[TheMan]

Any honest, idiot, can tell that Roosh does what he does because he loves it... all of it, so much so that he gave up his full time job as a pharmaceutical chemist—not chump-change assholes—to dedicate himself to, living the life and keeping his experience fresh, so he could write the content, that fills the books, and covers the screens, because he obviously feels so passionately about learning this, and sharing this... of course he should be paid for it you asshats!!!

What? You think this kind of quality product/ service should be free or that it is somehow tainted or poor men are being taken advantage of because money is exchanged for goods/ services?!

Maybe if you didn't spend all of your days clamoring for quick bursts of Internet approval from bronies and neck beards , you might have a more accurate and realistic set of expectations in regards to how a real economy works.

First off loose that BS victim mentality: clearly you are spending waaay too much time on reddit and that shit is seeping into your brain.

Next: Who's to say that your advice, message and narrative hasn't been tainted by the reddit feminist matriarchy? For all we know Ellen Pau regularly wires fake internet points into your offshore reddit accounts?

Finally: Roosh is taking advantage of exactly 0 people by selling his books and appearances (@ only $10 & $50 respectively which given the received value, is a steal by the way...). Only a modern feminist would take advantage of a system/ scenario or expect a man to give up something of great value at a discount if not free to them and still have the gall to cry out injustice...

You all claim to be red pill, right?
So then be red pill: detach from your keyboard and roll away from your custom gaming desk, and go engage in that quintessentially red pill tradition and cornerstone of the whole movement/ mindset, of quiet, honest introspection. I want you to think long and hard, about exactly why you are bothered by roosh's financial "gains".

Then comeback and we, your brothers will gladly have a chat with you...
about aaaaanything else as you will undoubtedly understand exactly how fucking lame your current gripe is.

</rant>

[philosophical_recovery]

Watching Roosh's video just gave me a flashback of discovering Roissy, Roosh, and then far later Rollo, in that order. Then, buying Bang, and later a few of his other books. It's been 4 or 5 years since I've been following all of these men regularly.

I'm trying to imagine what it would be like without it. What lead me here was a failure with a woman, as during my early to mid 20s I was headed in the totally wrong direction, suffering from depression, and not genuinely improving myself.

That's deep. I wonder if I would have been suicidal, to be honest, as I thought my situation with women was horrible, would never be good again, and I didn't understand why. It had been good, but I had followed what I was supposed to be doing, felt guilty about the successes I did have, and beat myself up emotionally about it.

The thing that draws me to Roosh, and what Rollo nor Roissy has, is his honesty and frankness. Especially if you read A Dead Bat in Paraguay, you'll see how deliberately he writes about his successes, his failures, his feelings of oneitis for the girl, and how it's just not the same when he goes back to her. Since then, his speaking has improved drastically, as has his writing, and this community itself is fantastic in that it is so heavily guarded by the requirements to enter as well as strict governance.

All I can say after reliving the discovery that lead me here is: Thank you, Roosh.

[Teedub]

Roosh mentions that there shall be no homosexuals within the neomasculinity movememt...what about homosexuals who are on our side? Like Jack Donovan for example, or Milo in fact - as queeny as he is sometimes. Surely there's a place for them, at least as 'allies'?

[aphelion]

(05-22-2015 11:26 PM)kerouac Wrote:  

Women will do almost anything for an Alpha Male

Quote:

This was about 8 years ago. One of the football players I went to high school with slept with one of the teachers (28F). She was hot, but obviously past her prime and rapidly approaching the wall (she locked down her BB [39M] in marriage less than a year prior). The rumor spread like a wildfire because the AF couldn't keep his mouth shut about it, and eventually some SJW ratted them out. The police got involved because he was 17 and like 364 days old when it first happened.
She was not prosecuted because the AF's father refused to press charges and the "child" refused to testify against her in a court of law, obviously because what they did was consensual. Hubby didn't divorce her, as far as I'm aware.
Her actions were not without consquences. I went to one of the best public high schools in the country; the average teacher makes about $100k/year including benefits. She was fired after less than 4 years with the school district and surrendered her teaching certificate to the state.
So let's summarize.
She was willing to sacrifice 10 years of hard work (schooling from 18-24 to get her teaching certificate, and 4 years of work experience as a teacher at one of the best public schools in the country), a career easily making six figures, an extremely early retirement/pension, her reputation via media exposure, risk losing her BB marriage, risk becoming pregnant with the alpha male's child, risk assault and battery from a jealous husband, risk becoming a registered sex offender against minors, and risk going to jail for a long time.
All because she wanted to have access to alpha male dick once.
THAT is an example of some of the things that women will do for alpha males. But only for males that are alpha enough; beta males greatly disgust them.

Read this and try not to cringe.

Quote:

To be fair, powerful men like CEOs and politicians risk everything for a woman all the time.
Sex happens to be one of the three powerful survival forces (after self-defence and hunger) and very few are capable of ignoring it.

All I see is...

Which one is neckbeardy? They're both right.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

When looking at Rollo's Twitter feed I just think:



This beef is utterly unnecessary.

I agree that Reddit will stamp out the useful topics of the Red Pill sooner or later. Seeing from the viewpoint of the social planners I would say that Rollo's and Roosh's messages to men is the most problematic. Both help men to get laid, become more masculine, understand women better and either to get laid or forge stronger relationships with their wives or girlfriends.

MGTOWs - they are great - stop procreating - the elite could not be more happy with that movement.
MRAs - great - been in existence since 100 years - can go on for the next 100 and no influence.
The Red Pill - while the term is still valid it actually encompasses everyone from PUAHATE Game deniers to traditionals - especially in large forums that message will be ever more diluted

So all in all - the differences between Rollo and Roosh are the venues they use and some variations in personal opinions.

No reason to pull out the trident



On the other hand - we men are known to go into fights and then 15 minutes later go for a beer together - so go for it.

[TheMan]

Re rollo:

What if he is just attacking roosh so that he increases his own profile
Lol, it is straight out of 48laws - if this is the case then roosh should just ignore the little guy as roosh, having the bigger rep has more to lose.

[Buddydowrongright]

A general rule of thumb to go by is that Reddit is for fucking faggots (and masculinized feminists), and even the parts that are trying to teach Redditors not to be fucking faggots, will still be brimming with them. The "BUT, ACTUALLY..." shit still stinks up any decent post you will read in the Red Pill subreddit and of course Roosh is not going to be popular for pointing this out.

Because the platform itself is toxic. No matter how many jacked up, head-on-straight, pussy slaying gymbros there are in that subreddit giving good advice, opinions, and anecdotes, there will be an equal number of faggots poisoning the well with their faggotry, either intentionally or unintentionally, because that's what reddit is: a place for fucking faggots to go and be faggots, to one-up each other until they've wasted enough time to feel content. Once I realized this, I stopped going to reddit (I too have been guilty, which is the only reason I'm writing this post). I highly recommend you all do the same.

[RedPillUK]

I've never fully trusted anyone with a high pitched, whiny, stuttering nerd voice like Rollo.

On Christian McQueens show, he admitted he got married at 28, never had any awakening but just studies and writes about this stuff.
I think this has outed him as a someone who just writes intellectual articles about sexual relations rather than someone who actually practises what he preaches, as he's behaving like an irrational female.

And what the fuck is he talking about Roosh is looking for a relationship? dudes been married for over 18 years.

[aphelion]

(05-23-2015 05:54 AM)RedPillUK Wrote:  

I've never fully trusted anyone with a high pitched, whiny, stuttering nerd voice like Rollo.

On Christian McQueens show, he admitted he got married at 28, never had any awakening but just studies and writes about this stuff.
I think this has outed him as a someone who just writes intellectual articles about sexual relations rather than someone who actually practises what he preaches, as he's behaving like an irrational female.

And what the fuck is he talking about Roosh is looking for a relationship? dudes been married for over 18 years.

MikeCF has a high, nasal voice. Don't trust him?

If Rollo got married at 28 and has managed to keep it together all this time, then he's someone who maybe has something useful and interesting to say about sexual relations from his perspective. Rollo doesn't write for players and pickup artists really, so obviously there's going to be some disconnect between the things he writes about and what gets talked about here. Of course Roosh and Rollo won't see eye to eye on everything.

I was as disappointed as anyone else when Rollo came out mildly against Roosh's work, but I attribute that to the differences in Roosh and Rollo's takes on masculinity (which really aren't that far apart when you adjust for the differences in their lifestyle). But what I think it really comes down to is Rollo's estimation of Roosh's role in the 'sphere/whatever.

If Rollo had Roosh pegged as a PUA a long time ago, and his opinion of Roosh hasn't closely tracked the evolution of Roosh's psychology, then of course Rollo's going to look at Roosh as being an opportunistic fox in the henhouse. I don't see Roosh's shift in focus from writing Bang guides to writing about masculinity because I've followed Roosh's writing closely enough over the years in order to see that it wasn't a tectonic shift for him and that he's been leaning this way for years. But if Rollo hasn't done so, then he might see Roosh as a carpetbagger. 'Where is Roosh coming from writing about masculinity? I've been on that topic for years.'

So, distrust of the new guy is probably what's going on here. Everyone likes everyone else so long as they stay in their lane, and all of this came from the perception that Roosh wasn't staying in his lane. Hence, the blowback.

To add to that, money came into the mix and now everyone there thinks Uncle Roosh is turning into Uncle Scrooge. But Roosh has been meeting dudes for free for years. As for me, Roosh kinda accidentally became one of the most influential human beings I've ever had the opportunity to meet, and probably ended up giving me the biggest net increase in quality of life out of anyone I've ever met. But he wouldn't even let me buy him a burger in Poland. Roosh doesn't exactly strike me as a money grubber or an opportunist--if anything, quite the opposite.

[The Beast1]

They're all just jelly that Roosh put a better name on the movement while trying to move everyone under the same umbrella without gasp inquiring from them.

Don't let it get to you Roosh. Five bucks in the next few years Ellen deletes the Red Pill reddit as a hate group.

[Solus]

Strange seeing Rollo coming out against Roosh like this. What about those book sales?

Almost every prominent manosphere writer has monetized in some way and TRP darling Illimitable Man has a patreon for crying out loud.

Also, who's forcing anyone to attend one of these lectures? Or associate with neomasculinity at all?

This commotion just seems like a colossal waste of time that would be better spent on other things.

[dtpilgrim]

I'm curious to hear this new information on downgrading the importance of evolutionary theory that keeps being alluded to.

Also, living in The Netherlands, where there is a lot of gay acceptance, the whole anti-gay thing does not yet appeal to me. My cultural upbringing has taught me to just let people be what they are and not busy body (tolerance culture). My MBTI inclination is very passive open minded as well.

But I respect Roosh on too many levels that I'm curious to hear about the arguments against homosexuality. So far in my life I've been in the "I don't care let it be" camp. But if Mencius Moldbug can convince me to see the flaws of democracy and the benefits of monarchy... I hope Roosh can supply a similar powerful line of reasoning to denounce homosexuality.

[Roosh]

The MGTOWs are swarming the comments of the video and went on a downvoting brigade:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK2UMK9ohpo

"We invented the red pill" is a common sentiment. And you can have it.

[Phoenix]

Lol, I wonder if these same people complain about their dentists doing work on their toothache because "they're only doing it to make money". Reeks of douchebaggery to me. Apparently anyone who runs an independent business isn't red pill; I guess we'll have to go back to the cubicle to become red pill again? Wtf.

I haven't seen any instance of Roosh using trickery or deceit to make money, so the more he makes the better for him and the better for his customers.

[CleanSlate]

Until this infighting and friendly fire stops, I'm not sure how we are going to achieve a voice as powerful as the feminism movement. Not to blow smoke up anyone's ass - what Roosh has done for the last 10 years has the potential to completely change the entire world. But I only see that happening if the infighting, sniping, side-picking, jostling for personal gain cease, and we all join into one chorus.

This is akin to Democrat's infighting in contrast with the GOP's single minded messaging tactics. I hate to draw such a parallel with our broken two party system, as both parties stink. But the point I am trying to make is if we are ever going to beat feminism and somewhat reverse the cultural decline in the Western world, we are going to have to really band together, join forces, and become one, but truly powerful, voice.

Neomasculinity is a good word to stand behind, and I'm disappointed Rollo has a beef with this as I find a lot of value in what he writes, and isn't that much different from Roosh idealogically.

EDIT: I suppose I'm preaching to the choir here... I hope Rollo reads this. I'd email him this, but he never has responded to my emails so I'm not sure if he reads his email.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I've mentioned many times how I hate watching videos and prefer reading, but I took the time to watch the video Roosh linked in the post above. Well done, Roosh! Very calmly and succinctly explained.

[Private Man]

The schism will heal itself. The nomenclature is too established. Neomasculinity will simply become another glossary term that falls under Red Pill and Manosphere concepts.

[Cobra]

Has anyone even met Rollo or has he made himself public?

[Roosh]

(05-23-2015 08:46 AM)Private Man Wrote:  

The schism will heal itself. The nomenclature is too established. Neomasculinity will simply become another glossary term that falls under Red Pill and Manosphere concepts.

As a close friend of Rollo, I know the events of the past two days pains you greatly. I hope you find strength during these times.

[Ziltoid]

(05-23-2015 07:37 AM)dtpilgrim Wrote:  

I'm curious to hear this new information on downgrading the importance of evolutionary theory that keeps being alluded to.

I'm curious about this, too.

You've alluded to it a lot on twitter for the past couple months, but haven't really clarified your position, Roosh. Do you have a blog post or ROK article planned for the near future about this?

Do you deny the theory of evolution entirely, or do you just feel evolutionary psychology is being applied in ways that are too abstract and flimsy?

[Roosh]

Quote:

You've alluded to it a lot on twitter for the past couple months, but haven't really clarified your position, Roosh. Do you have a blog post or ROK article planned for the near future about this?

Yes in the near future, about a month. It builds off of this book: http://www.amazon.com/Darwinian-Fairytal...594032009/

[Libertas]

(05-23-2015 08:40 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

Until this infighting and friendly fire stops, I'm not sure how we are going to achieve a voice as powerful as the feminism movement. Not to blow smoke up anyone's ass - what Roosh has done for the last 10 years has the potential to completely change the entire world. But I only see that happening if the infighting, sniping, side-picking, jostling for personal gain cease, and we all join into one chorus.

This is akin to Democrat's infighting in contrast with the GOP's single minded messaging tactics. I hate to draw such a parallel with our broken two party system, as both parties stink. But the point I am trying to make is if we are ever going to beat feminism and somewhat reverse the cultural decline in the Western world, we are going to have to really band together, join forces, and become one, but truly powerful, voice.

Neomasculinity is a good word to stand behind, and I'm disappointed Rollo has a beef with this as I find a lot of value in what he writes, and isn't that much different from Roosh idealogically.

I'm not so sure I see it this way.

I have long mentioned on this forum that the "social justice" hegemon we see is basically just a coalition. Although all the partners in this coalition subscribe to a Year Zero mentality in one form or the other, beyond their common hatred of "cis" hetero white men, they have little in common. This is what makes them unstable, and we will continue to see those instabilities propagate as time moves forward. As Roosh said on his latest stream - these people eat their own when they have no common outrage. He also mentioned that #ThisCantGoOn and he's right, because this coalition, as all coalitions, are unstable.

As a side note I see a fracturing between feminists and trannies first. There are already many underlying tensions there, and as the left pushes for tranny acceptance further, I see those tensions becoming a yawning gap. This will also force gays to make a choice between feminists and trannies, and even the "LGBT" might break up if that's the case, though I suspect they will in the end choose trannies.

What I'm getting at here is again that these coalitions are inherently unstable. While we of course want to see our power grow, for long term viability I'm not sure how desirable a coalition is. Already in GamerGate, long predicted by guys like Seboist and AB, there's some tensions between gaters and the so-called "Ayyteam," who to quote Seboist, are the "weak link in the chain, the liberals." These are the people that don't understand the fanatical nature of the "social justice" crowd they are up against. The solid people in GamerGate do, but Ayyteam moderates are causing tension.

In the long run I don't see MGTOW, who I have long considered to be weak-willed, offering us much. Certainly this is the case for any poster on reddit.

Instead I think we should follow the 48 laws, concentrate our forces and form a powerful republic, one with an agora, a strong citizen military, an assembly, etc., if you'll forgive me for going on at length with the analogy.

Our goal should be to be a strong Roman Republic type entity, not a league of city-states like Greece. I think this is inherent in us due to our character, and it will in the end prove conducive because this is a strong, muscular philosophy that attracts the type of people we want anyway, not MGTOWs who spend 90% of their time complaining about women.

Some type of accord with some of the tenets of Men's Rights might be plausible and desirable in the long run - if they can drop their passive-aggressive victimhood mentality, but not with these people who in my mind, are at best short term allies, as we're somewhat starting to see.

[badscientist]

(05-23-2015 08:49 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

As a close friend of Rollo, I know the events of the past two days pains you greatly. I hope you find strength during these times.

As a follower of Rollo it pains me too. While I enjoy reading your work and heartiste, I realised I fall into the category you described as Rollo's target audience. His knowledge and inspiration, whether or not it came from heartiste, guided my change in perspectives.

However taking a step back to re-evaluate objectively made me realise that neomasculinity is really the way forward. Irrespective of your commercial agenda or not giving due credit to people like Pook, it's a necessary reboot to politicise this philosophy and take it out into the mainstream.

I've always maintained, even before today, that reddit is not a credible source of information. The upvoting nature means that posts are sensationalist, and the vibe on theredpill subsection feels like a bunch of angry blue pill betas who've just unplugged. Like Wikipedia it's a good starting place for new ideas, but you wouldn't base your homework assignment on it.

Rollo has a lot to offer and I hope he clarifies his position. I also hope you can put personal differences aside and invite him to work with you if that's an option he considers.

[Private Man]

(05-23-2015 08:49 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

(05-23-2015 08:46 AM)Private Man Wrote:  

The schism will heal itself. The nomenclature is too established. Neomasculinity will simply become another glossary term that falls under Red Pill and Manosphere concepts.

As a close friend of Rollo, I know the events of the past two days pains you greatly. I hope you find strength during these times.

Yeah, it does. Such conflicts do no good. I'm reminded of when Elam took a cheap shot at Heartiste. I'm also reminded of when the EP blew up badly. I'm still blocked on Twitter from a few accounts because of the EP shit from over two years ago. Years. Is that healthy?

You guys do what you must. I'll only make a quiet effort to re-build bridges. My demographic of readers is well beyond the age of the comment cacophony that now infests the 'Sphere and Red Pill websites.

We, as men, have so much potential. Sadly, we are devolving into a papal-like 15th century schism. I won't engage in that. I can't. There are too many post-divorce men who are flopping around while trying to deal with attraction and dating.

Carry on.

[Basil Ransom]

"Some type of accord with some of the tenets of Men's Rights might be plausible and desirable in the long run - if they can drop their passive-aggressive victimhood mentality, "

Not possible. Men's Rights is fundamentally an anti-masculine outfit that seeks to erase - not uphold - traditional sex roles. They fancy themselves the true feminists, the true defenders of sexual equality, minus the female supremacism of modern feminism - and they may be right. But that's just another way of saying they are promoting androgyny. They see the call to cultivate masculinity as oppressive and restrictive, just as feminists do with female beauty. If you don't see how men's rights is not inherently toxic, you just aren't trying hard enough.