[Ferro]

I was just put on a heavy prescription and can't drink any alcohol for the foreseeable future. This won't be a problem for going out alone, as I usually just buy soda water, but this will be a problem on dates. I usually escalate to the kiss at a dark cocktail bar after a venue or two, and then depending on the vibe ask them back to my place for "drinks and youtube."

The problem is that the non-alcoholic alternatives to these cocktail bars for escalation are the bum-infested city parks. It can be done at the parks, but it hurts my success rate. I was wondering what has worked well for you guys and what do you think would be the best way to approach this issue?

1. Complete breakaway from alcoholic venues (sticking with coffee shops, frozen yogurt shops, walks, parks, and fun physical venues) and then just inviting them back to my place for youtube or a movie (maybe offer them a drink, but say I can't?).

2. Business as usual: explain to them I can't drink, but still take them to the nice alcoholic venues and then just order virgin cocktails.

Also I was wondering should I actually reveal I'm on a heavy drug or just be vague and say steroids (found this line on RVF when you aren't drinking on night out)?

When I invite them back I will probably just omit the drinks and stick with youtube, movie, or some cool thing I have at my apt.

I know certain girls have gotten really pissed at me when I wouldn't attempt to "keep up" with them while drinking. One in particular would only have sex after 10+ drinks.

[Windom Earle]

(06-14-2014 01:57 AM)Ferro Wrote:  

2. Business as usual: explain to them I can't drink, but still take them to the nice alcoholic venues and then just order virgin cocktails.

2 - but don't explain to them you can't drink. If you're not drinking, chances are they will feel awkward doing so, and will make it difficult (but not impossible) to escalate. You obviously want everything in your power going your way. Being in a venue conducive to escalation will be your best bet, not some coffee shop.

The trick here, which is what I employ, is buy a non-alcoholic drink which resembles an alcoholic drink.

If you buy a coke, she won't even likely question it being non-alcoholic. She'll just assume it has bourbon or scotch in it, or whatever.

Same for something soda based. It'll look like vodka and soda. Have a lime put in for authenticity.

Make sure you get the bartender to put it in a lowball glass too.

The only tricky thing with this arrangement is that you'll be the one buying all the drinks, if you don't want to blow your cover.

[cooledcannon]

Ive heard a good solution is to pretend you are a recovering alcoholic or something like that, and cant control his alcohol. Then instead of being mocked for not drinking, you will instead be praised and thought of a better person for having self control over addiction.

[Christian McQueen]

Reason #12,891 to have certain bars and clubs On Lock.

Here's what you do if you want to be smooth:

-Get a bar/lounge close to your house On Lock. Find out who the main bartenders are, tip them and explain that you can't drink, so have them fake pour for you and alcohol for the girls. Visit the local spots close to you by yourself first, go on a off night and explain the arrangement. When you bring a date, they'll give you a knowing wink and you're set.

I had this arrangement in college because I was going out a lot, so I needed a break, but still wanted to take girls out.

The bartenders didn't give a fuck because the money I would spend on alcohol was going in their pocket to play along with the trick.

I also always have a bottle of 'Vodka' which is water that I'll use for shots at home, while the girl will be drinking actual alcohol. It keeps me in control.

[XXL]

I know it's quite corny what I will tell you but I recommend you trying it a couple of times to see where it will take you. OK basically 1) you gotta do what YOU want to do, not what you think might work with a random girl, and 2) be upfront about it from the get go. Then the girl gets horny cause she's feeling that 100% congruency.

In practice you can either breakaway from alcoholic venues and have fun somewhere else or take them to the nice alcoholic venues and then just order virgin cocktails. It found that it's non issue at all AS LONG AS girls know about your sobriety for the get go AND they enjoy your company. That's the key here. Tell girls before the date that you're not drinking at all these days without giving a flying fuck that it might hurt your chances. When they ask about it tell them whatever you feel will make more sense to them so that they can relate or maybe understand it somehow. Can be heavy drug or steroids. It's your call. But the gist is being totally transparent.

My first guess is that certain girls have gotten really pissed at you when you wouldn't attempt to "keep up" with them while drinking cause they didn't know why you couldn't drink.

If a girl told me that she'd only have sex after 10+ drinks I'd tell her with breaking rapport tone... "OK then call one of your nice guys who's secretly in love with you and lead him on to buy you those 10 drinks and then call me when you're finished and horny. Or you know what? actually forget it, after all you'll be too drunk then to choose my number in your phone to say nothing of sleeping together that night. so I'm good". Spoiled brats like these need to hear shit like that.

[soup]

McQueen- do you not pour in front of the girls at your place?

I've been trying to figure out a way to pour fake whiskey for me while giving them the real stuff. I think this would help me keep my game tighter.

Also, do you pay the bartender the actual price of the fake drink? They must love that. I'd have to get in really good with some if the ones around here.. I think there would be probably be a lot white knights..

[JohnKreese]

(06-14-2014 07:54 AM)soup Wrote:  

McQueen- do you not pour in front of the girls at your place?

I've been trying to figure out a way to pour fake whiskey for me while giving them the real stuff. I think this would help me keep my game tighter.

Also, do you pay the bartender the actual price of the fake drink? They must love that. I'd have to get in really good with some if the ones around here.. I think there would be probably be a lot white knights..

You could have a couple of lower shelf bottles filled with water or other non-alcoholic substances that you drink out of while giving her the actual higher shelf stuff. Not only will you be able to stab sober, but she'll think you're going out of her way to give her the shit you save for guests.

[Teddykgb]

I would always have a fridge full of Angry Orchard Hard Cider. I would refill a few of the used ones with water and then just pop the cap back on. You could never tell the difference. Just make sure you remember which ones are real and which ones aren't.

I once had a girl run over to the fridge to grab two more beers and she grabbed a fake one for herself and I had to jump up and make up some excuse why I wanted to save her beer for another time. I was shitting my pants for a second.


I would never have the balls to ask the bartenders around where I live to pour me fake drinks. I feel like it could be a disaster if they decide to say no or are some sort of white knight.

[Sonsowey]

Some non alcoholic dates that have worked for me.

A park during the day. Not a playground, somewhere in nature where you can explore, get a little dirty, get out of your comfort zone, find a secluded spot...

Waterfront or beach boardwalk.

Just walking aroound a cool spot f your city during the day. Stop into a music store, stop into a cafe, mad venue changes let you build up familiarity.

Concerts, art shows, comedy.

Just whatever you do, make sure you actually enjoy it. She is just along with you for a fun day of you doing your thing.

I have taught girls guitar in a guitar shop on a date... because I play. Maybe you could teach her soccer or whatever if thats your thing.

[soup]

(06-14-2014 08:05 AM)JohnKreese Wrote:  

(06-14-2014 07:54 AM)soup Wrote:  

McQueen- do you not pour in front of the girls at your place?

I've been trying to figure out a way to pour fake whiskey for me while giving them the real stuff. I think this would help me keep my game tighter.

Also, do you pay the bartender the actual price of the fake drink? They must love that. I'd have to get in really good with some if the ones around here.. I think there would be probably be a lot white knights..

You could have a couple of lower shelf bottles filled with water or other non-alcoholic substances that you drink out of while giving her the actual higher shelf stuff. Not only will you be able to stab sober, but she'll think you're going out of her way to give her the shit you save for guests.

Yes, but I think there's a trust thing when you are bringing chicks back to your house for the first time.. chicks you might have met 45 min ago. I always pour in front of them so they know that I'm not poisoning them.

Maybe I'm wrong though. Maybe the fact they come back with me is enough for them to trust me..

[WestIndianArchie]

I got a lot to say on this topic, one i've broached before.

But to tweak your current routine

1) At the cocktail bar - you're new favorite drink looks exactly like Vodka and Tonic with Lime.

2) The bait to get back to your place?
Take the emphasis off of the alcohol

"I got Moscato back at the crib"
"I got this awesome thing back at the crib. Alcohol too"

3) She asks why you aren't drinking alcohol

- keep your frame strong - i.e. control the direction of the conversation, dictate the pace and the topic

Ad Feminem - "oh somebody's being Miss Bossy"
Mysterioso - "That's a long story"
Qualificado - "That's a long story, and I'm not sure where "we" are"
Ignore and change subject - "My money's on Colombia to take the Cup"

Et cetera.

I didn't drink till 2012, and banged all manner of never had a drop in their lives religious chicks, to raging blackout drunks.

Don't let *your* mind stop you from fucking.
Cause it's certainly not her that's going to rule you out.

These god damn alcoholics have brought wine to my crib for later, so they can have a few glasses before we get down to business. Weed smokers are the worst.

I actually like the taste of a little merlot on a chick's breath truthbetold.

If a chick wants to challenge you to a drink off, dead that shit. She's not on your level in any way, shape, or form. Don't ever stoop down to her level and compete with her.

I'll be the first one to tell you that women are sharp, that they are intelligent, that they have their own motivations and desires. Only the fool treats a woman like he'd treat a child. But just because she's a formidable adversary doesn't mean you need to engage her in her shenanigans.

The game is primarily played at the mental level.

Once you've got a chick out on a date, assume she's physically attracted.
Your only aim is to get her aroused and make the transition from public space to private place as smooth as possible.

Her logical/conscious forebrain might not want to fuck you, but her hindbrain does. Your job, alcohol or not, is get her to listen to her better self.

WIA

[soup]

(06-14-2014 12:37 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

I got a lot to say on this topic, one i've broached before.

But to tweak your current routine

1) At the cocktail bar - you're new favorite drink looks exactly like Vodka and Tonic with Lime.

2) The bait to get back to your place?
Take the emphasis off of the alcohol

"I got Moscato back at the crib"
"I got this awesome thing back at the crib. Alcohol too"

3) She asks why you aren't drinking alcohol

- keep your frame strong - i.e. control the direction of the conversation, dictate the pace and the topic

Ad Feminem - "oh somebody's being Miss Bossy"
Mysterioso - "That's a long story"
Qualificado - "That's a long story, and I'm not sure where "we" are"
Ignore and change subject - "My money's on Colombia to take the Cup"

Et cetera.

I didn't drink till 2012, and banged all manner of never had a drop in their lives religious chicks, to raging blackout drunks.

Don't let *your* mind stop you from fucking.
Cause it's certainly not her that's going to rule you out.

These god damn alcoholics have brought wine to my crib for later, so they can have a few glasses before we get down to business. Weed smokers are the worst.

I actually like the taste of a little merlot on a chick's breath truthbetold.

If a chick wants to challenge you to a drink off, dead that shit. She's not on your level in any way, shape, or form. Don't ever stoop down to her level and compete with her.

I'll be the first one to tell you that women are sharp, that they are intelligent, that they have their own motivations and desires. Only the fool treats a woman like he'd treat a child. But just because she's a formidable adversary doesn't mean you need to engage her in her shenanigans.

The game is primarily played at the mental level.

Once you've got a chick out on a date, assume she's physically attracted.
Your only aim is to get her aroused and make the transition from public space to private place as smooth as possible.

Her logical/conscious forebrain might not want to fuck you, but her hindbrain does. Your job, alcohol or not, is get her to listen to her better self.

WIA

Dropping bombs here, WIA.

We can add this to the First-Date-Bang Recipe.. as a means of creating more plausible deniability. Think of things other than sex related that can get her back to the house. Booze is sex related.

Get her back to for some other reason, and then just pour some booze without asking her and give her the glass.

[Tresdus]

edit

[Days of Broken Arrows]

(06-14-2014 02:41 AM)cooledcannon Wrote:  

Ive heard a good solution is to pretend you are a recovering alcoholic or something like that, and cant control his alcohol. Then instead of being mocked for not drinking, you will instead be praised and thought of a better person for having self control over addiction.

I totally agree with this. Here is why (and get ready for some sobering -- ahem -- advice).

I grew up with a chronic illness and spent the early part of my life on meds. People have little sympathy or understanding for boys or men about this. The reason is that it signals you have bad genetics and humans are programmed to weed out those with crappy genetics since we're only here to reproduce. This, IMO, is why we instinctively wince at the disfigured and mentally ill. It's our genetic programming telling us "Stay away!! Damaged goods!!"

But overcoming an addiction signals a sort of strength. Why? Because it says "My body was so tough it could take being abused by alcohol/heroin/whatever and I'm still going strong." Men give you fist-bumps and women get turned on, with the caretaker types and bleeding hearts sometimes offering "sympathy fucks."

That said, there is a subset of people who avoid alcoholics, for obvious reasons.

Here is how you can have the best of both worlds. Instead of saying "My name is Ferro and I'm an alcoholic," you might instead say you were a heavy drinker and alcohol stopped agreeing with you. When they ask "Were you an alcoholic" you can reply "I was on my way" or "I was close."

Hope this helps.

[Valhalla]

Is it really that difficult to bang women without alcohol?

I do it all the time.

[soup]

I think the key is to not have the issue come up.

You don't want to have a bump in the road that breaks the vibe.

Game is all about directing a vibe.. it's like directing a movie.

You can't have the scene break and some shit happen that takes you out of the experience. The momentum needs to be constant.

The also goes for kino escalation- you have to make sure that both you and the girl are reading from the same page of the script.

I'd try to figure out dates that don't involve booze.. or pick some other harmless ice breaker. Maybe smoke a little weed with them or whatever.

[party1981]

You can order club soda with lime, which I often drink anyway. It looks just like an alcohol drink.

If they do ask you the question (many won't), the secret is to not be defensive. I would just honest and say "I'm not a big drinker," "I'm taking it slow," or "I'm really strict about drinking and driving." If your medical condition is not embarrassing, you can just be honest and tell her about the medication/condition.

The secret, in all of this, is to act like it's not a big deal or that there's anything wrong at all. If she even hints that you're acting weird, your attitude should be "she's weird for thinking it's weird."

Drinking is a pretty heavy part of hookup/online dating culture for short term bangs. But it's all in your mind, and if you believe they will come.

[Ferro]

Thanks guys for the wide range of ideas. Concerning the stealthy switcheroo ideas, while elaborate (and thus prone to failure), I could still see that working on one night stands if you had the venue on "lockdown" and were good at misdirection while pouring at home, but for girls you want to see more than once that level of deception seems like it would just end up being harmful and a headache.

I prefer the XXL and WIA approaches of being open and honest, and just letting my strong masculine frame crush through any of her objections or societal drinking customs. I will probably try experimenting with the alcoholic venues by letting them know how it is before or when we get there, in order to see where the limits are. Otherwise if that doesn't pan out I will just aim for the two date bang schedule of coffee then park escalation on 1st date, and then something fun then dinner and a movie at my place for the 2nd (that has worked for me before). Of course I will calibrate for the odd girl that will let me finger her in the park and take her back.

(On a side note, I just love this forum's popular use of Lockdown as the solution to all of game's problems. ie. My date just took me to her boyfriend's place to fuck, how to handle it? "First, is the place locked down?" or How many girls can I finger in a park simultaneously? "The number is directly proportional to the level of locked-down-ness of the park." One of you guys needs to come out with a book covering all of this, and obviously title it "Lockdown.")

[Tresdus]

edit

[Thug Muffin]

I don't drink much and I try to set up all my dates where there is no drinking involved. Takes me 3 dates to get the bang though so I like to keep each date under $30.

1st - I say "we can grab a tea at X then head over right around the corner to this great place for a dessert. " This dessert place is awesome and girls seriously go apeshit when I mention it. It's dark like a bar and has a counter set up so I can sit right next to them if I wanted to.

2nd - Few options here.
Mexican Cantina with fantastic tacos. Each taco is huge and costs $4.50.
Farmers market or some type of festival going on

3rd. The zoo. I bought a season pass for $130 for the year that allows me to take 1 guest. I take all my dates there and then back to my house for dinner and hopefully sex. I'll sometimes just have this as the second date and then the 3rd is just dinner at my place.

If my date game was better I think I could probably just do the zoo followed by dinner at my place.

[Charlemagne In Sweatpants]

I love threads like these, since they always seem to pop up when I'm thinking about falling off the wagon to see if it makes dating "easier." There's some good advice here.

I've had some recent success with the following...

Girl: "Wait, you're not drinking?"
Charlie: "Nope."
Girl: "That's a little weird. Why?"
Charlie: "It's a long story, but don't worry, there are still plenty of ways for you to entice me without booze."
Girl: "Oh yeah, and what's that?"
Charlie: "I'd recommend starting with a sundress and cleavage, but it looks like you've already got that covered." [I always insist that a girl wears a sundress on a first date during Sundress Season]

[Christian McQueen]

(06-14-2014 07:54 AM)soup Wrote:  

McQueen- do you not pour in front of the girls at your place?

I've been trying to figure out a way to pour fake whiskey for me while giving them the real stuff. I think this would help me keep my game tighter.

Also, do you pay the bartender the actual price of the fake drink? They must love that. I'd have to get in really good with some if the ones around here.. I think there would be probably be a lot white knights..

Usually they grab a seat on the sofa and I make a couple drinks at my bar. I've yet to have a girl inspect my bottles.

I'll slip the bartender (s) a $20 when I roll in solo and explain the situation, then when I bring a girl in, they know that I tip well anyway, and they just charge me for her drinks, but they know that I tip like 50% usually, so it works out for them, but it's still cheaper for me overall. It's not about the money for me, but about saving my liver. I'm taking periods of sobriety here and there now for fitness and other goals.

[soup]

McQueen- the twenty is for a new bartender that you don't already know, or do you do that Everytime?

Fuck- man, I'm worried about my liver too. My line if work has me out around free booze often. I get liver blood tests, and they come back normal, but I still get pain or pressure in my side.. Maybe from playing guitar. Also I tend to get in trouble when I drink too much and I'm completely out for a day if I get a bad hangover.

I actually know a Dj who caught cirrhosis because he was drinking so often at his gigs.

[Lizard King]

Drinks/bar for dates is cliche and unoriginal.

Not needing alcohol shows you to be of strong character.

[Lizard King]

(06-14-2014 08:22 PM)Charlemagne In Sweatpants Wrote:  

I love threads like these, since they always seem to pop up when I'm thinking about falling off the wagon to see if it makes dating "easier." There's some good advice here.

I've had some recent success with the following...

Girl: "Wait, you're not drinking?"
Charlie: "Nope."
Girl: "That's a little weird. Why?"
Charlie: "It's a long story, but don't worry, there are still plenty of ways for you to entice me without booze."
Girl: "Oh yeah, and what's that?"
Charlie: "I'd recommend starting with a sundress and cleavage, but it looks like you've already got that covered." [I always insist that a girl wears a sundress on a first date during Sundress Season]

You submitted to her neg about you not drinking.

Girl: "Wait, you're not drinking?"
Charlie: "Nope."
Girl: "That's a little weird. Why?"
Charlie: "I don't need alcohol to have fun or to be fun to be with." (you maintain a mysterious vibe, demonstrate your solid frame)
Girl: "Really? Tell me more"
Charlie: *more Game*
Girl: "my pussy is wet"