[Patriarch]

Mainly between the websites Dave's ESL Café, Angelina's ESL café, and echinacities. Dave's has jobs from all over the world but mainly focuses on Korea and China. You will typically see anywhere between 4 and a dozen postings per day on the China and korea boards, and some of the posts are from recruiters with hundreds of positions. I've basically been spamming a generic email to every email of the jobs that interest me, including my passport page, diploma scan, TEFL certificate, resume and a recent passport style photo. It saves you the pointless middle step of having them ask, plus I feel like they are more likely to respond to you if they have dozens of applications.

Unfortunately I haven't received offers yet on the 5 main jobs I want; one each in Shanghai, Xian, Kunming, Wuhan, and Beijing. I got a great offer from Harbin, but that place gets absolutely frigid, since it is basically in Siberia.

It's hard for me to say what a good salary is, since the cost of living can vary so much city to city. Wuhan is half as expensive as Shanghai, but Shanghai can still be a lot cheaper than living in the states. You also have to look at all the extra things that come with these contracts. Housing or an allowance, airfare reimbursement, medical insurance, whether they actually sponsor your work visa, vacation time (this can vary wildly, from 10 days unpaid to 3 freaking months paid, like a legitimate teacher) and most importantly, your HOURS. Some of my top jobs I want don't pay as much total, but you may only be working 16 to 30 hours per week. Pay per hour is what you need to concern yourself with, especially because I have read you can make between 20 and 50 bucks per hour private tutoring. Ideally you'd want a 16 hour per week job that also provides housing and allows you to tutor.

I'm far from an expert on this, only been looking at this stuff for about a month now and applying since last week. There are a ton of resources on Dave's, and I'm sure I'm not the first person on this forum to talk about this. You're more than welcome to PM me if I can be of use.

[BadWolf]

1. Ok you obviously don't live here. Unlike you guys, I'm not travelling the world to put notches on a bed post, I've been there and done that, it gets boring. I'll tell you another little tidbit that altered my life forever: I was in north China and was going for the health check to get my Z visa, just a routine thing. I was working at a school with three feminist broads and banging one of the 20 something y/o students. Unfortunately, I didn't cover my tracks very well and the student started kissing me and grabbing my a$$ in class. The semi-dyke alliance was unfortunately 'in' with management and started creating a few problems around the school for me. Anyway after getting my healthcheck they said they fvcked up my blood test, so I had to get it done a second time. Then after about a week of waiting, the school took me in to see the doctor. This older woman looked very concerned and explained to my school's HR person that I had something called Hepititis C.

At that time I had no idea what it was, so I was like... "ok just sell me the medicine and I'll clear it up". They said that it was just a small problem and I could still teach my classes and that the medicine came in pill form but it would cost 1000 dollars PER MONTH. They tried to sign me up for this regiment at the hospital but when I consulted another teacher about it he said that the school I was working for said a similar thing to another teacher a few years previous to me. I was pretty devestated... I did some research and found that I had about 10 years to live and that taking the treatment would probably confine me to a wheelchair. I had to cut out drinking, partying, change my diet and that was just to make it to the 10 year mark. Well I did alot of crying, soul searching, I was really pissed at god for doing that, figured he must be an assh0le because I had just paid down my student loan. Went through hell those 6 months, depression, desperation, nobody in the school wanted to touch me and the girl I was seeing, understandably stopped having sex with me and we broke it off.

I went home a broken man. I stayed indoors for about 8 months, learned how to weld cause I figured it was the only job that would keep me away from accidentally passing this on to other people. I pretty much isolated myself from everything and started looking on STD websites for 'damaged' women to date, I was at an all time low. I looked up at the heavens and for some reason the only thing that mattered to me before exiting this Earth was to have a baby with a woman that would accept me with my 'disability'. I was willing to go to Afghanistan or Syria just to find some woman, anyone that would accept this. Then one day my parents convinced me to seek treatment from a hospital at home. I went and got some blood work done in preperation for the treatments. My best friend and I scheduled a time when we were going to start pushing the bucket list: Skydiving, Great White Shark diving, Base jumping (he's an adrenaline junky). I was in night clubs picking fights with guys 10 times my size and at one point I had out 5 guys surround me, but I was riding so high, I didn't care about anything, I must have looked crazy because they backed down.

I remember this like it was yesterday. I was playing fallout, new vegas in my parent's basement. My brother got a phone call and he came barrelling down the stairs, he fell at the bottom and did a half summersault/cartwheel, then ran up with my mother behind him and screamed in my face: "YOU DON'T HAVE IT". I said "What are you talking about???". He said "YOU NEVER HAD IT, THEY LIED TO YOU, that was the doctor on the phone, he wants to speak to you!!!".

Lo and behold the school and the Chinese hospital had infact lied to me, there was never a trace of it in my blood. I have since been through blood tests every year with nothing.

so to answer your first question: I wanted to go back to China to finish what I started, to look for a wife. I figured the North was an isolated incident, boy was I wrong... the second day on my return to China, I wanted to leave and go home, unfortunately it was the first day that I arrived that I met the girl I would end up marrying, and if there is such a thing as a soul mate or destiny then it was her I was meant to meet.

2. There is a thing in China called FACE and its a complicated thing. The Chinese have the Korean's automatic bestfriend syndrome if you are a white foreigner. They compliment you and tell you all sorts of wonderful things TO YOUR FACE but behind closed doors they go on about how you are a foreign dog, mogwai, loser etc etc. Because of the fairly racist nature of the Chinese, a black guy that speaks the language is looked at as a talking dog, they don't even bother with pleasantries, they will tell black people that they smell bad and shun them without a second thought. Same for fat people, they'll just say, 'ugh so fat and ugly' and walk away. At first I thought China was great and all my students loved me because they kept complimenting me every day and telling me how great I was. Then I got a report from the school that said my students had complained bitterly and I needed to change something or other. Chinese are the most 2 faced culture on the planet. They will butter you up and then tear you down. Secondly, I think your friends were probably talking to fairly educated individuals not typical street Chinese and probably women at that. The Chinese women are nuts for blood mixing. They think that a white/chinese child is the most beautiful thing in the world. I've had almost all my students (the adults) hit on me and tell me that they would like a mixed baby 'so beautiful so beautiful'. Then again, that may have been face, you can never tell here.

3. If I were you, I would be very careful in your assessment of your FEMALE friend who loves it here. If a woman loves it here there is a strong possibility that she is nuts or hasn't had time to fully aclimatize to China. I have yet to meet 1 foregin female from a first world country who hasn't gone bonkers, become a drug addict, fat or some other horrible thing. Usually the women are the biggest critics of China because they know that the foreign guys are here for Chinese poon. Does she have a boyfriend that she is trying to lock down here? If not, something is seriously wrong with your friend's brain.

4. Don't put this elevator life bvllshit on me ok, I've been teaching for 10 years in several different countries, it's what I like to do. I'm not really considered an 'expat', that title is resevered for non teachers who are making in a month, what I make in a year. Also if you live the expat life here, you are very likely to attract the GOLD DIGGERS, if you are here to have BANGS and get notches, then thats your thing, I'm not. I just want to enjoy life, play some video games and relax. I don't know business and to be honest I don't really care about that sh1t either.

5. Well if OP wants to be an eternal bachelor good for him. I don't and I'm speaking from personal experience and all of my knowledge is based on first hand accounts. I've married here and now as is customary in China, she wants a baby before she hits 25, so do I for that matter so if you want to know what life is like for a family man then I'm telling you. When I first got here, I was a single guy and life was a bit different but if you know anything about China you know THAT phase only lasts a few months. Chinese girls are very clingy and they play for keeps. My wife had her brother come out to meet me, to 'solidify' things when we first moved in together, he brought a Chinese corn shucker, which is kind of like a knife that curves around your knuckles. This is the kind of guy that drops bricks on people's heads when they get out of line. So there's that.

If OP is going to setup here longterm, the only real way to do that is to marry. Chinese girls are not like Thai women or Western women, thats what makes them great, they want very much to settle down and have a baby. If you marry the right one, they will support you and stand by you in your times of need. They will be there at your worst times, they will clean up after you and haul you on their back to the hospital when no one else will touch you. They will share everything with you even if they only have 300 rmb in their account. They wear their hearts on their sleeves but you won't find girls like that at an Expat bar or born in a 1st tier city. For the majority of the population here, there is no medical care, dental, there isn't even an assurance that you are safe from criminals. Your world could be changed in an instant and you are powerless to do anything about it. Girls that are worth marrying are the ones who grew up in these poverty conditions, know what its like to go hungry for weeks and know the REALITY of life. That kind of reality only exists in a few countries in the world, one of them is CHINA.

THAT is the biggest attraction to China, yeah I point out the negatives because if you look at all the second hand advice around this forum, its from guys who DON'T LIVE HERE and DON'T WORK HERE. It's mostly from guys who come here for a few months and think life in China is always a party. They don't get to know the people or the way of life and they listen to their friends who are all doing the same. My uncle married a Chinese girl about 15 years ago, he was an executive. He gave all his money to his kids and now lives in a country house way in the interior with his wife and they sell watermelons off a donkey. The pinnacle of life for some people is not getting flags in a country or money in a bank account, its about being able to live every day the way you want. If you don't experience the rat race in China as an ordinary rat, you'll never understand the plight of the majority and you'll never be able to connect with the people on the ground level. You don't need language to do that, you need an understanding of how they think. You won't see this if you are always dressed in a suit and frequenting expensive areas.

Yeah you can have bottle service at a night club and get all the ladies there until someone tells you "oh btw, all these people are rich kids, mob bosses, gays and prostitutes, what you thought regular people went to nightclubs in China!?!?!". But you wouldn't know that living the 'life'. Regular Chinese do not go to eat at pizza hut, drink starbucks coffees, hang out at nightclubs, those places are reserved for the rich folks. So if OP is looking for a rich spoiled girl, he will surely find one hanging around there.

I am the one advocating marriage and children and I am advocating it with women that support and stand by their men.

I like to think my posts are informative, I don't give a fvck if you think I'm an arrogant prick. I'm here for my wife only and she is worth everything I endure. She was there when I should have died and I will be there for her until I do.

[BadWolf]

Sorry OP, didn't mean to hijack your thread.

You should be looking at 35 dollars an hour from a SCHOOL, private stuff gets us around 70 bucks for an hour and a half. I mean once you get a year or so under your belt and if you are good at what you do and make it look effortless then yeah. I know a guy that can't make under 10 grand a month but he is the exception to the rule, he's unbelieveable but he's got a wife and 2 kids to support. He used to pump gas back home. I've never met a more committed dad, he would go to hell and back for his children.

You need to be able to teach kids to make bucks though. All the elite here have kids and they want them to speak English. The secret to running a good kids class is DISCIPLINE. You must be hardcore about it or kids will crush you. I run mine like my experience in boot and I exact some heavy penalties on the kids in my class. These brats think they can get away with murder, so I go right to the parents and lecture THEM about raising kids properly. My wife and I are like drill seargents and when we work in tandem, you should see these bratty bad kids nearly piss themselves scared. I LOVE a class with bad kids, they are the most fun to see turned into hardline competitors.

I'm not kidding when I say this: You need to study animal training videos, especially obideince school vids. Watch all the videos at home about the guys who go into houses and train the dogs to behave. A kids behavior is indicative of the way he is being raised at home, if you want to kill bad behaviour you have to go right to the source, the parents. You don't need to hit kids, you can get the rest of the class to do it for you, ala Full Metal Jacket. One thing I use is that if one of the kids is acting like a jackass, the whole row will get a week's worth of homework EXCEPT for him. That behavior stops almost instantly when they realize the repercussions of their behavior affect the entire group. I walk into a school like Sgt. Slaughter from G.I. Joe, I don't say hi to individual kids, hug them or any of that touchy-feely bs, let women do that. When I walk in the class all the kids are sitting at attention with their arms folded over their desks and nobody is talking. Once you get those kids to police each other, you can teach them anything and they will hang on your every word. Second you need to run GAMES, do nothing but this. And your games must have penalties, serious ones. I say to my kids, one row will win and I smile and show a small eraser that each will get. Then I frown and become very serious and say for the rest of you losers? You get homework, a 4 page essay on what it means to live in a world of 1.3 billion competitors or something along those lines. The kids nearly sh1t themselves and at the end of the class the kids who won the erasers are doing dances outside the classroom. You will never see kids fight so hard to learn a subject unless there are serious consequences....besides games with 'permanent loses' are way more fun and adrenaline filled when you know you only have one chance to win.

If I have sh1tty kids in class, I kick them out, no if, ands or buts. I've had kids scream, cry, throw fits, one kid threw a chair through a window, this only happens once. If the Chinese come in and start kissing and hugging them, I tell them to get out too. You can't be a hypocritical douche bag in this game or you'll never get the respect you desire, your reputation is paramount and your word must be law.. You cannot be afraid to walk away from a job, it helps if you have your own apartment.

If you are going to pass one USEFUL thing on to the Chinese, you should pass on the respect that we show each other in the West. This is what they will hire you for. Any monkey can teach English, but only a few special teachers can teach RESPECT. Once you get the feel for this, you will be in demand all across the country. Every class I go to, I can literally WOW the staff there. People need to learn to respect one another. If you demand respect, and give it, you will get it.

God bless The Game!

[Chewbacon]

(12-06-2013 10:55 PM)BadWolf Wrote:  

1. Ok you obviously don't live here. Unlike you guys, I'm not travelling the world to put notches on a bed post, I've been there and done that, it gets boring. I'll tell you another little tidbit that altered my life forever: I was in north China and was going for the health check to get my Z visa, just a routine thing. I was working at a school with three feminist broads and banging one of the 20 something y/o students. Unfortunately, I didn't cover my tracks very well and the student started kissing me and grabbing my a$$ in class. The semi-dyke alliance was unfortunately 'in' with management and started creating a few problems around the school for me. Anyway after getting my healthcheck they said they fvcked up my blood test, so I had to get it done a second time. Then after about a week of waiting, the school took me in to see the doctor. This older woman looked very concerned and explained to my school's HR person that I had something called Hepititis C.

At that time I had no idea what it was, so I was like... "ok just sell me the medicine and I'll clear it up". They said that it was just a small problem and I could still teach my classes and that the medicine came in pill form but it would cost 1000 dollars PER MONTH. They tried to sign me up for this regiment at the hospital but when I consulted another teacher about it he said that the school I was working for said a similar thing to another teacher a few years previous to me. I was pretty devestated... I did some research and found that I had about 10 years to live and that taking the treatment would probably confine me to a wheelchair. I had to cut out drinking, partying, change my diet and that was just to make it to the 10 year mark. Well I did alot of crying, soul searching, I was really pissed at god for doing that, figured he must be an assh0le because I had just paid down my student loan. Went through hell those 6 months, depression, desperation, nobody in the school wanted to touch me and the girl I was seeing, understandably stopped having sex with me and we broke it off.

I went home a broken man. I stayed indoors for about 8 months, learned how to weld cause I figured it was the only job that would keep me away from accidentally passing this on to other people. I pretty much isolated myself from everything and started looking on STD websites for 'damaged' women to date, I was at an all time low. I looked up at the heavens and for some reason the only thing that mattered to me before exiting this Earth was to have a baby with a woman that would accept me with my 'disability'. I was willing to go to Afghanistan or Syria just to find some woman, anyone that would accept this. Then one day my parents convinced me to seek treatment from a hospital at home. I went and got some blood work done in preperation for the treatments. My best friend and I scheduled a time when we were going to start pushing the bucket list: Skydiving, Great White Shark diving, Base jumping (he's an adrenaline junky). I was in night clubs picking fights with guys 10 times my size and at one point I had out 5 guys surround me, but I was riding so high, I didn't care about anything, I must have looked crazy because they backed down.

I remember this like it was yesterday. I was playing fallout, new vegas in my parent's basement. My brother got a phone call and he came barrelling down the stairs, he fell at the bottom and did a half summersault/cartwheel, then ran up with my mother behind him and screamed in my face: "YOU DON'T HAVE IT". I said "What are you talking about???". He said "YOU NEVER HAD IT, THEY LIED TO YOU, that was the doctor on the phone, he wants to speak to you!!!".

Lo and behold the school and the Chinese hospital had infact lied to me, there was never a trace of it in my blood. I have since been through blood tests every year with nothing.

so to answer your first question: I wanted to go back to China to finish what I started, to look for a wife. I figured the North was an isolated incident, boy was I wrong... the second day on my return to China, I wanted to leave and go home, unfortunately it was the first day that I arrived that I met the girl I would end up marrying, and if there is such a thing as a soul mate or destiny then it was her I was meant to meet.

2. There is a thing in China called FACE and its a complicated thing. The Chinese have the Korean's automatic bestfriend syndrome if you are a white foreigner. They compliment you and tell you all sorts of wonderful things TO YOUR FACE but behind closed doors they go on about how you are a foreign dog, mogwai, loser etc etc. Because of the fairly racist nature of the Chinese, a black guy that speaks the language is looked at as a talking dog, they don't even bother with pleasantries, they will tell black people that they smell bad and shun them without a second thought. Same for fat people, they'll just say, 'ugh so fat and ugly' and walk away. At first I thought China was great and all my students loved me because they kept complimenting me every day and telling me how great I was. Then I got a report from the school that said my students had complained bitterly and I needed to change something or other. Chinese are the most 2 faced culture on the planet. They will butter you up and then tear you down. Secondly, I think your friends were probably talking to fairly educated individuals not typical street Chinese and probably women at that. The Chinese women are nuts for blood mixing. They think that a white/chinese child is the most beautiful thing in the world. I've had almost all my students (the adults) hit on me and tell me that they would like a mixed baby 'so beautiful so beautiful'. Then again, that may have been face, you can never tell here.

3. If I were you, I would be very careful in your assessment of your FEMALE friend who loves it here. If a woman loves it here there is a strong possibility that she is nuts or hasn't had time to fully aclimatize to China. I have yet to meet 1 foregin female from a first world country who hasn't gone bonkers, become a drug addict, fat or some other horrible thing. Usually the women are the biggest critics of China because they know that the foreign guys are here for Chinese poon. Does she have a boyfriend that she is trying to lock down here? If not, something is seriously wrong with your friend's brain.

4. Don't put this elevator life bvllshit on me ok, I've been teaching for 10 years in several different countries, it's what I like to do. I'm not really considered an 'expat', that title is resevered for non teachers who are making in a month, what I make in a year. Also if you live the expat life here, you are very likely to attract the GOLD DIGGERS, if you are here to have BANGS and get notches, then thats your thing, I'm not. I just want to enjoy life, play some video games and relax. I don't know business and to be honest I don't really care about that sh1t either.

5. Well if OP wants to be an eternal bachelor good for him. I don't and I'm speaking from personal experience and all of my knowledge is based on first hand accounts. I've married here and now as is customary in China, she wants a baby before she hits 25, so do I for that matter so if you want to know what life is like for a family man then I'm telling you. When I first got here, I was a single guy and life was a bit different but if you know anything about China you know THAT phase only lasts a few months. Chinese girls are very clingy and they play for keeps. My wife had her brother come out to meet me, to 'solidify' things when we first moved in together, he brought a Chinese corn shucker, which is kind of like a knife that curves around your knuckles. This is the kind of guy that drops bricks on people's heads when they get out of line. So there's that.

If OP is going to setup here longterm, the only real way to do that is to marry. Chinese girls are not like Thai women or Western women, thats what makes them great, they want very much to settle down and have a baby. If you marry the right one, they will support you and stand by you in your times of need. They will be there at your worst times, they will clean up after you and haul you on their back to the hospital when no one else will touch you. They will share everything with you even if they only have 300 rmb in their account. They wear their hearts on their sleeves but you won't find girls like that at an Expat bar or born in a 1st tier city. For the majority of the population here, there is no medical care, dental, there isn't even an assurance that you are safe from criminals. Your world could be changed in an instant and you are powerless to do anything about it. Girls that are worth marrying are the ones who grew up in these poverty conditions, know what its like to go hungry for weeks and know the REALITY of life. That kind of reality only exists in a few countries in the world, one of them is CHINA.

THAT is the biggest attraction to China, yeah I point out the negatives because if you look at all the second hand advice around this forum, its from guys who DON'T LIVE HERE and DON'T WORK HERE. It's mostly from guys who come here for a few months and think life in China is always a party. They don't get to know the people or the way of life and they listen to their friends who are all doing the same. My uncle married a Chinese girl about 15 years ago, he was an executive. He gave all his money to his kids and now lives in a country house way in the interior with his wife and they sell watermelons off a donkey. The pinnacle of life for some people is not getting flags in a country or money in a bank account, its about being able to live every day the way you want. If you don't experience the rat race in China as an ordinary rat, you'll never understand the plight of the majority and you'll never be able to connect with the people on the ground level. You don't need language to do that, you need an understanding of how they think. You won't see this if you are always dressed in a suit and frequenting expensive areas.

Yeah you can have bottle service at a night club and get all the ladies there until someone tells you "oh btw, all these people are rich kids, mob bosses, gays and prostitutes, what you thought regular people went to nightclubs in China!?!?!". But you wouldn't know that living the 'life'. Regular Chinese do not go to eat at pizza hut, drink starbucks coffees, hang out at nightclubs, those places are reserved for the rich folks. So if OP is looking for a rich spoiled girl, he will surely find one hanging around there.

I am the one advocating marriage and children and I am advocating it with women that support and stand by their men.

I like to think my posts are informative, I don't give a fvck if you think I'm an arrogant prick. I'm here for my wife only and she is worth everything I endure. She was there when I should have died and I will be there for her until I do.

Your entire story is fair and very respectable. I apologize for giving you so much hate earlier.

I think your perspective is also incredibly valuable.

But I just think this forum is about a certain type of travel and a certain type of lifestyle. It doesn't have to be and it isn't exclusive to it, but we at Roosh V do constitute a particular demographic. Roosh devotes an entire blog to never settling down and garnering "flags." Yes, you may have been there and done that, but many have not had a sufficient fill yet. At the end of the day I think very few of us are contemplating permanent residency anywhere, settling down anywhere, or specifically going to a country to do those things. Very few of us are considering "becoming one of the locals."

So perhaps, for many of us, living and working in 1st tier cities and banging girls who frequent nightclubs and starbucks is what we're after. These girls may be the educated wealthy minority, but they are still people. And most of the ones I have met from this demographic are not that bad. Many are emotionally immature and have incredibly unrealistic expectations of courtship, as well as being more materialistic than I would prefer, but they aren't evil.

[Patriarch]

(12-06-2013 11:42 PM)BadWolf Wrote:  

Sorry OP, didn't mean to hijack your thread.

You should be looking at 35 dollars an hour from a SCHOOL, private stuff gets us around 70 bucks for an hour and a half. I mean once you get a year or so under your belt and if you are good at what you do and make it look effortless then yeah. I know a guy that can't make under 10 grand a month but he is the exception to the rule, he's unbelieveable but he's got a wife and 2 kids to support. He used to pump gas back home. I've never met a more committed dad, he would go to hell and back for his children.

You need to be able to teach kids to make bucks though. All the elite here have kids and they want them to speak English. The secret to running a good kids class is DISCIPLINE. You must be hardcore about it or kids will crush you. I run mine like my experience in boot and I exact some heavy penalties on the kids in my class. These brats think they can get away with murder, so I go right to the parents and lecture THEM about raising kids properly. My wife and I are like drill seargents and when we work in tandem, you should see these bratty bad kids nearly piss themselves scared. I LOVE a class with bad kids, they are the most fun to see turned into hardline competitors.

I'm not kidding when I say this: You need to study animal training videos, especially obideince school vids. Watch all the videos at home about the guys who go into houses and train the dogs to behave. A kids behavior is indicative of the way he is being raised at home, if you want to kill bad behaviour you have to go right to the source, the parents. You don't need to hit kids, you can get the rest of the class to do it for you, ala Full Metal Jacket. One thing I use is that if one of the kids is acting like a jackass, the whole row will get a week's worth of homework EXCEPT for him. That behavior stops almost instantly when they realize the repercussions of their behavior affect the entire group. I walk into a school like Sgt. Slaughter from G.I. Joe, I don't say hi to individual kids, hug them or any of that touchy-feely bs, let women do that. When I walk in the class all the kids are sitting at attention with their arms folded over their desks and nobody is talking. Once you get those kids to police each other, you can teach them anything and they will hang on your every word. Second you need to run GAMES, do nothing but this. And your games must have penalties, serious ones. I say to my kids, one row will win and I smile and show a small eraser that each will get. Then I frown and become very serious and say for the rest of you losers? You get homework, a 4 page essay on what it means to live in a world of 1.3 billion competitors or something along those lines. The kids nearly sh1t themselves and at the end of the class the kids who won the erasers are doing dances outside the classroom. You will never see kids fight so hard to learn a subject unless there are serious penalties....besides games with 'permanent loses' are way more fun and adrenaline filled when you know you only have one chance to win.

If I have sh1tty kids in class, I kick them out, no if, ands or buts. I've had kids scream, cry, throw fits, one kid threw a chair through a window, this only happens once. If the Chinese come in and start kissing and hugging them, I tell them to get out too. You can't be a hypocritical douche bag in this game or you'll never get the respect you desire, your reputation is paramount and your word must be law.. You cannot be afraid to walk away from a job, it helps if you have your own apartment.


Once you get the feel for this, you will be in demand all across the country. Every class I go to, I can literally WOW the staff there. People need to learn to respect one another. If you demand respect, you will get it.

God bless The Game!

You didn't hijack my thread, this is some of the stuff I want to hear. It's true that I don't plan on staying in China long term, but I anticipate being here for at least two years. I want to eventually work independent of location, either through writing or some other means. I am more of the mindset of getting notches than settling down permanently- I am 23, and I was engaged when I was 20 for a period of a year, to a girl I had dated since high school. I feel like I narrowly dodged a bullet covered in crazy and I want to make the most of it. One thing I don't understand is how I could be getting anywhere near that much money from a school with no teaching experience. I'm pretty sure I can negotiate most of these contracts but the hourly pay is typically less than $20.

[MidWest]

Do you guys know when is a good time to start applying to ESL jobs in China? Im a senior in college and really the only thing that is holding me back right now is the Bachelor's degree and TESOL or TEFL certificate which I havent gotten yet. I only need about a year of school left to go and will be finishing a Bachelor's sometime around this time next year. When is it the perfect time to start applying?

Thanks in Advanced! Im thinking of Shenzhen

[clever alias]

SHANbangs, you also said you were an ABC, yes?
you'll have a slightly different view on China than a white person

[TriSexual]

(12-06-2013 10:55 PM)BadWolf Wrote:  

1. Ok you obviously don't live here. Unlike you guys, I'm not travelling the world to put notches on a bed post, I've been there and done that, it gets boring. I'll tell you another little tidbit that altered my life forever: I was in north China and was going for the health check to get my Z visa, just a routine thing. I was working at a school with three feminist broads and banging one of the 20 something y/o students. Unfortunately, I didn't cover my tracks very well and the student started kissing me and grabbing my a$$ in class. The semi-dyke alliance was unfortunately 'in' with management and started creating a few problems around the school for me. Anyway after getting my healthcheck they said they fvcked up my blood test, so I had to get it done a second time. Then after about a week of waiting, the school took me in to see the doctor. This older woman looked very concerned and explained to my school's HR person that I had something called Hepititis C.

At that time I had no idea what it was, so I was like... "ok just sell me the medicine and I'll clear it up". They said that it was just a small problem and I could still teach my classes and that the medicine came in pill form but it would cost 1000 dollars PER MONTH. They tried to sign me up for this regiment at the hospital but when I consulted another teacher about it he said that the school I was working for said a similar thing to another teacher a few years previous to me. I was pretty devestated... I did some research and found that I had about 10 years to live and that taking the treatment would probably confine me to a wheelchair. I had to cut out drinking, partying, change my diet and that was just to make it to the 10 year mark. Well I did alot of crying, soul searching, I was really pissed at god for doing that, figured he must be an assh0le because I had just paid down my student loan. Went through hell those 6 months, depression, desperation, nobody in the school wanted to touch me and the girl I was seeing, understandably stopped having sex with me and we broke it off.

I went home a broken man. I stayed indoors for about 8 months, learned how to weld cause I figured it was the only job that would keep me away from accidentally passing this on to other people. I pretty much isolated myself from everything and started looking on STD websites for 'damaged' women to date, I was at an all time low. I looked up at the heavens and for some reason the only thing that mattered to me before exiting this Earth was to have a baby with a woman that would accept me with my 'disability'. I was willing to go to Afghanistan or Syria just to find some woman, anyone that would accept this. Then one day my parents convinced me to seek treatment from a hospital at home. I went and got some blood work done in preperation for the treatments. My best friend and I scheduled a time when we were going to start pushing the bucket list: Skydiving, Great White Shark diving, Base jumping (he's an adrenaline junky). I was in night clubs picking fights with guys 10 times my size and at one point I had out 5 guys surround me, but I was riding so high, I didn't care about anything, I must have looked crazy because they backed down.

I remember this like it was yesterday. I was playing fallout, new vegas in my parent's basement. My brother got a phone call and he came barrelling down the stairs, he fell at the bottom and did a half summersault/cartwheel, then ran up with my mother behind him and screamed in my face: "YOU DON'T HAVE IT". I said "What are you talking about???". He said "YOU NEVER HAD IT, THEY LIED TO YOU, that was the doctor on the phone, he wants to speak to you!!!".

Lo and behold the school and the Chinese hospital had infact lied to me, there was never a trace of it in my blood. I have since been through blood tests every year with nothing.

so to answer your first question: I wanted to go back to China to finish what I started, to look for a wife. I figured the North was an isolated incident, boy was I wrong... the second day on my return to China, I wanted to leave and go home, unfortunately it was the first day that I arrived that I met the girl I would end up marrying, and if there is such a thing as a soul mate or destiny then it was her I was meant to meet.

2. There is a thing in China called FACE and its a complicated thing. The Chinese have the Korean's automatic bestfriend syndrome if you are a white foreigner. They compliment you and tell you all sorts of wonderful things TO YOUR FACE but behind closed doors they go on about how you are a foreign dog, mogwai, loser etc etc. Because of the fairly racist nature of the Chinese, a black guy that speaks the language is looked at as a talking dog, they don't even bother with pleasantries, they will tell black people that they smell bad and shun them without a second thought. Same for fat people, they'll just say, 'ugh so fat and ugly' and walk away. At first I thought China was great and all my students loved me because they kept complimenting me every day and telling me how great I was. Then I got a report from the school that said my students had complained bitterly and I needed to change something or other. Chinese are the most 2 faced culture on the planet. They will butter you up and then tear you down. Secondly, I think your friends were probably talking to fairly educated individuals not typical street Chinese and probably women at that. The Chinese women are nuts for blood mixing. They think that a white/chinese child is the most beautiful thing in the world. I've had almost all my students (the adults) hit on me and tell me that they would like a mixed baby 'so beautiful so beautiful'. Then again, that may have been face, you can never tell here.

3. If I were you, I would be very careful in your assessment of your FEMALE friend who loves it here. If a woman loves it here there is a strong possibility that she is nuts or hasn't had time to fully aclimatize to China. I have yet to meet 1 foregin female from a first world country who hasn't gone bonkers, become a drug addict, fat or some other horrible thing. Usually the women are the biggest critics of China because they know that the foreign guys are here for Chinese poon. Does she have a boyfriend that she is trying to lock down here? If not, something is seriously wrong with your friend's brain.

4. Don't put this elevator life bvllshit on me ok, I've been teaching for 10 years in several different countries, it's what I like to do. I'm not really considered an 'expat', that title is resevered for non teachers who are making in a month, what I make in a year. Also if you live the expat life here, you are very likely to attract the GOLD DIGGERS, if you are here to have BANGS and get notches, then thats your thing, I'm not. I just want to enjoy life, play some video games and relax. I don't know business and to be honest I don't really care about that sh1t either.

5. Well if OP wants to be an eternal bachelor good for him. I don't and I'm speaking from personal experience and all of my knowledge is based on first hand accounts. I've married here and now as is customary in China, she wants a baby before she hits 25, so do I for that matter so if you want to know what life is like for a family man then I'm telling you. When I first got here, I was a single guy and life was a bit different but if you know anything about China you know THAT phase only lasts a few months. Chinese girls are very clingy and they play for keeps. My wife had her brother come out to meet me, to 'solidify' things when we first moved in together, he brought a Chinese corn shucker, which is kind of like a knife that curves around your knuckles. This is the kind of guy that drops bricks on people's heads when they get out of line. So there's that.

If OP is going to setup here longterm, the only real way to do that is to marry. Chinese girls are not like Thai women or Western women, thats what makes them great, they want very much to settle down and have a baby. If you marry the right one, they will support you and stand by you in your times of need. They will be there at your worst times, they will clean up after you and haul you on their back to the hospital when no one else will touch you. They will share everything with you even if they only have 300 rmb in their account. They wear their hearts on their sleeves but you won't find girls like that at an Expat bar or born in a 1st tier city. For the majority of the population here, there is no medical care, dental, there isn't even an assurance that you are safe from criminals. Your world could be changed in an instant and you are powerless to do anything about it. Girls that are worth marrying are the ones who grew up in these poverty conditions, know what its like to go hungry for weeks and know the REALITY of life. That kind of reality only exists in a few countries in the world, one of them is CHINA.

THAT is the biggest attraction to China, yeah I point out the negatives because if you look at all the second hand advice around this forum, its from guys who DON'T LIVE HERE and DON'T WORK HERE. It's mostly from guys who come here for a few months and think life in China is always a party. They don't get to know the people or the way of life and they listen to their friends who are all doing the same. My uncle married a Chinese girl about 15 years ago, he was an executive. He gave all his money to his kids and now lives in a country house way in the interior with his wife and they sell watermelons off a donkey. The pinnacle of life for some people is not getting flags in a country or money in a bank account, its about being able to live every day the way you want. If you don't experience the rat race in China as an ordinary rat, you'll never understand the plight of the majority and you'll never be able to connect with the people on the ground level. You don't need language to do that, you need an understanding of how they think. You won't see this if you are always dressed in a suit and frequenting expensive areas.

Yeah you can have bottle service at a night club and get all the ladies there until someone tells you "oh btw, all these people are rich kids, mob bosses, gays and prostitutes, what you thought regular people went to nightclubs in China!?!?!". But you wouldn't know that living the 'life'. Regular Chinese do not go to eat at pizza hut, drink starbucks coffees, hang out at nightclubs, those places are reserved for the rich folks. So if OP is looking for a rich spoiled girl, he will surely find one hanging around there.

I am the one advocating marriage and children and I am advocating it with women that support and stand by their men.

I like to think my posts are informative, I don't give a fvck if you think I'm an arrogant prick. I'm here for my wife only and she is worth everything I endure. She was there when I should have died and I will be there for her until I do.

Awesome. AAA post
What do you recommend for good careers in China? Is teaching long term a viable solution? Do you plan on opening your own school?

[Suits]

(12-07-2013 04:27 AM)TriSexual Wrote:  

What do you recommend for good careers in China? Is teaching long term a viable solution? Do you plan on opening your own school?

Anything that doesn't require having a Chinese business partner, earns you enough money to fly home for medical care/sanity, and allows you to provide a service that very few others can do. No. No.

[Chewbacon]

(12-07-2013 02:22 AM)clever alias Wrote:  

SHANbangs, you also said you were an ABC, yes?
you'll have a slightly different view on China than a white person

Yes. Being ABC allows me to be invisible if I want to and speak mandarin without people giving me shit or treating me like a novelty. I think there is some sense among Chinese people that ABCs are "one of them," but that mostly occurs with girls ie. I can hold hands with a chinese girl down the street and she won't fear any repercussions. Most of my local Chinese friends are girls. Girls' parents are generally welcoming of ABCs. I have no delusions that the local guys probably think ABCs are no better than the "white foreign devils" taking their women. Have no pretenses - Chinese men are wildly resentful, but then again, they have a lot of shit to be resentful about.

That being said, being ABC means you don't get white-loving groupies.

But no, I don't think being ABC shields you from all the terrible, awful, shitty things that China and its people can do to you. On the other hand, I love the food

If I were to ever live in China permanently, it would only be in a limited number of scenarios: working in banking at an international firm (US or European bulge bracket) in Shanghai provided the FTZ shows real promise. I think consulting is another route, provided you are working for a premier western firm (MBB or Big 4) in a tier 1 city.

[paninaro]

OP: Read River Town by Peter Hessler. Actually, all 3 of his books on his time in China are great reading, but that one is specifically about his time as an English teacher at a college in a smaller city in China. I know it's about his experience a couple years ago, but still a good perspective and he's a great writer.

As for the recommendation about going to Xinjiang -- is Mandarin widely spoken there? My impression is that area didn't have many Han Chinese and Mandarin was not widely used, but I could be totaly wrong. Just asking, since I believe OP was interested in improving his Mandarin skills.

Personally, I think Chinese food is great, and you can basically get any Chinese regional cuisine in any decent-size city (in my experience), so I wouldn't choose a city based on the food.

[Patriarch]

Can anyone give their perspective on mid-range tailors in China? From what I've read on here, nothing compares to Bangkok, but I would like to get suited up on the cheap while I'm here. Would anyone bother with shoes or are they low quality?

[Suits]

(12-08-2013 03:16 PM)Sweet Pea Wrote:  

Can anyone give their perspective on mid-range tailors in China? From what I've read on here, nothing compares to Bangkok, but I would like to get suited up on the cheap while I'm here. Would anyone bother with shoes or are they low quality?

I've done well in Beijing and Hong Kong. The trick is finding a good quality tailor company who do a good job the first time around.

I can get suits at $100. I have eleven that I am very happy with from the first tailor I tried in Beijing. I've had shirts done in Hong Kong that remain my favourite for about $25 each.

I tried a different tailor in Beijing and ended up with 5 suits that I'm only marginally happy with. I had two suits done in Tianjin, which fit really good, but the material was not as good as what I'd gotten for the same price in Beijing from my trusted tailor. The Tianjin tailor, who said he was from Shanghai, couldn't tailor shirts that fit to save his own life.

Hong Kong suits should run you about $200, minimum, in my experience. Haven't had one made there yet.

I can't speak for any other areas.

I've bought some very nice shoes at the Silk Market in Beijing for $50ish and been very pleased with what I got for my money.

[Chewbacon]

(12-08-2013 07:04 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(12-08-2013 03:16 PM)Sweet Pea Wrote:  

Can anyone give their perspective on mid-range tailors in China? From what I've read on here, nothing compares to Bangkok, but I would like to get suited up on the cheap while I'm here. Would anyone bother with shoes or are they low quality?

I've done well in Beijing and Hong Kong. The trick is finding a good quality tailor company who do a good job the first time around.

I can get suits at $100. I have eleven that I am very happy with from the first tailor I tried in Beijing. I've had shirts done in Hong Kong that remain my favourite for about $25 each.

I tried a different tailor in Beijing and ended up with 5 suits that I'm only marginally happy with. I had two suits done in Tianjin, which fit really good, but the material was not as good as what I'd gotten for the same price in Beijing from my trusted tailor. The Tianjin tailor, who said he was from Shanghai, couldn't tailor shirts that fit to save his own life.

Hong Kong suits should run you about $200, minimum, in my experience. Haven't had one made there yet.

I can't speak for any other areas.

I've bought some very nice shoes at the Silk Market in Beijing for $50ish and been very pleased with what I got for my money.

Suits,

Any tailors you recommend in hong kong?

[Suits]

(12-08-2013 07:42 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  

(12-08-2013 07:04 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(12-08-2013 03:16 PM)Sweet Pea Wrote:  

Can anyone give their perspective on mid-range tailors in China? From what I've read on here, nothing compares to Bangkok, but I would like to get suited up on the cheap while I'm here. Would anyone bother with shoes or are they low quality?

I've done well in Beijing and Hong Kong. The trick is finding a good quality tailor company who do a good job the first time around.

I can get suits at $100. I have eleven that I am very happy with from the first tailor I tried in Beijing. I've had shirts done in Hong Kong that remain my favourite for about $25 each.

I tried a different tailor in Beijing and ended up with 5 suits that I'm only marginally happy with. I had two suits done in Tianjin, which fit really good, but the material was not as good as what I'd gotten for the same price in Beijing from my trusted tailor. The Tianjin tailor, who said he was from Shanghai, couldn't tailor shirts that fit to save his own life.

Hong Kong suits should run you about $200, minimum, in my experience. Haven't had one made there yet.

I can't speak for any other areas.

I've bought some very nice shoes at the Silk Market in Beijing for $50ish and been very pleased with what I got for my money.

Suits,

Any tailors you recommend in hong kong?

No. I've used two. One attempted to rip me off and the other did an excellent job, but doesn't respond to emails.

I'd say, have two shirts done by one of the 2000 tailor shops in Kowloon for $50 and if they turn out well and last for a while without falling to pieces, come back and have some suits done.

[Patriarch]

Applying for jobs I wasn't qualified for has started to pay off. I'm most likely taking a job with an international primary school in Wuhan. The pay is 11500 RMB/month, 18 to 25 teaching hours with 5 office hours per week, weekends off. It's a damn shame those jobs in Bangkok never called me back, though. Seems like Thai standards are higher. Thanks for all the info guys. Has anyone else noticed that most of the jobs in Shanghai and Beijing pay less than the tier 2 and 3 cities? Do they really expect people to take a huge pay cut, despite the higher cost of living, just because these cities are more desirable? I wouldn't take a 25% reduction in salary to live in New York over Baltimore.

[Suits]

(12-09-2013 11:13 PM)Sweet Pea Wrote:  

Applying for jobs I wasn't qualified for has started to pay off. I'm most likely taking a job with an international primary school in Wuhan. The pay is 11500 RMB/month, 18 to 25 teaching hours with 5 office hours per week, weekends off. It's a damn shame those jobs in Bangkok never called me back, though. Seems like Thai standards are higher. Thanks for all the info guys. Has anyone else noticed that most of the jobs in Shanghai and Beijing pay less than the tier 2 and 3 cities? Do they really expect people to take a huge pay cut, despite the higher cost of living, just because these cities are more desirable? I wouldn't take a 25% reduction in salary to live in New York over Baltimore.

I doubt that, based on my experiences in tier one and two cities.

It may be different when you are applying via email from abroad and don't have a great number of qualifications or experience, but in country, plenty of people earn 11,000+ in tier ones.

Then again, there are plenty of high schools and universities that will not offer more than 7000 RMB / mnth through out China, tier one cities and lower. How they ever find employees, I'll never understand.

[DirectDanger]

Quote:

Has anyone else noticed that most of the jobs in Shanghai and Beijing pay less than the tier 2 and 3 cities? Do they really expect people to take a huge pay cut, despite the higher cost of living, just because these cities are more desirable? I wouldn't take a 25% reduction in salary to live in New York over Baltimore.

You may be changing your mind about this when you get to the 2nd and 3rd tier cities. There is a reason they are less desirable.

The schools in Bangkok will never get back to you because there are so many people applying in person. Bangkok has a massive amount of people looking for teaching jobs. Everyone wants to live there for a reason.

Good luck in China.

[Patriarch]

I haven't been able to find any decent jobs in major cities, so I'd rather take a decent paying one in central China. I'm not really interested in going to a foreign country and still being surrounded by fat, obnoxious Americans, at least not for the first year. I'm going hardcore trying to learn Mandarin, meaning no English unless absolutely necessary. At any rate, I'll keep you guys updated. I'm either going to love it or wind up switching schools to Guangzhou or Shenzhen for the second semester.

[Suits]

(12-09-2013 11:39 PM)Sweet Pea Wrote:  

I haven't been able to find any decent jobs in major cities, so I'd rather take a decent paying one in central China. I'm not really interested in going to a foreign country and still being surrounded by fat, obnoxious Americans, at least not for the first year. I'm going hardcore trying to learn Mandarin, meaning no English unless absolutely necessary. At any rate, I'll keep you guys updated. I'm either going to love it or wind up switching schools to Guangzhou or Shenzhen for the second semester.

Sounds like a fair plan, although you'd be able to avoid foreigners in EVERY Chinese city, if you made a point of doing so. We're still outnumbered, 1000 to 1, even in places like Beijing.

And the fat Americans tend to be tourists, if you see them at all.

One doesn't see many fatties in China. It's always a big shocker coming back to North America and wondering when the elephant invasion went down.

[Fortitudinal]

Im still bullish on Chengdu. Great nightlife and pretty girls galore, if thats what you seek OP . . .

Here is my datasheet: http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-7574.h...ht=chengdu

[Patriarch]

(12-10-2013 01:34 AM)Fortitudinal Wrote:  

Im still bullish on Chengdu. Great nightlife and pretty girls galore, if thats what you seek OP . . .

Here is my datasheet: http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-7574.h...ht=chengdu

Yeah I read your data sheet, but I can't get any decent offers in Chengdu. Supposedly Wuhan is China's next big metropolis, according to anecdotal evidence. Still haven't signed any contracts, and I just got a ton of offers from Shanghai the past couple hours. I almost wish there were fewer choices.

And I don't know if I missed it, but what kind of salary were you making teaching?

[jdreise]

(12-09-2013 11:13 PM)Sweet Pea Wrote:  

Applying for jobs I wasn't qualified for has started to pay off. I'm most likely taking a job with an international primary school in Wuhan. The pay is 11500 RMB/month, 18 to 25 teaching hours with 5 office hours per week, weekends off. It's a damn shame those jobs in Bangkok never called me back, though. Seems like Thai standards are higher. Thanks for all the info guys. Has anyone else noticed that most of the jobs in Shanghai and Beijing pay less than the tier 2 and 3 cities? Do they really expect people to take a huge pay cut, despite the higher cost of living, just because these cities are more desirable? I wouldn't take a 25% reduction in salary to live in New York over Baltimore.

You can do much better than 10,000-11,500 per month in Shanghai. I just had a look on craigslist and echinacities and there are quite a few with better conditions than that.

What's your major? My company has 4 open positions for subject teaching positions- Math, Science, History, Eng. Lit. Salary is in the range of 18-25k. Salary depends on what you bring to the table and how well you can negotiate. You'd need a suitable major in the humanities or in hard sciences/math, though. Perhaps a solid minor in one of these areas would work but I not making the hiring decisions...

What's your timetable for getting over here? Send me a PM. Perhaps, I can forward your resume.

I have a friend who's married to a successful recruiter. Supposedly, she's having a hell of a time finding qualified people with the new visa law that went into effect on September 1st. For that reason, salaries are going up. You might want to look into the new regulations or start asking recruiters exactly what they are. I've heard that they are no longer able to convert you visa from tourist to work permit in-country--- you have to go all the way back to your home country to complete the process. There are also no more runs to Hong Kong. Shit has tightened up.

Disclaimer: as with anything, there are grey areas. Perhaps, there are companies that are paying off the right guy and can get your visa processed in-country. However, my company just had to pay to send 4 teachers all the way back to the States for 1 week to get it done...

[Fortitudinal]

(12-10-2013 02:35 AM)Sweet Pea Wrote:  

(12-10-2013 01:34 AM)Fortitudinal Wrote:  

Im still bullish on Chengdu. Great nightlife and pretty girls galore, if thats what you seek OP . . .

Here is my datasheet: http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-7574.h...ht=chengdu

Yeah I read your data sheet, but I can't get any decent offers in Chengdu. Supposedly Wuhan is China's next big metropolis, according to anecdotal evidence. Still haven't signed any contracts, and I just got a ton of offers from Shanghai the past couple hours. I almost wish there were fewer choices.

And I don't know if I missed it, but what kind of salary were you making teaching?

I wasnt making much, but had lots of spare time. I think I was making 6K RMB every 2 weeks. Teaching 20 hours a week tops, a few hours after class. Nothing too hard, but not great cash. The big $$$ is in teaching private lessons, I had a few students lined up willing to pay up to 200RMB/hour. That worked out to about $30US/hour

[Patriarch]

OK, here's an update. I have the opportunity to teach in Beijing at several branches of a language center. I've narrowed it down to Wudaokou or the one very close to Sanlitun Street. From experience, which is the better scene? I'm partial to the college vibe of Wudaokou, but Sanlitun sounds fantastic as well. Thoughts?