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Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult
10-05-2013, 09:42 AM
holy crap. "unconditional income" That is an interesting road to go down.
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Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult
10-05-2013, 09:53 AM
If that goes through Ill apply for citizenship!
Since Switzerland has a real democracy (you know, where the people actually have a say in what should go down) this could really happen.
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Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult
10-05-2013, 09:55 AM
I believe that every adult should be allowed a stipend for food and shelter (food stamps and section 8 in the US). In order to receive it, you must do a certain amount of community service. You can opt out of the community service by paying into the system. I find it absurd that as the "richest" country in the world we have homeless and food insecure people. We'll give resources to people half way around the world, but look at similar people in our own country with disdain.
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Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult
10-05-2013, 10:04 AM
They will have to implement hard immigration barriers, if they implement it.
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Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult
10-05-2013, 10:07 AM
Quote: (10-05-2013 10:04 AM)void Wrote:
They will have to implement hard immigration barriers, if they implement it.
They're not in the EU, and are quite a 'racist' country - There isn't much chance of a Scandinavia/UK situation happening there.
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Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult
10-05-2013, 10:08 AM
Time to start looking for a Swiss lizzard.
Switzerland has the money to do it, it's citizen population is small and most are successful. Financial services helps bring a lot money and there are not many permanent immigrants.
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Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult
10-05-2013, 10:12 AM
It's not just about a high minimum wage. It's your income vs the cost of goods and services ...the cost of living.
I agree about locking down the borders. There's always a group that lives below the poverty line that hoards their money or sends it out of the country to support their family instead of reinvesting it into the local economy.
If you want to raise the standard of living just keep money coming into the country and keep it from going out.
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Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult
10-05-2013, 10:52 AM
I like the idea of community service. Make it open to the public with a basic salary. Whoever shows up that day gets work.
My friend had to do court ordered community service twice. Once he separated garbage at a recycling plant. Second time he rocked the orange jump suit and picked up garbage on the side of the highway.
There's obviously a need for labor in these places. Why not open it up to the public?
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Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult
10-05-2013, 10:58 AM
Something like this was advocated by the libertarian economist Milton Friedman. The idea behind it is that the government has all kinds of welfare programs that distort markets, and that they'd be better off replaced by a guaranteed income, where if you make below $X, the government pays you the difference. The government as it is spends something like ten or twenty grand per person per year on welfare payments.
Instead of all these social services, just write them checks. Bye bye medicare, medicaid, social security, disability payments, food stamps, section 8 and even public schooling. You could make a strong argument for employing these people in jobs that are socially valuable but typically low or non paying. Though people who don't want to work will be a great hindrance in the workplace.
Though one great danger I suppose is the electorate voting themselves more and more money at the expense of the rich. You might have to limit voting rights to net taxpayers.
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Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult
10-05-2013, 11:07 AM
Quote: (10-05-2013 10:38 AM)Pacesetter20 Wrote:
And how on Earth would we pay for that?
245,000,000 x $2500 x 12 ~ 7.4 Trillion per year.
We seem to have no issues subsidizing bombs being dropped on 3rd world brown children...
We seem to have no issues subsidizing oil companies while they post record profits while trying to pass the buck for their environmental disasters...
We seem to have no issues subsidizing a for profit prison system full of non violent drug offenders...
We seem to have no issues subsidizing an apartheid state...
We seem to have no issues subsidizing farmers for not growing crops...
You also seem to have missed the part where I said people could opt out by paying into the system. Also your numbers are very misleading (inflated). You claim that 78% of the population would be subsidized when in reality it would probably be 25% at most. Also, the stipend would only cover food and basic housing which would be $1,500/mo on the high end. Most people on section 8 and food stamps get around $1,000/mo. I understand that you love your masters because you somehow think that you will become one of them someday. The fact of the matter is not everyone can make it to the top of the mountain. All I'm suggesting is that everybody should be eligible for the same benefits that the laziest in our society take advantage of, and that they should work for it by performing community service.
10/14/15: The day I learned that convicted terrorists are treated with more human dignity than veterans.
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Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult
10-05-2013, 11:23 AM
You don't starve in America. There are soup kitchens practically everywhere.
Anyways...
It's so easy to send money to someone these days, considering there are virtual currencies like Bitcoin.
I don't agree with this but we'll see what happens.
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Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult
10-05-2013, 02:05 PM
It's not a distraction. If you take move money from one place, you can put it elsewhere. The other part of my plan is it puts people of different classes together and gives them a sense of civic duty. It is certainly possible that someone on the bottom ends up getting a job that they otherwise wouldn't have gotten because someone finally sees them as a human being instead of some drain on society. I'm not saying my plan is perfect and I obviously haven't hashed out all the details. I'm not paid to do so and I know my plan would never happen because the powers that be would have to show some altruism.
I have been one of those less fortunate people and in a way I still am. When I see someone in need I help out as best I can.
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Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult
10-05-2013, 02:09 PM
I'll one up you and add charm school classes on top of gym membership. Having thin, pleasant women is a community service.
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Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult
10-05-2013, 03:02 PM
@Kosko Switzerland has a high percentage of non-native inhabitants, more than most European countries, so I don't see how that equates to having the borders on lockdown
Loads of Italians, Spaniards and South Americans came in over the last few decades, and from what I can see, and from talking to Swiss people I know, many of them are naturalised citizens now and have been for some time
They've also had a lot of Turks and people from the ex-Yugoslavian states moving in in the last twenty years, and here's where you might be right Kosko, I think the Swiss have been a bit slower to grant these guys citizenship, but with good reason, I feel
Certainly some of them are coming to work hard and make their way and that's great, but I see others coming to CH for one reason only, to avail of the very generous social handouts, and sit on their arses doing SFA
And then there's the Roma gypsies, last couple of years a lot of them have come in, and I'm sorry if I rub anyone up the wrong way here, but from what I've seen in CH in recent years(and also in Ireland), these guys are involved in so much petty crime in CH, it's ridiculous
Of course there's honest people amongst their ranks too, but if I was working in the Swiss immigration Dept, these guys would be at the bottom of my list, when it comes to gaining citizenship