[Bad Hussar]

I think part of the problem is that critics of atheism aren't comparing apples to apples. I mean....comparing Joseph Smith or Muhammed to your average atheist at a skeptic gathering. Do you really think that is fair? The differences between the two go way beyond religion. In religion, and cults in general, it is usually the cult leaders and a few others who get most of the action. Just like life in general. You don't need to be a mathematical genius to figure out that if Joseph Smith had 20 wives (or whatever), and assuming they were faithful to him, that there were a lot of frustrated young men in upstate New York, Utah, or wherever the mormons went. People are making the mistake of comparing the winners of group X with the losers of group Y. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

For what it's worth I don't think it makes any difference either way. The winners win and the losers lose and I honestly believe that their religion has so little effect on the results that you may as well say it doesn't matter. Yes, including religions with strict moral codes. The religious winner will simply mentally bend them to his will. In fact even as an atheist that is pretty much my view on religious topics. Religion is overplayed. Both by atheists thinking it's so important that the whole world changes their views to reflect scientific reality(Ha. Good luck with that) or with the very annoying religious people who have the equivalent desire to "convert" people.

[The Beast1]

I guess i'm going to be the one that stands out from the crowd.

I am pretty religious. I try to live by the golden rule (Do unto others), I go to church every Sunday, and I believe Jesus is my savior. Ironically, I do not deserve to enter the kingdom of heaven. I've done a lot of bad things and continue to do a lot of things necessary to live in this world. In my mind, this is a cop out on living towards the teachings of Jesus. It's comforting knowing that there is something after I die, but I won't know if it exists. My friend once told me a quote that really rang true to me:

"Knowing whether there is an afterlife is equivalent to a sailor pondering the chemical make up of water during a hurricane." It's a pointless waste of time when there are more important things to tackle.

I really enjoy going to church even though my priest can be annoyingly beta and a complete pussy when it comes to things that matter. He's a decent speaker and I'll forgive him for the privilege of being around a large group of 20 somethings.

Going to church every Sunday doesn't make me feel comfortable or better about my pointless existence. Heck I don't even see it as an escape from the BS of the world. In fact, going to church makes me incredibly angry. It reminds me of the things I haven't done, the bastardization of Jesus' lessons taught to me early on by a real OLD school theologian, and it makes me angry at the large pool of beta men that are content with just existing in their pitiful lives.

Going to church powers a small part of me to do something about it and be more aggressive at getting what I want. I don't know what it is, but I guess we can call this ambition. I've never talked to anyone about this anger and desire to change the world. I doubt it'll lead to anything significant.

[Samseau]

(09-05-2013 07:16 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Hell, I can't even think of any famous ones.

Clint Eastwood
Steve Mcqueen
70% of the great male actors of 1930's and 1940's (i.e. the golden age of hollywood)

Pretty much the best actors have been conservative and set the standard for how an Alpha male should be. All of the actors today are but pale imitations of the former conservative greats.

If anything there would be a cultural revivial of the arts if conservatives were let into hollywood today, most of the actors around today are a bunch of fags.

[Quintus Curtius]

I liked Roosh's tweets when I saw them and retweeted them. I think there is a lot of truth, a lot, in what he says. But we have to be clear about what we're talking about.
First, it's a sensitive subject because people tend to over-think a lot of this stuff. I don't consider myself a religious person, but I am very interested in history and anthropology. And I like learning about religions. They're a fundamental part of the human experience and have been extremely influential in history in all sorts of ways. We can't escape the fact that man has been believing in some form of higher being ever since the first Cro-Magnon painted fantastic beings on cave walls. Humans need some form of supernatural belief.
When we study the major religions of the world (Christianity, Islam, Confucianism, Hinduism, Judaism), we can definitely see that the "codes of conduct" of these religions all recognized the subversive nature of women. It's just a fact. Read about what traditional Islam, Christianity, and Confucianism have to say about male-female relations. It's totally red-pill.
And that's why, the older I get, I see the wisdom in a lot of this old-school stuff. Men in the days of the "age of faith" had no illusions about feminist bullshit. They knew exactly how to put women in their place and keep society running smoothly.
So, that's why I generally agree with Roosh when he says that the traditional religions are far more "red pill" than atheism. It's just built into the belief systems of the traditional faiths.
I think there's another reason also. And I think many people will not agree with me, but it's just my idea. I think people who believe in something positive (a religion, a philosophy, etc) are going to be more confident, relaxed, and masculine than someone who is a cynical, nihilistic atheist. You just need some sort of code to live by. I'm not a religious believer, but I think it's necessary to believe in something...
And this is why people will not listen to atheists for long. What do they have to offer? I'm telling you, the average person is so beaten down with the struggles and tribulations of life, that he needs some sort of supernatural belief system to console him, give meaning to his life, provide a soothing ritual, and induct him into a community of like-minded believers. Religion performs a necessary social function. It provides a supernatural sanction to a moral code. Without "divine" backing, people aren't going to follow a moral code as scrupulously.

[Samseau]

Now, on the topic of athieism as pertains to red-pill/blue-pill:

Roosh is correct. Most atheists are blue pill, whereas most religious are red pill.

The reason most guys here think religious Christians are blue pill is because YOU'RE COMING FROM AN AMERICAN PERSPECTIVE, but in the rest of the world the religious are by far and away the most grounded when it comes to the sexes. Not just Christians, but Muslims as well.

Also, a lot of people see their priests preach and think they are blue-pill:

Quote:

even though my priest can be annoyingly beta and a complete pussy when it comes to things that matter. He's a decent speaker

But this is just ignorance of how the Church works. When you're on the pulpit talking to wives and tons of women, you can't go around shouting your red pill views. It would just piss off the women and people would vote for your removal. On the pulpit the priest must choose his words carefully.

Why don't you go ask your priest for his views in private? I've done it with several of my priests and they are 100% red-pill, they have zero illusions about women.

Compare that to fags like Richard Dawkins... it is to laugh.

[thegmanifesto]

(09-05-2013 11:39 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 07:16 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Hell, I can't even think of any famous ones.

Clint Eastwood
Steve Mcqueen
70% of the great male actors of 1930's and 1940's (i.e. the golden age of hollywood)

Real short list.

And I have yet to meet any in real life.

That 70% number sounds made up beyond belief. Hollywood has always been a liberal stronghold.

Along with Music, Art, Comedy, Fashion, Culinary Arts, Science, Athletics etc.

[MikeCF]

Look, I grew up in churches

I have straight up seen this happen many times.

A woman gets up and starts gossiping. A man says, "Women are to keep silent in the church."

Or, "Women are to pray and prophesy, not instruct men in the Word."

In what atheist institution have any of you guys been in where men straight up told women to, "Know your place"?

There is undoubtedly an entire website devoted to how sexist the Bible is.

Mainstream Christianity has fallen off. But look into the Bible and tell me if those guys didn't understand the difference between men and women.

[jaakkeli]

Religious people who follow the codes of some really old religion tend to behave in ways that align with actual human nature because any religions that promote unnatural behaviour tend to just die out. However the average religious guy is not red pill as they're just following rules without understanding why they work.

A successful religion is a way of getting average men to imitate the way true red pill people act. Successful religions were either founded by intuitively red pill people or red pill people ended up taking over from some charismatic idealist front man in a very early phase. Once religions get big they tend to turn hostile to red pill people and transform themselves into organizations that slowly drift away from wisdom and eventually they all end up killed by fresher religions.

(09-05-2013 09:23 AM)Sherman Wrote:  

Religion is more red pill in the sense that most religions have a concept of "evil".

"Good" and "evil" ARE the social matrix. They're the definition of blue pill.

On the other hand it's very red pill to be a cult leader dictating good and evil in your cult to your own advantage. You'll have a hard time finding a religious cult where the leaders don't assume sexual privileges with the best of the women and where the submissive men haven't been convinced that forgiving this is a moral "good".

Atheism is neither red or blue pill - just dropping out of the matrix doesn't make you Neo. Actually it can turn you into a miserable loser if you dedicate yourself to political atheism ie the hopeless quest of trying to get the average guy to drop out of the religious matrix when they're better off being in it.

I'd say at least here atheism isn't a great choice for the average man as the average man is not really cut out to be more than a beta provider. The churches are full of sort of Christian girls who may not exactly be virgins but who are still looking for a beta provider guy to settle down with.

[MikeCF]

Let's just get down to brass tacks.

Let's bust out the Holy Bible.

Here are some gems. There are many more:

"Give me any plague, but the plague of the heart: and any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman." (Eccles. 25:13)

"Of the woman came the beginning of sin, and through her we all die." (Eccles. 25:22)

"If she go not as thou wouldest have her, cut her off from thy flesh, and give her a bill of divorce, and let her go." (Eccles. 25: 26)

"The whoredom of a woman may be known in her haughty looks and eyelids. If thy daughter be shameless, keep her in straitly, lest she abuse herself through overmuch liberty." (Eccles. 26:9-10)

"A silent and loving woman is a gift of the Lord: and there is nothing so much worth as a mind well instructed. A shamefaced and faithful woman is a double grace, and her continent mind cannot be valued." (Eccles. 26:14-15)

"A shameless woman shall be counted as a dog; but she that is shamefaced will fear the Lord." (Eccles.26:25)

"For from garments cometh a moth, and from women wickedness. Better is the churlishness of a man than a courteous woman, a woman, I say, which bringeth shame and reproach." (Eccles. 42:13-14)

[MikeCF]

Proverbs 31:10-31

10 A good woman is hard to find, and worth far more than diamonds. 11 Her husband trusts her without reserve, and never has reason to regret it. 12 Never spiteful, she treats him generously all her life long. 13 She shops around for the best yarns and cottons, and enjoys knitting and sewing. 14 She's like a trading ship that sails to faraway places and brings back exotic surprises. 15 She's up before dawn, preparing breakfast for her family and organizing her day. 16 She looks over a field and buys it, then, with money she's put aside, plants a garden. 17 First thing in the morning, she dresses for work, rolls up her sleeves, eager to get started. 18 She senses the worth of her work, is in no hurry to call it quits for the day. 19 She's skilled in the crafts of home and hearth, diligent in homemaking. 20 She's quick to assist anyone in need, reaches out to help the poor. 21 She doesn't worry about her family when it snows; their winter clothes are all mended and ready to wear. 22 She makes her own clothing, and dresses in colorful linens and silks. 23 Her husband is greatly respected when he deliberates with the city fathers. 24 She designs gowns and sells them, brings the sweaters she knits to the dress shops. 25 Her clothes are well-made and elegant, and she always faces tomorrow with a smile. 26 When she speaks she has something worthwhile to say, and she always says it kindly. 27 She keeps an eye on everyone in her household, and keeps them all busy and productive. 28 Her children respect and bless her; her husband joins in with words of praise: 29 "Many women have done wonderful things, but you've outclassed them all!" 30 Charm can mislead and beauty soon fades. The woman to be admired and praised is the woman who lives in the Fear-of-God. 31 Give her everything she deserves! Festoon her life with praises!

[soup]

(09-05-2013 09:23 AM)Sherman Wrote:  

Religion is more red pill in the sense that most religions have a concept of "evil". It's possible to be an atheist who believes there is no such thing as evil, but the atheist is really being shielded from the reality by protectors he does not see. It's really a child-like view of the world and not red-pill at all. Also, consider the notion of the devil in the Bible as someone who is actually very beautiful and the beauty masks the darkness so you can't see it until it is too late. Even if you are an atheist, you have to admit that is a pretty good description of things you can experience in your everyday world.

If you believe in or worship god you are more gay than a man who doesn't.

Let's separate the social institutions from the belief. The only reason people are saying that the religion is more redpill is because it currently preserves the archaic social structure.

Watch, as the world becomes more feminized, religious institutions will follow. They will do what ever the can to stay in power. As more people become educated about religion, the power structures that don't adopt to modern sensibilities will crumble.

Why do you think the religious are freaking out so much and employing terrorist tactics to try to hold on to control?

The cat is out of the bag. God is a semantic hiccup.

If Galactus came to Earth, would you worship him or would you recognize him as existing in our reality.. just another more powerful creature?.

Religion is for the slave, submissive mentality. If you really want to be alpha, recognize that there is no Santa Claus. If you believe in god, why not believe in the tooth fairy as well?

It's like those "transgendered" people who believe that, just because they dress like the opposite sex, or have had their dick cutt off and replaced with an internal pouch, they changed their sex. It's all fantasy.

----


I do think that players can recognize the power "god" has on the submissive mind. The guys with best game are the closest thing to god that we have. They are the complete masters of their women, or women as an entity.


Also, under religious rule, players would be rounded up and executed. How is that redpill?

[Samseau]

On the topic of atheism "being the rational choice": Not even close.

Theists believe in a higher power that exists outside the detection of our five senses.

Atheists believe that nothing exists outside of our five senses.

Obviously, according to current scientific research, atheists are already wrong. We know from current Quantam Theory that the world operates much different than how we percieve it. What we know from our senses (sight sound touch taste smell) is only a very limited picture of how the world actually is. The world is almost certainly vastly different than how we percieve it.

Most atheists haven't put much thought into the matter, and are intellectually lazy who just want to take the path of least resistance. Saying, "there is no god" is really easy when you bury your head in the sand.

But if you actually take the time to think about the limits and scope of human knowledge, you'll quickly see that the odds are far higher in favor of there being a God than not.

- Giant fucking universe with over 1 trillion galaxies (no one knows what is out there)
- Age of universe billions of years old (no one really knows how old this place is)
- Some shit about a big bang? (I.e. no one knows wtf is going on)
- Huge mess of inter-space matter that collides to form stars and planets (no one knows what is going on)
- Optimal conditions arrive on a planet in the middle of the universe we call earth and somehow life develops (more guessing)
- Life is structured in a way that it can evolve into more complex lifeforms (no one knows what is going on)
- Somehow a lifeform evolves that is self-reflective and rational, i.e. man (the human mind is still one of the greatest mysteries in existence)


And people want to tell me this is all an accident?



Guys... if you traveled to the middle of the anartatic and saw a house, would you just assume it magically appeared out of the sky? Or would you assume someone created it?

Althought it cannot be "proved scientifically" that the universe was created by a being, science is really pretty worthless when it comes to human knowledge and sometimes you have to figure things out without science before it becomes scientific fact. (A great example of this is Game; all figured out without controlled experiments.)

The vast majority of great scientists were all believers in some kind of ultimate God. Not a surprise really, because the longer one studies how amazing this universe is the easier it becomes to believe in a God.

Quote:

Your question [about God] is the most difficult in the world. It is not a question I can answer simply with yes or no. I am not an Atheist. I do not know if I can define myself as a Pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. May I not reply with a parable? The human mind, no matter how highly trained, cannot grasp the universe. We are in the position of a little child, entering a huge library whose walls are covered to the ceiling with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written those books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books, a mysterious order, which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of the human mind, even the greatest and most cultured, toward God. We see a universe marvelously arranged, obeying certain laws, but we understand the laws only dimly. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that sways the constellations.

- Albert Einstien

[sixsix]

(09-05-2013 12:08 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Let's just get down to brass tacks.

Let's bust out the Holy Bible.

Yeah, the bible has some smart insights into human nature.

But religious people (it's 2013) don't even know that book.

Red Pill is about reality. Religion is about blindly following others.

[Samseau]

(09-05-2013 11:51 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

That 70% number sounds made up beyond belief. Hollywood has always been a liberal stronghold.

Not during the golden age of hollywood (30's and 40's). It was much more 50/50.

[MikeCF]

(09-05-2013 12:15 PM)sixsix Wrote:  

But religious people (it's 2013) don't even know that book.

Neither do atheists.

(09-05-2013 12:15 PM)sixsix Wrote:  

Red Pill is about reality. Religion is about blindly following others.

Atheists are just as blind as the religious.

[soup]

(09-05-2013 12:13 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

On the topic of atheism "being the rational choice": Not even close.

Theists believe in a higher power that exists outside the detection of our five senses.

Atheists believe that nothing exists outside of our five senses.

Just not true.

Atheists invented the idea of sky hooks to talk about things that exist that we have yet to comprehend, instead of creating a fantasy answer. They recognize that our perceptive capabalities are actually pretty limited at this time.


The real problem with god is that just because a war of opinions, and nobody can win that. It's my god vs. your god. etc.

You can't have something doesn't exist in reality. Nothing can exist outside of existence.


Also, if there was some over-arching conscious power, why would you worship it? Do you want a master?

[Wutang]

I am a theist. I think if your picture of God is of a literal human being with the white beard up in the sky then yeah it is pretty gay to be worshiping him since you are indeed worshiping a man - a super-powered man but still someone like us only with more capabilities. However there is not my view of God nor is it the classical view of God being espoused in the monotheistic religions. In fact I think a lot of the disagreements you see on the internet between theists and atheists constantly on the internet comes down to the fact that the two groups have very different images of God. The atheists imagine God as nothing more then an extended human being with extra powers rather than a being that is qualitatively different from us. I don't think it's any coincidence that when such people describe God it's almost always in anthropomorphic terms of a limited, human like being that is somehow "out there" in the same space that we are ("old guy", "magic wizard", etc.)

[thegmanifesto]

(09-05-2013 12:16 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 11:51 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

That 70% number sounds made up beyond belief. Hollywood has always been a liberal stronghold.

Not during the golden age of hollywood (30's and 40's). It was much more 50/50.

Ha.

I knocked you down 20% pretty quick.

We keep up this conversation and you will be at 10%, which is probably accurate.

[soup]

(09-05-2013 12:18 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 12:15 PM)sixsix Wrote:  

But religious people (it's 2013) don't even know that book.

Neither do atheists.

(09-05-2013 12:15 PM)sixsix Wrote:  

Red Pill is about reality. Religion is about blindly following others.

Atheists are just as blind as the religious.

Yes, but atheists will admit what they don't know and religious people will put a story in that empty space.

[Wutang]

I'd say someone like Martin Luther is pretty red-pill, here's a story of him trolling his wife:

"Martin Luther said, "The time will come when a man will take more than one wife." [Katharina] responded, "Let the devil believe that!" The doctor said, "The reason, Katie, is that a woman can bear a child only once a year while her husband can beget many." Katie responded, "Paul said that each man should have his own wife." To this the doctor replied, "Yes, 'his own wife' and not 'only one wife,' for the latter isn't what Paul wrote." The doctor kidded for a long time and finally the doctor's wife said, "Before I put up with this, I'd rather go back to the convent and leave you and all our children."

[sixsix]

(09-05-2013 12:18 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 12:15 PM)sixsix Wrote:  

But religious people (it's 2013) don't even know that book.

Neither do atheists.

But then again: Atheists aren't called followers. The idea of being a Christian is following the word of their god (the bible). The same for muslims and the quran.

And surprise: You are wrong.

"Atheists, agnostics most knowledgeable about religion, survey says"

(09-05-2013 12:18 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 12:15 PM)sixsix Wrote:  

Red Pill is about reality. Religion is about blindly following others.

Atheists are just as blind as the religious.

Proof by assertion.

Let's get some facts.

Quote:

A survey of Royal Society fellows found that only 3.3 per cent believed in God – at a time when 68.5 percent of the general UK population described themselves as believers. A separate poll in the 90s found only seven percent of members of the American National Academy of Sciences believed in God.

Professor Lynn said most primary school children believed in God, but as they entered adolescence – and their intelligence increased – many started to have doubts.[sixsix: lol primary school children]

(Source)

Most Americans believe in god, but only 7% of the National Academy of Sciences.
Most British people believe in god, but only 3% of the Royal Society (top scientists).

And these aren't lefty liberal arts. These are the hard sciences. The people that make your notebook, smartphone and airplanes.

[Samseau]

(09-05-2013 12:34 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 12:16 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 11:51 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

That 70% number sounds made up beyond belief. Hollywood has always been a liberal stronghold.

Not during the golden age of hollywood (30's and 40's). It was much more 50/50.

Ha.

I knocked you down 20% pretty quick.

We keep up this conversation and you will be at 10%, which is probably accurate.

No, 50/50 in terms of most actors, but 70% of the men.

[Samseau]

(09-05-2013 12:34 PM)soup Wrote:  

Atheists invented the idea of sky hooks to talk about things that exist that we have yet to comprehend, instead of creating a fantasy answer. They recognize that our perceptive capabalities are actually pretty limited at this time.

Skyhook sounds like another word for "higher being."

Quote:

You can't have something doesn't exist in reality. Nothing can exist outside of existence.

No one knows what exists in reality.

Quote:

Also, if there was some over-arching conscious power, why would you worship it? Do you want a master?

You wouldn't give respects to your parents?

[sixsix]

Samseau, I always appreciate your game insights, but maybe you should read some books about how the world works. Your long comment is so inane I'm not even going to try and discuss it. Step up your brain game, yo.

edit: to sound like less of a dick: there's tons of research on astronomy, fundamental particle physics and consiousness and you completely disregard that knowledge base by saying "no one knows wtf is going on" while you just lack any grasp of those fields. and then you say atheists are lazy and shove their heads in the sand. right.

[Samseau]

(09-05-2013 12:43 PM)sixsix Wrote:  

Samseau, I always appreciate your game insights, but maybe you should read some books about how the world works. Your long comment is so inane I'm not even going to try and discuss it. Step up your brain game, yo.

Sounds like you're burying your head in the sand. Just another atheist