[TheBulldozer]

This forum is filled with men living their dreams. I've met many of them, and I'd like to think that as I'm pushing into that echelon. Sometimes, and more commonly on the RVF that includes expatriating from your country of birth. Some of us do it for the money, some for the dissatisfaction of their lives at home, others for the pure adventure - no different than any other adventurous man who has walked the earth. One thing that is in the fabric of every man is the itch to explore - to see the unknown, to conquer the unexpected.

But.

It's hard.

It's hard to give up your easy, simple life in search of the unknown. I was offered a really fascinating position to work abroad. The money, experience, and opportunity were all what I was looking for. I jumped at it.

As my days waned here in New York, I began to realize the complexity of my decision. To say goodbye to your family, your friends, the things you've worked so hard to set up with your own blood, sweat and tears. I began to realize it was more difficult than putting on my 'fearless face' and saying I'll be back soon.

The truth is, I have a golden life here in New York, no doubt about it. To give it up means to say goodbye to your mother and father, a best friend you've known your entire life, the beautiful girlfriends that have come and gone, the familiarity and comfort of everyday life.

It was hard - harder than I imagined, but I've done it. I'm going to live in a completely new place, create a new network of friends, grab a bunch of money and push myself to do things I didn't think I could do, but all I can think about right now is what I gave up to make this decision.

I'm curious from those who have done something like this what your feelings were and how you dealt with them. I'm not feeling down or depressed, because I know I'm going to kick the shit out of life no matter where I go or what I do, but I'm curious as to your feelings when packing life away in search of something new.

We spend great amounts of time discussing the conquests and adventures abroad, but let's be real for a minute. We're only human and it's hard to detach from people you've become so closely attached to.

[renotime]

It's even harder to come back.

[JustJay]

Where ever you're going abroad check up on the Travel forums for exciting opportunity with the local ladies, etc.

Find everything that you can that's positive about where your next destination is. Make a list of it and be sure to frequent it often. Consider it some sort of affirmation of what to look forward to. Look forward to the future and always remember you have a home to go back to in case things don't work out.

There will always be some form of anxiety when going into the unknown. It's so easy to stick with what's comfortable, what's working. But always ask yourself "Will I be satisfied with this?"

As far as detaching....for me it wasn't that bad because I didn't have a whole lot of people to detach from. I wanted to see the world for what it was, not by what the TV told me. So that passion alone pushed me past any worries about what I was leaving behind. I will always be able to find a way to get back to those who have cared about me.

I wish you well man. Hopefully your next adventure will bare many stories about the latest chapter in your life.

[Onto]

I'm kinda having the same kind of turmoil too. I leave in September. In my case, I'm quitting a well-paying, but completely unsatisfying gig to travel for 7 months with no income coming in. Deciding what to sell and what to keep at my parents house. Will I wish I sold everything when I had the chance? Will I wish I held onto things I sold? Will I be able to get another job easily when I come back? Will I have enough money when I come back?

I don't know the answers of how it all will turn out, but I know how it will be if I don't go. The same as it is now, and if I were truly happy with that I wouldn't have been longing to leave in the first place….and time in general is running out fast…..at least the part that counts most.

[Icarus]

"The expatriate mentality is a tough thing to explain easily. Any affluent or even middle-class American who renounces the good life of sushi delivery and 50-channel cable television to relocate permanently to some third-world hole usually has to be motivated by a highly destructive personality defect. Either that, or something about home creates psychological demons that in turn create the urge for radical escape.

I’d moved overseas straight out of college and been a classic expatriate ever since. I had all the symptoms: periodic unsuccessful attempts to repatriate, a tendency to try to make grandiose foreign adventures compensate for a total inability to accumulate money; bad teeth; unhealthy personal relationships, etc. I’d been aware for years that my passion for uprooting and completely changing my lifestyle and even my career was like a drug addiction – not only did I get off on it, but I needed to do it fairly regularly just to keep from getting the shakes."

– Matt Taibbi


Taibbi played basketball in Uzbekistan and Mongolia and worked for the infamous The eXile in Moscow in the 1990s. I wonder what personality defects or demons haunted him.

[Yeti]

Understand:

Humanity surrounds you everywhere. I used to be terrified, in my early 20s, of ending up alone in some city, having done nothing, a life without meaning, knowing no one... Being a ghost. I essentially feared no longer being young and capable.

But... no matter your age or location, there's a way to be happy. Sure, some places are better than others - go abroad! America is damaged beyond recognition from even 20 years ago. But you feel better about leaving people behind when you have experience in your bones that tells you that friends and happiness are to be found anywhere. You can build a new life for yourself very quickly if you make the effort.

[Bushido]

There are several issues with being an expat that are overlooked on here:

1. Family

I have only made it back to the UK twice in 5 years due to lack of paid leave (go Asia!). Skype helps, as does inviting them over to see you instead. That said, you can't allow yourself to miss your family or you aren't going to make it abroad.

2. Discrimination

Locals will outmaneuver you in business deals, occasionally refuse to talk to you, hire their own for jobs and promote fellow locals over you. This is an undeniable fact.

Positive discrimination doesn't exist outside of the West. As a foreigner for the first time, you finally begin to understand how real discrimination actually works. I have lot more empathy now for minorities back home. The challenge is to get over the reality of discrimination, make yourself into a machine and not sink into the expat bubble.

3. Money

You may or may not make it big abroad. Unless you have some crazy inside connections, chances are that the first year or two will be challenging financially. Or at least worse than had you stayed home. Meanwhile all your friends back home are getting promotions. You begin to wonder if you should have left or not. In the beginning it is all roses, but doubting your decision to leave is a constant issue after a few years.

This forum tends to paint a rosy picture of life abroad. Look at some expat forums before you go just for laughs. There are a lot of bitter expats out there and you don't want to imitate 90% of them.

[rudebwoy]

To move overseas takes balls, which most men don't have. This is the only way you will grow as a man, by taking a chance in life. Sure it can be hell, the first few years are the toughest and usually most people quit and run home.
I have done it and came back and regret it every day, once you return you can never be the same. I always compare things, for better or worst. The worst part you can guess is the women, they are gross in so many ways besides looks.
Foreign women know there place in society, they are more appreciative of the little things.
I don't think it is all about the money, it is about the life experience. Personally, I felt I got more respect overseas and worked in jobs that would be almost impossible to get at home.
I envy guys like Roosh and others who can travel non-stop around Europe, Asia and Latin America.

[Jaydublin]

Personally I dont find it that hard but I am a cold person. I joined the miitary at 18 and at age 20 I was sent to Europe for a 3 year tour.... I didnt come home for the first 14 months in Europe, my own choice. Since getting out of the military in 2010 I spent about 1 year at home and the rest has been away, some in the USA and some abroad.

Everyone is different and while I miss the backroads where I am from, I also love being abroad living an adventure. I think everyone should take some time away from work and school and get some traveling experience. You ma miss out on money right now but down the road it will pay dividends and completely change your outlook.

[Tully Mars]

Great Thread....going on my 3rd year working/living in Colombia...been home once...with an occasional visit to see friends in Florida....nothing more than a week at a time....I enjoy the visits, but realize I don't fit in anymore in the USA.

I realize at my age (late 30's) that my friends and family back home have settled into a rather normal U.S. existence....kids, Divorces, wknd shopping at suburban strip malls, sporting events to give the men things to talk about, fat/loud and unfashionable women at every turn, and of course sex starved men getting hammered at the bars and catering to bitchy women so they may have a chance to fuck something other than their hands.

All and all I find that type of life to be a living hell.....I think I am also different since I have no desire for a big home, the next fancy automobile, or the 70 inch plasma tv.....all those things are traps....and financial handcuffs to your freedom. It's a shock to me, that more people living in the USA don't see this....

I would not be human if I said I do not miss my family and friends at times.....but I know there is no way I could have the lifestyle I have now living abroad that I would if I moved back to the USA.

So just remember in your moments of sadness, or loneliness living abroad.....remember it is just a passing feeling....the true sadness would be waking up everyday feeling trapped in a horrible plastic existence that unfortunately I see getting worse in the USA.

I thank my lucky stars I was able to get out!!!!

[Vaun]

I had my 'moneyball' moment a few years ago. The best opportunity I've ever been offered. The guy that took it is a superstar now. I cant dwell on it though, my life is here, for now.

[weambulance]

My family is close, but I'm okay just talking to them on the phone frequently rather than being there in person. Where I am now I might as well be on the moon, 4000 miles from my family although I'm still in the US. When life is stressful I talk to my family a lot. When not much is going on I might call once every 2 weeks or so.

Military lifestyle got me comfortable with pulling up stakes and leave everything behind. Everything is transitory. Right now I'm planning another big move in the next month, back to where my family lives actually because I hate it where I am now, and that's a good first step in permanently relocating somewhere else. My plans aren't set in stone but I hope to be self employed and living at least 11 months out of the year somewhere other than the US within 5 years.

It helps a lot that I'm very much an introvert. I am extremely comfortable in my own company and I don't worry too much about social expectations. Right now I'm technically homeless (living out of my truck) in a city where I have no friends and no safety net, and I'm completely okay with the situation.

But you're right, it's hard and it can be scary to make such radical lifestyle changes. I sometimes feel like I should take the safe option, just stay here, finish my degree, and get a job making $90k+. But I wouldn't be happy doing that because that means sacrificing the opportunities to do all the things I really want to do. Even if I just did it for two years, I worry I would get stuck in a rut and never start down the path to what I really want if I don't leave now.

[Rubio93]

Been six years here in Colombia, also left NYC to come here.

No regrets at all, aside from the fact that I have to Skype with my kids, but I can afford to go see them several times a year at least. That was the only tough part of making the decision to leave the country, but ultimately I told myself I'd rather be physically distant from my kids than have them watch me turn into some pathetic broke beat down person like happens to everybody else up there these days....

I've had to bust ass here, but I've been doing that my whole life, no big thing. I'm a professional musician and opportunities here are growing every year whereas in the US they're rapidly dwindling...

To be perfectly frank, and YMMW BUT... I have an easier time pulling in the US than I do here (not that I don't do very well here). BUT... the QUALITY here is much better. And I'm here for the music first and foremost, everything else is secondary.

I haven't really experienced culture shock the way many expats do, for more than one reason I think. First off, Colombian culture is still Western culture, it's really not that different from North America. The other reason is that I never really have felt at home in ANY culture, including my own; I've always been quite a maverick, so this is just one other place where I only halfway fit in.

I'm enjoying the low cost of living, the fact that I can afford to rent a whole bigass corner house centrally located in a big city, the nightlife here is really off the chain IF you know where to go and when especially, great cheap fresh meat and produce, I can ride a motorcycle 365 days a year here and it's DIRT CHEAP to do so, and in general Colombians tend to be pretty awesome people by world standards. I've actually found in the course of all my travels that Colombians Brazilians and AMERICANS believe it or not, are my favorite people on the planet.

What I don't like is how everybody in Colombia seems to be a morning person (I turn my phone etc. off when I go to sleep and turn it back on when I wake up otherwise the phone wakes me up EVERY MORNING), food is great but people don't know how to cook it properly (NO PLANTAINS IN SOUP PLEASE!) traffic here really is murder, and i can forget about buying any clothes off the rack EVER! But these are pretty minor complaints.... in the end I'm happier now than I ever have been before in my life...

[stefpdt]

Whenever given two options in life: always choose the bolder, more difficult, more rewarding option.

Think about Roosh. He has to live his life not giving a fuck about much else besides his own desires. That's the way to live. Not to mention he probably earns six figures and is basically the leading voice of the manosphere. He earned it.

Leaving family and friends is hard. But you HAVE to live for yourself.

[tomtud]

For me leaving there were a few reasons. How I dealt with family and friends is that I chose to not contact them. Seeing my friends partying or hearing about them going out bothered me a lot in the first few months. Living in Qatar was tough but with time you find your fun. Make friends, find spots to go out on weekends etc. Now living in colombia, I still choose to not contact my friends regularly, their lives go on. Yes when I visit we all go out, but they are busy too.

Nightlife: I hate going out alone, especially in colombia where it's social circle game and no mingling really. I miss my boys who I went out with. It takes time to meet friends with whom you can go out. You won't meet anybody staying in your apartment so, I still go out alone at times.

I have no desire to come back today. Maybe in the future, it's always good to have that "insurance".

I believe it will only get better. Your first year you don't know snybody or anything. After your 2nd year you start yo save or even make more money. From many jobs this holds true. More friends etc always helps.

[Orson]

I know this thread is supposed to be about the things not talked about. But I have to mention the declining US - declining privacy, first of all. Declining media freedom, ranked 46th or 47th by a well-known French group, and falling. And declining economic freedom, ranked 18th and falling (and there are various groups following this). Declining political freedom,

I don't see it getting better soon - and if it does, for a variety of reasons, it won't last long.* American's have always sought and treasured their freedom. Thomas Paine was a Brit who was quintessentially restless and therefore American by nature. Although he wanted to be buried in the US, his remains got lost.

Unlike most people here, I had the chance to become a foreigner when I was but 20. All I had to do was marry my Dutch girlfriend. I chose not to, preferring the loudness of American culture.

Now I may soon leave America once more. I will need expat connections abroad; I am too American not to maintain them. For example, the Dutch have now been hit with a murderous horror in Ukraine greater than 9/11 in the US (in proportional terms). How will they bear this tragedy?

We all have our reasons for going abroad. I know that I bring my "Americaness" with me, just as others like Paine and Hemingway did. It cannot and will not be denied. But I will build bridges of understanding, and put down roots on foreign lands. This will be my legacy.

It could be yours, too.

*Geographer Joel Kotkin makes the contrary case, here.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

It depends on what kind of life you have back home. You seem to have a lot of attachments to it, so naturally it's very hard for you to be separated. For me, I don't think it would be so difficult. I'd just talk to 3-4 friends and family members on Skype and that would be it.

[Beyond Borders]

It's threads like this that remind me what an interesting group of guys we've got here.

I mean, we're really out there doing this shit - NOT just keyboard jockeying about it. Fuckin' A.

Get on Skype once a week can call home. And every once in a while, when you start having doubts, ask yourself, "How much time would I really spend with my family if I was there?"

For most Americans, the reality is not very much. And being apart for so long makes your connection that much stronger when you do get together.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

It's always daunting, when making that first step.

Especially travelling alone can be quite lonely at times.

It helps if you can Skype with family and friends or you can meet up with them around the world often. That however depends on the budget you have available.

I personally like to make friends quickly in a new region integrating myself in the community. Within the Red Pill crowd it is fun to meet guys you have a lot in common with - meeting RVF members whenever you hit a new town.

Also I am part of a small religion very few people belong to in the world, so meeting those few up in a country or city is quite easy to do. That instantly connects me to the local culture.

Even the wealthy Jet-Set do it in a similar fashion by going to places where they actually meet their own again and again. The common factor for them is their financial status.

There are many other such tricks you can use to integrate yourself. Home is wherever you are. Most people are just creatures of habit and cannot shake off their initial programming. And frankly that kind of lifestyle is not for everyone.

[Sp5]

(07-22-2014 08:16 PM)Icarus Wrote:  

"The expatriate mentality is a tough thing to explain easily. Any affluent or even middle-class American who renounces the good life of sushi delivery and 50-channel cable television to relocate permanently to some third-world hole usually has to be motivated by a highly destructive personality defect. Either that, or something about home creates psychological demons that in turn create the urge for radical escape.

I’d moved overseas straight out of college and been a classic expatriate ever since. I had all the symptoms: periodic unsuccessful attempts to repatriate, a tendency to try to make grandiose foreign adventures compensate for a total inability to accumulate money; bad teeth; unhealthy personal relationships, etc. I’d been aware for years that my passion for uprooting and completely changing my lifestyle and even my career was like a drug addiction – not only did I get off on it, but I needed to do it fairly regularly just to keep from getting the shakes."

– Matt Taibbi


Taibbi played basketball in Uzbekistan and Mongolia and worked for the infamous The eXile in Moscow in the 1990s. I wonder what personality defects or demons haunted him.

Taibbi is a classic rebel, I'd guess that the part he wrote about being home - and conforming to an expected career - created demons for him. He and Glenn Greenwald are the two top truth-tellers about the reality of the USA nowadays - Taibbi's book Griftopia is an eye-opener on oligarchic control of government and markets.

Like Jaydublin and weambulance, I became accustomed to being away and moving at 18 though the military, which sent me to Europe. When my end of enlistment was approaching, I applied to be discharged in Europe and lived in Europe for six months on $2200 in savings. I liked it and ended up going back into the military, which gave me a lot of opportunities to travel over 25 years active and reserve.

My current expatriation is mostly the result of a divorce rather than a conscious choice. So far it's working out ok, the novelty and freedom keep me engaged. I always have to think about the alternative of being with family, but the reality is that you're alone in this world anyways.

[Roosh]

Expatriation is one of the hardest things you can do, and should come from within instead of inspiration from reading blogs/forums. I did it before I knew what I was getting into and without familiarizing myself with the benefits/cons from online reading. The self-doubt was quite minimal. But if the motivation for your expatriation is coming from the forum, you shouldn't do it. Essentially you should answer yes to the following question: "If the internet didn't exist, would expatriation still be in me?" If not, experiment with long trips instead.

Also, it's unlikely your first month abroad will validate your decision. Don't bang a pretty girl abroad and afterwards try to convince yourself, "I made the right decision!" You'll never be able to say you made the right or wrong decision, and they will tend to equalize anyway (see http://www.rooshv.com/all-experience-is-equal ). Just live each day to the best of your ability and seek new adventures, pleasures, and situations that challenge yourself and make you the man you want to be.

[Chaos]

One of the worst things about being home is that it feels like I'm missing out on something every day. There are so many things going on out in the world and so much to experience.

I'm currently on a trip which destination and duration is unknown. I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking for and I don't know where it will take me or what it will end up with, but I'm enjoying the ride many times more than living a boring predictable life at home.

I'm not close with my family and I've drifted away from my old friends. The only thing that attaches me to home is some businesses and a house. It's just a matter of time before I need to make a decision about what to do with it.

I'm enjoying to be on a quest of the unknown.

[Sp5]

I used to travel "space available" on military flights while on leave. I'd show up at an Air Force base and sign up for all destinations. In those days, there were half a million American troops in Europe holding the line against the USSR. Thousands of nuclear artillery shells ready to go, armored patrols on the inner-German border, and constant air defense alerts. Good times.

The first flight that had a seat, I'd take it. Usually C-130s. One time, I got a flight to Torrejon AB outside of Madrid. I was 19.

When I got off the plane and got off base, I saw Madrid down off the plateau and I realized that there was no high like encountering a big foreign city with time and a modest amount of money in your pocket. Traveling alone never bothered me, I preferred it.

[DaveR]

It depends on what you mean by being an 'expat.'

1. The first few months in any place will likely give you a buzz - every minor thing, even buying milk, will be an experience. I would call this the 'tourist' phase. It's possible to continuously relocate every few months and remain a tourist indefinitely, but to me it would become difficult later in life. At this stage, one will likely not have any strong friendships, but many casual acquaintances.

2. Others, who I would call expats, often live/work for a few years in each place, usually hang around with other expats, don't really integrate but do gain some understanding of the local customs. A lot of corporate men, students, and itinerant English teachers fit into this category. In many places, there is a strong community of these kinds of expats who stick together.

3. What is really difficult is to give up your own culture and integrate into another, stop speaking your native language, and build roots locally. Not many are able to do this successfully, and they are usually the ones who felt like foreigners in their own countries to begin with.


The first two categories are somewhat easier to achieve, with one large caveat: at the end, you will have nothing to show for it other than the financial aspects.

[nomadicdude]

OP: "It's hard to give up your easy, simple life in search of the unknown."

I wonder how many people in the USA really have an easy or simply life anymore compared to life abroad. It is not easy to even be middle class in America anymore with the inaccessibility of affordable education or job stability.

And it is not like living in a third world country is as hard as it was just 10-20 years ago. You can live as an expat in many developing countries with all the food and things you possibly would need for a fraction of the price of the USA.

So if anything I feel like a lot of guys move abroad because they realize life in America is not high quality and never will be unless you become a multi millionaire. Why put up with all the insecurity and financial stress of America when you can live a 10 times better live in South America, EE or Asia for much less and have hotter more feminine women around you?

For American guys who wake up from the brainwashing that we all go through growing up in America, the choice to live abroad is not a difficult one. I know that once I experienced going abroad I realized how much living outside the US long term would enhance my life and it became a no brainier.