[Libertas]

Surprised no one's made a thread about this yet.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/.../17031569/
http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/mi...ey-n223126

Quote:

At a women's tech conference Thursday, Nadella said that women not asking for a raise is "good karma" and that "the system will give you the right raises as you go along."

Quote:

Asked about women who would like to ask for a raise, he replied in part that women should have "faith that the system will actually give you the right raises as you go along ... that’s good karma."

This seemingly innocuous statement didn't stop the SJWs from swarming though:

Quote:

"Even the most enlightened CEOs in technology, those who commit to change and to diversity, sometimes may be unaware of the extent of inequalities and the 'unconscious biases' that women encounter," said Salesforce.com exec Chitra Nayak on LinkedIn.

Notice how he's an enlightened CEO because "he's committed to diversity." It isn't about innovation and increasing your company's profitability. Diversity is the most important thing.

Chitra Nayak:



Moving on...

Quote:

"I'm absolutely reeling," said Rachel Sklar, who in 2010 founded Change the Ratio, a group focused on increasing visibility for women in tech. "He put to words the massive fear women have in asking for raises and told them to trust in a system that is proven to be broken."

The language used here isn't better than those rampant retards on Roosh's video against Laci Green. Yet here she is being quoted on a major news publication.

Quote:

Nadella tapped into two "zeitgeisty" issues with his comments. There's the pay gap: American women make 78 cents to their male counterparts' dollar, according to a U.S. Census Bureau report last month.

And just last week Microsoft revealed the ethnicity and gender breakdown of its workforce, which shows 29 percent of all employees are women. That figure falls to just over 17 percent women in both technical positions and leadership roles.

No, this obviously can't be due to the fact that most women just aren't interested in working at Microsoft.

At any rate, Nadella quickly backtracked:

Quote:

"I answered that question completely wrong" and "I believe men and women should get equal pay for equal work."

Quote:

Was inarticulate re how women should ask for raise. Our industry must close gender pay gap so a raise is not needed because of a bias #GHC14

Way to toe the party line, Nadella. Especially considering that what you said wasn't at all incompatible with those later statements.

That still didn't stop the SJWs from wanting him fired though:

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/world-o...la-1268743

Quote:

Apologies without action are meaningless. If Nadella was serious about equality he could make salaries at Microsoft transparent, ensure pay parity for women and men, and bring Microsoft's family leave up to the industry standard set by companies like Facebook, Instagram, and Reddit.

That's why UltraViolet members are speaking out now, and demanding that Microsoft fire Nadella and replace him with a CEO who will help close the gender gap, not just tell women to wait their turn.

I don't believe he's going to be fired for this. After all, he's not a white male, so he still has that diversity get out of jail free card. It'd be interesting to see what would have happened if Steve Ballmer had said this a year or two ago.

Still, the SJW invasion of tech continues.

[Basil Ransom]

Strongly disagree. You're being a hack by simply taking the opposite position of feminists, regardless of the truth.

Nadella gave a douchey, the-corporation-is-God response. The corporation only has its own self interest at heart. It doesn't give out raises because plenty of people will work on without them. If you want a raise, ask for it, and set up plans to switch companies in case you don't get it. Nadella's response was bullshit; feminists protested because they were on the receiving end of it. Always side with truth.

Companies would suppress wages if they could get away with it. They did, very recently - Steve Jobs and other Silicon Valley executives spearheaded a conspiracy to suppress tech wages. Now they're getting a little slap on the wrist for it.

[Libertas]

I'm not saying you shouldn't ask for a raise. I'm simply disagreeing with the over the top reaction to said "douchey response," such as wanting to fire the guy and the excuse to raise up the "I'm being oppressed" card.

That's how I saw it, anyway.

[Ensam]

(10-11-2014 09:53 AM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

Strongly disagree. You're being a hack by simply taking the opposite position of feminists, regardless of the truth.

Nadella gave a douchey, the-corporation-is-God response. The corporation only has its own self interest at heart. It doesn't give out raises because plenty of people will work on without them. If you want a raise, ask for it, and set up plans to switch companies in case you don't get it. Nadella's response was bullshit; feminists protested because they were on the receiving end of it. Always side with truth.

Companies would suppress wages if they could get away with it. They did, very recently - Steve Jobs and other Silicon Valley executives spearheaded a conspiracy to suppress tech wages. Now they're getting a little slap on the wrist for it.

Yeah, I've been guilty of this recently. When something gets my SJW facebook friends' panties in a bunch I find myself automatically taking the opposite position but that's just falling into the same lazy intellectual mode. At first I wanted to find a way to support this guy but he's just being a corporate shill. Execs have been saying this for years and they're just full of shit.

[MrLemon]

The net result of this will be as follows: middle-management and low-ranking men in the organization will be get fucked again. Non-feminist women will get fucked again.

Feminist assholes, lesbians, and lawyers will get a boost. Because of their legal challenges, they will get all kinds of management jobs they don't deserve and don't perform well at. They will be just cruising along collecting a fat salary and not doing anything, not contributing anything, knowing that they are untouchable. They'll fuck over and verbally abuse their male and non-feminist-femal subordinates. Upper management will write all this off as "a cost of doing business" and to make up the difference financially, they'll fuck over the lower class employees and engineers even more.

It used to be, that upper managers would throw a few bones to their lower level people, or to startup entrepreneurs, just because, well, when you have 500 zillion dollars, you like to throw a few million once in a while to somebody that you like or admire, who is scrappy or technically brilliant. It's not perfect but it really helps lubricate the system. But now with this pressure from the feminist assholes, those little bits of extra money will go to undeserving women instead.

I'm in tech company management, have been at every level of these organizations. I can just see how this is going to happen.

[Sombro]

[getdownonit]

This has nothing to do with patriarchy or misogyny. It's corporatist through and through. Companies by and large aren't going to offer someone a raise without asking for one.

[Basil Ransom]

"The net result of this will be as follows: middle-management and low-ranking men in the organization will be get fucked again. Non-feminist women will get fucked again. "


Yeah, that was the implicit trajectory of those employee demographics statistics released by the big tech companies. The feminists knew they were mostly male, and finally had their demands for the release of the stats met.

It's ironic that while tech guys have a very masculine form of intelligence, they lack a masculine frame and bearing, such that they are vulnerable to the predations of these little pink despots.

[monster]

(10-11-2014 10:43 AM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

It's ironic that while tech guys have a very masculine form of intelligence, yet lack masculine frame and bearing, such that they are vulnerable to the predations of these little pink despots.

hah, quote of the day!

[SteveMcMahon]

Though the feminist wage gap is mostly bullshit, it is true that where salaries are largely based on what you can negotiate, women are worse at asking for pay rises.

I work in technical sales. It's what you might call a macho environment. Most of the sales staff are men, but we have a few girls too. (By the way, a lot of Game concepts are applicable to sales too - if you want to make a lot of money, are good with people, and don't mind hard work and lots of crazy drunken corporate events, technical sales is worth considering. It's a shitload more fun than your average office drone job, and the financial rewards are there for the taking.)

The thing about sales is that you're expected to always be selling - not just to your customers, but to your own company too. By that, I mean that things like your compensation package are always up for negotiation, and if you don't ask you will not receive. There's always a lot more flexibility on pay in sales than there is in admin type jobs.

When I was a young exec, new to the company, I was in the CEO's office one day when he had to nip out for a few minutes. He had a copy of the sales team payroll report on his desk, so naturally I read it. Being young and naive, I was surprised to see how much variation there was, and not necessarily in the way you'd expect.

One girl was a star performer at the time, she was regularly pulling in millions of pounds in revenue and hundreds of K profit a month. She'd been with the company for years and her basic salary was £19k. I was just out of school and my basic was nearly £10k higher. We were all on the same commission scheme so the only reason she wasn't earning more was that she never asked for it.

One guy was on £45k basic, and he was just an average performer. But he obviously asked for the money, so fair play to him.

Asking for a rise is risky though, and women are risk averse. There's no harm in asking, but if you get a rise and then fail to hit your target, you can feel the prickly sensation of crosshairs on your back.

Women are also more likely to be afraid of being told "no", because they tend to take everything personally. Whereas you can tell a salesman "no", call him a cunt, and tell him to get the fuck out of your office, and there probably won't be any hard feelings. I worked for one guy who liked carrying a baseball bat around the office when he was doing the rounds of his sales staff. We all thought it was funny.

I had a better offer that I was seriously considering a few years back, so I went to the sales director and talked to him about it. This was just after the 2008 financial crisis and the business was putting out word that we were lucky to have jobs and shouldn't expect any pay increases above 2%.

He came back to me with a 34% pay rise. I think I kept my poker face on, but I damn near fell out of my chair. I felt like putting on a mask and carrying a bag marked "loot" as I walked to my car at the end of the day, but then I realised the sales director drove a brand new Aston Martin Vanquish and I only had a 5 year old Mercedes C-class.

34% was a lot to me, but a pittance to the board of directors.

TL;DR version - Nadella is talking bollocks, but what do you expect a CEO to say? If you're good at what you do, you can always ask for more money. Having "faith" is good advice for saints, but for us regular people cash is better.

[Basil Ransom]

Yes, it's simple price discrimination, but with wages. From a company perspective, why would you pay $100k for something when you can get it for $80k?

There are reasons not to do this, but such wage discrimination is ubiquitous.

[Lizard King]

(10-11-2014 09:41 AM)Libertas Wrote:  

Would not bang.

[TravelerKai]

(10-11-2014 03:06 PM)Lizard King Wrote:  

(10-11-2014 09:41 AM)Libertas Wrote:  

Would not bang.

Come on man.... Why even bother saying that? Who would bang that? If you say Cattle Rustler, then he needs to be banned. That woman is probably a strong candidate for a 1/10. It's hard to find 1's, but she is extremely borderline 1 to a 2 max out of 10.

[polymath]

Yesterday I worked from 7am Friday morning to 1:30am Saturday morning.

I don't ask for more money than anyone. I just want to do a good job and make money for my business unit. I know that I will get rewarded via my boss if I succeed at that.

Shouldn't this be the way that it works?

[Lizard King]

(10-11-2014 03:31 PM)polymath Wrote:  

Yesterday I worked from 7am Friday morning to 1:30am Saturday morning.

I don't ask for more money than anyone. I just want to do a good job and make money for my business unit. I know that I will get rewarded via my boss if I succeed at that.

Shouldn't this be the way that it works?

That IS how it works.

Business doesn't see gender, it sees results and it will pay for results.

@ Kai, yes you're right, that was a poor contribution.

[Onto]

In a capitalistic society the reason women will always make less than a man is a metaphysical one.

The masculine says it's ok to be a self-interested ego in the world, taking for yourself at the expense of others. Establishing yourself as a separate identity.

The feminine says there should be no self-interest in the world and if you act that way you're being an ego. Everyone should be the same, making the same.

So women have a difficult time directly ask for a raise because they will feel like they are being an ego, which goes against their claim they aren't. Thus it must be just "given" to them. This metaphysical root of the feminine is the same reason they want men to read their minds. If they have to tell a man what they want, they feel like an ego.

It's amusing the feminists are so riled up by the CEO's statements because he's really taking the burden from them by saying they don't need to ask for raises and to have faith they will be just be given.

These same feminists of course aren't happy either with a policy that says you muster up the "balls" to ask for a raise.

They really want all corporations and the world to subscribe to the feminine principle. Their demand is of course self-interested and are completely dark to how they are being an ego by demanding no egotism.

[HungWeiLo]

What's wrong with Nadella saying in response to the question about "What he would tell women who are hesitant to ask for a raise" that they should rely on the system to work for them? I mean, the assumption to his answer of the question is already couched in that asking for a raise isn't an option so what should women do instead. If you don't ask for what you want, the only option is to wait for it to be given to you, if you're even going to get it at all.

I think feminists are blowing this out of proportion because they didn't read, understand, or care to consider the question he was asked. Considering the question, there's only one logical response and that's to wait and let the system work the way it should, i.e. if you do good work the system will reward you, it may be slower than if you would have asked for it yourself and took steps to control your own career but raises and promotions will come, if you perform.

Seems like simple logic to me