[Jagnum]

Over the last eight months in the U.S., since September 2014, seventy-seven women have given me their phone number. So roughly ten numbers a month. Not bad, right?

Mostly day game, remainder is night game. All of these women I met in person. For someone who began approaching women only about a year ago, this would seem like a tremendous accomplishment.

How many bangs from these seventy-seven women? Just one. A one-night stand. (I couldn't get her out on a date afterwards.)

How many second dates out of these seventy-seven women? None. Not a single second date.

How many first dates out of these seventy-seven women? I don’t remember. Not that many, especially recently. By and large, I’m losing the woman in the approach despite often getting a number. And I don’t know why.

Look, I’m not in the game to get phone numbers. I’m in the game for the same reason most of you are in the game: to get laid, to be in a relationship and to become a better man.

I don’t know what else to do at this point, so I’ve begun to record some of my approaches to try to figure out if I’m doing something terribly wrong.

If you listen to this entire conversation, you’ll notice I follow Day Bang model pretty darn closely. Ramble, drop bait, be patient and wait for that personal question, run GALNUC, but above all, keep it conversational and fun.

In the recording, there are obvious things I already notice: stop being so giggly, stop saying “yeah” when she’s speaking. Small things I will try to alter.

However, something larger is wrong. I don’t know what it is.

Listen, enjoy and I’d be grateful for feedback. From approach to number close is thirteen minutes.

----

Audio summary:

We ramble about laptops for four and a half minutes.

@3:20 “I thought I would get a Mac…but the hipster in me…”

No bite on my big bait, the cool project, I’m working on, and I’m running out of steam, so I drop a line about coffee shops.

@4:17 “When you get to my advanced age, you become quite choosy about the coffee shops you work at. This is a good one.”

She bites a little by beginning to talk about another coffee shop she likes.

@6:13 She finally asks a personal question “Where are you from?”

We chat about New York City for a bit. She says she just visited there. We talk about a few things, mostly art museums.

@9:45 She likes a park that I like in Seattle, so I say “High five”. She laughs.

@12:33 I go for the number after we both talk about where we like to hang out. “You seem cool maybe you’d like to hang out some time.” She gives an upbeat, “Yeah, sure!”

@12:55 “Will you be jumping with excitement when I text you?”

[Jagnum]

The RooshVForum wouldn't let me directly upload the 12 mb audio file.

I converted the audio into a video file and uploaded it to Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R67eeiyZ0w4

[kash_MD]

Processing power and hard drive size, 4 minutes in and you are still talking about laptops? had to stop bro. good luck with your game. you need the experts

[MongolianAbroad]

Congratulations on that many approaches, man.

Also, nice work recording that and having the confidence to put it up here for critique.

So, here's my constructive criticism, because you asked for it.

Your tone/speech patterns could use a shot of testosterone.

Look up some movies with leading actors that are looked at as manly, and practice adopting their tone and speech patterns.

Just like a woman's voice/speech pattern can seduce a man, a man's voice/speech pattern can do the same to a woman, and your tone in that conversation was far from the tone/speech pattern required to achieve that effect.

Again, I'm saying this in a completely positive way, I'm not ribbing you, I think it's fantastic that you're putting in effort and working on your game. My suggestion would be to work on your tone/speech pattern, and emulating some screen icons would be an easy way to get started.

Good luck, man, and again, congratulations on putting in all that work so far!

[RedPillUK]

I agree with Spaniard88, although I hear a lot of Americans talking like that in a way that sounds really camp and lame to me, especially the old school PUA's, "who lies more" etc, so I'm not sure if that's a cultural thing.

[memcpy]

Quote:

How many second dates out of these seventy-seven women? None. Not a single second date.

So you got a first date? Your goal is not to get a second date but to bang her on the first.

If you live next to where you approach you should be shooting for same day lays or a date at later time in week.

Your goal is not to get a second date.

Quote:

How many first dates out of these seventy-seven women? I don’t remember. Not that many, especially recently.

Think how many, because this could be anywhere from 2-30 for all we know.

Quote:

Over the last eight months in the U.S., since September 2014, seventy-seven women have given me their phone number. So roughly ten numbers a month. Not bad, right?

Not bad. But let's do the math. Out of 10 numbers 7 will flake, 3 will answer text, and 1 will meet up with you.

The better you get, the less work you have to do.

[Jagnum]

thanks for taking a listen. your critique was level-handed and fair. someone else commented on my voice too, so its going to be something i'll work on. at the very least, i'll be conscious of it in future approaches.

(05-09-2015 02:04 AM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  

Congratulations on that many approaches, man.

Also, nice work recording that and having the confidence to put it up here for critique.

So, here's my constructive criticism, because you asked for it.

Your tone/speech patterns could use a shot of testosterone.

Look up some movies with leading actors that are looked at as manly, and practice adopting their tone and speech patterns.

Just like a woman's voice/speech pattern can seduce a man, a man's voice/speech pattern can do the same to a woman, and your tone in that conversation was far from the tone/speech pattern required to achieve that effect.

Again, I'm saying this in a completely positive way, I'm not ribbing you, I think it's fantastic that you're putting in effort and working on your game. My suggestion would be to work on your tone/speech pattern, and emulating some screen icons would be an easy way to get started.

Good luck, man, and again, congratulations on putting in all that work so far!

[Wahawahwah]

Aight I skipped parts of the audio, but a few things

1- You're talking too much, she's responding politely but most of her responses are short.

2- You're giving her too many compliments -- "You go to brooklyn at all?" "NO, that was really disappointing" "You seem like a cool girl....thats where the cool people are at".... ("you seem like a cool girl" recurs a couple of times later on too)

3- Your intonation is pretty effeminate and youre laughing self consciously and often (at a couple of unfunny comments also).

4- @12:55 “Will you be jumping with excitement when I text you?” No, just no. Throughout the conversation you're putting her up and pulling yourself down. That particular question came off as validation seeking behavior

5- Like kash noted, you're talking way too much about dry subjects. You're approaching this a little too logically and (for lack of a better word, nicely). Women are creatures of emotion. Tie in a few emotional hooks through the conversation. Keep a few DHVing stories handy. Pay attention to body language (because it was audio only, we cant really give you specific pointers to work upon, but one gets the impression that you didnt touch her and you guys were just standing awkwardly around.)

6- Touching in a non "creepy" way is pretty important and may decrease your flake rate/number ratio. There are enough posts on the forum that deal with this so you may want to work on that.

7-- The elderly opener is an OPENER, you still have to segue into getting the girl to be interested in you. I'd say that transition is where your problem lies, and you're being friendzoned pretty often if this is how most of your first conversations go - ergo, girls are less willing to go on "dates" with you.

Finally, one piece of advice ----

You've cleared the approach barrier somewhat, but in your mind it appears that you're still a risk averse enough that it shows in the interaction. For your next twenty approaches, dont go after phone numbers or dates. Make it a goal to say the randomest shit to girls. Interrupt them when theyre speaking. Abruptly change the subject in the middle of the conversation. Consciously make an effort to touch her within the first ten (preferably 5) minutes of your interaction -- definitely read up on the body language posts here though, before someone pulls out the pepper spray on you. Smile occasionally, dont laugh. In the next twenty approaches, push yourself to be a little less self conscious -- put on the ugliest clothes you have and approach. Rinse and repeat the earlier things. Do not make it a goal to get her number or go on a date for these 40 approaches. If you did the above, consider it to be a successful approach.

It is always better to be more bold than less so.

[BlurredSevens]

Just listened to the whole thing.

This is a solid implementation of how Roosh teaches game in Day Bang. You've obviously done all your homework and I am impressed how Cool, Calm, and Collected you are throughout the whole thing.

Normally I cringe in awkwardness when listening to or watching Day Game videos from both beginners and experts alike, but that didn't happen with your recording.

You seemed very natural and genuine throughout the whole thing.

It never once felt like you were working from a script, and it never once felt like you were forcing the conversation.

While I wasn't blown away by the interestingness of the conversation, I have personally learned that *what* you talk about has very little to do with whether or not a girl bangs you.

Some guys might nitpick specifics in your recording, but in reality, you didn't fuck up or say anything stupid, or stumble on your words, or anything else majorly bad, so overall I'd say this was a well done Day Game approach.

----

A couple questions:

Can you tell us what's happening once you get these girls numbers? What does the texting conversation look like?

What happened to the girls you number closed, but didn't get a date with? Did they ignore you, flake on you, reject the date, etc.?

What happens on the dates you go on? Are you getting make outs? Are you getting physical with them at all?

I am thinking your problems could lie here as much as they do in your number closes.

-----

A couple thoughts:

There was zero sexual energy between you and her. You made her feel comfortable and chill, but you didn't arouse her. She was comfortable talking to you...as a potential friend, but not as a potential lover.

I would say your conversational/approach skills are totally on-point for someone at your level, and you've built yourself a great foundation to work from. So that's the good news.

However, you need to work on your flirting skills. Big time.

Tease her, make her blush, be bold and be sexual and see how she reacts. You want her to feel something around you more than just comfort.

There is a lot of information out there about how to flirt and be sexual. Look it up and figure out what applies to you, then go try it in the field.

----

Closing thoughts:

I looked at some of your other posts. I can tell you are working hard, and I feel like you've got what it takes to be successful. But you have really got to step up the experimentation with flirting and sexuality with these girls. It will really change everything for you in a positive way.

Keep us updated and keep working hard. It'll come eventually. It always does!

[Tuthmosis]

Relevant:

[Tuthmosis]

Your biggest problem is content. You sound boring--and this is from someone who recognizes that day game should sound boring to the untrained listener. I was screaming at the computer as the video played.

Like others have mentioned, you dwell on computers almost to a comic extreme. You could have pivoted to a girl-friendly topic in the first 90 seconds.

"You keep everything in the cloud? I'd be worried about doing that after what happened to all those celebrities a couple of months ago."

At that point, your conversation should spread into multiple interesting and fun topics. If you're advanced, you can return to computers as a way to show your complete mastery of human conversation, but that may take time.

And, for god's sake, fix that lispy voice. Does everyone have to talk like this now?

[amity]

Impressive rambling bro.
Actually I think a lot of chicks like your kind of voice these days, this how a lot of the guys in their 20s and 30s speak where I work.
Sure they're not the most masculine of dudes, but from what i can see, the women don't care and are happy to hang out with them.
Whether they want to bang them though, is another story.
Your voice and chatting style is ideal for building comfort, however as the other commenters have said, you could inject some more flirtiness into your conversations.
Also, the rhetorical upturn in tone you use at the end of some sentences, lose it, it's very like how girls (especially younger girls) speak and it will subconsciously have her making feminine rather than masculine associations when she thinks of you.
But overall though, good work man, keep at it.

[Kamikaze]

You have massive balls to put yourself out here and open yourself up to criticism. I gave you a rep point just for that. I can also imagine recording yourself must have been stressful and maybe messed you up more than you usually do.

I agree with Sharkie and Tuth above. Check out this thread.

Specifically, I posted videos of Kassem G later on there, I'll post them here. In this first video, you see a lot of mistakes similar to what you're making, when he was first starting out.

I Wrote:

You could tell a difference from the previous vids to this one. Although this early video certainly isn't bad, in the later vids, he's more deadpan, doesn't get easily rattled, tries less hard, keeps his voice low, and doesn't laugh at his own jokes, or rarely other girls'. Laughing unnecessarily and changing pitch due to nervousness are common mistakes. A calm demeanor is half the battle. You can tell it has worked for Kassem; as years went on, more girls warmed up to him thanks to his increasing comfort level.

He got more polished up, here's an example.

Kassem may not be your style, but I just heard a few of the same mistakes, namely: trying a little too hard, pitch, delivery, laughing at unfunny things out of nervousness. Notice Kassem's inflection doesn't change much, and isn't overly reactive to what the girls do. "That's a snout." Deadpan. You would have probably laughed at the "I'm the office bitch" comment, and I'm guilty of that too. Notice how Kassem shrugs it off and says "You said it, not me." On to the next topic.

But the biggest thing you'll need to work on, as Tuth said, is content. That only comes with seeing the world through a unique lens... and not giving a fuck. Go through your own conversations later, and think of where you could have said something more interesting like Tuth did above. Eventually you will see reoccuring patterns where you can reuse jokes with different girls. There's a reason a lot of comedians have made variations of the same joke over and over.

Keep up, or ramp up, those approach numbers, and keep thinking of how to improve. Try your best to relax and enjoy it.

[The_CEO]

First, I commend you simply approaching.

I would say to the commenters who are hammering the guy for the computer "ramble"... Yes, good idea to change it up with more exciting convo
But bear in mind that this computer ramble adheres to "Day Bang" where on more than one occasion, the book emphasizes an excessively elderly opener and ramble (practically becoming a pen salesman, for instance).
Maybe it was overkill but again the only way to know (and next time, course-correct) is to try and in this case, the guy is putting his "ramble" up for public scrutiny and feedback, so again, congrats on the effort.
Next time you can incorporate the tips you're getting and use a Vin Diesel voice and express concern that the cloud is not a good place for your cache of selfie dick-pics that are in high demand.

[speakeasy]

I listened to the whole thing right now. Well first off, the fact that you had the courage to approach her puts you half way there already. So props for that.

My critiques would be as follows:

1) As others said, you stayed too long on the computer topic. You drew it way out. Surprisingly the girl was still talking to you about it and didn't seem annoyed. Maybe she's just really polite.

2) You asked too many closed-end questions. "Did you go to the Met?" Instead ask what's the most fun thing she did in NYC. If she really had fun then she'll get more engaged in the conversation and start talking more and you can then get some insights into what she thinks is exciting. If she didn't, you could tease her for being boring.

3) Too much nervous, tension-breaking laughing. Try slowing down your cadence a bit too.

4) Sometimes it seems like you were really struggling for a new thread of conversation or looking for a way to continue a thread to the point where I can tell you were forcing it just to stave off an uncomfortable silence. Girls can really pick up on that too. That can happen to anyone of course, you're just not going to have slam-dunk chemistry with every girl you talk to. So I don't know if this conversation was representative of all your day game interactions.

5) As others noted, more masculinity in your voice is needed. Your voice reminds of any of millions of these social media guys I've seen on youtube, like this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t9r-WJzICY I don't know why so many American guys talk like this now.

As for the girl, she seems like she was going along with your conversation and was being pleasant enough to ask you some questions here and there as well which makes me think she was at least engaged. Though I'd be surprised if she responds if you ask her to meet up with you. I just didn't hear any real spark between you too. And if you two did end up on a date, sitting through 2 hours of conversation like that would be painful. That's not to put you down, we've all been on dates like that were we just couldn't get out of the polite, topical conversation mode. C'est la vie.

I wasn't surprised she was from LA, she sounds just like your generic, cookie-cutter Socal white girl.

By the way, what was your setup for recording your infield approaches?

[robreke]

delete

[roc_student]

Smart of you to record and post your approach for feedback. I might do the same soon.

1. I'd be surprised if that number leads to a date. From the audio, it sounds like there was no attraction built. The best outcome I could see is you guys informing each other about parties, and then potentially hooking up with her or one of her friends at a party.

2. It was the same conversation she would have with an old man or something. Of course that's the whole point of elderly ramble, but I would recommend transitioning to asking her more personal questions such as where she is from, what's her major, get her talking about her hopes and dreams, etc, plus some flirting. Rather than only talking about inanimate objects like museums and tables, etc.

3. Try to find some passion you guys have in common, to build more of a connection. I know this can be difficult if she is boring, but try to find or make up something.

[Hairz]

This sounded like friends talking, no randomness or angular approach. Your voice sounded boring too although you sounded composed. Oh and don't laugh especially at your own jokes. If you say something funny just grin or whatever when she laughs.

Props for approaching women. Like the other guy said try saying random shit to the next 40 chicks you meet on day game.

Also try to get physical with her. If she's into gymming then check out her biceps (grab arm and order her to tense it) and then you can slightly neg her on it or make fun of her being "one of those girls on the funny eliptical machine". Stuff like that gets them moist and makes you stand out.

[Donkey_Riding]

Roosh's Day Bang method is a double-edged sword. It's superb at getting a conversation going with girls and making them feel comfortable (especially with a captive audience, like on public transit), but it often works so well that even girls who aren't really interested in you sexually will still talk to you and even give you their number--but the number is worthless.

Once you rack up more approaches you should be able to calibrate and sense whether the girl is actually into you or is just being polite and having a friendly conversation. When you transition into Galnuc, you should sub-communicate that you've reached a hook point with the girl--you've been chatting, and all of a sudden she seems cool enough to you that you're into her. At this point you should find out whether she's actually into you or not.

Knowing your number to date conversion rate would be helpful. Day game numbers tend to be super flakey (even if the conversation went really well), so just because you didn't get many dates doesn't necessarily mean you fucked up.

How many approaches do you usually do? I would suggest 10/week minimum, but 20-30 is better.

Can't really advise you on your date performance without more info. E.g., where and when do you usually meet them, what do you talk about, &c? Do you do online game or tinder? This can be a low-investment way to get more dates and practice your dating skills.

My hunch regarding the dates would be that you need to chill out/relax more. Don't try as hard to impress or entertain her--remember that she should be talking more than you.

[262]

^^^
The flakiness of Day Bang numbers is why I transitioned to London-style day game for anything except when you and the girl are stuck with each other for an extended period of time, such as riding the same public transit. Unless you don't have the volume of girls to approach, there's usually no reason to waste time with a girl who turns out not to be interested in you.

It does take more balls though, which makes Day Bang an easier start than London-style.

Of course, even if you went Mode One direct, opening with "I wanna fuck you", some of the girls that hook (quite a bit fewer) will still lead to nothing but wasted time.

[Zep]

Delete.