[thegreenman]

(03-10-2017 05:00 PM)ms224 Wrote:  

GM, do you think great adventures are supposed to be easy?

No of course they're not, and mine's been very, VERY hard. But as much as they're supposed to involve difficulty, they're also supposed to involve reward. They're supposed to have endings - or at least small rewards along the way. I'm not asking for a magic wand to finish the adventure - or even for the adventure to finish at all, since, after all, Life isn't supposed to stop being an adventure. I'm just asking for the adventure to involve a chick. A reward. SOMETHING.

But my journey has been the opposite of this. It's been a long series of challenges, which I've faced down, one by one. A long series of fears, which I've conquered, one by one. A long series of "dark nights of the soul", where I thought I just couldn't go on anymore, and then picked myself up and went on, again and again, one after another after another. I can't even count how many times I've reached "rock bottom", the point where I was most tempted to give up (and at which point most people would have given up), and kept going anyway, and found the light at the end of the tunnel.

The problem is, every single time, that light turned out to be an illusion, a false promise. Nothing happened. Nothing significant. And then I went into a another tunnel, faced another dark night, felt temptation to quit, persevered, and found the light once again... only to find out that it's an illusion, just like the previous time.

I've been through so many dark nights and rock bottoms that it's getting old. It's BORING now. It's boring because there's no reward involved. Other people might face a similar number of challenges, but, if they're stalwart enough to overcome them, they experience reward - some intensely pleasurable experience to remind them of WHY they persevered through their challenges, to reinforce the fact that challenges are WORTH overcoming.

I don't get those rewards. They're just missing from the equation.

Imagine slaying a dragon, and finding out that the princess was just a mannequin, leading you to another castle with another dragon.

Then you go slay that dragon, and there's another mannequin, pointing you to the next castle. It's like the original Super Mario Brothers. That's my life.

Mario, that poor fucker, he could have banged the princess after each castle. That would have been fair. Slay a dragon, bang a princess. I don't think that's asking for a lot - after all, we're talking about slaying fucking dragons, an incredibly difficult feat that most men wouldn't even attempt, and most who attempt fail at. To have a simple reward at the end of that? Not unreasonable to me.

Or at least ONE princess after every TEN dragons. That's REALLY not asking for a lot.

But it hasn't happened. There's been no reward, and even though my neocortex still believes with 100% confidence that the journey is worthwhile, my hypothalamus/reward-circuitry is not having much to work with anymore.

[TTQQTT]

(03-10-2017 12:05 PM)thegreenman Wrote:  

I find it truly inconceivable that any guy can be happy without some kind of "feminine presence" in his life. As far as I know, we are yang and they are yin - we are complimentary opposites that are fundamentally, metaphysically interdependent on one another, since the Dawn of Creation. For a yang to exist in completion without a yin is like asking for a magnet with only one pole, or an atom with only protons. It's physically impossible, at the level of the most basic building blocks of the universe.

Now I'm open to being wrong about that. I'm always open to questioning my beliefs, and, if they're shown to be wrong, letting go of them and welcoming new ones. If it's not true, I don't want to believe it. But everything I've ever seen and every moment in this life I've ever experienced have shown me that it IS true.

It hurts. EXISTING hurts. It's like one of the science-fiction movies where the monster says "it hurts to exist, put me out of my misery", and the poor thing's very existence is inextricably made out of suffering. But there's ONE difference between that situation and mine: ONE thing that alleviates the pain. GIRLS.

They do more than alleviate it. They spontaneously transform it into pleasure. Sweetness. All they have to do is be near me. To talk to me. To allow me to bask in the radiant glow of their femininity. And the pain of mere existence is transformed into pleasure. I LOVE being alive on this Earth.

And then they keep walking, and the glow recedes, and I'm back to suffering again.

Every moment of every day hurts. Every moment is a struggle to suppress or ignore or "deal with" the pain enough to function. Every moment of every day, I want to crawl back in bed and go to sleep, and not be conscious, so that the pain of existing will not be there. Every time I've ever smiled, it was fake, because I was in pain underneath. Every approach. Every time I went hiking. Every beautiful sunset I've ever viewed. All were made possible by a suppression/compartmentalization of the pain of sexual isolation. In every one of those moments, I was compartmentalizing it, but just barely. Enough to function without people noticing. Or without them noticing *too much.*

Except when I was near girls.

I don't know if this will help(more so coming from a 20 years old guy), but have you read The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus? You can be happy with absolutely nothing. Just the simple fact that you exist is a win, so keep trying... but you shouldn't put your happiness on something other than yourself.

[thegreenman]

(03-10-2017 11:48 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Then fuck optimism.

Go about improving one aspect of your life one day at a time.

Losing weight
Improving your looks - shaving head.
Learning Game - reading.
Making money - finding a good job.

Get a life first, take control of your body in terms of what you can improve.

Then come back to chasing girls.

You are barely 31 - your entire life is ahead of you. You can improve on every front still. What are you going to lose? You are not 70 yet with zero options.

Well I already know game. I've been studying it religiously since I was 17. I've read every theory out there, and studied from a wide variety of different gurus. I did over 3000 cold approaches in every setting imaginable, from sidewalks to clubs, from bondage festivals to church.

I already shave my head.

I've had a well-paying job for the past year.

I'm a little bit chubby... but little enough that a light jacket makes it unnoticeable. I would like to be jacked, of course - who wouldn't? I do exercise. I climb mountains. Although in the past few months, I've been doing it less and less - I just don't see much of a point in doing ANYTHING anymore.

And I really don't think SMV is the primary problem. It's not that I can't get chicks to be interested in me. That was the issue in America, but over here, it's not. I'm a fucking ROCKSTAR over here. Random strangers walk up to me on the street to take selfies with me. Girls get butterflies just from me LOOKING at them. I'm not exaggerating.

SMV isn't the problem anymore. The problem is... umm.... well I don't know what it is. I can't CONNECT with them.

[Harami]

@thegreenman
Can you show us how your top 10 approaches went out of the 3000? I could learn something from your misfortune..I mean experience.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Your issues are more psychological in nature. You connect with some girls by having a joint family. Find one who likes to hike and loves nature - one that you love to smell (strong sexual chemistry that way). That is enough. Chinese girls open up with time - it is different to European ones.

It is as Gavin McInnes once said about the few hot feminists out there - fuck them, have kids with them and a live - you have plenty of topics to talk about not involving politics or feminism at all. You can even work living with such women.

It is now mostly in your head - there is no easy way overcoming that.

[thegreenman]

Here's a piece of insight I've noticed, which maybe I haven't shared yet.

In the natural human condition, to put it bluntly, children witness their parents having sex. Before we lived in suburban houses, the whole family lived in a one-room hut or cottage, and children witnessed sex all the time. Even in modern houses, children see their parents having sex SOMETIMES.

But it my house, I never saw my parents have sex. I never saw them intimate with each other. I never found condoms or lingerie or sex toys in their bedroom (despite searching). I never even saw them embrace each other in a genuine way.

I didn't see any relatives, or friends doing it. Even in college, I happened to get roommates with no sex lives.

It was like the whole universe conspired to prevent my virgin eyes from seeing anything sexual - or even sensual.

I have a friend from back home, who was in a similar situation as me - very very frustrated in sexuality. He did manage to get a few girlfriends in highschool, but they were shallow and short-lived relationships. In college and after, he managed to get an occasional fuck, and an occasional brief girlfriend for a month or so. He did better than I did... but still, very little, and he was very frustrated. He was my main companion in The Quest for Vagina.

And a few years ago, he happened to meet a player. A guy who's had sex with at a number of girls somewhere in the 100's. This player got a job at his company, and they worked together, valeting cars. This player was a total fuckup in every area of life, except girls. And the two of them started hanging out together.

Once they started hanging out, my friend's success with girls shot up like a rocket. He started getting a lot more dates, which turned into girlfriends, and relationships, and now he's with a long-termer that he might even marry. And it all started when he began hanging out with this player dude.

Because he's a fellow game-reader, he was astute enough to make the causal connection on his own. He told me "you need to find an alpha and be friends with him." Easier said than done of course. I can't even remember the last time I met an actual player, in person (not on the internet), other than the one my friend hung out with, who, shortly after bestowing his gifts upon my friend, went into coke-rehab and disappeared off the map.

There is a MAP of sexuality that's missing from my mind. Most people get it by witnessing it. It's like an apostolic succession.

Maybe that's the problem. I dunno. It's a guess.

[thegreenman]

(03-12-2017 09:12 AM)Harami Wrote:  

@thegreenman
Can you show us how your top 10 approaches went out of the 3000? I could learn something from your misfortune..I mean experience.

Well it's hard to pick a top 10 out of 3000, especially since it was years ago. And there really wasn't much of a pattern, either. It was all over the map. I tried so many different strategies and types of approaches that I can't really boil it down to any specific type of game.

One that does come to mind, though, is the chick from the Bedouin tent in Israel. (it's in my wall-of-text OP). That's probably the one I'm most proud of, and it felt the most NATURAL. I just walked up to her and stared into her eyes without saying a word. It was primal. And electrifying. All other approaches involved some amount of game, indirect and/or canned or rehearsed... but that one was pure instinct, and it flowed.

Another one I feel like bragging about is when I approached an absolute 10/10 (no, like 100/10) on the sidewalk in Montreal while she was doing a modelling shoot. I waited for the cameraman to take a break, and then approached her and talked. She was friendly, surprisingly. But when I asked for her number, she laughed, and so did her crew. That's the kind of thing that boosts my ego, having the courage to do something like that. But it's ultimately fruitless. It didn't get me anywhere.

Those types of crazy scary approaches... in fact, most cold approaches, but especially those crazy ones... I didn't think they were actually going to work, when I did them. I usually did them to show off to my pickup-buddies. Or to myself. I went into those approaches with almost zero confidence that it would lead anywhere. And in the absence of that confidence, I used the next best thing: the desire to impress other guys, and/or the desire to prove to myself that I was unafraid. In the case of the Montreal model, I was alone, and there was no one to impress, so I did it to prove to myself that I could. That I wasn't too nervous. That the fear of social ridicule was not enough to stop me from pursuing my dreams and goals. My philosophy was "A rising tide of courage lifts all boats." If I conquered fears, one by one, then eventually all of that fear-conquering would produce SOME kind of reward. Even if the connection between the fear and the goal wasn't entirely clear, just the fact that it was a fear, and the fact that I was moving forward into that fear and conquering it, I figured would raise my sexuality boat the way overall economic prosperity lifts even the poorest members of society up, according to conservative economic theories. So the scarier the approach, the more psyched I was about doing it.

But I usually didn't think it would actually lead anywhere. And I was right.

[thegreenman]

(03-12-2017 08:42 AM)TTQQTT Wrote:  

(03-10-2017 12:05 PM)thegreenman Wrote:  

I find it truly inconceivable that any guy can be happy without some kind of "feminine presence" in his life. As far as I know, we are yang and they are yin - we are complimentary opposites that are fundamentally, metaphysically interdependent on one another, since the Dawn of Creation. For a yang to exist in completion without a yin is like asking for a magnet with only one pole, or an atom with only protons. It's physically impossible, at the level of the most basic building blocks of the universe.

Now I'm open to being wrong about that. I'm always open to questioning my beliefs, and, if they're shown to be wrong, letting go of them and welcoming new ones. If it's not true, I don't want to believe it. But everything I've ever seen and every moment in this life I've ever experienced have shown me that it IS true.

It hurts. EXISTING hurts. It's like one of the science-fiction movies where the monster says "it hurts to exist, put me out of my misery", and the poor thing's very existence is inextricably made out of suffering. But there's ONE difference between that situation and mine: ONE thing that alleviates the pain. GIRLS.

They do more than alleviate it. They spontaneously transform it into pleasure. Sweetness. All they have to do is be near me. To talk to me. To allow me to bask in the radiant glow of their femininity. And the pain of mere existence is transformed into pleasure. I LOVE being alive on this Earth.

And then they keep walking, and the glow recedes, and I'm back to suffering again.

Every moment of every day hurts. Every moment is a struggle to suppress or ignore or "deal with" the pain enough to function. Every moment of every day, I want to crawl back in bed and go to sleep, and not be conscious, so that the pain of existing will not be there. Every time I've ever smiled, it was fake, because I was in pain underneath. Every approach. Every time I went hiking. Every beautiful sunset I've ever viewed. All were made possible by a suppression/compartmentalization of the pain of sexual isolation. In every one of those moments, I was compartmentalizing it, but just barely. Enough to function without people noticing. Or without them noticing *too much.*

Except when I was near girls.

I don't know if this will help(more so coming from a 20 years old guy), but have you read The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus? You can be happy with absolutely nothing. Just the simple fact that you exist is a win, so keep trying... but you shouldn't put your happiness on something other than yourself.

I haven't read that myth. I'll check it out. Thanks.

But man... I've heard the "you can and should be happy all on your own" thing so many times... and I've even tried it... but it's just so fantastical to me. It's like the opposite end of reality. I can't conceive of it. Every time I try, I get MORE unhappy. It's like a have to bury a part of myself in order to tell myself the lie that it's possible, and then I just come out the other end feeling even drier, stiffer, and more repressed than before.

[Turnus]

Uhm, I never witnessed my parents having sex, nor have I've heard of others witnessing the same. Sure, love, affection, touch, etc. But I don't think one needs to witness it as a youth to have a normalized sexual life as an adult.

[thegreenman]

(03-12-2017 11:52 AM)Turnus Wrote:  

Uhm, I never witnessed my parents having sex, nor have I've heard of others witnessing the same. Sure, love, affection, touch, etc. But I don't think one needs to witness it as a youth to have a normalized sexual life as an adult.

Yea but you must have witnessed SOMETHING in the realm of sensuality or sexuality or intimacy. Not necessarily in your parents, but in SOMEBODY. You must have overheard a neighbor, or been with a friend who had a girlfriend while they were holding each other close.... something.

I seem to have been raised in a completely sterilized environment.

[ms224]

At the risk of pulling the pin on a handgrenade, cold approach is probably the worst way to meet people.

Think about it, why would someone want to be your friend from nowhere?

You said you like to climb and be outdoorsy?

Do some ironman's, join a climbing gym (pretty sure there aren't any fat people there) or something of the sort.

As far as slaying dragoons go, life isn't fair, but sometimes maybe its not fair in your favor.

What's your other option? Quit?

ETA Post #300!

[thegreenman]

Ok guys, I had a major realization last night. This might seem a little "out there", but bear with me. My logic is airtight. (And if it's not airtight, feel free to point out any flaws you see).

Here we go:

1. I am entirely capable of having sex. I am capable of finding women who want to have sex, and having sex with them. This ability is within the range of abilities that I possess.

2. If #1 is true, and the problem is not a lack of capability, then the fact that I haven't done so must be because of some force in opposition. Something is stopping me. An "equal and opposite force" is being applied from the other direction. I'm being cockblocked, essentially.

3. If the force described in #2 were just an accident, a result of natural forces, then I would have been able to overcome it, quite easily. If the web restraining me were an accident, then I would have been able to untangle myself from it, looooooong ago. I'm really smart. I would have figured it out. Therefore, it must have been woven by some kind of intelligence. Some*ONE* is behind this.

4. One theory is that the "someone" is me. But this breaks down under scrutiny. The main question is WHY - WHY would I do this to myself? I do understand that *short-term* frustrations can be valuable learning experiences. I understand that sometimes, adversity has to be presented, in order for growth to take place. This makes sense if I was involuntarily celibate for like... a few months. Maybe a year, TOPS. But anything more than that is just cruel, and not just cruel, but redundant. Whatever the lesson is or was, if I haven't learned it yet, then obviously the method of "total self-denial" isn't WORKING. Take whatever life-lesson or experience I was supposed to get from involuntary celibacy, and compare it against all of the learning experiences that I MISSED OUT ON by not even having a fucking FOOT in the realm of intimacy for SIXTEEN FUCKING YEARS - all the relationships I missed, all the sex I missed, all those boring, totally uneventful nights spent just sitting alone by myself staring at a blank wall, all of those short, shallow conversations I had with girls instead of deep, meaningful, emotion-filled relationships.... clearly I learned LESS about life, and experienced far less growth and opportunities for development as a result of this terrible strategy. So, identifying myself as the intentional long-term cockblocker is logically untenable. It wasn't me.

5. So who the fuck was it? It could have been my parents, or someone in my family. But I've been away from them for years now. They haven't had the ability to control me in a long time - yet, my problem has not been fixed. In some ways, it's even getting worse. I don't feel any closer to freedom. My parents couldn't be responsible for all of this. No human being could.

6. Therefore, the entity responsible must not be human. So we're basically dealing with a demon.

The way my life has been set up PERFECTLY to deny me sex or any form of relationship... the way events just seem to fall into place perfectly, all the time, to prevent female connections from happening... there's clearly an intelligence behind this.

I'll be walking down the street with a buddy, and I'll look over at something interesting, and then my buddy will say "hey, that girl was checking you out!" and I'll be like, "what girl?" And he'll be like "you didn't see her?" No, I was looking at that...

It all happens perfectly.

One time, I had a date set up with a girl from OKCupid, who seemed to really be enthusiastic about seeing me. On the day we were supposed to meet, her car broke down. Another time, a girl's phone fell into a lake and she couldn't call me. I actually investigated these instances a bit, and I really don't think they were bullshitting. This type of thing has happened SO many times. Once or twice, and it could be just coincidence... but we're talking every single time. Every single day.

And as a result of sexual isolation, I fall into a porn habit. A habit that just happens to produce tons of sexual energy, in a vacuum, with no partner to receive it... a perfect recipe for a demon to absorb that energy.

Last night, I went for a walk, and realized all of this. I then prayed, and asked God to tell me the name of the demon involved. I closed my eyes, concentrated on my mind's eye, and saw the name "Asmodeus." I was like, uh, really? It's that simple? Can't be. So I tried again and again, and kept getting that same name.

When I got home, I googled Asmodeus. To my shock, he's the official demon of Lust - the one responsible for twisting sexuality. Shit.

I knew nothing about this dude before last night. I had heard the name before, but knew no details about him. All I knew was that he was in D&D, but never encountered him when I played that game back in the day. Seriously, what skeptical explanation can there be for this?

[thegreenman]

So, I asked God to neutralize him for me, to remove him from any sort of influence over me - immediately, completely, and permanently, and without any reservation. Immediately I felt like a burden lifted off my shoulders, and a bunch of noise in my head stopped.

We'll see what happens.

[thegreenman]

That was last night, and just now, about an hour ago, a girl who I really liked, whom I'd written off as not interested, messaged me to go hiking!

[lapalco]

You have to stop giving a shit. Do it for your own amusement.

Its weird, but ive found that game works most when you treat it like a "game." Duh. Like a fun game, you know. Yeah, you want to win, but its not the end of the world if you lose. Life goes on. No regrets cause you had fun.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Sorry Greenman, but there is no demon working against you.

You were simply born with a normally strong desire for women while having many handicaps - short stature, not overly good looks, slight autistic damage (if I am not mistaken - don't know if that applies to you), overbearing negative Jewish mother etc.. In addition you have talked with many very hot girls which probably gave you more delusions than assessments of reality.

You should have attempted to bang less attractive fatter girls and then moved from there.

Also you absolutely need to maximize your SMV points - meaning truly squeeze out of your SMV as much as possible:

+ bulk up
+ get ripped - simply get on a calorie restriction diet
+ get tanned
+ get yourself some shoes which raise your height - Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise wear those all the time, so why shouldn't you?
+ make money - activate your Jewish privilege even if you hate it
+ even get a tattoo

When you have maxed out all those things, then you will feel much better about yourself and have a different perception about women since your SMV has been raised. Especially if you concentrate about money you can get a lot of added value, but I wouldn't discount a six-pack with muscles either.

Some of the advice is usually overkill or not necessary for most men, but since you desire female attraction so much while being the way you are - then I am afraid that you have to put in the time. More approaches contrary to most men are not necessary in your case.

Consider your life a project or a real-life game - with the above mentioned points tasks that need to achieved befor you meet the next boss-level.

[Ringo]

^ Zel, do you think improving on the points above will help him even if he's chasing girls with the mindset he described on the last page?

After the posts on the previous page, I get the feeling GM is so thirsty and desperate for a girl - well, a human, loving connection through a girl, really - that I'm not sure any of those external factors would improve his condition.

I'd address those psychological issues first, because 1. that vibe is repellent to (healthy, stable) people, which just compounds to the sufferable hand he's been dealt; 2. if he does find a girl he'll end up in another "soulmate" situation like with the Russian chick or worse because of his naive intention; and 3, because he'll invariably go back to being miserable as soon as something bad happens.

You can't build a great building on a weak foundation.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Psychological issues would be more important, but are difficult to address.

Self-improvement focuses on yourself instead of directly on girls - cutting body-fat down to 9%, lifting, making money - those are things which help in the areas of male achievement. Targeting those things make you feel better about yourself.

He has no trouble talking to girls, but has just bad perceptions about them and there is too much frustration going on.

Also I would add a strict - NO FAP and NO PORN REGIME. That helps with achievement of the other issues as well.

[Harami]

(Spoiler Alert!)
Greenman for reason reminds me of this movie about a PoW. Who didn't know what to do with his life after the war ended. He couldn't live his life normally again. All he could think about was how he was mistreated by this Japanese officer. For years, as a prisoner. Beaten, Starved. He was depressed and couldn't emotionally reconnect with his family. Near the end, he decides that he will kill that man even if he has go to jail for it. He finds out his whereabouts in a newspaper clip. Now he aboards a train to Vietnam. He finds that man working at a war museum and he confronts him. At gun point (knife actually), he interviews him in the same manner he did (he was an interpreter for him at that time). Long story short, he realizes that the officer was JUST A BISH / pussie at that time and he decides not to kill him, but FORGIVE him, They even became friends, they cry together (well, like men ofcourse) He realized it was the war that caused them their differences.

The movie is "The Railway Man".

Forgive those 3000 ( how did you keep count?) girls that turned you down, don't hold a decade long grudge. Let this thread die. Nobody has the exact, accurate, pinpoint, precise, hit the nail on the head answer that you want so badly as to why game didn't work for you specifically. Find your Vietnam and get laid.

Just Saying.
-WIA ..magod what just happened
No I mean Harami

[thegreenman]

I just had a VERY interesting night.

After a rather long time without doing any night-game (or much gaming in general), I decided to go out for an honest-to-goodness club pickup. Just like old times.

I picked the best club I could think of in the city, one with a bouncing dance floor. I went with an open mind, and no specific expectations, except to learn, experience, and scrub some of the rust off my game.

I went all in, partaking of the leafy sacrament upstairs, and then hitting the dance floor in my best condition. But on the way there, on the staircase, I came across two girls, at least one of whom gave me a particularly intense, direct, playful staredown. Her "look" was that of a "club chick", the kind that goes to clubs a lot, and really gets into it. Midriff showing - very rare in conservative western China. I made a mental note to talk to her at some point.

I get to the dance floor, and within a minute, that same girl shows up right next to me, with her friend, also very attractive, and they start dancing right next to me, making repeated eye contact with me and smiling a naughty smile my way.

Whereas in times past, I would have thought "ok, how do I make this happen?", tonight, I had a different thought - "Let this happen." Very different attitude. Having recently exorcised a literal demon (those things are real) that had been following me around for probably my whole life, I realized that with that dude gone, the thing that was stopping me wasn't there anymore. In other words, it wasn't that I "didn't know how" to get girls - I always knew how, but there was something stopping me, and now, with that thing gone, there was no need to figure how how to make it happen, because it happens on its own, naturally. So I just let it.

And it did. Flirty glances, a little bit of showing off, good spirits, and allowing (there's that key word - allowing) the girls to get closer to me, within a minute I was in a circle with them. Me, the midriff girl, and her friend. Then a third girl (a friend of theirs) joined in, and I was dancing with three girls, basically all focused on me.

I was like, whoa, this is cool.

Then the third girl left the circle, and a few dudes started to squeeze in to take her place. I returned to focusing on the first two girls: Midriff Girl and her friend.

I noticed that I was paying a lot of attention to Midriff Girl, and not much to her friend. I mean, midriffs are kind of enchanting. But I realized that I might be missing out on this other girl. She's actually pretty cute. Dressed conservatively in a black sweater. But very cute. I make it a point to divide my attention evenly between them, not picking and choosing.

Soon, the dynamic seems to shift toward the friend. Let's call her Potential Girlfriend-material Girl. PGmG for short.

Within a few more minutes, we're making simple kino (high fives, hand-holding when everyone formed into a ring-dance, a brief hand on her shoulder after accidently bumping into her a bit), and she's not backing away. Her face is lit up, radiant, happy.

I've done a lot of game in my day (as those of you who read my 3000-approach thread know quite well), and I remember very very few times when I did this well in a night-game setting, so quickly, so smoothly, so flawlessly, and so effortlessly. This was like a reawakening of reality for me. I kept repeating, "let it happen, let it happen" in my mind.

For one song, we hold both hands, raising them above our heads, pressing palms together, doing a twirl, and she's having a blast. Her friends even seem to be trying to set her up. I got the impression that she had maybe been down on her luck in the love department recently, and her friends were hoping for her to find another guy, to stop being single. I don't know whether that's true - it's just the sort of vibe I got from the situation, because her friends were being unusually supportive of getting her together with me. They were kind of cheering it on, vibe-wise.

After that song ended, I was thirsty, so I told her I was gonna go get water. I attempted to ask her if she wanted anything from the bar (in my still very rudimentary Mandarin), and the communication barrier led to a brief chat where we were trying to figure out what each other was saying. Eventually I made a pantomime of drinking water, and pointed to the bar, and went to get a drink. I got water (my favorite). I thought about getting her a water, but realized it could be creepy to pressure a girl to drink from an open glass (roofies and such), so I decided to just get one for myself. Then I made my way back over to where we were.

They weren't there. I thought that was kind of odd. I was gone for maybe... 3 minutes? 4 minutes tops. I waited, sipping my water. Eventually PGmG came back. Same smile, same enthusiasm - but she was with a dude this time. Two of them. Two of the same ones that had been trying to get into the original dance circle from before. Now I could tell they were definitely batting for the other team. In fact, during the dance circle, they had been oddly more focused on me than on the girls. That's an annoying thing that tends to happen a lot when I do dance-floor game.

So anyway, the four of us are now talking. Me, PGmG, and her two probably-gay friends. I make sure to avoid being rude to the dudes, to include them in the conversation in a polite way, while continuing to chat mainly with PGmG. I have what small conversation I can have with her, given the language issue. I figure out where she's from - she's a tourist here (I live in a major tourist town), and is going to be in town for 2 more days. I ask her if she's been up the mountain yet (there's a big snow-capped mountain that dominates the topography, which many people come here to see). She says she hasn't. I'm shocked. I tell her she mustn't leave without going there, and I offer to show it to her. I ask for her Wechat.

When I ask for her Wechat, the two gay dudes start to go bonkers. They start saying "wei xin! [Chinese for Wechat] Wei xin!" while laughing to themselves as if my request was crazy and hilarious. They put their arms around PGmG, saying something to her in Chinese (probably "why would you give him your Wechat? Don't be silly!") or something along those lines.

But the girl is remaining stalwart. She's not giving in to their shenanigans. I can tell she's under pressure, and feels very shy about the whole thing... but she's not walking away. She's staying there, continuing to face me, continuing to talk to me, even though she's blushing more and more. Finally I man up and look directly at her and say "Wechat". She gets out her phone, and we exchange information.

It was implied that they were all getting ready to leave, so I assumed the interaction was over. I made my way off the dance floor, and ran into Midriff Girl sitting at a table with several other people. She waved to me and smiled and big smile, so I went over and talked to her. Learned her name, learned a few more things about her and her friends. I sat down, and met the girl sitting next to her... let's call her Librarian Girl. She had a librarianny and slightly kinkyish and also slightly tomboyish vibe. Her English was the best of the whole crowd. I got into a conversation with her, learning yet more about the group.

I must emphasize that they were all welcoming and inviting, and that this all flowed easily, with approval and enthusiasm from all of them. I was not acting like some aspie oblivious to social cues. They were inviting me, offering me food, pouring beer for me, holding up their cups to gan bei (cheers) me, and so forth.

So while conversing with Librarian Girl, Midriff Girl gets up and goes somewhere, and their friend - the one who had been in the dance circle earlier, the third girl when I was dancing with three - she shows up, and she's the most drunk of them all. She does some... what's the word.. ho-ey? Slutty gestures/moves? Like she caressed me while moaning, briefly. The kind a working-girl does when she's trying to entice you. I found it a bit weird. Too soon. Too drunk. No context. Just wasn't into this. But I asked her her name, and introduced myself. Just being friendly to everyone in the social circle.

PGmG (Potential Girlfriend-material Girl) comes back to the table, taps me on the shoulder, and says she's going to the dance floor, and that that's where I can find her. She goes off. I chat with Librarian Girl and Call-girl-like Girl for another minute or so. The conversation lulls, so I get up and tell them I'm going to the dance floor. I invite them to come along. They say no, they're staying at the table, and Call-girl-like Girl tells me to go - go to the dance floor. Adding to my sense that the whole group is trying to set me and PGmG up together.

Now here's where it got weird.

I go to the dance floor. They're not there. I wander around a bit. I find PGmG at a table with the two gay dudes, drinking. I see them, and say hey. Something's weird - they're not being so friendly this time. I gan bei (cheers) them, and after that, one of the gay dudes starts saying/shouting something at PGmG. They start arguing (I have no idea what they're saying), and after a few moments, gay dude drags her off. He literally grabs her by the arm, and pulls her away from the table. He walks very quickly, dragging her with quite a bit of force it seems, back to their table.

I follow them back, and when I get there, PGmG is laying down next to Librarian Girl, and she's got a jacket or something covering up her body, and I can't see her face. I sit down next to her, and ask her what happened back there - why did he drag you like that? Is everything alright? She looks very embarrassed, blushing a lot, and won't answer. I ask Libarian Girl what's going on. She doesn't really respond. I get out my phone and start typing something into Translate, but before I finish, one of the club staff comes over to me, taps me on the shoulder, and beckons me to get up and leave.

I ask him why. He makes the "leave" gesture again. I type in Translate "what happened?" He types back "They don't like you."

I type in "Actually, she likes me, but I think her gay friends are jealous." He laughs, and shakes his head, as if to say "Hey, I was asked to get you to leave, I don't know what happened, I'm just doing my job, I don't know anything about this situation, sorry."

I go back over to the dance floor, but decide I need some fresh air, so I go back outside for a bit. I sit and think about what just happened.

I have some VERY interesting ideas about what happened.

But before I get to the analysis, let's finish up the story. Eventually I go back inside. I go to the bathroom. The men's room is being mopped, so the staff is directing men into the women's bathroom. There's a bit of a line to use the stalls, so I stand in line. While I'm standing there, Librarian Girl comes in. She walks right in front of me, without saying anything, and stands in the line for the stall next to mine. I say hey. She says hey, curtly. I ask her "what happened back there?" All she says is, "...yea."

I ask her if I did something wrong. I ask her if she, or anyone in the group, is mad at me. I ask her again, if I did anything wrong. She won't say a word. Just stands there with her arms crossed, looking away from me.

On my way out of the club, I see the gay dudes drinking at a table. I go over and ask them "what happened?" They're hostile towards me. I open Translate, switch it to CN-EN, and ask one of the dudes to type in an answer. He types: "They don't like you."

I know I have PGmG's Wechat. I don't need these weirdos anymore - I can just message her directly. I say ok, shake their hands, and wish them a good night.

Whew...

So... what happened?

Here's my hypothesis.

The gay dudes were jealous, and tried to sabotage the budding relationship. But it's more than that.

Gay dudes are an issue whenever I do dance-floor game. They always try to get in between me and whatever girl I'm focused on. It's a persistent annoyance, and I'm not sure how to stop it. I can't be outright rude to them - it looks really bad. What I usually end up doing is just ignoring them, and continuing to focus on the girl.

I think it's my size. I'm 5'2". To be blunt, I think they think I'd make a good... uh... whatever term they use for such things. It's quite disturbing to think about, but we're all grownups here. Forget about pride - I want to understand what's going on.

So I think what we've got going on here is a conspiracy.

It's a conspiracy, by queers, to sabotage heterosexual relationships, in order to frustrate people, thus creating more queers, and more potential partners for them.

It's a... consqueeracy.

Guys, what if... What if this whole cultural shitstorm we've had going on for the past several decades was a massive, coordinated effort by queers to engineer more queers? I mean, what if they infiltrated government and media and everything, in order to deliberately screw up heterosexual relationships, to sabotage us, to prevent us from being satisfied (or in tonight's case, prevent our relationships from even forming in the first place) - all so that we'd eventually give up, go over to the "dark side", give queerness a shot, and broaden their pool of potential partners?

Librarian Girl definitely had something queer going on with her. She, I feel, was batting for that team. And after her cold-shoulder treatment at the end, it's obvious that she took part in the conspiracy, however it unfolded.

In contrast, Midriff Girl was clearly very heterosexual, and she seemed to be trying to bring me and PGmG together, to set us up with each other.

And then of course, PGmG herself was into me, very engaged, and very happy when she was talking to me.

Everyone in the group who was normal was pro, and all the queers were anti.

Wow.

This is really weird. Has anyone ever thought about this kinda stuff before?


TLDR: I got back into club game, had a really smooth, effortless connection with a girl on the dance floor, felt like a sexy awesome beast, and was then sabotaged by some queers, and now I'm wondering if there's a wider "consqueeracy."

[thegreenman]

Hi everyone. I'm back again. The last time I posted was in March. It's time to give you guys an update.

In June I went on a visa hop / mini-holiday to Laos. In the guesthouse where I was staying, there was a girl who gave me lots of attention, laughed at all my jokes, was super interested in my collection of mountain photos from Yunnan, allowed me to watch Charlie Chaplin videos on Youtube with her, and took me on a tour of Vientiane landmarks, like the Giant Buddha and the Arch d'Triomph thing. She's cute, has a very nice shape, and while I have a suspicion that her incessant chattering is annoying to most people, I, in contrast, find it to have a pleasing, musical quality that's quite enjoyable to listen to. This last fact is an example of uniquely appreciating a "quirk", which is prime evidence of romanceability. We had meals together, were around eachother basically all day for 3 days, and then went to Vang Vieng (a town about 4 hours north), which I had been eager to visit for quite some time, due to the availability of psilocybin mushrooms there. She brought me to farm fields and cow pastures to pick them, since she knows what they look like, and has an eagle eye for them, due to working as a chef in one of the town's many restaurants in which they're served in smoothies. She also brought me to waterfalls and swimming holes, where we swam and laughed and posed for photos together.

If you may recall, my previous relationships were not really relationships - not fully.

The evangelical baptist fanatic girl was playing "flirt to convert."

The rich single-mom chick just wanted to experiment with a foreign boo, and basically treated me as a booty call, phoning me on evenings when she wanted me to come over, dumping me unceremoniously when she was busy with work, and reaching out again when she got lonely/bored, repeating this cycle continuously.

The Filipina chick in Bangkok was more of a girlfriend, and was the healthiest relationship by far - but there was no coitus involved, so that need went unaddressed and had no context for expression.

The Russian chick had a husband, whom she slept in the same room with for every single night I knew her, and despite her passionate professions of the deepest soul-level love for me, she only found the time to see me a few times a month.

And so, with the Lao chick, I had my first experience of someone treating me as an actual boyfriend, both in the daytime and in the nighttime. We even talked (semi- jokingly) about getting married.

For a few days, I tasted something resembling the first seeds of happiness.

But my rational mind is strong, and I couldn't maintain the suspension of disbelief indefinitely. Since I was only there for 9 days in total, I had hoped I could fool myself into believing, just long enough to last the trip, and come back to Yunnan with fresh memories of a loving girlfriend.

But in the back of my mind, I knew it was just an act. I pay for her expenses, and buy her gifts - and she gives me the Girlfriend Experience.

Mind you, we never discussed any deals. There was no "set price on services." I didn't hand her money. But the principle was an economic exchange. That's just how it is, in Southeast Asia, for whiteys. So I bought her everything she asked for. They were such small things - $1 for a bracelet, $3 for a top, $4 for a blouse - how could I object? The most expensive thing she asked for was a traditional Lao dress, which was somewhere around $30, tailoring included. And in return, she doted on me. Slept with me night after night. Cooked gourmet meals for me, taught me things, gave me affection in public (allowing me to be, for the first time EVER, the subject of male sexual envy, rather than the feeler of it - a totally new experience which had me feeling sympathy for the single guys, since I know what it's like), changed her Facebook status to "in a relationship with" yours truly, and gave me consistent practice at sex for the first time in my life. When I left, we corresponded online for 2 months, until my next visa hop, when I visited her, and we resumed our routine.

But I was only part-time employed (my employer was going bankrupt), and I had to be more mindful of my spending. I had to refuse a few purchases, and now she was asking for even bigger things, like a computer (I skated around this by giving her my old one) and tuition for a mushroom-growing course. I couldn't afford it, and told her why. She seemed to understand.

But still, money was going fast. Too fast. Faster even than I could account for. In fact, I literally couldn't account for where some of it went. It was strange. I thought I had X amount, but I only had Y. During the first trip, about $100 had mysteriously disappeared. This time, it seemed like every day a smaller amount ($5 - $10) was just slipping out of existence without actually being spent on anything that I could remember.

So finally, I counted the money in my wallet, left it on the bed, went to take a shower, came back, counted it again, and found about $6 missing. I didn't tell her until the next day, because I wanted to see if she would freely confess, without being caught red-handed. The next day, we went for a ride to a waterfall, and her bike had a mysterious problem and broke down very close to a repair shop. She didn't have any money, so I had to pay for the repair. So while we were stranded, waiting for the repair, I brought up the issue of the money-leak. To my surprise, she confessed on the first try. But here's the catch: she claimed her behavior was normal and socially acceptible. She said it's normal for girlfriends to take money out of their boyfriend's wallets - a kind of "my stuff is your stuff" thing. She said I could ask any couple in Laos, and they'll confirm its normality. I replied by asking if those girlfriends take the money out while their boyfriend is in the shower, so he doesn't see? She had no answer for that.

I really wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt. Maybe she has a sick relative, and they can't afford medicine? So I asked her precisely that question, and she said no. So I asked why she stole it. What did she spend it on? She listed the things she bought, along with their approximate cost, including clothes, a pair of shoes, and other non-medicine items.

I only had 2 or 3 more nights in Laos on that trip, so I decided to keep her around, have whatever more sexual practice I could, and keep a close eye on my belongings. The time passed uneventfully, and I came back to Yunnan. She sent me some pictures on FB, of her hanging out and getting almost lezzingly close with some Israeli chick we hung out with in a bar the night before I went home. Since then (late August, early September), we haven't communicated.

A few notes about the sex we had...

She behaves very much like a professional. She kind of like just throws herself (and me) on the bed, takes her own clothes off almost immediately, and pretty much gets down to business. My guess (and it's just a guess) is that she used to work in the sex industry, but eventually evolved to a new business model of long-term, non-explicitly prostitutional relationships with guys who want a GFE.

I found more pleasure in sex with her than with any previous partner, but it was still not that great. Just a tickling, really. A tickling of pleasure, comparable to those head-massager toys sold at mall kiosks. This, plus the ego-boost, made for an experience that was more enjoyable than being alone. For the first few days. But each night brought diminishing returns. And around the day 3 or 4 mark, (on both trips), I started feeling like there wasn't enough pleasure to be preferable to watching porn, because at least with porn, I can slowly build my arousal up - whereas with this chick, I'm expected to just be a raging stallion ready to bone her within 30 seconds of jumping onto to bed. There was no foreplay with this girl. Just bed -> take off clothes -> suck on my tongue -> jack me off -> suck my dick -> climb on top -> fuck -> expect me to cum. I kind of started to dread it. I looked for excuses to get out of it. On the second-to-last night of the second trip, I even pretended to be sick, and slept in another room I found unlocked (along with my wallet and phone, of course). The best sex of my life so far, though. Semi-sarcasm.

I've been slowly realizing that this whole thing just isn't going to work. This "sex" and "intimacy" thing. It's not really possible. After all I've gone through... it was all for nothing. The MOST I'm ever going to get is prostitution. Sex for money, with a chick who's just pretending to like me. Or a chick who only likes me because I'm white and have a perceived high social status due to being foreign - and once that initial curiosity wears off, I've got nothing. It might be OK if I was capable of enjoying spontaneous no-strings emotion-less sex... but I'm not. It's obvious that I need a real connection. And that's precisely the thing that no girl will ever have with me. Prostitution - both official and unofficial - is the MOST that's possible for me. And it's blatantly unfulfilling.

So I'm very sorry to say I've given up. I'm no longer seeking a relationship - all I seek now is some sort of grace to accept the fact that I can never have one in this lifetime. Or if not grace, at least numbness for the pain.

I'm not a mgtow. Mgtows think they can be happy without women, but I am under no such illusions. I know happiness is not available to me in this life. The most I can do is earn credit for the next life, by doing good deeds. Then maybe, just maybe, I'll have a chance, in another body.

My subconscious negative dialogue has finally gained the upper hand, as there's no reason to bother fighting it anymore. I heroically resisted for years and years, swimming with herculean willpower against the current, and I was able to summon that strength because I had hope and faith that it was *for* something. But now that I know the tunnel has no end, there's no reason to exert myself. I can't do it anymore. What am I fighting for? Nothing. You can't make a rotting fruit turn fresh, you can't make an old person young, you can't regrow a lost limb, and you can't make a person as sexually screwed as I am capable of sexual fulfillment. It's outside the realm of the possible.

So the negativity has won out. Now when I see girls, I remind myself that they're beyond my reach, and I'll never have them. My subconscious mind had always said this, but I used to consciously combat it. No more.

I noticed that there are men out there who have no sex, no chance of sex, and they're OK with it - it doesn't bother them. I always wondered how they got that way. I thought they were freaks. But I noticed they all have a very low sense of self-worth. They have this attitude of, "What? ME? With a GIRL? Aww shucks, that ain't happenin! Women are goddesses, and me, I'm just a dirty pathetic little worm with an evil little weiner! I don't wanna oppress women by soiling them with my pitiful presence!"

But I realized the reasoning behind this. It's about cognitive dissonance. They don't see a huge problem with their situation, because they dont think they're worthy of a woman. If they're not worthy of having one, then there's no cognitive dissonance from not having one. But me - I've always firmly believed I deserve one - so not having one produced a ton of cognitive dissonance and neurosis from its utter unresolvability.

But if i tell myself I'm not worthy, then maybe - just maybe - I can accept the situation. So I'm deliberately cultivating a dialogue of self-worth reduction.

The only alternative is to go the other way, and say there's nothing to be worthy OF, because sex isn't even good, it's sinful, dirty, evil, etc, or women aren't worth it, etc. But I think that could lead to queerness, or religious fundamentalism... I think the way I'm doing it is not as bad as those.

But of course, this is a very painful way to live, regardless of the dialogue. Even if I eliminate cognitive dissonance, I've still got to deal with the raw frustration, the loneliness, the absence of human touch. How? Well, I'm using a program of porn and weed - massive amounts of both. I watch porn for several hours a day. Anywhere from 1 hour to as many as 5 hours in a single night. I don't jerk off - I just watch. And the weed loosens up my imagination, making it more vivid. So, with this combination, I'm able to feel like the girl in the video is real, I'm really with her, and we're really dating. (I watch mostly soft-core stuff). I've discovered that I can feel like I'm in a relationship by using this technique.

It comes with a few major costs though. One is sleep deprivation: I'm up watching videos until 2:00, 3:00, 4:00, sometimes 5:00 or even 6:00. I'm becoming chronically sleep deprived.

Also, sitting still for hours makes me very tense. I find that in order to concentrate on the thoughts necessary for releasing the neurochemicals involved in romantic feelings, I have to tense up the muscles all over my body. After hours of this, I'm extremely tense, and it's starting to cause circulation problems. I wake up in the middle of the night with my arm totally numb - even though I wasn't even laying on it. I'm a little worried about the potential places this could go.

It's of course exacerbated by the fact that I do zero physical exercise. I just can't do it. I can make the decision, "I'm going to exercise NOW", but nothing happens. My body doesn't move. I can say it 100 times: "I'm exercising now, I'm exercising now", but I won't move. My body doesn't seem to want to respond to my commands.

And I know why: it's because there's no possibility of reward, and my body knows it. What's the point of being healthy and vivacious, if I'm never going to have a partner?

In fact, being lively and vibrant is WORSE than being numb and half-dead, because it would make me more acutely aware of the pain of not having a partner nor any hope of having one. In a way, I think my self-sabotage of my physical health is deliberate - unconsciously, but still, in a way, deliberate. I used to contemplate suicide, back in America. I've come to find out that I will never, ever, *consciously* choose to *actively* take my own life... but now it's happening *unconsciously* and *passively*, through junk food, excessive porn, and sedentaryness. I guess on some level in my mind, some part of me is trying to kill myself. I don't want to do that, but reversing course is more complicated than simply putting down a gun or backing away from a ledge. Those are simple tasks that require no willpower. Exercising and taking care of myself is much more involved, and requires exertion. I'm capable of refraining from jumping off a building, but not of motivating myself to get up and perform hard work.

I've even stopped hiking. Hiking was my main relief. If I couldn't have intimacy, I could at least get so far away from civilization and humans that I could forget about the void for a few hours. But lately, I've been staying up so late with porn, that by the time I wake up, half the day is already over (plus it takes another hour or two to get out of bed), and there's no point to hiking because I only have a few hours. I've already explored most of the trails here - the first couple of hours of each - so to encounter any new and unexplored scenery, I need to get out there in the morning - and I can't muster the will to get out before 1pm.

There's no way forward that I can think of. Intimacy is off-limits to me in this lifetime.

So... I'm very thankful to all you guys who helped me and were here for me. But I guess some cases really are beyond help.

[Mig Picante]

You're not beyond help. Pull yourself up and stop smoking weed and wanking habitually.
Mull is no good for the mind, no matter what smokers and potheads say.

A woman found you attractive. Fuck yeah!
Don't let some third world woman that stole change from you determine your self-worth. Keep going.

People will cross you and let you down all the time. It's disappointing but keep going!

[torridon747]

Bro, you're 33. Stop with this defeatist bullshit right now.

You must be pretty unattractive to have such shit experience with women. Clearly though youre attractive enough to garner attraction from some women. But there's no reason you should give up. Giving up on women at 33? Fucking what? You have plenty of time to make some loot, get plastic surgery, get shredded and slay bitches in your late 30s and 40s. All the while learning game and figuring out how not to be taken advantage of.

If you want to give up that's on you man. At this point you can't blame a shitty hand you were dealt or unfavorable circumstance, because when you discovered this forum you were shown that from here on out you were in charge of your own destiny. Stop being a chode with the "poor me" shit. Up your smv, stay healthy, fix your bad habits, get your finances straight, cultivate a style and for fucks sake use the resources available to learn more game. If you do that there is literally no chance you won't get laid semi-often. Then when you're constantly improving yourself fucking regularly, and learning how to deal with women you might just find that girl that invests in you emotionally and life will have a nice rosy tint for a while, and if you've done your due diligence you mighy just know how to handle it correctly.

[Cobra]

@ thegreenman, a piece of advice.

Your entire last posts, for that matter the remaining posts AND this thread centers around women. Your mind centers around women. Now you have experience with women including some positive ones YET you choose to focus on negative ones. As you get more experience with women, generally I would expect you pedestalize them less. However, the very strange thing about your posts is that you pedestalize them the same at the very least. That is not healthy and that is a confidence/inner game issue.

You need to relinquish the life centered around women. As you can now clearly tell, women will come. If they go, it's their loss not yours. STOP putting it pn yourself. Center your life on what you want and use women to supplement it.

[PapayaTapper]

GM

During an interview with SUCCESS magazine, world champion racing driver Mario Andretti was asked for his number one tip for success in race car driving. He said, “Don’t look at the wall. Your car goes where your eyes go.”

When newbie drivers are starting to race, this is one of the most crucial lessons that they learn. When you’re driving at 200mph you need to focus on the road in front of you. If you look at the wall, then you’ll end up hitting it! The same could be said for your life, your work, and dealing with women.

They teach the same thing to downhill skiers. Look down the slope at where you want to go...not at your skis.

Hawaiians have a saying "Think shark, see shark". You starting to see a common theme here?

It's your inner dialogue that's off...not you.


You seem to have been somewhat clear on what you want. Thats good. Thats a great first step.

What you dont have is the proper tools to effect change. Thats why youre not getting the results you want and are willing to give up after experiences with only 4 women. Thats too small a sample to draw conclusions on...especially conclusions to base life decisions on.

The good news is that today, more than ever, the tools are readily attainable.


I challenge you to invest 6.5 minutes and watch this video rather than 6.5 minutes of porn.