[Deluge]

Krauser dropped a post about the challenges of daygame today that I thought would be worth sharing.

Quote:

THE 10 INVISIBLE BARRIERS TO DAYGAME

The harsh reality of daygame is most men will never get it. That’s partly because most daygamers are an adversarially-selected bunch of weirdos (as indeed I was when I began) but mostly because it’s just an enormous ask:

Start talking to a hot young girl, who doesn’t know you, and then fuck her with nothing more than your aesthetic and charisma.

To pull that off consistently on girls younger and hotter than you is basically a super power. I’m surprised top players aren’t asked to be in the next X-Men. So while I was sitting in a cafe with Tom looking out over a nice FSU plaza, we reflected on a simple question: why aren’t more men able to pull this off?

I see all the hot girls walking around and I know that with a bit of effort I can get some of them. So that’s exactly what I do. What’s stopping all the other men doing the same? Why is it that despite hundreds of bootcamps, one-on-ones, seminars and at least a few thousand men going through the London Daygame mill I can literally count on my hands how many are good?

There are invisible barriers to daygame that aren’t mere technique and will be imperceptible to everyone below the intermediate (one lay a month from hard graft) level. These are the things that are no longer in my reality but used to be like a forcefield holding me back.

Where have all the overweight socially maladjusted men gone?
Where have all the overweight socially maladjusted men gone?

1. Sting of rejection
A girl’s reaction shouldn’t affect your sense of self. When she’s walking down the street with her headphones on and daydreaming of her next pair of shoes she’s not thinking of meeting men. Opening her well will usually shock her out of this but there will always be girls who brush you off and keep walking. Assuming she stops there’ll be girls who give you a “what do you want?” look and you can’t quite get rolling – so another rejection. Or maybe you get the compliment out and get the “thanks but no thanks”. Or you get excited with the number close and she doesn’t reply. The only two certainies in life are death and daygame blowouts. For as long as you feel the sting of it, you’ll find ways to avoid being in that position, which leads me on to……

2. Meta-weasels
…. the ego is ingenius in it’s ability to avoid damage. In addition to the usual street weasels (“she’s too hot”, “she looks busy” etc) are the lifestyle weasels that prevent you even being in a position to open a girl. Just recently Tom met a guy who appears to have the Euro-jaunt lifestyle set up but he seems to spend all day in a cafe reading books and not opening. It’s quite acceptable to go see the art gallery, the museum and the opera house on your first day but that’s it. A good daygamer is a piss-poor tourist.

You must want this more than photos outside the Opera House
You must want this more than photos outside the Opera House

3. Blowout streaks
Everyone has strings of blowouts. If you’re good-looking and confident they’ll be short strings that barely phase you but you’ll still get them. If you’re a short Indian chode opening Russian catwalk models blowouts are pretty much the only thing you’ll get. It’s quite dispiriting to have a run of good results, perhaps a few quality lays, and then suddenly every girl acts like you’ve sprayed on woman repellant. Daygame is about keeping many balls in the air simultaneously in order to pull off a magic trick. It’s so easy to drop a ball or too and then not even get a girl to stop for you. And then you’ll start doubting yourself. “Was I really any good at this? Does it even work?” The typical newbie daygamer doesn’t have the reference experiences or mental grit to push through these streaks, nor the self-diagnostics to correct whatever is causing the blowouts.

4. K-selected signals
Almost every daygamer wants to be the Nice Guy. He’s absorbed too many Disney fairytales and has turned to daygame to get the Good Girls and not those Nightclub Sluts. He’s kidding himself. The sexual market rules are always in effect. It’s always a darwinistic fight whether on the club or on the streets, and the girls are operating according to the same mating schema. Daygame is to nightgame what tennis is to squash – useless ill-coordinated slobs are going to fail in both sports. Daygame fools you into thinking you’re not in competition with all those other cool charismatic men simply because you can’t see them at that moment in time. No. Hot young girls always have options and you’d better be either (i) her best option or (ii) a side-dish she can’t otherwise get.
So drop your Disney fantasy. Daygame is dirty and animalistic.

Boyfriend material. No chance of SDL
Boyfriend material. No chance of SDL

5. Weirdness
For every cool daygamer I’ve met, I’ve met six or seven normal everyman types who have a chance to make it. For every normal guys, I’ve met a couple of weird freaks who have no chance at all. Like the LSS guy who lives in a tent in an Essex forest and has had three phone numbers in ten years – because he’s not only homeless but he looks and smells homeless. His stupid weirdo ego prevents him addressing the one obvious problem. Then there’s all the little Indian chodes asking me “how many sets I need before hot Russian girl become in my harem, Mr Krauser?” or the frame-control PUA freaks who “open” me with a Yad-Stop then completely ignore my friend while trying to get a free consultation. Just the other day I met such a guy and he had weird bug eyes and his shoulders looked like he was halfway through a shrug. He wasn’t physically deformed, just a lifetime of being weird had etches itself into his muscle memory. That can conceivably be undone but it’s a hell of a job. And until them every girl is thinking “ewwww!”

More than any other strategy, daygame is a test of how normal you are. Weirdness will always fall flat when there’s no alcohol, flashing disco lights or female super-horniness to mask it.

6. Nowhere leads
A combination of the other barriers listed here will tend to result in a guy getting phone numbers to nowhere. Now you are fully aboard the emotional rollercoaster. You get the sickening dread of approach anxiety, the euphoria of a girl hooking and chatting, then the validation of the number close, and then the dull let-down of her not responding. Inevitably you’ll obsess for days over it, trying to figure out the perfect recovery text. And finally give up. Get yourself a pile of these false leads and you’ll get into the “is daygame worth all this effort” meta-weasel.

7. Hack mentality
“Dear Tom. I love your book, perhaps I do one-on-one with you. Me your fan. Your infield very good!!!! So Mr Tom, where is easiest place to get laid?”

Everyone wants to avoid the market. Whether it’s a corporation shovelling cash in lobby groups, a feminist mandating alimony laws, an established PUA moving to “lifestle game”, or a noob looking for Pussy Paradise – the emotional driver is always the same: I don’t want to be subject to the rigours of the free market because it’s too hard / I don’t think I’ll win that competition. Combine this with the natural chode avoidance of making significant changes and you have the hack mentality.

The PUA cartel saw you coming and will sell you magic pills and 3 Secrets To Make Her Wet as long as your credit card is below it’s limit. If you’re looking to score something for nothing, you’ll end up with nothing. Daygame is hard. Very very hard.

8. Quality overreach
When you see a really hot girl with a boyfriend, have a good look at him. He’s not a short pot-bellied old man with a comb-over and ill-fitting Primark t-shirt is he? Hot girls only have sex with high value men. Now, as daygamers we are lucky that there is a carefully-honed system to deliver that value in a short space of time but….. the value has to be there. The single biggest piece of value a daygamer can have (and which at least 60% don’t have) is… a personality.

The fuck ladder is real. If you’re currently getting occasional 5s then you needn’t bother opening higher than a 6. By all means do so as an experiment in breaking limiting beliefs but know that you’ve got no hope in hell of fucking them. Go dig up a photo of the hottest girl you fucked in the last two years. That’s what you should be opening. If she’s a 5 then leave the catwalk models to the men who actually have a chance.

Good luck with that, fatso
Good luck with that, fatso

And yes, you probably bristled at the last two paragraphs. Going for turbo-hotties that blow you out is actually avoidance – you are avoiding girls you might fuck because getting blown out by the 6s is a bigger blow to your ego.

9. Spoonfeeding
The first generation of London daygamers figured it out for themselves. Tom, Jon, Antony and I were hitting the streets and trying new things. We’d experiment with how many steps to take before coming in on the front stop, what hand position, when to ask the name and so on. There wasn’t a Daygame Mastery out there for us to read so we figured it out for ourselves. That’s called self-reliance and it’s a universally attractive masculine trait. We also read whatever we could get our hands on and stripped out the goldust to incorporate into the model. At no point did we ever think somebody would just hand over the answer. That would’ve been weird.

We accepted that the world is a cold unyielding place and if we wanted to get sex, we’d better solve the problems put in our way. Now I look at some of the emails I get, or long rambling blogposts in the manosphere and it seems few people want to work for it. Wanting to be spoonfed is an entitlement mentality which will stop you improving.

10. First day abroad
Every one of the above barriers slams down hard when you try a Euro-jaunt. You’ve probably built yourself up over a few weeks while waiting for the flight date. This is it, pussy paradise, you’re gonna hit it hard. Burn the town with a crazy number farm and get some hot foreign birds! And then you arrive in your apartment, put down your suitcase and look out the window. Shit has just gotten real and all those insecurities rise up. If you’re not careful you’ll wig out and spend the whole trip buried in a cafe reading blogs.

They don't just fall into your bed
They don’t just fall into your bed

Daygame is not the easy answer to getting laid. There’s a reason more people don’t do it, and there’s a reason most people who do either give up quickly after the bootcamp honeymoon, or they are relentless weirdos who get nowhere. So when I’m sitting in a Prague pavement cafe looking at the hot teens stride past in hot pants and think “I might have a piece of that” it’s no longer a surprise to me that there’s not more men doing exactly the same.

I haven't gone out of my way to daygame since I was more or less a beginner, but when I switched from daygame to night game I noticed there were some big differences which Krauser alluded to.

1. Day time approaching is more mentally exhausting and involves more approach anxiety then even sober night game.

2. The ROI I got from daygame was much lower for local girls then at night. I don't hang out with any daygamers anymore, but when I did the only guys I knew who were getting laid regularly from it were doing so mostly from Euro tourist girls and Asian international students.

3. The dudes in my local community who ran daygame were a lot more weird and socially awkward, in fact predominately so, while night game dudes have been a lot cooler and normal. I've introduced most of the guys I night game regularly with to my broader circle of friends and brought them to parties and events (no, I don't tell people how we actually met). I never once did that with the daygamers. I think a lot of weirdo dudes are uncomfortable in clubs or busy bars, and/or they're misanthropes who hate "the type of people" who they think go out at night, so they gravitate to daygame instead.

Thoughts?

[TheFinalEpic]

Personally, I would incorporate both styles into your arsenal. Game is about being well rounded, able to pick-up a woman anytime, anywhere, under any circumstance.

Day game is a lot more "natural" in a sense, and girls like the fact that it fulfills their little fantasies about meeting a guy at a coffee shop or on the street. It makes it feel serendipitous, like we weren't expecting/planning it

There are benefits to both forms, and some of us work better in the day.

I do have to disagree with the "day game practitioners are awkward" being that in my experiences, the guys that work during the day are more socially aware and produce results during the night as well. The benefits of being sober and able to read body language have translated to a tighter overall game for myself.

[unbowed]

What can I say, the man holds no punches. I've been fiddling with direct daygame for almost a year now. The weasel excuses and blowout stings still surface but since last year I've improved on keeping things "steady as she goes." The nowhere leads still suck; lost a stack of #s the other day, which actually relieved me in a way because it's like your fridge is empty; time to stock up.

After fumbling a bunch of sets, you start building up the reference experiences which help you approach more on command. An approach is just an approach; you have to be able to disassociate your ego from the approach, whether night or day, and then later on, reflect on what you can improve. Is it a technical thing (body language, vocal tone), a lifestyle issue (money, logistics). Then you can hone in on a more fine-tuned approach, backed with more grounded confidence.

Also you don't need to daygame with other guys. If they're all a bunch of weirdos around you, just do your own thing. I think what Krauser means by weirdos is guys who are so far out of pocket that they need to dramatically fix themselves before they can interact with other people. Although I'm sure smelly, homeless guy will show up and bust out a datasheet on how to pull using a tent and a squeegee.

The hardest part is persistence. People do a few approaches, crash and burn, and then say daygame is bullshit. You need to be able to grind it out by approaching without complaint time and time again, as well as reflect on what you did and how you can improve your overall value. In a way, it's really just "game" at this point. "Day"game is a specific delivery mechanism in the day environment, but the underlying inner game mentality is the same.

Also I'm an introvert by nature so loud night game and social circle get-togethers shut me down after a while. Daygame gives me more control by putting things on my terms. I don't have to worry about some DJ's eclectic taste, cockblockers, groups of friends and all these variables that slow down my movement. To me, it's a liberating feeling to know right off the bat if you're in or not. You don't have to ease in by entertaining the group. You've bombarded her with the best value you can offer, and you get feedback right away.

As TheFinalEpic said, If you can talk to the girl in the dead of day, without the environmental pretense of "going out" at night, you'll develop a better awareness in the night setting. Can we call daygame a deeper red pill?

[Frank]

Quote:

We accepted that the world is a cold unyielding place and if we wanted to get sex, we’d better solve the problems put in our way. Now I look at some of the emails I get, or long rambling blogposts in the manosphere and it seems few people want to work for it. Wanting to be spoonfed is an entitlement mentality which will stop you improving.

So easy to fall into that mindset. With the first wave of PUA material, you had guys coming online asking simple questions. "Got number, now what do I say? Currently at bar, which drinks to buy?" Now, there's been a big shift away from that, and scripted material is only a small part of the game. So the questions people ask themselves have changed too.

I have often, in moments of self doubt, went online and spent hours reading through the 'sphere. While I was reading, the hot women went home. As I wrote threads and waited for responses asking how to game stiff German broads, more time had passed with me NOT approaching and figuring it out for myself.

edit:

"Deluge Wrote:

The dudes in my local community who ran daygame were a lot more weird and socially awkward, in fact predominately so, while night game dudes have been a lot cooler and normal. I've introduced most of the guys I night game regularly with to my broader circle of friends and brought them to parties and events (no, I don't tell people how we actually met). I never once did that with the daygamers. I think a lot of weirdo dudes are uncomfortable in clubs or busy bars, and/or they're misanthropes who hate "the type of people" who they think go out at night, so they gravitate to daygame instead.

Yeah.

If a few years ago, I'd have seen my current self going out to clubs or bars, I wouldn't have believed it. I was a big metal head (I still listen to metal, but I have no weird notions about it being "better" or anything), and I thought going to clubs was stupid, and senseless. Clubbing isn't something I love by any stretch, but I made myself more open to it, and I learned a lot. Very quickly. I haven't been in a long time, but now that I've cut back on drinking, I think I will make more progress.

Anyway...

"Weirdos" should probably put themselves in increasingly uncomfortable night game situations and learn to be social through that.

[Deluge]

(05-12-2014 10:54 PM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  

Day game is a lot more "natural" in a sense, and girls like the fact that it fulfills their little fantasies about meeting a guy at a coffee shop or on the street. It makes it feel serendipitous, like we weren't expecting/planning it

Krauser is a direct daygamer so keep that context in mind when you consider his points and mine. Personally I'm a big fan of approaching girls I came across during day to day life indirect especially on campus, but what we're talking about here predominately relates to going into a city centre or high traffic area and devoting a few hours to direct daygame, often with guys off local PUA forums. There's a big culture around that in my city, and London (where Krauser's based) is particularly famous for that. I have no beef with direct daygame itself, but the culture surrounding it in my city and it seems London and other places too is pretty whack. There are actually more guys out there running this kind of game then there are players in the "manosphere", although less then the amount of guys big on RSD and it's high energy club game.

[JWLZG]

The list doesn't bullshit. I know in my case, 1., 2., 3. and 10. have been major Achilles heels for me. It's taken a while to get over rationalising the whole gamut of "Will she find she attractive/funny/engaging/sexy enough"; "Forget it, she's probably got a boyfriend"; "she's not showing enough interest"; "Will she think I'm taking advantage of the (indirect) situation)" etc. etc. quandaries and I'd be lying to myself in saying they still don't plague me from time to time.

Universally, I don't approach anyone below a 6 so that may have worked against my favour insofar as feeding back into approach anxiety. I still get warm receptions so I'm clearly not that ugly or I'm managing to communicate enough value.

Tellingly, in all my daygame approaches that have gone well, I've failed to number-close due to cold feet on my part -- one might more critically call it betaness.
The last number-close I attempted (at a house party; a 30th) I was told "Sorry, I've got a boyfriend" despite excusing herself by repeating "you're really cool though...you give off a sexy vibe". It is easy for your motivation to be shot down after such a warm approach going south, in nightgame of all places.

(05-12-2014 08:45 PM)Deluge Wrote:  

1. Day time approaching is more mentally exhausting and involves more approach anxiety then even sober night game.

Festivals are a notable exception, but for the purposes of daygame we should perhaps discount that due to the far more open and promiscuous nature prevalent there that really facilitates -- not to mention normalises -- approaches. You will have people rationalising that it happens 'in the spirit of the event' but the fact is they do cut through a lot of the approach anxiety.

(05-12-2014 10:54 PM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  

I do have to disagree with the "day game practitioners are awkward" being that in my experiences, the guys that work during the day are more socially aware and produce results during the night as well. The benefits of being sober and able to read body language have translated to a tighter overall game for myself.

(05-13-2014 02:04 AM)Frank Wrote:  

"Deluge Wrote:

The dudes in my local community who ran daygame were a lot more weird and socially awkward, in fact predominately so, while night game dudes have been a lot cooler and normal. I've introduced most of the guys I night game regularly with to my broader circle of friends and brought them to parties and events (no, I don't tell people how we actually met). I never once did that with the daygamers. I think a lot of weirdo dudes are uncomfortable in clubs or busy bars, and/or they're misanthropes who hate "the type of people" who they think go out at night, so they gravitate to daygame instead.

Yeah.

If a few years ago, I'd have seen my current self going out to clubs or bars, I wouldn't have believed it. I was a big metal head (I still listen to metal, but I have no weird notions about it being "better" or anything), and I thought going to clubs was stupid, and senseless. Clubbing isn't something I love by any stretch, but I made myself more open to it, and I learned a lot. Very quickly. I haven't been in a long time, but now that I've cut back on drinking, I think I will make more progress.

Anyway...

"Weirdos" should probably put themselves in increasingly uncomfortable night game situations and learn to be social through that.

This is something that strikes a chord as I can relate in coming from a more "weird, socially awkward" background. My theory night game dudes are cooler and normal because they had the sort of social milieu to come across as naturals - or vice-versa. If your line of work/course of study precludes access to (quality) women -- e.g. Electrical/mechanical engineering, Comp Sci, pure maths -- or you had domineering and conservative parental figures, chances are you're more likely to fit the socially autistic bill. The corollary being that daygame really circumvents the sausagefest that your social circle is more likely to be.

I'd more draw a causal link that daygame is in fact a means via which originally awkward types are able to refine and tighten their game. This consequently lends itself to reinforcing night game -- I can identify with Frank's nightclub experiences.

I'm sure I'm not the only one in saying that I wouldn't necessarily like to pigeonhole myself into either the day- or nightgame dichotomies. Sure I've traditionally not been a clubs person but I've worked nightlife on and off over 3 years and I'm more comfortable in cocktail events, warehouse- and house parties. Then again I find the latter events to be a better way to broaden my social circle and the intellectual types I do well with tend to gravitate to those anyway.

[RexImperator]

This is a pretty good list. I struggle with a bunch of these, but it's good to know that's to be expected.

[Kaizen]

Great post.

Krauser has clearly made the painful climb up the mountain top.

A good article to come back to for anyone wishing to get into day game.

[kavakid]

I think that daygame is to nightgame, what doing drills 6 hours a day is to showing up just for the ballgame.

Daygame is like in Matrix when Keanu reeves and Morpheus went into the white space to do training. They were able to focus on just the most basic elements. In daygame you have a lot more control over the interaction. Usually the girl is by herself and there won't be interruptions. The drawback is that if your game is weak, it will show up because there is nowhere to hide. The advantage is that the sky is the limit as any girl, anywhere, anytime is available. I think every guy should at least be able to start a chat with a girl he finds cute.

I usually use simple elderly game:

1. "Excuse me, is there a _____ in the area" (reggae club, organic grocery store, etc). I like this because it works even if there are people listening. Whereas going too direct might be TOO uncomfortable in some situations. Plus I think going direct too early can take away the mystery. I am going to experiment with going direct during the conversation.

2. As the girl is talking or thinking I will usually ask her something about whether she even knows the area well.

3. If she seems receptive I will then ask her how long she has been living here, or what her favorite place is (related to what I originally asked her about).

4. I will continue the conversation into a natural state asking questions about her life, studies, etc.. If she doesn't ask me questions at all, I will usually bail, or ask her if she needs to go. I don't want numbers from girls that don't want to give them to me.

5. I will ask her if she wants to stay in touch with me. Or I will say 'we should stay in touch" and gauge her reaction. Again, if it's a bad reaction then I won't ask for her number usually.

6. I think that it's good to either push for the instantdate (even if it's just a few minutes walking down the grocery aisle) or call her on the phone (not text). To meet a girl, never walk with her anywhere, and then text her 2 days later is too abstract for many girls I think.

My confession: my actual lays with daygame have been almost entirely overseas. Though I can easily US phone numbers in the day (2 solid ones today actually).

PS Anyone else think that bouncing a girl from the aisles of a Target to the in-store starbucks for instadate is the ideal setup?

[Akula]

Great post - Krauser has spelled it out for us yet again.

Day game is HARD and I'm not suprised that most guys don't get involved. The reality is that most guys in the west either aren't getting laid at all or jus settle for whatever comes along once or twice a year (if that).

[bojangles]

I agree Akula, daygame is tough even guys I've taught daygame to have settled for the first or second girl that they bag. Krauser runs the whole gambit from selecting targets to closing and then starting all over again. Some days it feels like a grind, other days things just fall into place.

[Deluge]

(09-04-2014 04:34 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

I agree Akula, daygame is tough even guys I've taught daygame to have settled for the first or second girl that they bag.

This is a problem I've noticed with the pickup scene in general. At any one time the bulk of guys are actually newbies, because a lot of the guys who actually make it to the intermediate stage end up LTR'ing the first decent girl they can. It's worst among daygamers especially, they bang less girls from it but the ones they do get are a little less likely to be sluts, and perhaps daygamers aren't so drawn to being players in the first place. At the end of the day what most guys who get into game are really looking for is a girlfriend. Unfortunately most sell themselves short compared to what they could've have gotten if they'd stuck with it for longer.

[The Beast1]

Hahaha he pegged me 100%. I got tired of the rejections, effort, texting, dating, and the like. I just focused on lifestyle game, hitting the gym, getting better at who I am, etc.

My days of spam approaching both during the day and night are over. I don't have the energy or care to amass more than my modest 36 notches.

[kavakid]

For a person to become a real Veteran PUA, either:

1. They have an insane libido to be with constantly new women.

2. They get addicted to the game, or see it as a respectable art form.

I think that I am personally a little bit of 1 and 2. Once I got over the learning curve, it becomes kindof fun, like playing the guitar. And as Roosh himself points out, it's one of the few seriously challenging things a man can do in this modern age. I think I like the black and white of it. Either I am getting laid with new girls regularly or not. Failure HURTS. With my music and art, failure doesn't hurt. And success is not black and white the way it is with PU. I think getting a master's degree or earning six figures is probably a lot easier for most guys than becoming a true PUA.

I think girls know this and is probably why the PUA can get the girl that the doctor can't. The skills that PU teaches have been inherent to human survival for thousands of years. Whereas knowing how to be a day trader haven't.

I also like the fact that everything else in my life seems so freakin EASY compared to PU. Job interviews, relocating to a new city. Making new friends. Starting a new career. The only thing I can think of that's remotely as difficult for me would be building muscle. And really that's easy too compared to mastering PU.

Getting a degree or career is hard work, yes. But becoming a master PUA is hard work AND your ego basically has to die. I think PU is the closet thing we can experience to dying in a way. It's transcendental.

[void]

He didn't talk about logistics. In London it doesn't matter if you open 100 girls a week. In fuck town it does. I am in a new "small" town at this moment and I start to recognize people I saw at night during the day just after a few weeks. "Sarging" always has and at the moment, seems out of question to me. The only chance I see is elderly day game like Roosh does.

[Akula]

^^^

He's regularly going to 'smaller' EE locations like Prague, Croatia and Serbia & starting from scratch so it's not just a "London day gaming with great logistics" kinda thing. He also doesn't do night game so there's not as much of an issue with being known at all the clubs after awhile. But I can see it being an issue if you were in a town of say less than 200,000 people. I don't think anyone is advising trying to work really smaller towns for the most part i.e. gaming Zanesville, OH just will never have as many 8s and 9s as EE and you'll stand out more after a few weeks/months.

[Dalaran1991]

(09-04-2014 04:54 AM)Deluge Wrote:  

(09-04-2014 04:34 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

I agree Akula, daygame is tough even guys I've taught daygame to have settled for the first or second girl that they bag.

This is a problem I've noticed with the pickup scene in general. At any one time the bulk of guys are actually newbies, because a lot of the guys who actually make it to the intermediate stage end up LTR'ing the first decent girl they can. It's worst among daygamers especially, they bang less girls from it but the ones they do get are a little less likely to be sluts, and perhaps daygamers aren't so drawn to being players in the first place. At the end of the day what most guys who get into game are really looking for is a girlfriend. Unfortunately most sell themselves short compared to what they could've have gotten if they'd stuck with it for longer.

Im guilty. I settled with the third girl that I found to be a real sweetheart since getting into game. So far she has given me no reason to leave her.

Although I still yearn for new pussies and still turn my head when a hot 9 walk past me and my girlfriend, Im quite happy. Ive been in the game so I know the shitstorm of rejection, flake and headaches that go with it.

I still practice game whenever I can, bc a day will come when I will have to plow the field again, and my game will get rusty if I dont keep honing it.

[kavakid]

@Dalaran.

I'm trying to do polyamory game. See if your girl would be up for a threesome with another chick. I kick myself when I think of all the possibilities I missed when I was in my LTRs. You can have your cake and eat it too. Or should I say you can have your pussy and eat others too?

[TheSlayer]

(09-04-2014 04:54 AM)Deluge Wrote:  

At the end of the day what most guys who get into game are really looking for is a girlfriend. Unfortunately most sell themselves short compared to what they could've have gotten if they'd stuck with it for longer.

This is incredibly true. Most guys want GFs and stable relationships. Even guys around me who are not into 'game' want GFs and a couple of my close friends have already been with their girls for 5+ years (all in their mid-20s). The 2 or 3 guys who know about game have also been in steady LTRs. In fact there is only one friend I have who is like me and constantly looking for new girls and doesn't want a relationship. It's very logical that most guys getting into game are only looking for GFs and once they find a half-decent girl they settle down and never advance their game all that much.

[Dusty]

(09-05-2014 12:07 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

(09-04-2014 04:54 AM)Deluge Wrote:  

At the end of the day what most guys who get into game are really looking for is a girlfriend. Unfortunately most sell themselves short compared to what they could've have gotten if they'd stuck with it for longer.

This is incredibly true. Most guys want GFs and stable relationships. Even guys around me who are not into 'game' want GFs and a couple of my close friends have already been with their girls for 5+ years (all in their mid-20s). The 2 or 3 guys who know about game have also been in steady LTRs. In fact there is only one friend I have who is like me and constantly looking for new girls and doesn't want a relationship. It's very logical that most guys getting into game are only looking for GFs and once they find a half-decent girl they settle down and never advance their game all that much.

The main reason people settle down into LTRs or marriage is they get tired of the frustrations inherent in chasing tail.

Maybe that's why nature made women so capricious. If they were predictable and reliable and we could all get lots of strange with little or no frustrations, who would ever settle down?

[XXL]

It would be good read if there were practical solutions to every barrier there is followed by engaging "call to action" message for readers to try it out and report back. Right now it's just another "dark reality of the game" post addressing different obstacles. It reminds me all those "10 things to avoid" from mainstream press like men's health or FHM

Besides that, cold approach game is not hard, it's just super RANDOM. Random people meeting each other at random situations and all of them are outside for a reason. Meeting someone in daytime is like a clash of two worlds, yours and hers. That's why it is hard, not because girls wait there for us to be picked up and then play games with us for their own amusement like a cruel little bitches.

Torero said once, "game is just turning stones" and I fully agree with him. Once you accept that you have no direct control to make random girls like you asap you will relax and be free from this "it's so hard out there for a player" mindset.

[TheSlayer]

(09-05-2014 12:19 PM)Dusty Wrote:  

The main reason people settle down into LTRs or marriage is they get tired of the frustrations inherent in chasing tail.

Maybe that's why nature made women so capricious. If they were predictable and reliable and we could all get lots of strange with little or no frustrations, who would ever settle down?

Yeah, I get that but to be in a 5+ years relationship already in your mid-20s is unfathomable to me especially when the girl is a 6 at best and you are pretty much married to her living together. Settle down sure, but damn. Look around a little bit man. I would totally understand guys exploring in their early to mid-20s and then settling down but you meeting a girl at 19 or 20 and then settling down with her is absolutely idiotic and also unfair to yourself.

[Nomad77]

It's the same reason more men aren't rich. I believe the primary reason more men are not good at anytime is simply a lack of desire. To be good at anything requires a lot of hard, consistent work. You have to got to really want the result of all of that hard work to find the motivation to do it. And this is my problem. It's not a lack of gaming skill it's a lack of desire. When I encounter a girl that I really want and she's available there is a very high probably of getting her. But it's not often that I come across a girl that really fuels my desire. Guys like Krauser and Roosh are not driven by great sex they are driven to prove to the world that they can get women. The drive, desire comes from a deep wound that has never healed. Nothing of greatness was ever achieved without a burning and lasting desire to do so - for whatever reason.

PS If I knew with a 80% certainty that the girls I went after would be good in bed or great to hang out with. I would be out there every week working hard but it's difficult to find the motivation to do so when you know the probability of finding one of these girls in Miami is low. Basically, as I said before, for me in Miami the juice usually isn't worth the squeeze.

[unbowed]

(09-05-2014 12:24 PM)XXL Wrote:  

Besides that, cold approach game is not hard, it's just super RANDOM. Random people meeting each other at random situations and all of them are outside for a reason. Meeting someone in daytime is like a clash of two worlds, yours and hers. That's why it is hard, not because girls wait there for us to be picked up and then play games with us for their own amusement like a cruel little bitches.

I like this mentality a lot. Girls love random. When I open a girl and preface with "I know this is random but..." she'll usually listen.

I find it useful for a daygamer to focus on two things during his journeys after getting some hours logged in: expectation and vibe.

Whatever form of game a guy uses, when he discovers a novel method, he wants to believe that it's an easier ROI than what he's already tried. That's fine. Men work to be lazy, that's why the wheel and computer macros were made.

I think the most unique polarizing aspect of daygame is there's no excuse. You can drop out of the game to build a lifestyle "for you". You can get drunk and have fun at a club and dance "for you". But what can daygame do "for you"? You can cloak it in running errands. You can tell yourself "I'll approach if it's on my way". Maybe daygame can weasel for you:

Daygame is the ultimate freedom. No one's holding your hand, no one has any expectation that you need to have fun, there's no to-do list that comes with the territory. It's just you looking at fear and rejection in the eye. You make every effort along the way. You need to understand the logic while being able to free flow out of it at a moment's notice.

While at night you and the girl can let the environment help you lead ("this is fun, we're drunk on a nice couch groping each other in 2 minutes"), in the day you will get more upfront resistance. Your mind doesn't want to plow through all this and wants to revert back to safe logic. You need to balance enjoying the moment while being mindful of her reaction.

I used to think a girl was hitting me with these 'shittests' by not complying but then I realized she doesn't know what the hell to do. It's not a club, it's 4pm. She has to go, she has a life and you're randomly entering it, so the onus is on you. And even if you give it your best, there's no guarantee. Oh well, there goes another one.

"Game", "self dev", "lifestyle management" or whatever men do to give them purpose and have pussy around them requires time and effort. I think long-term daygame appeals to guys with certain characteristics: introspective, sociable, determined, flexible, good runner (maybe).

Looking at the bottom right of my Mastery copy are the words "Sigma Wolf. Predatory. Precise. Perfected." A sigma genuinely doesn't worry about social hierarchy and won't ask himself "what will those people think?" A wolf prowls for flesh. He's not going to meet the girl of his dreams, he's going stock up. The whole process has a logic to it and is only understood through practice by understanding fundamentals and then playing with them through flow and fun.

Guys think of daygame as an environmental thing, and while it is, the attitude is what carries it. On my "on" days I feel like I'm on fire. My "off" days make me feel like I never heard of any of this stuff ever. Unlike in a nightclub where last call changes everything, daygame can feel like it goes on forever so you have to be your own boss. It's ok to not open every single set in existence. But if you're taking a 5 hour break when you feel like meeting a girl, you should ask yourself what you really want. Is that girl really a bitch? She hasn't done anything yet. We need to examine our thoughts honestly.

(09-05-2014 05:06 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

PS If I knew with a 80% certainty that the girls I went after would be good in bed or great to hang out with. I would be out there every week working hard but it's difficult to find the motivation to do so when you know the probability of finding one of these girls in Miami is low. Basically, as I said before, for me in Miami the juice usually isn't worth the squeeze.

Nomad, curious how much have you daygamed in Miami? I hear the nightlife there is very superficial and cutthroat. But how many of these guys are approaching smoothly in the day? What about sniping the girls before they get to the club? I've met Eastern and Northern European girls here and abroad who prefer going to Miami over NYC. Have you tried approaching them?

My mentality has been developing into little to no expectation. I can just as easily leave as I open. If I see a girl I like, I go see what the deal is. Only after I talk to her can I get an inkling into her world.

For example I stopped a bitchy looking girl last week. We ended up going out and she told me "I'm usually a total bitch to strangers, I think I even gave you a bitch face, but after you came up to me I realized this is cool. You took me out of my element and I liked that". I wish all the girls said that but my point is, minimize your approach checklists and just approach.

I don't focus on her availability (unless a guy's literally walking by her), if she's fun or a good conversationalist. All I can do is make an aesthetic judgment and tease the rest out. Rinse, repeat. The less you think about it and put pressure on the situation, the easier it starts to appear. Some people play candy crush to pass the time; I prefer flip the stone.

/occasional mental masturbation

[Nomad77]

There two kinds of girls in Miami: tourist and locals. The tourist are rarely by themselves, usually with one or two friends. You really have to build a strong connection to get her to leave her friends. It's much easier to get her to go out in a group but then you need wing men and have to deal with the complications of that. Once a girl has been living here for more than a year, she becomes just like the girls here, in one word: nutty/neurotic. Then you are dealing with them and their craziness.

I primarily day game and for me it's easy. I just do it wherever I happen to be. My biggest problem is that I usually approach high value girls 7.5+. These girls are far more likely to be married or in LTR than girls in the 5 - 7 range. When I go down the range I face the problem of the girls not believing that I am really interested in them. Also, since a lot of the girls here are Latin, they are not really into my look so that's another strike against me. I was recently in Portland. If I was living there I would have a nice harem going in one month flat!