[Sonsowey]

This group is intriguing, if you listen to Rap or have read Malcom X's autobiography, you have some vague idea of what is going on.

I was reading into the Nation of Islam, found the man who taught Elijah Muhammad, the man who supposedly originated the belief system. Fard Muhammad :


Interestingly, the man who formed the religion declaring black men Gods and white men devils described his race as White, and Spanish, on census forms. Clearly the man is of mixed heritage...

It is interesting to me that most of the best, most intellectual and most talented rappers are five percenters, with their beliefs essentially traced back to this man, who it seems like made all this stuff up.

It is easy to get someone to believe something that flatters them I guess, but do people really believe these stories? Supreme Alphabet is a pretty silly concept, claiming that English words and letters have spiritual significance based on their spelling. For instance, Allah means Arm Leg Leg Arm Head, which is what a man is made of, showing that the black man is god.

This is obviously ridiculous considering this is just a loan word from Arabic into English and the English language did not exist at the time of Islams birth, etc.

It seems so crazy to buy this recently concocted bunch of stories, yet most of the bestand brightest rappers do.

[Kabal]

Likely combinations of explanations:

[1] Most "intelligent" people do not use their intelligence for truth-seeking in ascertaining their beliefs, but rather use their intelligence for figuring out what they should believe (or espouse to believe) in order to gain social acceptance and/or gain social status. I would say this is most prevalent on the mid-right side of the bell curve, like IQ 110-130 or so. People dumber than that tend to be too dumb to figure out what status-enhancing beliefs might be, and people smarter than that find any discrepancies between truth and status-enhancing beliefs to be too jarring from a cognitive-dissonance standpoint.

This is how PC beliefs, like sexual and racial egalitarianism, tend to spread, driven by the modal college-educated (above-average in intelligence, but not especially intelligent) crowd.

[2] There is a large stochastic element to success in rap. The rapper of, say, 5 standard deviation career success is not that much more talented in absolute terms than a rapper of 2 standard deviation career success. Just like how Jennifer Lawrence and Taylor Swift are not that much better-looking and/or more talented than ArbitraryReplacementBimboX.

Contrast this against something like basketball or mathematics, where the 5-std basketball-player or mathematician is a universe away from the 2-std basketball-player or mathematician.

Malkiel's coin-flipping analogy in A Random Walk Down Wall Street provides an evocative analogy; in our case, where celebrating successful rappers would be like celebrating winners of a coin-flipping tournament--i.e. they are just winners of a tournament of luck.

[3] Success in rap is not very g-loaded, that is, it does not correlate well to other cognitive tasks. Thus, the "best and brightest rappers" still might not be that intelligent (where intelligence is defined as the general cognitive factor), but rather possess domain-specific expertise, at best (which is questionable, given [2]).

[speakeasy]

Numerology and making tenuous numeric connections between entirely unrelated facts has always been part and parcel for the NOI. Farrakhan gives a rather, um....interesting explanation as to why the Star of David has 6 angles:

FF to 1:00.

Farrakhan is an interesting man though. Like many great orators, he's charming and connects well with his audience and can often speak for hours on end about anything. He can speak truth and be very red pill one minute and then go off into tin foil hat zone the next. The NOI and 5%ers are a cult at the end of the day. They believe in strange shit, very strange shit, even the intelligent people in those organizations. They believe an African mad scientist named Yacub created the white race as a race of devils by selectively killing and breeding people until they became progressively lighter.

[OGNorCal707]

5% and nation of Islam are not the same thing, I'm pretty sure 5% broke off from the Nation of Islam. A lot of rappers spit about 5%, some favorites are Nas and Guru from Gangstarr. I think the 5% thing is that they believe 85% of people are just ignorant sheep that are totally blind to reality and lack knowledge, 10% have knowledge, but use it for nefarious purposes to keep the 85% down, then there is the 5% that have pure true knowledge and use the knowledge for good.

[Sonsowey]

It is all interesting becauss, as an Atheist, I believe all religion is just made up stories.

But ancient religions at least have the force of the ages and huge communities of believers, so it is easy to accept their crazy stories since everyone around you believes them.

A new religion is invented, and people see it plainly as wild stories with no basis in reality invented by some huckster. I wonder if that was the case thousands of years ago. Was the Prophet Muhammard really just some clever huckster trying to get what he could by fooling people?

If you read about Fard Muhammad, there is a lot of evidence he was a complete con man, arrested many times for petty crimes, his name changed many times, his identity changed many times, of course the NOI denies this...

I wonder how "smart" the best rappers are. Jay Z was a truly great artist, now is a truly great businessman, I would not imagine such a life is possible from random luck. Kanye, I would suspect has a very high IQ as well as Jay Z. Others like Gza have a reputation for being one of the smartest rappers out there. I have no way to estimate an IQ really but 120+ wouldnt surprise me at all.

[tomtud]

Had the blacks not suffered as much as they did in the USA, none of these cults would exist or even consist of more than 100 members. You have black Muslims in Sudan, Nigeria etc who are extreme cult like as well. All of them share extremist views in some sort of way and what unifies them apart from the religious aspect is politics. Islam has a political component in it. The NOI was involved in the civil rights movement. Boko haram in Nigeria are political in that they want to establish their own state. They are intolerant of other people and other religions.

Let's call a spade a spade. Any white famous person who joins an extremist group for example neo nazi would be killed by the media. Yet when others do it, it is ok.

[aSimpNamedBrokeback]

(10-07-2014 12:57 AM)tomtud Wrote:  

Let's call a spade a spade. Any white famous person who joins an extremist group for example neo nazi would be killed by the media. Yet when others do it, it is ok.

What famous black person belongs to the NOI? I can't think of anyone off the of my head. The media did do a pretty good job trying to kill Obama over one edited Reverend Wright clip. Even with that said, isn't it a stretch to compare the NOI to Neo-Nazis.

[MidWest]

(10-07-2014 01:27 AM)aSimpNamedBrokeback Wrote:  

(10-07-2014 12:57 AM)tomtud Wrote:  

Let's call a spade a spade. Any white famous person who joins an extremist group for example neo nazi would be killed by the media. Yet when others do it, it is ok.

What famous black person belongs to the NOI? I can't think of anyone off the of my head. The media did do a pretty good job trying to kill Obama over one edited Reverend Wright clip. Even with that said, isn't it a stretch to compare the NOI to Neo-Nazis.

Its funny because Jeremiah Wright wasn't even that radical. They definitely blew that thing up out of proportion.

^^^^ He probably shouldn't have said "Goddamn America" there in the end, but everything else is not really controversial at all, in fact there is some truth in what he is saying.

[WestIndianArchie]

This ain't really the place for this kind of discussion, but to set the record straight and blacksplain something ,

Few rappers of note are actual members of the NOI.

Off top, I can only think of
- Kam
- Askari X

And if you know those names, you're probably a member of the lost tribe of israel. (i keed) Ice Cube nor Chuck D were members. Neither is/was Common Sense, and he is from Chicago (where the Nation is headquartered)

There were a lot of rappers that name dropped NOI and Farrakhan TWENTY FIVE YEARS AGO, but for the most part, I think the only person repping now is Jaye Electronica - and he's practically a nobody. He's better known for the Rothschild affair than anything else. Even hip hop heads only know Exhibit C and his "promise"

As for the NGE, nation of gods and earths, FKA the 5% - that entire movement is an off shoot of former NOI member Father Clarence 13X. He's mentioned in TAOMX as the guy who turned away from the light. It's useful to realize that a lot of groups split off from the NOI.

Like the NOI a lot of people found the NGE via prison. Throw in the somewhat related martial arts that came with it - it became a way of survival. And they don't think of the NGE as a religion, but as a science. I know actual engineers and astro-physicists that are also NGE members. It's a lot like Albert Einstein believing in God imo. But it's not more mumbo jumbo than people looking for the golden ratio, or trying to solve a theorem that predicts prime #'s.

Also like the NOI, the NGE is pretty much a small underground group like the Moorish Scientists, Hebrew Israelities and the Nuwabians.

The biggest 5% rappers in recent history have been Wu Tang Clan, but for the most part 5% is on the decline as well. And Wu hasn't been on top of the game since 97.

I think there was one photo of Jay Z rocking some paraphenalia, but he's not a member.

So your claim that the best and brightest rappers are members of the NOI/NGE are demonstrably false. Farrakhan barely gets a shout out in rhymes nowadays. More likely to hear someone be the Black Mark Zuckerberg or something along those lines.

Even rewinding back to the so-called golden age, it's really a handful of guys that were claiming 5%, some of whom have turned back towards Jesus Christ or Sunni Islam.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

For me, these groups represent the perfect example of "rebels without a cause" or, even more accurate, "being different for fun & profit" (i.e. attention whoring). They're no different from David Icke's lizard people, only they are more shielded from criticism due to their racial component.

I don't know much about these Five Percenters, but from what is written about their beliefs on Wikipedia, it doesn't seem much different from Nation of Islam. It's like Jehovah's Witnesses vs. Scientology - two slightly different doomsday cults, just different flavors.

Note that Malcolm X himself was assassinated by this organization after he left it, but after first spending many years spreading its ridiculous beliefs. To use a metaphor again, if you make a living out of fostering crazy, don't be surprised when crazy comes back to haunt you.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

[Deluge]

(10-06-2014 11:02 PM)Kabal Wrote:  

Likely combinations of explanations:

[1] Most "intelligent" people do not use their intelligence for truth-seeking in ascertaining their beliefs, but rather use their intelligence for figuring out what they should believe (or espouse to believe) in order to gain social acceptance and/or gain social status. I would say this is most prevalent on the mid-right side of the bell curve, like IQ 110-130 or so. People dumber than that tend to be too dumb to figure out what status-enhancing beliefs might be, and people smarter than that find any discrepancies between truth and status-enhancing beliefs to be too jarring from a cognitive-dissonance standpoint.

This is how PC beliefs, like sexual and racial egalitarianism, tend to spread, driven by the modal college-educated (above-average in intelligence, but not especially intelligent) crowd.

Never considered this before, but intuitively it makes sense. I know the IQ numbers are pulled randomly, but it's depressing to think that only the top 2.5% of the general population are intelligent enough to see through the bullshit. In reality it might be even fewer. We're lucky we have RVF.

[Mage]

(10-06-2014 11:02 PM)Kabal Wrote:  

Likely combinations of explanations:

[1] Most "intelligent" people do not use their intelligence for truth-seeking in ascertaining their beliefs, but rather use their intelligence for figuring out what they should believe (or espouse to believe) in order to gain social acceptance and/or gain social status. I would say this is most prevalent on the mid-right side of the bell curve, like IQ 110-130 or so. People dumber than that tend to be too dumb to figure out what status-enhancing beliefs might be, and people smarter than that find any discrepancies between truth and status-enhancing beliefs to be too jarring from a cognitive-dissonance standpoint.

This is how PC beliefs, like sexual and racial egalitarianism, tend to spread, driven by the modal college-educated (above-average in intelligence, but not especially intelligent) crowd.

Dude I understood something new but long overdue about life due to your post. Thank you!

It would be interesting to know the average IQ of the readers of this forum. Obviously higher than average but just how high? Sadly it would be useless to ask as self reported numbers are always ... self reported.

[Deluge]

(10-07-2014 04:54 AM)Mage Wrote:  

It would be interesting to know the average IQ of the readers of this forum. Obviously higher than average but just how high? Sadly it would be useless to ask as self reported numbers are always ... self reported.

The larger the size of the membership, the closer we will mirror the general population.

We are probably a little smarter then average though, for 2 reasons:

1. Nerdier guys lacking in social skills are more likely to seek out game help
2. A high % of posters members are banned for being trolls or posting dumb shit.

[TravelerKai]

OGNorCal and WIA nailed it. Those two posts are spot on. Erykah Badu still says things about Louis Farrakhan and MF Doom is still a 5%er last time I checked. It really doesn't matter though because that 5%er thing was mostly a passing phase like OGNorcal said. Almost every rapper that used to drop 5% stuff in their rhymes have long stopped doing that before hiphop even died itself.

[JayMillz]

(10-06-2014 10:16 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

This group is intriguing

I never found much intrigue in these guys or the Black Israelites that you see around Times Square all the time.

[vinman]

It's urban Mormonism. "New religion" started by flimflam men.

[WestIndianArchie]

(10-07-2014 09:39 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

OGNorCal and WIA nailed it. Those two posts are spot on. Erykah Badu still says things about Louis Farrakhan and MF Doom is still a 5%er last time I checked. It really doesn't matter though because that 5%er thing was mostly a passing phase like OGNorcal said. Almost every rapper that used to drop 5% stuff in their rhymes have long stopped doing that before hiphop even died itself.

Doom was always a Nuwabian. The Nuwabians were arguably the biggest secret cult among hip hop mc's in the late 80's to mid 90's.

That's why Zev Love X aka MF Doom moved to ATL. And after their leader was jailed on child molestation charges, you rarely hear him talk about that stuff anymore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_York

Some back ground on Nuwaubian - still it's WIKI don't know how much is right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuwaubian_Nation

i'm sure there's a conspiracy about them, his downfall...which probably includes false flags, black helicopters, and blue cherry quarter waters being laced with anti-fertility drugs to stop the black race.

WIA

[L M McCoy]

delete

[L M McCoy]

(10-07-2014 10:57 AM)JayMillz Wrote:  

(10-06-2014 10:16 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

This group is intriguing

I never found much intrigue in these guys or the Black Israelites that you see around Times Square all the time.

I was going to make a comment about that (now deleted). Had one of those guys try to make me take off my necklace.

[___]

(10-07-2014 12:05 AM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

But ancient religions at least have the force of the ages and huge communities of believers, so it is easy to accept their crazy stories since everyone around you believes them.

A new religion is invented, and people see it plainly as wild stories with no basis in reality invented by some huckster. I wonder if that was the case thousands of years ago. Was the Prophet Muhammard really just some clever huckster trying to get what he could by fooling people?

Even though I'm not an atheist (simply non-religious), I've often wondered this as well.

All the major religions do seem to contain many of the same universal truths, so they're still good to study and apply to a certain degree.

Unrelated: WIA is a true head name dropping Askari X & Kam (step into the 9deuce) - ha.

[TravelerKai]

(10-07-2014 01:37 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(10-07-2014 09:39 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

OGNorCal and WIA nailed it. Those two posts are spot on. Erykah Badu still says things about Louis Farrakhan and MF Doom is still a 5%er last time I checked. It really doesn't matter though because that 5%er thing was mostly a passing phase like OGNorcal said. Almost every rapper that used to drop 5% stuff in their rhymes have long stopped doing that before hiphop even died itself.

Doom was always a Nuwabian. The Nuwabians were arguably the biggest secret cult among hip hop mc's in the late 80's to mid 90's.

That's why Zev Love X aka MF Doom moved to ATL. And after their leader was jailed on child molestation charges, you rarely hear him talk about that stuff anymore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_York

Some back ground on Nuwaubian - still it's WIKI don't know how much is right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuwaubian_Nation

i'm sure there's a conspiracy about them, his downfall...which probably includes false flags, black helicopters, and blue cherry quarter waters being laced with anti-fertility drugs to stop the black race.

WIA

Whoa that is some heavy ass shit right there. I had no idea that element existed and that MF Doom was part of that. I remember him going on the lam for a while in the ATL but I did not know it was because of that. Reading that Wiki was wild. What a mind fuck that stuff is. While it is generally rare to run into black nationalists like that, whenever you find one they blow you away with some of this crazy stuff.

[Parlay44]

Wasn't Michael Jackson a member of the Nation of Islam at one point

[TravelerKai]

(10-07-2014 05:07 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

Wasn't Michael Jackson a member of the Nation of Islam at one point

Back then, who wasn't? At one point you could count on 1 hand the amount of New York Rappers that were not 5% or dropping 5% rhymes. At one point, I felt like not wanting to listen to east coast rappers for a little while because all of them seemed to be muslim converts, and at that time I did not care for those lyrics. As I got older, I understood what all that shit was about and it did not bother me as much. Tastes change fast as a teenager.

[speakeasy]

(10-07-2014 05:07 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

Wasn't Michael Jackson a member of the Nation of Islam at one point

No, he had hired some as body guards. As an aside, some sources close to Michael say he was anti-semetic.

[WestIndianArchie]

(10-07-2014 05:07 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

Wasn't Michael Jackson a member of the Nation of Islam at one point

He was an honorary member because of people hounding him about child molestation charges.

But given the sort of things that Farrakhan has said, and the weird relationship with Scientology.... might have been two peas in a pod.

WIA