Posts: 1,014
Threads: 0
Joined: Nov 2011
Reputation:
5
Virgin Galactic’s SpaceShipTwo Suffers Deadly Crash
11-01-2014, 08:25 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/01/scienc...d=61344572
Sad news... Is this the end of Space tourism, before it even started? Celebrities like DiCaprio and others had alredy booked a ticket.
Personnally I believe in trial-and-error as the best way to move forward: it is pure red pill, what in the end is the best thing for humankind.
Any thoughts on this?
"Fart, and if you must, fart often. But always fart without apology. Fart for freedom, fart for liberty, and fart proudly" (Ben Franklin)
Posts: 711
Threads: 0
Joined: Jul 2014
Reputation:
11
Virgin Galactic’s SpaceShipTwo Suffers Deadly Crash
11-01-2014, 09:55 AM
Plenty of experimental aircraft have crashed in various stages of their development. Its the progression of techonology and the cost of living on the bleeding edge. Its a tragedy for certain, but the crew - like all aircrew - surely loved what they were doing and likely had few regrets. This should 'cripple' private commercial space travel the same way deHavilland Comet breakups 'crippled' commercial jet travel - lessons will be learned and progress will continue.
I will say one positive - if any - that results from this media coverage is at least people are talking about manned aeronautics and spaceflight. I guarantee outside of the aviation community, no one knows what Scaled Composites is/does, but everyone know what some vacuous Kardashian is on her menstrual cycle this week.
Posts: 1,417
Threads: 0
Joined: Jul 2014
Reputation:
8
Virgin Galactic’s SpaceShipTwo Suffers Deadly Crash
11-01-2014, 10:20 AM
Quote: (11-01-2014 09:55 AM)dicknixon72 Wrote:
This should 'cripple' private commercial space travel the same way deHavilland Comet breakups 'crippled' commercial jet travel - lessons will be learned and progress will continue.
I agree.
"The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilised community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others...in the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute." - John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
Posts: 1,817
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2011
Reputation:
59
Virgin Galactic’s SpaceShipTwo Suffers Deadly Crash
11-01-2014, 11:07 AM
Commercial space travel is a boondoggle. Sorry. Ain't ever gonna matter. You can't propel hollywood celebrities to 17,500 miles per hour without losing a few in the process. Basic physics.
Also, you NEVER put wings on a spacecraft. Never. Ever. The space shuttle, for example, was known throughout the aerospace industry to be a horrible design. Werner von Braun, still the greatest rocket designer in history, was utterly contemptuous of the design. Wings (and a stupid solid fuel booster design) are the reason the reason we lost 14 (count em, 14) astronauts while the Russians, with their old-fashioned tried-and-true launcher, lost ZERO.
Posts: 6,656
Threads: 0
Joined: Apr 2014
Reputation:
27
Virgin Galactic’s SpaceShipTwo Suffers Deadly Crash
11-01-2014, 11:15 AM
The point is to get them to the upper reaches of the atmosphere is it not? The border of space.
Putting wings on it allows for this sight-seeing trip. I don't envision many people wanting to splash the cash to go into a training regime in order to cope with the launch, let alone the G forces afterwards for a traditional rocket launch. if that was the case then we'd see lots of celebs going up now.
There is money to be made here. Lots of money. Never underestimate the next best shiny thing for those with a shitload of cash.
Space is our next frontier and what we're forgetting is the leaps of technological prowess afforded to the likes of NASA for these types of endeavor. You think the US government is going to participate in shuttling people into space before 2030? It isn't feasible because we're not in the mood.
Like all things new they were bound to hit problems. Anyone remember the initial jet and rocket testings? I read up on those. Extremely complex feats of engineering which had a lot of issues, including deaths.
I just believe rockets are too volatile a delivery system to get people there. Wouldn't a scramjet be better?
Posts: 9,099
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation:
102
Virgin Galactic’s SpaceShipTwo Suffers Deadly Crash
11-01-2014, 12:03 PM
My condolences to the pilot that died and his family but let's call this project for what it is. It's a glorified roller coaster for the super wealthy. It's not a space ship, not even close to being one. It doesn't cross the 62 mile threshold to space and doesn't even make it to low earth orbit. Calling this thing a spaceship is nothing but BS marketing.
As much as I respect Richard Branson, I wish these billionaires like him and Elon Musk would put their effort into something the world actually needs. A system to detect and alter the course of incoming comets and asteroids. A few years back a series of asteroids collided into Jupiter. If those same rocks hit the earth, every human would be dead right now. A comet just grazed Mars last week. It's only a matter of time before it happens here again and right now we have nothing in place to alter the trajectory of these things. I really don't know why world leaders don't talk about this more often. If I was an uber billionaire this would be the first thing on my agenda.
Posts: 1,329
Threads: 0
Joined: Mar 2014
Virgin Galactic’s SpaceShipTwo Suffers Deadly Crash
11-01-2014, 01:34 PM
Quote: (11-01-2014 11:07 AM)MrLemon Wrote:
Ain't ever gonna matter. You can't propel hollywood celebrities to 17,500 miles per hour without losing a few in the process. Basic physics.
And this is a BAD thing?!?
Posts: 1,329
Threads: 0
Joined: Mar 2014
Virgin Galactic’s SpaceShipTwo Suffers Deadly Crash
11-01-2014, 01:37 PM
Quote: (11-01-2014 11:07 AM)MrLemon Wrote:
Werner von Braun, still the greatest rocket designer in history, was utterly contemptuous of the design. Wings (and a stupid solid fuel booster design) are the reason the reason we lost 14 (count em, 14) astronauts while the Russians, with their old-fashioned tried-and-true launcher, lost ZERO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V7me25aNtI
Posts: 1,329
Threads: 0
Joined: Mar 2014
Virgin Galactic’s SpaceShipTwo Suffers Deadly Crash
11-01-2014, 01:41 PM
Quote: (11-01-2014 01:24 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:
Or a slut lie detector app.
I have one!! It's when her lips are moving
Either set...
Posts: 1,329
Threads: 0
Joined: Mar 2014
Virgin Galactic’s SpaceShipTwo Suffers Deadly Crash
11-01-2014, 01:48 PM
I happened to have interacted w/ some of the Virgin Galactic folks in my professional life. A few observations:
1) Commercial space travel is a way to get publicity, which Branson knows how to leverage. The main cash-generating opportunity here is commercial satellite launch, and they know it.
2) Branson's uncontrollable hucksterism has infected every aspect of this operation, and senior executives across various functions are glad-handing over-promisers first and foremost. That's why VG's primary achievements to date are their joint marketing deals with Grey Goose ("the official vodka of space!") and Land Rover ("the official vehicle that takes you from the hangar to the launch pad!!"). Every year since 2007, Branson has said "Oooo- THIS is the year we begin commercial launch!! We're just a few MONTHS away!". They are, in reality, a decade away.
3) The hucksterism didn't stop at marketing deals. They brought on a new CFO to lead an IPO in 2015. Ain't gonna happen in 2015, 2016, or any year that starts with "201x".
4) For all these reasons, Elon Musk's SpaceX, which focused first and foremost on commercial satellite launch, will be 5+ years ahead of Virgin, at least.
Sorry to see what happened to the pilots. But I can't say I'm say that the snake-oil salesmen who run VG got their come-uppance.
Posts: 5,822
Threads: 0
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation:
72
Virgin Galactic’s SpaceShipTwo Suffers Deadly Crash
11-01-2014, 02:53 PM
Sad but not un-expected. Chuck Yeager has some insane stories of flight testing in the race for supersonic jets in the korean war era.
Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
Posts: 4,464
Threads: 0
Joined: Jul 2014
Virgin Galactic’s SpaceShipTwo Suffers Deadly Crash
11-01-2014, 03:30 PM
Quote: (11-01-2014 11:15 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:
I just believe rockets are too volatile a delivery system to get people there. Wouldn't a scramjet be better?
Its still in research. As I recall, from the people I've talked to who are or were involved, the problem is:
a) Getting the scramjet to 'ignition speed'. The scramjet needs to already be at a certain speed to create enough air induction ('ramming the air in'). In experiments they are normally doing this by taking it up above the atmosphere with conventional propulsion, then 'dropping it back in'. Basically, it has no way of bootstrapping itself, and needs initial propulsion from some other source.
b) The intake area. I had a chat with a cynical gentleman who had been previously been involved in scramjet R&D. He told me that because of how much frontal area the intake requires, there is little room for much else such as passengers, and that 'basically, it is a re-entry vehicle; it flies so fast that no counter-missile can hit it'.
Posts: 27
Threads: 0
Joined: Sep 2014
Reputation:
0
Virgin Galactic’s SpaceShipTwo Suffers Deadly Crash
11-01-2014, 05:48 PM
So exactly how would this work: How much would a trip cost? How long would the trip last? Would this actually be an enjoyable experience (or would you be subject to high G forces...)?