[Brian]

yep, St Pete

[Luckystar]

(04-04-2011 06:24 PM)LostGringo Wrote:  

Eastern Europe WAS epic - before the rise of discount airlines, which opened the place up to every dipshit with a few pounds/Euros and dreams of weekend romps with supermodels. There still are some good places, but the low hanging fruit was picked a long time ago. I would head directly to EE and spend the rest of my holiday cash there. Pick a place and snag an apartment and get on it. Personally, I would pass on Prague, Budapest, the Baltics and Poland. I prefer the southern Balkans/Romania/Moldova; beautiful girls and far less "fishing pressure". Don't even think about Russia. Ukraine is decent for hunting, but the place is really grim and the food is shit. Apartments are beyond stupid expensive.

I don't know about EE these days. The girls are attractive, but things are definitely changing there.

The latest reports on the Baltics have been very, very underwhelming. Prague and Budapest were the first EE cities to get exploited. Krakow is where everyone horny dude is flocking at the moment. Russia has the absolute worst vibe of any place I've ever been to. I m sure Ukraine is comparably terrible.

I guess Balkans, Romania, etc are the best left.

[Luckystar]

(04-04-2011 07:18 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Scandinavia is the only place I've been where aggressiveness is NOT valued by women. Beforehand I thought it was universal trait that women select for.

Roosh, what is it that Scandinavian women do value? Surely, there is some formula that works? I'm mean it doesn't seem they are asexual, right.

Why not Poland or Russia?

There is a huge difference between Poland and Russia. Russia is a beast that needs to be thought out very carefully before venturing into. Poland is far more welcoming.

[oldnemesis]

(04-04-2011 09:30 PM)Brian Wrote:  

I've heard stories about Russia that would make me nervous going there alone. I had a friend go into a bar w/a buddy, order drinks, and after about 10 minutes they both got that "uh oh" feeling where they knew they had been drugged.

Being native from Russia, this story is extremely hard to believe. It assumes the bar staff drugged them, expecting what? They'd pass out in a bar, in front of other patrons? And what for? If some guys wanted their stuff, they'd do old fashioned robberies - but most foreigners do not carry anything which would worth risking a robbery.

Now if you said they got drunk in a bar, said something rude to another Russian company which was drinking there (especially something like asking whether they're gay), and got the crap beaten out of them - this I would definitely believe. In this case I'd also believe that when the police came and heard the story, they told them to fuck off and left. Being obnoxious and rude in Russia WILL get you in trouble sooner or later, and there is very little tolerance for obnoxious foreigners. Even Brits more or less behave themselves in Moscow.

PS. Roosh, I've heard that the visa free travel agreement between Turkey and Russia is about to become active. Everything is signed and ratified, they're figuring out some formalities. Once it is up, you're free to go to Russia for 30 days visa free.

[Roosh]

(04-04-2011 11:02 PM)Luckystar Wrote:  

Roosh, what is it that Scandinavian women do value? Surely, there is some formula that works? I'm mean it doesn't seem they are asexual, right.

I haven't figured out the formula, and honestly don't care enough for the girls to do so, but strong social circle, appearance, and an "outgoing beta" vibe seem to the correct path. Girls seem to genuinely like nice guys.

Sex is more egalitarian here, a mirror of the culture. Instead of few guys banging a lot of women, like in the States, you have more guys getting laid but fewer can boast of rock star numbers.

[Easy E]

"I haven't figured out the formula, and honestly don't care enough for the girls to do so, but strong social circle, appearance, and an "outgoing beta" vibe seem to the correct path. Girls seem to genuinely like nice guys.

Sex is more egalitarian here, a mirror of the culture. Instead of few guys banging a lot of women, like in the States, you have more guys getting laid but fewer can boast of rock star numbers."

Roosh, you should just go ahead and head to Sweden. It would be interesting for you to give a final report on Scandinavia.

After that, hit EE with a vengeance.

[Brian]

(04-05-2011 12:33 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(04-04-2011 09:30 PM)Brian Wrote:  

I've heard stories about Russia that would make me nervous going there alone. I had a friend go into a bar w/a buddy, order drinks, and after about 10 minutes they both got that "uh oh" feeling where they knew they had been drugged.

Being native from Russia, this story is extremely hard to believe. It assumes the bar staff drugged them, expecting what? They'd pass out in a bar, in front of other patrons? And what for? If some guys wanted their stuff, they'd do old fashioned robberies - but most foreigners do not carry anything which would worth risking a robbery.

Now if you said they got drunk in a bar, said something rude to another Russian company which was drinking there (especially something like asking whether they're gay), and got the crap beaten out of them - this I would definitely believe. In this case I'd also believe that when the police came and heard the story, they told them to fuck off and left. Being obnoxious and rude in Russia WILL get you in trouble sooner or later, and there is very little tolerance for obnoxious foreigners. Even Brits more or less behave themselves in Moscow.

PS. Roosh, I've heard that the visa free travel agreement between Turkey and Russia is about to become active. Everything is signed and ratified, they're figuring out some formalities. Once it is up, you're free to go to Russia for 30 days visa free.

This story is from one of my closest, most honest friends who has traveled extensively so I am certain its legit.

[Excelsior]

(04-05-2011 10:32 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

I haven't figured out the formula, and honestly don't care enough for the girls to do so, but strong social circle, appearance, and an "outgoing beta" vibe seem to the correct path. Girls seem to genuinely like nice guys.

Sex is more egalitarian here, a mirror of the culture. Instead of few guys banging a lot of women, like in the States, you have more guys getting laid but fewer can boast of rock star numbers.

Man, that sounds really promising. Can you maybe elaborate on this dynamic there and how you've seen it play out?
I've read this whole thread and understand the negatives as they've been presented, but statements like these make me think that it still might be a worthwhile destination for some guys.

[K-man]

If you wish to come to Bulgaria, I volunteer to show you around Sofia and may host you for a while, as my wife is visiting her parents now for several weeks.
Or if you visit later in the summer I may be able to host you at the beach house, depending on when I'll be there.

[Roosh]

(04-05-2011 12:38 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

Man, that sounds really promising. Can you maybe elaborate on this dynamic there and how you've seen it play out?
I've read this whole thread and understand the negatives as they've been presented, but statements like these make me think that it still might be a worthwhile destination for some guys.

No it's not promising because success is based less on game skill that another factors which are harder to grasp and optimize. Right now I can't elaborate on it because I don't completely understand things myself,.

[speakeasy]

(04-05-2011 10:32 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Sex is more egalitarian here, a mirror of the culture. Instead of few guys banging a lot of women, like in the States, you have more guys getting laid but fewer can boast of rock star numbers.

Fascinating how that egalitarian outlook trickles down to everything from economics to sexual life. These are the kinds of insights I'm curious about. The "outgoing beta" vibe sums up quite well my general impression of Scandinavians as well as just about all Germans I've met. A lot of the dudes from that part of the world do seem genuinely "nice guy-ish" which is probably why Scandinavian countries rate as the least corrupt nations in the world. Compare that to alpha countries like Russia which is rife with corruption, gangsterism and cronyism.

But anyway...I hope you decide to continue on to Sweden because so many dudes have such a strong interest in going there that it would be a tragedy not to have a report from an expert in the field. Besides, I'm sure a "Bang Sweden" would sell a hell of a lot of copies.

[LostGringo]

I have never met a Scandinavian asshole in all my travels. Lots of "nice guys" and general good shits that I've met on the road. No doubt they have a different sexual code than what Americans are used to. Very easy to get laid, but not for the aggressive types; the best advice I received in Stockholm was to hit the bars and get well lubricated, then get to the clubs before the insane lines - and then wait until some woman approaches you - and it won't happen before 1:30am. You will be selected, or you won't. Great if you get selected, really fucked up if you don't. Girls will be fully drunk by then and will have paid for all their own drinks. Casual sex is nothing and there is a good chance that she will have no interest in seeing you again. She might even take you to her parents house if she lives at home. Try that in Latin America.

I have also met plenty of Scandinavians/WestEuro's in South America and some do well and some do not. These guys often need to change their approach from passive to aggressive when in SA and the ones who do well learn quickly that they need to be much more aggressive. But, being blond, blue eyed and handsome with a great physique never hurts.

Bottom line is that all these cultures have different norms and in my experience the successful man learns them, respects them and then rapes and plunders with maximum effectiveness.

Constructive criticism. I realize that you are trying to make a gig out of writing about this stuff and respect and admire that. Hell, I bought one your books and had a good laugh with it. What I would enjoy and return for is a regular (at least daily Thu, Fri Sat) "road report" reviewing the past day/night mission. Where you went, what the vibe was, quality of women, etc. I'm much more interested in that then I am reading about the fucked up state of male/female affairs. I already know about that. What I don't know about is what the action was like in Skopje last Friday night.

Why not Russia and Poland? I don't like Russia and I don't like the vibe. It's a nasty place and the girls are evil gold-digging cunts. You better have a big wallet and be really jaded. Also a real pain to visit; visa, costs, etc. Poland is fine. Good looking women and good vibe when I was there last. Also 95% catholic. Now crawling with WestEuro's looking for poon - at least last I heard.

[Roosh]

Quote:

What I would enjoy and return for is a regular (at least daily Thu, Fri Sat) "road report" reviewing the past day/night mission. Where you went, what the vibe was, quality of women, etc.

This is happening behind the scenes. I know guys want regular reports, but I've learned not to put up conclusions before I had the complete experience. For the most accurate data/analysis, it's better I write an entire guide first, edit it properly, and then release it when I'm out of the country.

I'm working on Iceland now. When I'm done they'll be a stream of posts about it. For every country I visit, there will be eventually be packages of blog posts dissecting it in every which way.

[Global Baller]

(04-05-2011 04:32 PM)LostGringo Wrote:  

Very easy to get laid, but not for the aggressive types; the best advice I received in Stockholm was to hit the bars and get well lubricated, then get to the clubs before the insane lines - and then wait until some woman approaches you - and it won't happen before 1:30am. You will be selected, or you won't. Great if you get selected, really fucked up if you don't. Girls will be fully drunk by then and will have paid for all their own drinks.

I'm an Afr-Am guy with beaucoup experience in Sverige, and this is my M.O. to a T. I really believe that any brotha (especially from US) will be approached in clubs by ladie(s) and asked to dance. In Sweden, this always happens to me. It's really a no-lose proposition. Cause the majority of the chicks in the clubs meet -- or exceed -- my standards.

BTW, approaches usually happen whenever the club gets poppin' -- which can be b4 01.30.

[whosyourdaddy]

Here's what i think you should do:

Hit South Eastern Europe:
Romania, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Serbia, etc and end up in Turkey. Turkey has a ton of hot women (mainly in western Turkey) and in summer there'll be a ton of Russians and other Europeans partying there. From there, you could also hit the Greek Islands in summer.

From there, you could either travel to Syria, Lebanon, Jordan then Israel or I highly recommend heading for Armenia, Georgia, Uzbekistan and Almaty in Kazakhstan.

This way, you wouldn't have any issues like you could have in Russia. Additionally there are lots of ethnic Russians in places like Israel or Uzbekistan and you won't have any issues in these countries. And btw, i think you'll be fine in Poland, it's more the Baltic states and Russia where you'd have to worry.

Also Russian women will be more humble outside of Moscow and St. Petersburg, and i think especially in places like Uzbekistan. Other forumers have also mentioned that ethnic Russian women in Israel as fairly easy.

After seeing this thread (courtesy Athlone McGinnis, in the Israeli Girls thread) Israelis seem as hot as Argentinians to me, but i've never been to Israel, so not speaking from any personal experience...
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread...07&page=62

   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

[Excelsior]

Alright, so let me just briefly recap the series of posts that's giving me my line of thinking here(bold is my emphasis):

(04-05-2011 10:32 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

I haven't figured out the formula, and honestly don't care enough for the girls to do so, but strong social circle, appearance, and an "outgoing beta" vibe seem to the correct path. Girls seem to genuinely like nice guys.

Sex is more egalitarian here, a mirror of the culture. Instead of few guys banging a lot of women, like in the States, you have more guys getting laid but fewer can boast of rock star numbers.

(04-05-2011 03:02 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

The "outgoing beta" vibe sums up quite well my general impression of Scandinavians as well as just about all Germans I've met. A lot of the dudes from that part of the world do seem genuinely "nice guy-ish" which is probably why Scandinavian countries rate as the least corrupt nations in the world. Compare that to alpha countries like Russia which is rife with corruption, gangsterism and cronyism.

(04-05-2011 04:32 PM)LostGringo Wrote:  

I have never met a Scandinavian asshole in all my travels. Lots of "nice guys" and general good shits that I've met on the road. No doubt they have a different sexual code than what Americans are used to. Very easy to get laid, but not for the aggressive types; the best advice I received in Stockholm was to hit the bars and get well lubricated, then get to the clubs before the insane lines - and then wait until some woman approaches you - and it won't happen before 1:30am.

(04-05-2011 04:58 PM)Global Baller Wrote:  

I'm an Afr-Am guy with beaucoup experience in Sverige, and this is my M.O. to a T. I really believe that any brotha (especially from US) will be approached in clubs by ladie(s) and asked to dance. In Sweden, this always happens to me. It's really a no-lose proposition. Cause the majority of the chicks in the clubs meet -- or exceed -- my standards.

Roosh has provided here many criticisms of the region, and I don't doubt their validity. But judging from all I'm reading here, it seems like a certain type of guy with certain traits could do well in this region if he:

-Is a "nice guy".
-Is sort of an "outgoing beta"(basically a "greater beta" of sorts, plenty of those in the US)
-Runs passive game (relies on females to either indicate interest clearly or make the initial approach)
-Has the other basic pre-requisites(is presentable, is in shape, etc).

Furthermore, judging from what Global Baller and many others have stated on this forum about the Nordic nations, you can add bonus points if you're an African-American.

So, let's put ourselves in the shoes of an American greater beta who combines these traits. Basically, should you travel to this region you can expect to find(relative to what you have in the US) women who are:

-Far more tolerant of your "nice guy" persona(as Roosh states, they seem to "genuinely like nice guys", whereas American girls seem to hate them quite passionately..
-Not as gung-ho for aggressive game (which most Betas aren't great at anyway) and, judging from what Global Baller and LostGringo have said, far more tolerant and actually somewhat fond of passive game (a style a lot more suited to the nature of the beta who, by definition, is not a master pua/gamer). In other words, it appears that these girls willingly take on a lot of the legwork for you-useful for a guy who has not mastered game.
-Quite a bit more attractive (read: thinner) and sexually open than the average American girl.
-More "egalitarian" sexually-fewer alpha-chasers, more even spread of numbers among men(read: better chances for you to get somewhere as a beta, as opposed to life in the US where you watch the girls run after a few men with far more game than you). This is bad news if you are gunning for a really high notch count, but would most greater betas be opposed to this?

That's a deal I'd take.

My early(and relatively uninformed) conclusion is that the Nordic countries are a decent place to be a beta-you get access to women who are more open to you sexually, more tolerant of nice guys like yourself, and prettier on average than what you could find in the US.

If you're Roosh (who, judging from what I've read has killed his inner "nice guy" beta quite some time ago), it might not be such a good destination since nice guys are actually valued and high notch counts are harder to attain(more "egalitarian" sexual mores).

Context (read: who is the guy visiting) seems to be key here. at least, that is the conclusion that my(again, relatively uninformed) mind is forming.

[K-man]

@whosyourdaddy - be careful of recommending a country because of some party pics you saw.
like in your 4th picture, yes there are 5 girls in the foreground, but just look at all the dudes hollering at them in the background! easily 3:1 dudes:girls
I'm sure if you went to the website of Ultra Bar, wherefrom comes the famous picture Roosh uses to illustrate the unfavorable dick:pussy ratio, they would have posted "party" pics with a lot of hot girls and no dudes.

[Menace]

Actually, Israel looks good. Roosh you can peacock with a yarmulke and pull like crazy.

[Roosh]

Athlone: You're summary seems quite accurate to me, at least for Denmark.

Quote:

That's a deal I'd take.

Sure if you live there permanently, have a strong social circle, and don't mind generally sloppy/masculine/frumpy girls. But if you're traveling through, countries like Peru become better options.

[docsedated]

@ Athlone Nice Summary..... and I am liking the concept of the " Guy visiting "

Roosh : How would you say Denmark would fare for a player who just want to get a fill of white girls even if they are average ?

[Excelsior]

(04-06-2011 07:02 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Athlone: You're summary seems quite accurate to me, at least for Denmark.

Quote:

That's a deal I'd take.

Sure if you live there permanently, have a strong social circle, and don't mind generally sloppy/masculine/frumpy girls. But if you're traveling through, countries like Peru become better options.

So investment is absolutely necessary...that makes sense. Nice guys are valued in these societies, and nice guys are the ones who tend to invest the most in their women and relationships. This requirement fits right into a beta's skillset, so if the culture values betas/"nice guys" then it would come to be expected by the women and crucial to actually succeeding with them.

So we can tentatively conclude that Nordic countries (or at least Sweden, Iceland and Denmark, all of which have been discussed to some length in this thread) are good for betas who run passive game and are willing to invest in longer stays and the subsequent creation of a local social circle. They stand a good chance of significantly improving their results in these nations over what they'd get in, say, the USA (with bonus points for the African American guys among them, apparently). For an American greater beta open to a long term type of deal, this would be a worthwhile trip(assuming he can gain residence somehow).

If you are only in it for the short term, South America and South Asia are far better destinations with less overall investment required for success on top of a much lower cost of living. Scandinavia and Iceland are not among the best places for a player to rack up a high notch count, in spite of the extremely liberal sexual perceptions we in the US maintain about these regions.

[Screwston]

(04-04-2011 10:14 PM)Kurupt Wrote:  

(04-04-2011 09:30 PM)Brian Wrote:  

I've heard stories about Russia that would make me nervous going there alone. I had a friend go into a bar w/a buddy, order drinks, and after about 10 minutes they both got that "uh oh" feeling where they knew they had been drugged. they left ASAP, ran back to their car, got in, locked the doors, and passed out for hours.

Hahaha drink spikes you!

If this is true i gotta add it to the very long list of epic stories I've heard from just about any foreigner visiting Russia. Which city was this, if you don't mind me asking? Sounds like St. Pete.

What people have to realize about Russia is it will never have western style democracy or freedoms. It will always be in this constant state of batshit fucked up. People say things like: "Russia should really clean up its act, it's going to lose so much money if tourism drops." The last thing Russia wants is tourists. The country barely cares about its own citizens, much less the satisfaction of visitors. There have been countless thinkers and intellectuals, Russian and foreign alike, who have proposed ways to "reform" and "modernize" Russia for the best. Some have even succeeded in ruling the nation and trying out the theories. At the end of the day, its a hell of a quirky country, and as such will never lose its appeal for the jaded few who are tired of travel to friendly nations.

I would love to check out Russia one day. Not for the girls but just to see how it is over there. I had a best friend in middle school from there. I wish I still talked to him to get some info but he'd probably ask why the hell I wanna go visit lol. If you're scared to visit a country, you're probably scared even to go to restaurants in certain american neighborhoods. Just keep your eyes and ears open and don't act like a retard

[Easy E]

"So we can tentatively conclude that Nordic countries (or at least Sweden, Iceland and Denmark, all of which have been discussed to some length in this thread) are good for betas who run passive game and are willing to invest in longer stays and the subsequent creation of a local social circle. They stand a good chance of significantly improving their results in these nations over what they'd get in, say, the USA (with bonus points for the African American guys among them, apparently). For an American greater beta open to a long term type of deal, this would be a worthwhile trip(assuming he can gain residence somehow)."

I don't know if this is the case.

Scandinavian countries are expensive to visit and your success with the local women seems to be more based on your appearance & social circle than on any game skill. Not good...what if the chicks there don't dig you for some reason, you are fucked (or not, ha!).

There is a reason Scandinavian countries are not popular destinations for guys to go to get laid.

Still, it would be cool if Roosh visited Sweden just to get his take on it.

[Luckystar]

(04-07-2011 05:06 AM)houston Wrote:  

(04-04-2011 10:14 PM)Kurupt Wrote:  

(04-04-2011 09:30 PM)Brian Wrote:  

I've heard stories about Russia that would make me nervous going there alone. I had a friend go into a bar w/a buddy, order drinks, and after about 10 minutes they both got that "uh oh" feeling where they knew they had been drugged. they left ASAP, ran back to their car, got in, locked the doors, and passed out for hours.

Hahaha drink spikes you!

If this is true i gotta add it to the very long list of epic stories I've heard from just about any foreigner visiting Russia. Which city was this, if you don't mind me asking? Sounds like St. Pete.

What people have to realize about Russia is it will never have western style democracy or freedoms. It will always be in this constant state of batshit fucked up. People say things like: "Russia should really clean up its act, it's going to lose so much money if tourism drops." The last thing Russia wants is tourists. The country barely cares about its own citizens, much less the satisfaction of visitors. There have been countless thinkers and intellectuals, Russian and foreign alike, who have proposed ways to "reform" and "modernize" Russia for the best. Some have even succeeded in ruling the nation and trying out the theories. At the end of the day, its a hell of a quirky country, and as such will never lose its appeal for the jaded few who are tired of travel to friendly nations.

I would love to check out Russia one day. Not for the girls but just to see how it is over there. I had a best friend in middle school from there. I wish I still talked to him to get some info but he'd probably ask why the hell I wanna go visit lol. If you're scared to visit a country, you're probably scared even to go to restaurants in certain american neighborhoods. Just keep your eyes and ears open and don't act like a retard

I don't think its about fear or being scared. Russia is a place where the vibe fuckin sucks IME. A lot of negative energy, especially if you are a colored person.

[Luckystar]

The most surprising thing about Roosh's accounts is not the outgoing beta phenomenon and so called social circle 'game', it's the lack of quality pussy.