges 600k Euros for their citizenship-by-investment programme and Cyprus requires an investment of 5m Euros.

And Spain only requires 150k... none of that has anything to do with Serbia's immigration law though. The information is hard to find online. I'll go back to immigration on Monday and see what I can find out.

[DaveR]

(06-20-2015 03:50 PM)PainPositive Wrote:  

And Spain only requires 150k... none of that has anything to do with Serbia's immigration law though. The information is hard to find online. I'll go back to immigration on Monday and see what I can find out.

Spain's programme is for residency, not citizenship. You are confusing two very different concepts.

I would be very interested to know if Serbian citizenship could be obtained without relinquishing one's existing citizenship. I think that will be the deal breaker for most of us.

[Going strong]

(06-20-2015 03:54 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(06-20-2015 03:50 PM)PainPositive Wrote:  

And Spain only requires 150k... none of that has anything to do with Serbia's immigration law though. The information is hard to find online. I'll go back to immigration on Monday and see what I can find out.

Spain's programme is for residency, not citizenship. You are confusing two very different concepts.

I would be very interested to know if Serbian citizenship could be obtained without relinquishing one's existing citizenship. I think that will be the deal breaker for most of us.

Usually, unless I am mistaken, country X has no way of knowing for a fact whether you have renounced citizenship in country Y.

It's like what's going on now in... some eastern part of Ukraine... Russia doesn't know who asked for a Russian passport but still has Ukrainian citizenship, and Ukraine doesn't know who may have a Russian passport on top of Ukrainian citizenship.

(I mean, just say a lie. Say, sure, you have renounced citizenship in your country. Who's going to phone your foreign office to check on that? more important, who would answer such an inquiry?)

[DaveR]

(06-20-2015 05:01 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

(06-20-2015 03:54 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(06-20-2015 03:50 PM)PainPositive Wrote:  

And Spain only requires 150k... none of that has anything to do with Serbia's immigration law though. The information is hard to find online. I'll go back to immigration on Monday and see what I can find out.

Spain's programme is for residency, not citizenship. You are confusing two very different concepts.

I would be very interested to know if Serbian citizenship could be obtained without relinquishing one's existing citizenship. I think that will be the deal breaker for most of us.

Usually, unless I am mistaken, country X has no way of knowing for a fact whether you have renounced citizenship in country Y.

It's like what's going on now in... some eastern part of Ukraine... Russia doesn't know who asked for a Russian passport but still has Ukrainian citizenship, and Ukraine doesn't know who may have a Russian passport on top of Ukrainian citizenship.

(I mean, just say a lie. Say, sure, you have renounced citizenship in your country. Who's going to phone your foreign office to check on that? more important, who would answer such an inquiry?)

In the case of Russia and Ukraine, the Ukrainian side cancels citizenship automatically when Russia informs the Ukrainian embassy. New citizens are also required to submit proof to Russia's migration authorities within 12 months. Many of those refugees don't understand that they have that obligation. Also, the process of cancelling their Ukrainian citizenship takes a long time because the authorities issue notifications to appear at the Police first. So while some may think that they have managed to obtain a second citizenship, it is more likely only a temporary situation.

According to Serbia's interior ministry, proof of renunciation is required during the application. That would probably be a letter from the first country's embassy in Belgrade. There will be a process to certify and legalise documents between countries, either by apostille or another legalisation process.

[Comte De St. Germain]

(06-20-2015 02:24 PM)PainPositive Wrote:  

(06-19-2015 11:29 PM)hwuzhere Wrote:  

(06-18-2015 09:12 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

PainPositive,

Interesting. I just wonder who I could trust in certain parts of the world to do that. At least you have a relative.

Wonder if RVF guys just pooled to get a property to get access to residency if that would work. Would be sweet!

I've been actually thinking about investing in Serbia once I have a job, and if some time in the next 5-6 years RVF guys want to buy an Inn, apartment complex, or hotel together to gain citizenship that would be amazing. Count me in if anybody wants to do this. Of course well repped members who can be vouched for.

You guys may not have to pool your resources. I think the minimum amount is very low. I have to verify this with immigration still but I'm already looking at plots of land for $1000.

The benefits of having a Serbian passport includes freedom of travel to both Brazil and Russia.

I was thinking more along the lines of a business venture or player hotel/mansion where RVF members could stay free and can serve as a passive income stream.

[Tail Gunner]

(06-20-2015 05:01 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

(06-20-2015 03:54 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(06-20-2015 03:50 PM)PainPositive Wrote:  

And Spain only requires 150k... none of that has anything to do with Serbia's immigration law though. The information is hard to find online. I'll go back to immigration on Monday and see what I can find out.

Spain's programme is for residency, not citizenship. You are confusing two very different concepts.

I would be very interested to know if Serbian citizenship could be obtained without relinquishing one's existing citizenship. I think that will be the deal breaker for most of us.

Usually, unless I am mistaken, country X has no way of knowing for a fact whether you have renounced citizenship in country Y.

Some countries ask for proof of renunciation from your former home country. You can see the U.S. document here:

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/american-no-more/

If you do not produce a notorized apostilled document as proof, the new country will not issue you a passport (or they will revoke it, if already issued).

On the other hand, some countries do not care about this requirement, even if they do not allow dual citizenship. Extensive prudence and research is required if you wish to gain citizenship in country that does not offer dual citizenship.

[Kamaki4]

It's not permanent residency, but I recently obtained a 1 year visa for Thailand that I can extend to 17 months before I need to apply for another one. In a couple of weeks I'm leaving for Greece to apply for a Greek passport, and after careful thought I hope they leave the Eurozone (It will be better for Greece in the long run). Russia has already invited them to join as the sixth member of development bank of the BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa). If they do exit the Eurozone I am sure I will enjoy visa free travel to a host of countries that are different than the ones I can visit with my Canadian passport.

http://sputniknews.com/business/20150619...95850.html

[DaveR]

(06-22-2015 04:13 AM)Kamaki4 Wrote:  

It's not permanent residency, but I recently obtained a 1 year visa for Thailand that I can extend to 17 months before I need to apply for another one. In a couple of weeks I'm leaving for Greece to apply for a Greek passport, and after careful thought I hope they leave the Eurozone (It will be better for Greece in the long run). Russia has already invited them to join as the sixth member of development bank of the BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa). If they do exit the Eurozone I am sure I will enjoy visa free travel to a host of countries that are different than the ones I can visit with my Canadian passport.

http://sputniknews.com/business/20150619...95850.html

Eurozone is the monetary union - it doesn't refer to the European Union as a whole. Greece will need to leave the Schengen area if it is to make any changes to travel arrangements.

After saying that, I think they should leave Schengen as doing so would allow the Greeks to boost inbound tourism. Russians would not visit countries like Turkey and Egypt if they could visit Greece without visas.

[Comte De St. Germain]

(06-22-2015 04:13 AM)Kamaki4 Wrote:  

It's not permanent residency, but I recently obtained a 1 year visa for Thailand that I can extend to 17 months before I need to apply for another one. In a couple of weeks I'm leaving for Greece to apply for a Greek passport, and after careful thought I hope they leave the Eurozone (It will be better for Greece in the long run). Russia has already invited them to join as the sixth member of development bank of the BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa). If they do exit the Eurozone I am sure I will enjoy visa free travel to a host of countries that are different than the ones I can visit with my Canadian passport.

http://sputniknews.com/business/20150619...95850.html

Your username if only you knew.