[WestCoast]

Yeah I guess I don't really care too much anymore. Apathetic if you will.

If I want to bang a good looking girl I just pick up my phone and tell her to come over because over the course of time, by simply talking to chicks in your day to day life your game is gonna get good enough.

If she flips her shit and I have a harem collapse etc, I know I will find another girl who looks just like her in a month or so, not really worried about it.

Treating game like war = nuts to me.

On that same point doesn't treating game like war imply you're going to get paved? Ie your game isn't good enough?

I have taken a full month or two off of no game (just a temp girlfriend) and I just went back into it. Rust wore off in like 3 weeks and I was back to my old self again.

If soup can fuck 60 chicks in a year I highly doubt his game is going to "go away" if he took a week off to hang out on the beach and take up scuba diving.

[soup]

McQueen, you are crazy and selfishly poor if you'd spend more than five minutes of your life time on those girls when you could obviously be working on a spreadsheet.

And don't get all cheeky and tell us you were working on spreading a different type of sheet .

[Atlantic]

What made it all click for me was Hooligan Harrys post from a while back. At the time it blew my mind. Now it seems so common sense since I instantly started to implement it and see the results for myself.

Just this weekend gone by I took time off work to fly to the states to party. I banged two girls out of the three nights I went out. The other night I focused more on the people who were out partying (very high value and great business contacts) but I still got a few numbers and these girls are going to fly over to meet me during the summer. A few years back I would not have had access to the places I partied (can't drop names but very high value people) but now that I have worked on my lifestyle and myself I can be at home in these environments and make great connections.

My friend who is similar to me got offered two jobs because he has also worked on his lifestyle and business skills to a point where he is high value. By being congruent in this environment and working on himself he is now also naturally good at game with just a few little pointers.

I know I could pull more if I worked less and travelled more but I enjoy the challenge of growing a business so much more. I think the lifestyle/game debate is similar to gym/diet - they are complimentary if done in the correct amounts. That said I agree with Westcoast that I would prefer to be able to help people out in a few years and be financially stable rather then have gotten those extra few notches.

If I had a friend who was trying to debate the lifestyle/money/game balance this is what I would send them:

Hooligan Harry -

Quote:

There are no real strategies mate. Im a busy guy and I make women fit into my schedule everywhere. They accompany me somewhere or they meet me somewhere and I dont budge on it. I will not go out of my way for a piece of ass.

I dont act on game principles, I try to live them. Instead of not phoning for 2.7 days, I dont phone because I was actually too busy. I dont act desperate because I actually am fucking other women already. I dont have routines used to DHV or any of that PUA shit, I am high value. I dont feign confidence, I am confident.

I see a good looking woman and the opportunity is there Ill approach. I have to because I dont WANT to hit up bars and clubs 3-4 nights a week. I approach everywhere. On the street, in a mall, she could be the checkout girl. I dont give a fuck about the environment nor do I have any 10 point bullet point list that I work through. Half the time I fuck it up and it does not even bother me anymore.

Let me ask you something. Where do the hottest women tend to hang? At the dive bars and budget malls or the upmarket venues and upmarket malls? There is a reason why they spend time there and its not to land rich whales. Women like opulence and even if they are broke themselves they like to spend time in places and venues that make them feel classy. I already spend time in these places and its normal for me to be there.

But here is where its different and Ill give you a typical working example for me. I phone the bitch and I find out what area she is working in or lives in. Next time I am in her area we catch up. Im the one setting the schedule and she has to be flexible because I have one hour, two max per week for her tops maybe. So from day 1 she is meeting where I want to meet and she is doing it when I wanted to. If she did not agree to that I move on because her interest would be too low. I seriously fit her in between meetings and clients always take priority.

Ill meet the chick, see how things go and then move onto phase 2 which is getting her out. Either she meets me again at a venue I decide on (chances are Im already headed out there with friends) or I do the "beta" dinner date right after work. I plow her full of booze and then go for the bang.

The difference is that what led up to that point was anything but "beta". And the places I told her she had to meet me were already upmarket. And I had nothing invested in the interaction, I am already fucking and she is a bonus. And again, contrary to all the advice thrown around, I pay for the entire thing. Not to impress her, but because I invited her there, and its no big deal. When you throw out 200 bucks on lunch only to cut it short or be taking calls in the middle of it, she thinks this shit is as normal to you as wiping your ass.

Then she sees you climb into a sports car and you can bet your ass there are going to be SMS and phone calls within 24 hours tops. They think its their Cinderella moment OR they are used to it and they expect this which means I match her laundry list.

This is amplified when I am abroad. Be it for holiday or work. When I am working I need to eat at night dont I? I have no social circle for the weekends I am there so I need to pass the time dont I? If I am not a local but I am still eating in places she has only read about or walked past, I am already approaching the category of once in a lifetime for her.

Ill repeat it again. You dont need money to get laid and I am not saying that. But anyone with money, who never had any before, will attest to the fact that it makes a massive difference and life is a hell of a lot easier. I have accepted that now and I am OK with it. The other thing to note is that my behaviour is congruent. She assumes everything, I never brag or beat or my chest. It would be hard to fake what I am doing and women see that immediately. The response is noticeable and its very, VERY favourable.

[soup]

Rich guys can always buy tucchus if they need it.

[WestCoast]

Quote:

It would be hard to fake what I am doing and women see that immediately.

Yep. He is the best poster we ever had (opinion). That post is spot on everyone in the game knows you don't need money to get laid as he noted in the post.

He changed my life as well. In a different way though.

Ideally you can get to that level but once you're near you change.

You on the inside you are not the same anymore.

You don't give a flying fuck if some dude is banging a 10/10 model type or 90 chicks a year.

You are happy for them. You simply don't think it's that big of a deal it is believable to you because you've already seen it. You don't see me ever doubting someone's notch count or bank account, I already know based on how they type and will make personal call outs accordingly.

Then.... Only then... people begin to wonder.

They ask questions.

Why doesn't he give a fuck? Why isn't he so aggressively competitive for me? Why isn't he answering my calls? Why is he never in my city?

They know.

You're not using tactics. You become.

[Atlantic]

Westcoast - a question about your ability to make snapshots based on peoples typing (you say that a bit):

My typing is not the best and I feel it lets down the level I think at. Are you looking at the use of words and lexicon or are you looking at the mindsets and ideas (scarcity vs. abundance mindset)?

I wouldn't mind an analysis of my writing to demonstrate where you think I am at.

[Christian McQueen]

The irony is no one is arguing to ignore building a lifestyle and just game 24/7, but the arguments are leaning in that direction.

My point from the beginning was Lifestyle ALONE will not replace Game.

Never has and never will.

If anyone believe it's so, let's meet in Vegas with your millions and we'll see who pulls more WITHOUT flashing cash and status.

Game. Set. Match. There will be no competition.

Game is not "I have a million dollars in the bank and can fly you to see me darling."

Lots of wealthy men do that and while they're buying them purses, trips and cars, guess who's cock they're riding? Mine. Due to game.

There's a specific 21yo chick who comes to mind who gets to live the jetset lifestyle by a guy in La in his mid-30's with mad money. The dumb fuck has NEVER actually fucked her. How do I know? Because unbeknown to him I'm fucking her and have had 1 on 1 convos with him and he's stated: "I don't get it. I buy her shit, take her on trips, but the most I've gotten is a kiss." I laughed inside. Because you have no game my friend. None. And she's playing you like a fiddle because SHE has Girl Game. Despite your Lifestyle.

Game is having the ability to pull hot girls with no money, no status and no social circle.

My point is No Shit! Lifestyle can HELP enhance your game, but lifestyle alone will never replace Game.

Build both simultaneously to build a great life that allows you to enjoy women and money.

[WestCoast]

Atlantic that is a great question. I would have to sit down and put it all into words but basically you can tell based on how they view money, you can tell by how they think about life and death, you can tell by how they answer questions.

On the Internet the easiest way is to get them Into a discussion about the following topics

1. Race
2. Money
3. Death
4. Time

For age people look for excitement and vigor
They look for threads of being unable to control ones emotions. Get those convos going and triangulate.

Now you have a "snapshot".

Now to guess their race you look at who they seem to vibe with and take note.

Look for errors in syntax and changes to descriptions. Ask them to describe their day.

Boom you now know their ethnicity.

You will never know for example if someone is "35.5 years old and light black with $127.7K"

But you can get an idea where they are coming from. This is why it was so easy for me to take a hard stance in this thread.

hooligan is a much better poster than me. If you want to live the life go to his posts.

---

I obviously know you need "some game" but we already beat that one to death. 5 hours a week max, take risks build an empire on your own my man.

Cmq is missing the point. If I meet a girl in city X and say "hey I am going to be here for a day come here"

And she goes and fucks cmq when I am not there... well guess what?

IDGAF.

We fucked the same chick I don't care at all.

Chances are I didn't pay for shit and she just got to hang out with me at restaurant X or club Y for a day. Big whoop i was going to be there anyway. I am not buying chicks purses and shoes.

I am not allowing a woman to waste any of my time period.

Ideally I can take my "game time" to zero. But not there yet.

[Atlantic]

(03-20-2014 06:29 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

Game is not "I have a million dollars in the bank and can fly you to see me darling."

I don't know if that is a reference to what I just typed but just to clarify if it is: I am not paying for these girls to fly to me. In fact I spent pretty much nothing on these girls all weekend. Maybe a couple of shots at the bar but that doesn't mean much.

My money and time is used to invest in myself: books, gym, clothes, travel, education etc. This way when I am around these high value people (both girls came from uber wealthy backgrounds) I am congruent and on their level. I got plenty of compliments about the way I dressed and could easily hold interesting conversations about travel, life and business.

I stayed at the girls places both nights and one made me breakfast. I am not flashing cash to get these girls instead the cash is used to gain the knowledge/access to be at home in these environments that they are frequenting. It is also where many high value future business leaders are also hanging out.

I got invited by one to hang out in Aspen for a week at his lodge for a huge party. I grew up in the most rural part of Ireland possible so this is testament to the work put in on my lifestyle set-up.

If anything my cost per bang ratio is constantly going down as I move up.

[Christian McQueen]

^Not in reference to you.

I for one can definitely attest to coming from nothing, putting in HARD work and getting ahead, thus building a great lifestyle and enjoying the perks of it.

Anyone who knows what I'm about, knows I'm ALL about building a great lifestyle, but my point is, lifestyle ALONE will not make you a great player. Lifestyle will give you more access, but a cat who spends half his life thinking "I'll figure women out later after I'm set up", will never be in the league of a player who's honed his skills for years through thick and thin. It's simply not possible.

Building a Lifestyle is great and I admonish EVERYONE that reads this to do so, but don't confuse building a lifestyle with honing your Game. It's not the same.

To put off getting laid and learning HOW to, is shortchanging yourself from one of life's greatest pleasures.

[WestCoast]

(Delete)

[Christian McQueen]

WC: "We fucked the same chick I don't care at all."

^Thats not my point because this guy providing her with a lifestyle ISN'T fucking her.

The point is don't think that a Lifestyle ALONE is enough to be fucking dimes left and right. The only way a wealthy guy is banging dimes consistently with NO GAME, is a guy playing the provider/Sugar Daddy.

Guaranteed.

[WestCoast]

Look man.

If you're saying you need normal social skills that's not really a great point is it?

Baseline game takes about a few months to get good at it. Ie you spend 24/7/365 approaching chicks for 3 months.

Call it 2 years or so if you follow my 5 hours a day plan. Clearly this is much smarter. You don't bang as many chicks but you're not heavily invested into the process.

Then you're golden.

Not much else to learn really. Develop your own game and move on.

Saying you need game on a game forum I don't really understand how that is a significant point at all.

That's like me writing a 7 page essay that says "hot chicks can date higher value men!"

Okay and?

[Hotwheels]

Quote:

MCQ-Build both simultaneously to build a great life that allows you to enjoy women and money.

7 pages of bickering about semantics and this is all there is to it.

[Christian McQueen]

5 hours a Day?

Thought you said 5 hours a week?

[Vicious]

I don't understand why it's such a controversial claim that a balance of lifestyle and game will bring you the best results.

Who are these people claiming Lifestyle 100% and game 0% is the way to do it?
Who are the guys saying game 100% and lifestyle 0% is where it's at?

Do these people even exist?

(03-20-2014 06:51 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

WC: "We fucked the same chick I don't care at all."

Everybody's had a piece of Lindsey.

[WestCoast]

Whatever all I see is an op that says

"Hey everyone you need some game!"

On a game forum.

That's like announcing to the world.

Hey average guy can get laid with game!

Does't everyone and their mom know this?

---

Other important news alert!

It is cheaper to live in Thailand!

Cheaper!

Here is how it is cheaper:

(Insert 7 page cost of living analysis).

---

What was the point. I am not even going to edit my shit to 5 hours a week again. It's been beaten to death.

Other amazing fact! 7 page analysis saying girls like muscles over fat guys!

I just don't get it.

[Christian McQueen]

"Saying you need game on a game forum I don't really understand how that is a significant point at all."

^Read through the threads. There was a recent post linked to an article regarding Game is not needed etc. For guys new to game, I'm merely pointing out there IS a difference.

And there has been multiple comments, which I don't have the time to dig up and I'm on my mobile, with cats stating that "working out, dressing sharp and focusing on money IS game and learning to approach etc isn't needed".

We both agree that Lifestyle + Game is needed, but I think we disagree on how to get there, that's all.

I've said my fill unless someone drops a new post with a good angle to discuss.

[WestCoast]

That's fine then maybe it should have been labeled "post for newbies on why you need game".

I guess I missed the point and changes that occurred here.

@vicious please don't publish those photos they are going into my "top achievements" folder on my iCloud to be saved forever.

They are very special to me

[Christian McQueen]

(03-20-2014 07:09 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

That's fine then maybe it should have been labeled "post for newbies on why you need game".

I guess I missed the point and changes that occurred here.

Original Post: "You veteran players understand the difference between Game and Lifestyle, but for the newbies I'm about to breakdown why Game is fundamentally important and always will be in order to bed girls with consistency."

Maybe, I should have posted it under the Newbie Thread, and if the moderators want to move it that's cool.

Regardless it's been slightly entertaining.

[Atlantic]

Again I am not looking to get caught up in the back and forth I just wanted to add my bit.

In life I use the approach 'don't ask people for advice who don't already have the results you want'.

I looked at the people I knew who were the most successful, most happy, had the best game and had the charisma and business skills to succeed big at life. These are the people I most admired so I broke down their approach so I could model it myself. What I noticed:

(And this list is for me, by me, for my goals and definition of success)

-Don't drink or drink very little, don't smoke grass, eat healthy, lift and sleep well. Go out only a few nights a year (10-20)

-Have a huge circle of friends but only a very core 'mastermind group' that they spend 80% of their time with

-Work alongside people who are even better then them so they are constantly getting motivation and exposure above their current level

- Learnt game in one way or another but after a foundation was built moved on to focusing more on their lifestyle and goals

- Will focus more on business/connecting with high value people then getting girls if the two conflict at the same time

- Now get 90% of their girls passively through their lifestyle and sphere of influence

-Actually live a 'boring' life of reading, learning, making solid connections, focusing on the smallest details and working hard behind the scenes

-Now after several years of lifestyle development have learnt the long way around all the characteristics of a natural and actually have more solid game then the guy who went the game route first

Once you have your lifestyle sorted to a high level all these game pieces fall into place so much easier. Of course work on them on the way up but they will only improve as your lifestyle gets better.

My confidence this last year has skyrocketed. I always knew confidence was sexy but I could only be 100% congruent with it till I had my lifestyle sorted. I also know it will continue to go up every year after this as I work harder and harder towards my goals. The approach of fake it till you make it only goes so far, eventually you have to start working on the roots.

Again this isn't an attack on peoples posts just adding my experience.

[Merenguero]

This thread needs more G Manifesto. This would be as good a time as any for him to come back. I need to get his take on a business idea anyway. It involves tacos al pastor.

[mbare]

I will concede if a young person asked me what they should focus on first in life, hypothetically assuming they have to choose one, then I would tell them lifestyle. To that point I agree with WC.

But the reason I'm more in the "game is necessary" camp, is because I feel game is imperative for you to capitalize on your lifestyle. Developing your game will enhance everything, from women to your work. I'd say gaining wisdom is developing game to a degree. And lacking wisdom/game, as we know from many stories of rich dudes getting screwed over, will diminish their lifestyle to a degree.

Here are a few real life examples as to why it's necessary to have game along with lifestyle:

1. College friend-Engineering student, 6'2", very good looking guy, and not socially retarded. He was fucked over by his ex who cheated on him, can't close for shit, and has major oneitis even to this day. In regards to his last girl, anyone with a player mentality/game could see she would have been a pump and dump kinda girl. He dated her for over 2 years, then finally came to that conclusion. Harem will never be in his vocabulary. He's successful in life, but it will never be enhanced because he has no game.

2. Another college friend of mine. Failed out of college, average looks, 5'11". He started working for a company despite not having a degree, and climbed up the ladder. He's now in a rather high position, bought a house, and making good money, etc. The guy recently got engaged to a land whale. Not only that, but she's load, obnoxious and has him by the balls. Because of NOT having game, the dude did not capitalize on his success.

3. Me. College degree, good looking guy, 5'8". Job right away, career progression, moved to Europe...my lifestyle felt in check. I dropped all of the smallville notion of love I had been brought up on, made friends with a player in Italy, and started approaching and learning from my friend. I knew nothing about game principles. I was driven to enhance my lifestyle by learning and developing my inner game. I wanted to fly into a new city, and be able to pull a girl in 3 nights. I developed a harem where I lived, and banged girls as traveled. Not every trip was successful, but many were. I banged 5 girls (2 Czech, 1 Ukraine, 1 Lithuania, 1 Estonia) on my last 21 day trip across Europe before coming back to the States. I'm not bragging, but trying to prove a point.

My success/lifestyle allowed me to have the means to travel, have a hotel, and go to clubs. This is true. But it was my game that closed them.

[anonymous123]

Atlantic - that post from Hooligan Harry is exactly my angle and how I'm living. So, when I say it is important to work on self, it isn't that I'm dismissive of game, it is just that they become one in the same if you focus on building yourself. I tend to be doing quite alright, and I don't have to do 1000s approaches to do it. Thanks for sharing.

[Atlantic]

Like Christian mentioned maybe this should be posted in the newbie section.

I think it comes across as clickbate for the people who have been around a little while and have already seen many of these topics covered (and then some) by established members.

I thought Roosh was going to cover advertising/links but I for one find it hard to debate a subject when one party has a financial interest in a certain outcome. I am glad the Scotion never had an ebook link for making money in Canada, It would have only made me question his motives. Same with westcoast -he is giving up his valuable to time to post his advice for free. I can debate and trust his advice to be motivated by furthering everyone's knowledge.

It is hard to trust these threads serve a purely informative motive when they're are 7 links for products under your name Christian. Even Roosh lays back on his products and lets people seek them out.

Maybe the newbie section is a better place for threads that have already been covered/ cause endless debating.