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04-27-2014, 02:17 PM
His book is full of sentiment along the lines of "when I started to be honest with women and opening up to them, the quality of the women I dated went up."
I'm saying that Manson isn't real with his audience about the hard knocks, like Roosh, Roissy or say MikeCF (who does more non-game material).
You could say Manson's material is more suited to quality girls, but if I only pursued quality girls, whatever that means, I'd be getting a lot less sex.
Be fluid. Manson's approach definitely has value, but it must be deployed selectively to maximize its value. If you have a low libido or a very low tolerance for women lacking integrity, sure, go the Manson route. Maybe I'll change my mind down the line.
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04-27-2014, 03:26 PM
What Mark Manson has to offer isn't for everyone.
It's seriously weapons-grade life empowerment stuff. But you have to be a black belt of your own brain-fu in order to make use of it. If you're a guy who's struggling with confidence, still stuttering in conversations, whatever - you need the lower-level stuff. You need to go through the motions first. As Bruce Lee said, 'I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks, but the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.'
And second, it's probably better for initiating healthy long-term relationships than for cycling through a bunch of one nighters.
The biggest breakthrough in the book for me was changing my perspective away from 'how do I con a girl into sleeping with me' and into 'how can I be attractive, and communicate it'. Once I understood that, it was a huge turning point.
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The Wroclaw Gambit II: Dzięki Bogu - as I prepare to emigrate to Poland.
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04-28-2014, 07:38 PM
Honestly was ready to buy this book.
However, after reading some of the comments here, I'm gonna pass.
I consider myself a beginner so I'll stick to basic game stuff atleast for now.
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04-28-2014, 10:40 PM
Great thread guys. A lot of forums don't have this kind of high level analysis by guys that actually get their dick wet.
My take on Manson - He made his bones in big city that was part college town and moderately international. He had access to a Day Game spot that ALL visiting foreign girls hit as soon as they got to the city (a spot he himself described as one of the best in the US). When he aged out of the college scene (and the never ending stream of hot ass coeds to the city), he just straight up left for greener pastures. They call that "voting with your feet".
He says stuff that we WANT to be true. We wish it were true. But if it were true, this forum would likely not exist.
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05-03-2014, 01:29 PM
I never understood the 'honesty' or 'vulnerability' as being pussy with your emotions, never lying etc, but being direct and firm with your intentions, giving chicks a chance to reject you. After the approach phase, showing intention(either through words or actions) is the next big obstacle where many struggle. Models gave me a little bit of more balls(maybe 5% more!) which I am grateful for.
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05-03-2014, 08:21 PM
"I wonder how many guys read the book and actually applied the principles consistently instead of giving up the first time they got blown out by a needy/narcissistic girl."
Maybe you should check out Roosh's Why Can't I use A Smiley Face. Roosh describes the deadness of modern Western women. With a state like that, opening up to a girl in earnest, just strikes me as futile, even self destructive.
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05-04-2014, 01:14 PM
I have downloaded this, and will see...
Western women are fucked though, so I don't hold out much hope... but when I travel that is restored by other women out of US and UK
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05-08-2014, 12:03 PM
Opening up to a woman too much is like a woman putting out on the first date. Make her work to get to know you and you will be rewarded.
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05-12-2014, 04:47 PM
A lot of this pickup information is written first with a personal style in mind, and then trying to translate it to as many men as possible.
I take everything I read with a grain of salt and as Roosh says in "Bang," practice many different methods and see what truly works for me. There is something to be said for studying many methods and incorporating what works into your own game, making it nearly bulletproof.
That being said, I enjoyed Models, and Mark Manson has some solid points about being honest, setting your intentions on the table, and arousing a woman with the fact that you do in fact want to have sex with her. All of which I have incorporated to some degree of success.
Nothing better than learning in the field and grinding it out until you find what works.
"Money over bitches, nigga stick to the script." - Jay-Z
They gonna love me for my ambition.
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06-13-2014, 02:40 PM
Quote: (04-20-2014 01:14 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:
The perfect player is an effortless liar in all that comes to fact but who is emotionally honest or "present". That does not mean someone who is "emotional" in the conventional sense -- very often the basic emotional state of a man is a vast indifference. Betas hide their indifference; alphas and naturals are shameless and let it show. Betas also hide their enthusiasms when they do strike them; alphas and naturals always display them.
When a woman tells a guy "just be yourself" she means it -- women are horrified and fascinated by men who are relaxed enough to be emotionally honest in every context. Very few men are. Women are shameless liars, but men are usually uptight and emotionally dishonest because they are ashamed both of their basic cool indifference and their occasional hot enthusiasms.
best advice i've read on this forum.
its the secret sauce to all my game..being present. soaking it in, observing her, observing yourself, being in touch with what you want and expressing it in a non creepy way.
women who aren't able to deal with themselves wont be able to handle this approach though. they'll call you 'too intense' or ask 'why are you looking at me all the time'
just let it be a filter to get rid of them anyway. they are scatter brained and unable to think.
eye contact lets them know you are present and observing them as well as contemplating your own thoughts.
it also offers an instant intimacy.
its been the center piece of all the lays i've ever had since i can remember. and thinking about before i was aware of this, it was there too...its what got me laid before i knew what i was doing.
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06-13-2014, 02:47 PM
Quote: (05-12-2014 12:36 PM)Sugar Wrote:
I can't defend the Americunt. I won't. But it's a facade. It's not real. It's a front they use to weed out betas, and guys without confidence, and unattractive men. If you're attractive (vs. 'doing attraction') it won't phase you.
--snip--
I don't think of honesty and openness as earnestness. That was not my takeaway. I think it's about when you're confident it's nothing to make the first move, or to share something about yourself. Not some emotional sappy BS, just something. By being open, that confidence and leadership inspires openness in others. The belief system that the girls are emotionally dead is a cop out, and not real, and will hurt your progress more than do you good.
Excellent observations and reply. I'm pretty much open right away as soon as interest is observed by the other party. being confident enough to share (just about) anything is extremely effective. but, and this is a big but, you have to already be projecting confidence and 'alpha' in other ways that are just felt and accepted by the woman. then you become the perfect balance. if you're not, then you are just kinda weird and pathetic.
i dont experience the americunt. i've been in establishments where people have written about how cunty the women are, and have had no issues at all. exact opposite really. as someone said, if everyone you meet is an asshole, you must be the asshole. come across confident and respectful and you'll largely get it back in return.
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06-14-2014, 03:50 PM
Emotional honesty is good and necessary. Like it or not, the fact that you approach her indicates that you're interested in her. I don't want to get into the "direct vs. indirect" pissing match, because it's really not worth the time. I have my opinion, and I don't believe that arguing about it is worth the time or energy.
I will say, while I did like the book, I have a few qualms with it. First, it's redundant. There are sections of it that are restatements of other sections. Second, while he talks a lot about "vulnerability," it isn't actually defined, as far as I can remember. Third, rejection is not (always) incompatibility. I've approached a girl one night and gotten nowhere. I approached her a week later and had a good interaction with her.
Just because you got rejected doesn't mean that you're incompatible with her. There are literally hundreds of reasons why you get rejected, and only one of them is incompatibility.
I also think that he really overstates what "performance" is. I don't believe that back and forth banter with a woman is performing, and I actually think that his thing about a woman who enjoys banter being manipulative is wrong. In terms of "shit tests," I think they're misinterpreted. Most "shit testing" is normal behavior, and perfectly normal women do it as a natural defense. It's their form of qualification.
Personally, I find that the more I work on becoming attractive, the less "shit testing" I have to deal with. It may simply be that I don't notice it, or maybe I simply don't get it as much. Either way, you would be surprised what looking her in the eye, standing up straight, and having enough balls to tease her does.
Finally, I think that he artificially depresses his success rate by the way he tells men to approach. Personally, I don't believe that "I think you're beautiful, how about a date?" is going to work with women who aren't already attracted to you. Although he talks about "polarization," I believe that standard day game models (see Krauser's Daygame Nitro) are good in terms of polarization.
However, I really think the inner game, True Confidence, body language, and outer game parts are good, as is the demographics portion. Thoughts do have an impact on reality, whether or not some people want to accept that is their business. Overall, this book isn't really for people who are just starting out, in my opinion. There are better books out there for that. This book is good for developing the correct inner game.
I would say 7.5-8/10. It's better than a lot of stuff out there, but I think there are some limiting factors.
If you're not fucking her, someone else is.
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06-14-2014, 04:31 PM
I think the book is worth reading but over time my tolerance for Manson has declined a lot and I'm considering Models more like a stepping-stone book that you discard after absorbing the few key ideas. As a practical guide it is utterly hopeless - it's just blind filtering for strong Yes Girls. The actual game advice is worse than useless and will retard the development of a noob who hasn't already begun to get laid.
The value of Models is in the meta-level and not taking shit. There are a handful of very good ideas/frames in there which have definitely helped me...... because I knew enough to discard his feelgood pablum. Be very wary of the Purple Pill content, though.
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06-14-2014, 04:34 PM
Quote: (06-14-2014 04:31 PM)Krauser Wrote:
I think the book is worth reading but over time my tolerance for Manson has declined a lot and I'm considering Models more like a stepping-stone book that you discard after absorbing the few key ideas. As a practical guide it is utterly hopeless - it's just blind filtering for strong Yes Girls. The actual game advice is worse than useless and will retard the development of a noob who hasn't already begun to get laid.
The value of Models is in the meta-level and not taking shit. There are a handful of very good ideas/frames in there which have definitely helped me...... because I knew enough to discard his feelgood pablum. Be very wary of the Purple Pill content, though.
Can you expand on what you consider to be "feelgood pablum?"
If you're not fucking her, someone else is.
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06-16-2014, 05:52 PM
I perused his forum and page briefly and I quickly got the sense that his site catered to men who were dissatisfied with their sex life, but are hesitant to have any beliefs or practices that would fall afoul of some corporate HR manager's dictates, or that of a garden variety white American career woman. These are men that want pussy, preferably monogamous long term pussy, but without taking on any socially dangerous ideas.
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06-16-2014, 06:08 PM
Quote: (06-16-2014 06:01 PM)MikeCF Wrote:
That is the trick.
This thread was started by someone who is likely on his payroll.
That is what those Internet Marketers do. They post threads like this knowing that 90% of us know that the book is full of shit.
But then they ensnare enough people into reading/buying the book.
I reported the guy who started this thread as spam.
All he said was, "I agree with 90% of book."
That's a garbage post. Post a full review.
Most likely this thread was started by a person on the payroll.
Its also recommended by most of reddits r/seduction(more so than any other book). Do you think the mods were probably paid off?