[Mr. Plow]

I haven't been able to approach in a while. Between the little break down I had and some serious questions about whether it was worth it for me, I just couldn't get up the nerve. Today I did my first approach in maybe two months.......... I completely changed what I was doing to fit a Day Bang model. And I will likely put more approaches in reply posts. Here is my first.


I went to a local super market, dressed in slacks and a long sleeved button shirt with arms rolled up. I walk around the store slowly, saw her and wondered to her while browsing other things. She was about a 7, under 30(I'm 28), fuckable. She looked like she was not in a hurry.

Me: Excuse Me.
Her: Hi.
Me: Do you know where the sandwich bags are?(with confused look)
Her: I have no idea, haha.
Me: I always seem to get lost when I come here.
Her: hahaha, me too! I think it's this way(she ducked around the corner, and I followed enough to see her, but still trying not to seem like I was following her)
Me: I think I'm gonna give my shopping list to an employee and tell them to get the items for me, and just sit down and wait.
Her: They actually do that now, it's a thing, you can order online.
Me: I know WalMart does, but I don't know about them. I see employees dropping stuff on the ground then pick it back up on the shelves.
Her: oh, ok have a good day(she looked hurried now, and walking away).

The end seemed very abrupt, I felt like I said something, or maybe she realized I was bullshitting her. When she actually started walking toward the isle I felt it was overly helpful, and looking back it seemed like she was using the walk around the isle as a way to get away from me, lol. Don't know, everything was done so smoothly I don't know if that's just my paranoia talking.

Trying to get to 10 by the end of the week, but not stressing it. Too much of that for me to try too hard right now.(I am looking for feed back form experienced member)

[Shotgun Styles]

It gets easier with numbers. Volume is key.

One thing you did well was that you made definitive statements rather than asking questions. Controlling the conversation is important. Next I'd layer in making your statements inclusive to her, and not just you. Talk about what she's shopping for. Talk about what she's hungry for.

Don't sweat the soft ejection, it's all part of the game. Good luck and happy hunting.

[Edmund Dantes]

As long as you keep practicing, you'll get better. Good job!

EDIT- Have you experimented with direct approaching? I find it goes well if you can identify slut signs easily. Check out Tuth's 24 Signs She's a Slut.

[Mr. Plow]

(12-10-2013 09:21 PM)Edmund Dantes Wrote:  

As long as you keep practicing, you'll get better. Good job!

EDIT- Have you experimented with direct approaching? I find it goes well if you can identify slut signs easily. Check out Tuth's 24 Signs She's a Slut.

Yeah, I think I've approached over 250 women using direct stuff This link could be helpful.

Thanks for the tip. I have been through sign 22, 21, 5... The rest no. Those tips seem more for once the date begins. Once I get the chick on the date I seem to magically gain super powered pua shit. I really don't understand how I get such bad responses and then go on to fuck every woman who actually makes the date. But oh well.

They all seemed to be bored, all the ones that made the date. But it should be noted that around 7/8 of the woman who fit the bill flake. Not really an indicator she will show up, more an indicator that I could get her number.

This is all limited knowledge though, I'm really in my infancy here.

[MrXY]

Direct Game is for those guys who really have their shit together- Inner Game, Game Technique and Look

Example: GoodLookingLoser
Counterexample: Toronto mall PUA dorks

Direct forces the girl to make a snap decision about you and if you want that decision to go in your favor you better be sharp as hell from the get go

[direct2Leo]

Direct has lot to do with inner game. I saw guys struggled with it, until they overcame their mental obstacles... The one guy I am helping currently... it took him 2 years to reach where now he can attract a 9...
If you have looks (+good fashion sense), it'll help you.
In your local supermart or mall... DTF girls are often the one who are showing more skin than other girls in the venue there... Its more like showing her availability. Tuth's slut signs will help u in terms of getting insta-dates and more

[Seaver]

(12-10-2013 08:57 PM)Mr. Plow Wrote:  

Me: I know WalMart does, but I don't know about them. I see employees dropping stuff on the ground then pick it back up on the shelves.

This line seems kind negative in tone, which isn't usually the vibe you want to go for with someone you don't know.

Off hand I would have asked a question there...she threw out some information voluntarily. That's kinda your prompt to ask about it rather than disparage it. Maybe she has used the service and really liked it and now here you are coming a bit negative about it.

[Nascimento]

(12-10-2013 11:01 PM)MrXY Wrote:  

Direct Game is for those guys who really have their shit together- Inner Game, Game Technique and Look

Example: GoodLookingLoser
Counterexample: Toronto mall PUA dorks

Direct forces the girl to make a snap decision about you and if you want that decision to go in your favor you better be sharp as hell from the get go

Direct game broken down in the most simple way possible.

[Pinocchio]

Imo it's all about direct game, even if you completely fuck up one approach it's probably more beneficial then a bunch of indirect stuff.

[All or Nothing]

(12-14-2013 03:47 PM)Pinocchio Wrote:  

Imo it's all about direct game, even if you completely fuck up one approach it's probably more beneficial then a bunch of indirect stuff.

Last Sunday, I talked to a girl in the coffee shop at 10:30.

Didn't say a word about whether or not I found her attractive.

Within an hour we were at her place drinking gin, watching a movie, and making out.

Indirect works.

[Mr. Plow]

Went out a couple more times. approached 4. The first two were at a grocery store which went surprisingly well. I ran out of material and even though they both seemed to be staying there and talking to me I just couldn't keep talking. Then I forgot Galnuc completely, lol. I ejected after I couldn't think. I wrote some notes down so next time I will do better.

The other two women were at our local indoor mall. The place was packed and everyone was rushing around. I approached a couple women and asked them if they knew where a good place to go for an ugly sweater was. The first woman just said "No" and looked away, I figure if she's not giving me attention, then screw her. The second woman just looked at me and said "Why don't you ask an employee?" "Maybe over there" I said thanks and left.

I have never had good experience with women at that indoor mall. So many hot women, but no good has come of it. I think I will likely never go there again.


I am also noticing that my ability to have on the fly conversations is very bad. I think it was a product of being nothing but direct from the beginning of my pickup career. If nothing I will learn how to actually have a conversation with a woman outside a dating environment. Better conversation skills.

[Pinocchio]

to me it sounds like theyre getting confused about your intentions. this is why i would always go direct..

"do you know a good place to go for an ugly sweater?" in my head this sounds like a really weird thing to say.

"excuse me, i literally just saw you and thought you looked nice and had to come over and talk to you blah blah blah"

at least now sees clear on your intentions and youve had the balls to admit it.

[Mr. Plow]

(12-20-2013 05:56 AM)Pinocchio Wrote:  

to me it sounds like theyre getting confused about your intentions. this is why i would always go direct..

"do you know a good place to go for an ugly sweater?" in my head this sounds like a really weird thing to say.

"excuse me, i literally just saw you and thought you looked nice and had to come over and talk to you blah blah blah"

at least now sees clear on your intentions and youve had the balls to admit it.

I don't wanna talk too much shit to you, but that's not why I'm here. I've done direct before, I was getting laid, sometimes. But I'm trying to break below the 1 and 50 mark.

Your wasting your time, stop posting on my thread. If I wanted direct advice I'd go back the RSD forum.

Roosh has indirect stuff I want to learn, so I'm here learning it.

[Pinocchio]

Okay, sorry.

[XXL]

I got few golden tips as for indirect game

= Assume the burden of the conversation =

Indirect thing works best when you start talking to the girl about relevant/situational stuff which provides many topics and allows her to contribute something. That's why opinion openers open so well, cause it's a combo of a casual short story that's easy to relate to which provides some context and some simple question that allows her to talk back. It's easy to respond to that. So it's easy to have a conversation by opening like that.

By asking a question as a random stranger you ask for too much compliance too fast. The girl might answer but usually will not contribute too much to the conversation. She has nothing to talk back. You give no topics that can hook her attention. So then you're forced to ask another question or use her short response [which may be very poor] to take that conversation somewhere.

Not only that but also by asking her bunch of questions right away you put pressure on her. She's on the spot. OK you can argue that simple questions about bags are not really that demanding but remember that you're there to pick help her invest her time in you, not to answer bunch of your questions and leave. Girls often shot guys down just because they themselves don't know what to say, it gets awkward and they just leave uncomfortable situation.

In your example, it was better to start talking about sandwich bags instead asking a question and say it all as an opener:

You: Damn those sandwich bags I can't find them again.. I always seem to get lost when I come here.. I think I'm gonna give my shopping list to an employee and tell them to get the items for me, and just sit down and wait.. I think WalMart is online right? But I don't know about them, I see employees dropping stuff on the ground then pick it back up on the shelves.. Your [item] seems like it was dropped down a couple of time, I wouldn't buy that If I was you
Her: blablablabalbabla..

You see, you go in and start talking about something on your mind [the more relevant/situational the better] so you give her a lot of things to respond to. You offer value as the call it, you go first as others say, you bring something, you give her excuse to talk back. You give something first so you can ask for something later.

You also take the responsibility for the direction of the conversation. By stating opinions, making comments, telling relevant stories you make it easy for her to enjoy that interaction without having to lead it. Girls don't like to make decisions. If you wait for a girl to give you some sort of overt approval you might wait for a long time. Decide for her. You act. She reacts.

If you don't know what to ramble about to break the ice try to recall things you've experienced in life that are relevant to to her [looks / demeanor / vibe / accessories / clothing / etc] or to the situation you're both in. If nothing comes to mind just just say what you like and hate about this situation you're both in. Even that's better than asking questions. You could say "i hate those shopping bags they're never there when I want them, do only I have this kind of problem or what? [negative]" or "I love these shopping bags from this mall they're really do their job well, too bad I can't find them, can I borrow yours?" [positive]


= Lead the conversation from impersonal to personal vibe =

Ok so now she's talking back. Good. But now you have to convert that from random conversation to 'me and you' conversation. This is when all those pickup goodies come in. You can:
- misinterpret her answer: look at you, you look like a sandwich bags specialist and I'm here lost like a pinokio, how can you not help me, christmas coming, time of good deeds
- tease - you love walmart?! oh no, how could you, we're over, I'm so hurt right now..
- challenge her - your cart is full of junk, you don't seem like you count calories huh? Oh no you got cheese I can't eat cheese no more..
- add fun - it sucks right? Let's make a big scene here together and make a riot so they will learn about those bags..
- command - come here show me your cart, maybe you picked something I missed..

She says something. You say something back. Cool. But now you have to gradually turn that random convo into more 'me and you' convo so that you don't end up in the conversation land of doom.

You can appreciate something about her "oh I didn't expect you would say/do that.. I like it.. who are you? forget shopping for a moment.. I can honestly say you're more interesting than sandwich bags.."

Or show some empathy like "hey you can leave me here in the middle of this mess if you're uncomfortable with me whining about this mall.. it's ok.. I was raised in oldchool house by my grandma who taught me to be social and straightforward, just let me know if cross the line [fucking money line, it disarms anything you can overdo later on].. you seem cool normal girl who would have thought I'd met one in the mall.."

Basically, just do ANYTHING you can to gradually convey interest in her. Flirt, qualify, push/pull, etc. The convo itself should be spontaneous and all over the place like there's no agenda. But at the same time you steer that fun towards your interest. After few minutes she should KNOW you're into her, not her shopping problems. Then it's easy to take her number or go for a mini date.

The worst thing about indirect way is getting stuck in plain conversation about nothing ended by pity phone number.

[quino_16]

(12-21-2013 08:25 AM)XXL Wrote:  

I got few golden tips as for indirect game

= Assume the burden of the conversation =

Indirect thing works best when you start talking to the girl about relevant/situational stuff which provides many topics and allows her to contribute something. That's why opinion openers open so well, cause it's a combo of a casual short story that's easy to relate to which provides some context and some simple question that allows her to talk back. It's easy to respond to that. So it's easy to have a conversation by opening like that.

By asking a question as a random stranger you ask for too much compliance too fast. The girl might answer but usually will not contribute too much to the conversation. She has nothing to talk back. You give no topics that can hook her attention. So then you're forced to ask another question or use her short response [which may be very poor] to take that conversation somewhere.

Not only that but also by asking her bunch of questions right away you put pressure on her. She's on the spot. OK you can argue that simple questions about bags are not really that demanding but remember that you're there to pick help her invest her time in you, not to answer bunch of your questions and leave. Girls often shot guys down just because they themselves don't know what to say, it gets awkward and they just leave uncomfortable situation.

In your example, it was better to start talking about sandwich bags instead asking a question and say it all as an opener:

You: Damn those sandwich bags I can't find them again.. I always seem to get lost when I come here.. I think I'm gonna give my shopping list to an employee and tell them to get the items for me, and just sit down and wait.. I think WalMart is online right? But I don't know about them, I see employees dropping stuff on the ground then pick it back up on the shelves.. Your [item] seems like it was dropped down a couple of time, I wouldn't buy that If I was you
Her: blablablabalbabla..

You see, you go in and start talking about something on your mind [the more relevant/situational the better] so you give her a lot of things to respond to. You offer value as the call it, you go first as others say, you bring something, you give her excuse to talk back. You give something first so you can ask for something later.

You also take the responsibility for the direction of the conversation. By stating opinions, making comments, telling relevant stories you make it easy for her to enjoy that interaction without having to lead it. Girls don't like to make decisions. If you wait for a girl to give you some sort of overt approval you might wait for a long time. Decide for her. You act. She reacts.

If you don't know what to ramble about to break the ice try to recall things you've experienced in life that are relevant to to her [looks / demeanor / vibe / accessories / clothing / etc] or to the situation you're both in. If nothing comes to mind just just say what you like and hate about this situation you're both in. Even that's better than asking questions. You could say "i hate those shopping bags they're never there when I want them, do only I have this kind of problem or what? [negative]" or "I love these shopping bags from this mall they're really do their job well, too bad I can't find them, can I borrow yours?" [positive]


= Lead the conversation from impersonal to personal vibe =

Ok so now she's talking back. Good. But now you have to convert that from random conversation to 'me and you' conversation. This is when all those pickup goodies come in. You can:
- misinterpret her answer: look at you, you look like a sandwich bags specialist and I'm here lost like a pinokio, how can you not help me, christmas coming, time of good deeds
- tease - you love walmart?! oh no, how could you, we're over, I'm so hurt right now..
- challenge her - your cart is full of junk, you don't seem like you count calories huh? Oh no you got cheese I can't eat cheese no more..
- add fun - it sucks right? Let's make a big scene here together and make a riot so they will learn about those bags..
- command - come here show me your cart, maybe you picked something I missed..

She says something. You say something back. Cool. But now you have to gradually turn that random convo into more 'me and you' convo so that you don't end up in the conversation land of doom.

You can appreciate something about her "oh I didn't expect you would say/do that.. I like it.. who are you? forget shopping for a moment.. I can honestly say you're more interesting than sandwich bags.."

Or show some empathy like "hey you can leave me here in the middle of this mess if you're uncomfortable with me whining about this mall.. it's ok.. I was raised in oldchool house by my grandma who taught me to be social and straightforward, just let me know if cross the line [fucking money line, it disarms anything you can overdo later on].. you seem cool normal girl who would have thought I'd met one in the mall.."

Basically, just do ANYTHING you can to gradually convey interest in her. Flirt, qualify, push/pull, etc. The convo itself should be spontaneous and all over the place like there's no agenda. But at the same time you steer that fun towards your interest. After few minutes she should KNOW you're into her, not her shopping problems. Then it's easy to take her number or go for a mini date.

The worst thing about indirect way is getting stuck in plain conversation about nothing ended by pity phone number.

As a newbie starting in daygame, this is great advice.
+1

[XXL]

PS. I think the larger problem you have OP is not the talking part cause you have long years of experience in that. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you put too much expectation on the girl to help you to take the interaction further. You want it to be 50/50 from the start. I think that's the root of your problem. It's similar with moving girls around, changing venues, pulling, and everything related to leading. You build you value first so you can get that compliance later [that's different topic though].

When you try 90/10 rule [which my previous post is about] and avoid saying some stupid shit you will see the difference. Cause by doing that you're giving something, not waiting to get something for free [reactions/approval].

But you need to unclog yourself and get talkative. Look up some exercises on this topic on internet. Or read > THIS < especially point 3.