[BostonBMW]

No, I'm not referring to that dope HBO show with Kid Cudi, but rather a series of things that you can do to achieve financial stability. The only thing you need is a job, and some discipline. I have done every single one of these things myself and they are tested and true:

Live with a Roommate

I don't care if you're pulling in six figures, you should not be spending too much on housing. Either get a roommate or have enough dinero stacked that you can buy your own spot. Why? Paying rent to live in a dope spot may impress women (of the gold digger variety) however it will reduce your discretionary income. Save those $s and buy a spot of your own. That way, each dollar that your paying for your mortgage will be going towards something.

Advice: Rent a well located (near bars/colleges) spot with 1-2 roommates who are cool with your player lifestyle, responsible with the bills. This will allow you to bounce females back to your spot, keep your bills (rent, utilities etc.) down, and ensure a strong foothold in social circle game through your roommates. I have never had any issues bring girls back to the crib. In Boston, having roommates is common and almost expected.

Don't Use Your Debit Card

Either use cash or credit cards with rewards. If you use credit cards, make sure that your spending does not exceed what you can pay within that month, or else use cash. You want to manage your expenses well, which means using strict budgeting (some credit cards give you a nice breakdown of your spending.USE that tool). While using a debit card means that you are more likely to overspend than cash yet getting none of the rewards that the credit cards give you.

Advice: I'm not going to endorse any credit cards because one man's Amtrak rewards credit card might be another man's junk. However I do recommend that you sign up for: http://www.upromise.com and buy from http://www.fatwallet.com

Alter your Game

To stack up, you can not afford to be going out and spending that hard earned cash. Instead try day game with dinner dates at your crib. Or if you must go out at night, pregame and either go early (9-11 PM if last call is at 2 AM) or late (1:15 AM). Why? If you go early, you can avoid paying cover at spots and swoop up the fine chicas, before it becomes a weesh sausage fest or if you go near last call, you can run my patented street game where you're inviting girls back to your spot to "keep the party going" especially if they're in the 18-21 range

Advice: Invest in a solid bar: 1 Vodka, 1 Gin, 1 Rum, 1 Tequila to cover the liquor family. Buy some name brand shit (Grey Goose, Tanqueray) once and refill the bottles with cheaper booze (girls won't know the difference, and you will have maximum mixability with these liquors). For wines, just get a red, white and champagne that is French or Italian yet costs less than $20/bottle. I don't do beer, but feel free to buy whatever crap that is popular. As an added touch, invest in an actual bar. I got something like this: http://www.quill.com/wine-cabinets/cbs/3..._OF_374261 on the cheap. Looks classic, yet functional. Your initial outlay here should be less than $500, if you spend more your doing it wrong. Your cost per drink will be about $2 dollars (did the math for you). Have some coconut water to cure those hangovers.

Put Money in Your 401K/Retirement Plan

Especially if its pretax dollars and/or your company is matching a % of your salary. By putting $$ away early you are starting to amass some investments while reducing your tax exposure, developing a good saving habit, and in the case of employer match, getting what is literally free money.

Advice: I'm a get rich slow kind of a guy, who is very busy, So I came up with a basic investment strategy that is called value investing (google: Ben Graham). This is what Warren Buffet has used to amass billions. Do your research and pick a basket of sticks and keep investing in it. If you're too busy to do that, invest in a no load (fee) Index fund that tracks the market (like the SP 500 or the Russell 3000) and set aside dollars directly from your paycheck to fund the investments. By setting aside the same amount,you can take advantage of what is called dollar cost averaging and pay minimal fees to manage the account. Besides, most mutual fund (even hedge funds) don't beat the market and you won't have time to actively manage the portfolio,if you follow my advice.

Develop a side hustle

Even if you're doing well financially, invest your time/money in developing a secondary revenue stream. In these uncertain times, you need to be able to have some financial security. I don't care if its a second job as a security guard, a website, a business, or even a part time Masters degree - if you're not spending 10-20 hours a week on a side project you're doing it wrong. Who knows, your side hustle might become your main hustle?

Advice: Over the past year, I have been working on finishing up a Masters degree in STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math) which means more $$ when I graduate, working on an online business, and researching real estate investments with a plan to jump in soon. Yes, I don't have much time but I'm making money instead of spending it in my free time.

Figure out your minimum and save a years worth

Calculate the absolute minimum $ you need to survive each month and save up for it. By minimum, I'm talking shelter (you should be living with roommates), food (cook your own meals, drink filter not bottled water), and entertainment (build that bar, buy condoms in bulk, having females come over to your crib). By saving for year, you are buying some flexibility in case you lose your job, want to qquit your job to pursue the side hustle full time, or just want the security of knowing that you won't be homeless begging for change.

Advice: I have been slowly adapting a minimalist lifestyle (http://mnmlist.com/) which means:

1. Selling off my electronics, possessions
2. Donating clothes to goodwill
3. Not buying new toys/a Car

One exception is books, I still buy them -- used (at fraction of their cost) and eventually will donate them to the library unless they have incredibly useful reference/source material. Every dollar that I spend needs to be justified -- I am not being cheap. just frugal by doing a cost-benefit analysis


Find the cheapest Gym and go there at least 3X a week

You need to get in shape and stay that way. Don't spend too much money in Gym memberships. As long as you can find a spot with a treadmill (for cardio year round) and decent weights you should be in good shape (no pun intended).

Advice: Do your research on line (http://lifehacker.com/5841439/five-best-...services), define your goals (get a six pack etc.) and set up 1 training session with a reputable personal trainer. Use that 1 session to get feedback on your form and the feasibility of workout plan. Remember those websites might give good information, however you need someone to review what you are doing, have the right form/diet etc. Maximize this session to get feedback and never look back. Work out regardless of the weather, how you feel, how busy you are --trust me, your body will thank you for it.

Have at least 1 Girl in your rotation that is down with your lifestyle

I bet I'm going to get flak for this one but you need that down chick, preferably one that has those nurturing values like cooking, cleaning etc. Now before anyone accuses me of one-its, hear me out: Usually these girls come from immigrant families/are immigrants themselves/are in traditional women jobs like teacher, nurses/are traditionalists from the Midwest, South. Lock one down (don't wife her) and make sure that she knows that you're an ambitious fella.

Advice: I got me a solid 7 in the rotation, who cooks, cleans, and gives me a massage when I'm beat up from the day. She's a teacher and originally from Kansas, so she has plenty of time to do that shit. I have sex on tap (I smash that tight ass whenever I feel like it). She knows that I'm a busy with my school, side hustle and gym -- doesn't even think that I'm out there picking up random chicas whenever I feel like. What she does know is that I am a man with options, as I open flirt when I'm out with her.

Go for the SNLs and be Flaky

Advice:
Allow me to break it down: If you meet a girl during night game, go hard for the bang, if she's not down -- on to the next one. With day game, get her number and follow up only your same night game is not panning out. My game is exclusive to 18-23 year olds. I don't get frustrated by their bullshit because I am playing on their level: being predatory with booze during the night (escalate and try to bounce to my crib) or keeping them as standbys from day game. If all fails, I'm smashing my school teacher or going back to crib to actually work on my side hustle. Tell me how I'm losing out?


This is just a snapshot of the things that I am actually doing in my life. Fellas, I ask you share your insights, no keyboard jockeying please -- something that you're actually doing to build financial security and success.

[Architekt]

I thought you were just gonna summarize this thread

[Dick Stroker]

What is your current occupation and what is your degree in - the undergrad? What percentage of your income comes from your job?

[worldwidetraveler]

Sounds like a terrible way to live.

You have to strike a balance between living now and preparing for the future. The roomate is a no go. Maybe for a young guy in his early twenties.

Getting a side hustle on top of working full time and game will be difficult.

This seems to focus too much on living too frugally instead of striking a balance.

I think the key is knowing what you want. If you want a lifestyle that is independent of location, you should start building your skill set to allow that as early as possible.

[GyopoPlayboy]

lotta truth here, except i woulda just called it "how to make it anywhere!" my 2 cents:

1. Invest in your pad, not just the bar. Decorate it with things that reflect you as a person and that serve as interesting conversation starters. I have a 50-gallon reef tank in my room and when girls come over, they think it's the coolest thing they've ever seen. I also put in cool purple neon LED mood lighting behind the bed and below it. My room looks like an aquarium. I also have a 50-inch TV, but the tank is really the crowd-pleaser. there are cheaper ways to set up your pad, what i listed above is just my own situation.

2. Sit down and really understand your finances. Figure out your burn rate, what you're spending money on, and log all of this stuff down. You will/may get angry with yourself when you see how trivial a lot of your expenses are. I was. Doesn't mean live like a cheapskate afterwards. Knowing how your money is entering and leaving your bank account(s) only helps you when you're making big financial decisions later. I wish schools would teach practical shit like this when we're in high school or college, but that's a whole nother topic.

3. there's a lot of talk about side hustle on rvf, which i get. but i've chosen to double-down on my current situation because things are going great and my expertise is in my high demand. this is going to go against rvf mantra, but i'm a big believer in specializing and focusing on one particular skill/area and not just getting good at it but getting well-known for being good at it. this helps me negotiate higher wages and weigh offers from the competition. if you're going to look into a side hustle, i'd just be smart about it. it takes a lot of time and effort to become good enough to offer something of value to others, so if it's something totally outside of your area, it'll eat up a lot of your time. like many of you, i like to study successful people and see how they did things, and one of the common elements i see is dedication to one single thing, and then branching out later.

so in summary, it's 1) invest in your pad since its where you spend at least 1/3 of your life and something you want girls to find exciting and cool, 2) have a solid handle on your financial situation, and 3) get really really good at one thing and you probably won't need a side hustle.

[BostonBMW]

(08-19-2013 03:54 AM)Architekt Wrote:  

I thought you were just gonna summarize this thread

Buy a gun + start robbing

[BostonBMW]

(08-19-2013 04:27 AM)Dick Stroker Wrote:  

What is your current occupation and what is your degree in - the undergrad? What percentage of your income comes from your job?

Corp. Finance. Degree in Finance.

Right now 75% of my income comes from the job. 25% from Online Business. Plan is to diversify the income stream by bringing Real Estate in the mix.

Goal is to completely replace the income from the job in 5 years.

[BostonBMW]

(08-19-2013 07:53 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

Sounds like a terrible way to live.

You have to strike a balance between living now and preparing for the future. The roomate is a no go. Maybe for a young guy in his early twenties.

Getting a side hustle on top of working full time and game will be difficult.

This seems to focus too much on living too frugally instead of striking a balance.

I think the key is knowing what you want. If you want a lifestyle that is independent of location, you should start building your skill set to allow that as early as possible.

I'm not sure what is terrible about it. I'm not being defensive here, just genuinely curious about what might be a better lifestyle.

- Roommates: What is so bad about roommates if you're living with an equally chill guy, who is splitting the bills, while you stack up for a place of your own. Having a roommate also allows you to rent a place that is well located, reduces ancillary expenses like utilities, booze etc.

- You're right that I focus on the future, however its a 60/40 split with 60% building for the future. My current includes: meeting new women, spending time with my current top chica, hitting the gym and reading books for the pleasure. Sure, my time is at a premium and I'm always on the go, but its with a purpose.

I want a lifestyle, where my side hustles will eventually replace my income from the job. It will also give me some location independence as well, so this lifestyle fits me well. Do let me know if you have something better in mind.

[BostonBMW]

(08-19-2013 08:14 AM)GyopoPlayboy Wrote:  

lotta truth here, except i woulda just called it "how to make it anywhere!" my 2 cents:

1. Invest in your pad, not just the bar. Decorate it with things that reflect you as a person and that serve as interesting conversation starters. I have a 50-gallon reef tank in my room and when girls come over, they think it's the coolest thing they've ever seen. I also put in cool purple neon LED mood lighting behind the bed and below it. My room looks like an aquarium. I also have a 50-inch TV, but the tank is really the crowd-pleaser. there are cheaper ways to set up your pad, what i listed above is just my own situation.

2. Sit down and really understand your finances. Figure out your burn rate, what you're spending money on, and log all of this stuff down. You will/may get angry with yourself when you see how trivial a lot of your expenses are. I was. Doesn't mean live like a cheapskate afterwards. Knowing how your money is entering and leaving your bank account(s) only helps you when you're making big financial decisions later. I wish schools would teach practical shit like this when we're in high school or college, but that's a whole nother topic.

3. there's a lot of talk about side hustle on rvf, which i get. but i've chosen to double-down on my current situation because things are going great and my expertise is in my high demand. this is going to go against rvf mantra, but i'm a big believer in specializing and focusing on one particular skill/area and not just getting good at it but getting well-known for being good at it. this helps me negotiate higher wages and weigh offers from the competition. if you're going to look into a side hustle, i'd just be smart about it. it takes a lot of time and effort to become good enough to offer something of value to others, so if it's something totally outside of your area, it'll eat up a lot of your time. like many of you, i like to study successful people and see how they did things, and one of the common elements i see is dedication to one single thing, and then branching out later.

so in summary, it's 1) invest in your pad since its where you spend at least 1/3 of your life and something you want girls to find exciting and cool, 2) have a solid handle on your financial situation, and 3) get really really good at one thing and you probably won't need a side hustle.

Dropping some real knowledge here. I agree on your points and wanted to add that by honing in on one skill, you are also strengthening your rep in that field which may allow you to become a consultant/independent contractor if you don't get the raises etc. You do have an effective side hustle, whether you choose to activate or not, is up to you. I guess the key here is all about investing your time in something that will give you a better return in the long run.

[WestCoast]

Overall a decent list. I wouldn't live with a roomate though (unless I was in a foreign country trying to learn a new language).

This is just another life goals dependent post though, ie people like wwt would never do what you're suggesting.

Just outline your goals in life and strive to them.

I agree much more with you that most money is wasted. I have no interest in dropping loads of money partying and my goals are similar to yours, all passive income by 30's so I don't have to work period ever again.

I can't stand waking up everyday and having to work for someone, this includes some online businesses I'm running. The goal for me is to work for no one, ever, not even a business 24/7/365.

That again makes me agree with your views.

[BostonBMW]

(08-19-2013 09:02 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  

Overall a decent list. I wouldn't live with a roomate though (unless I was in a foreign country trying to learn a new language).

This is just another life goals dependent post though, ie people like wwt would never do what you're suggesting.

Just outline your goals in life and strive to them.

I agree much more with you that most money is wasted. I have no interest in dropping loads of money partying and my goals are similar to yours, all passive income by 30's so I don't have to work period ever again.

I can't stand waking up everyday and having to work for someone, this includes some online businesses I'm running. The goal for me is to work for no one, ever, not even a business 24/7/365.

That again makes me agree with your views.

Thanks WC.

I'm surprised to see the resistance on roommates, perhaps that's related to my location in a higher cost metro area. I suppose if were earning the same amount of money in Iowa, I'd be more willing to live by on my own.

I am of the opinion that working for someone should be a means to an end: namely replacing your income through multiple income streams. Once you accomplish that, you're effectively retired (whether you choose work another day or not). In the meantime, I recommend using the benefits (stable paycheck, perhaps a bonus, 401K/Retirement, Medical/Dental) that come with working for someone.

[WestCoast]

Yeah I just live in a city where living alone makes it easier to get lays. Just a location thing.

I am with you pretty much 100%. (I live in a centrally located studio and have no reason to leave)

To be honest I am becoming more extreme than even your post suggests given the changes around my city. So I won't even put up my lifestyle here people will think I'm nuts ha.

Then again you do have to be nuts if you want to end the rat race early with a livable investment income.

[worldwidetraveler]

(08-19-2013 08:46 AM)BostonBMW Wrote:  

I'm not sure what is terrible about it. I'm not being defensive here, just genuinely curious about what might be a better lifestyle.

- Roommates: What is so bad about roommates if you're living with an equally chill guy, who is splitting the bills, while you stack up for a place of your own. Having a roommate also allows you to rent a place that is well located, reduces ancillary expenses like utilities, booze etc.

- You're right that I focus on the future, however its a 60/40 split with 60% building for the future. My current includes: meeting new women, spending time with my current top chica, hitting the gym and reading books for the pleasure. Sure, my time is at a premium and I'm always on the go, but its with a purpose.

I want a lifestyle, where my side hustles will eventually replace my income from the job. It will also give me some location independence as well, so this lifestyle fits me well. Do let me know if you have something better in mind.

I'm glad you took it the way it was intended and didn't get defensive.

I put all my time into my own business. It is an asset that is mine instead of using my skills for someone else. I rather focus my efforts into one thing instead of trying to hustle for cash here and there. There is a synergy that happens when focusing your efforts.

There is only so much time in the day for everyone of us. There isn't enough time in the day for work, side hustles and gaming on top of other hobbies and interests.

I think being frugal for frugal sake is a bad move.

For example, if you are into game, you want a central located place even if it costs more. If you are out 15 - 30 minutes away from the hot spots, you have to travel there and the expenses will add up. You just cut your time away from other things.

Paying more for a centrally located place will allow you to game every time you step out. You don't have to slot time away for just game, but can incorporate it into your daily activities. You just saved some time to do other things. You may also enjoy living there as well.

It will cost you more, but that may end up allowing you to make more money since you freed up time.

[DVY]

I agree w/the points. But there is a frugality inflection point where it starts cutting into your fun/ease of pulling.

Heres 1 thought- When I go out, I've made the conscious effort to drop a little more dough on tips/bribes. Whats the difference between 1 dollar tip for drinks and a 3 dollar tip- basically nothing. And yet, dropping a little more on tips means 20x better service, possiblity of free hookups (well covers the 2 dollar tip), and creates tons of goodwill.

^^^Funny thing is Ill try not to buy more than 1 drink at the bar/club per night (restaurants don't count). But if you need to hop to the bar and grab a quick drink w/some chick. The bartender will always run over and try to make you look good.

Corollary to the above, first 2 times I leave a hot club/bar. Ill drop a 20 into the main bouncer's hand when leaving. This makes skipping lines much easier. Ups to MikeCF for this as its very effective.

[jimukr104]

Ok I am GOING to make a few comments here and there..nothing discounting what you said.
I agree bit with Worldwide.
For adults having a roommate doesn't work. To be honest I don't know one guy who ever had a roommate situation that was ideal and when they are close to ideal you end up losing the roommate anyway. Ok for guys in thier early maybe mid 20's though.
Buy a home??WRONG.Buying a home to live in isn't a good investment. Almost every financial investor agrees. In some markets after the bubble(Ls Vegas,Florida) it was cheaper to own but in most 1st tier cities it is NOT.
That whole you are paying your self BS line is just that. In most charts unless you are staying in the same home about 10 years ...you will lose money.You also lose money by not having it available to invest someplace else.
Second.... on average in most areas home appreciation barely beats inflation... you can take the money and earn more in other investments.
third.... A single person will rent a small flat. If you buy you end up either in a condo with high fees or a large house with large bills. Its not like you are moving from your 1 bedroom into a 1 bedroom home.It ends up being an upgrade that costs more.

Agree put the money in 401k if you GET am match. But if you don't take the money and put it in an IRA (vanguard is best).No reason the have money in a company account , with the often high fees that go along with it. Also most 401k actually have poor investment choices.

Gym...most will disagree with me. Unless you using it to game chicks...MOST are wastes of money for most people. If your a body builder and you need every variation of free weights,etc available go ahead join. But most people stop going to the gym after a while or they take breaks.Many just waste a bit of time there.
Much more cheaper to buy a fold up bench(that has barbell support), a pull up bar, dip bar, and free weights.i have a portable dip bar that actually hooks onto my pull up bar. All the equipment I have works the major muscle groups and most compound exercises.
Bench=175
pull up bar= 20
dip bar=40
weights=200 (you can variate on this)
total=500 and will last indefinitely. But most important NO matter what the weather I work out. I also finish my workout in the time it would take me to actually walk 5 blocks to the gym and change in the locker room. Not counting the wait to use the bench press where most guys too busy to spot others.Oh yeah I can sip my protein shakes at my leisure.

[WestCoast]

I agree with most of what Jim wrote.

I don't agree on the 401K stuff because you can avoid taxes. How? You simply stack into 401k, when you hit your "exit number - fuck you money - walk away number" whatever you want to call it. You can now play the 5 year roll over layaway game.

You sit and don't work (0 taxable income) then roll over the 401K in portions up to the lower brackets say 15% at 35K.

Do this over and over and now all that money is liquid in 5 years due to rollover rules. Already talked about this trick on another thread.

But rest of advice is solid, buying a home in an expensive city like NYC/SF/LA usually has bad rent to buy calculations. If you're young it's even more foolish as you lose your mobility.

Also disagree a bit on the gym, becaus you can't set up a gym in a studio apartment, ha. Just sign up for the closest one near you, luckily mine is across the street.

[jimukr104]

^^ Actually you be surprised:
http://www.dipsbar.com/ (i have a whole different one)


http://www.gtechfitness.com/body-solid-b...4Aod0jwA2g ( fits right around the radiator)

Seriously, takes up little room.

[WestCoast]

^ ha nice. Yeah I am a gym rat though. $0.50 a day membership ain't breaking the bank. I miss 5 days a year max. To each his own!

[worldwidetraveler]

(08-20-2013 04:12 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Gym...most will disagree with me. Unless you using it to game chicks...MOST are wastes of money for most people. If your a body builder and you need every variation of free weights,etc available go ahead join. But most people stop going to the gym after a while or they take breaks.Many just waste a bit of time there.
Much more cheaper to buy a fold up bench(that has barbell support), a pull up bar, dip bar, and free weights.i have a portable dip bar that actually hooks onto my pull up bar. All the equipment I have works the major muscle groups and most compound exercises.
Bench=175
pull up bar= 20
dip bar=40
weights=200 (you can variate on this)
total=500 and will last indefinitely. But most important NO matter what the weather I work out. I also finish my workout in the time it would take me to actually walk 5 blocks to the gym and change in the locker room. Not counting the wait to use the bench press where most guys too busy to spot others.Oh yeah I can sip my protein shakes at my leisure.

I ended up buying a squat rack and olympic weights. I can do just about all I need to do with that equipment. I never went to the gym for social reasons so this saved me time and money even if it cost more in the beginning.

I think some people just focus too much on retiring early. You are basically trying to buy time. That is what money is good for and people are sacrificing their time to buy time later. I just think we sometimes go overboard on the sacrifice.

[BostonBMW]

(08-19-2013 09:20 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(08-19-2013 08:46 AM)BostonBMW Wrote:  

I'm not sure what is terrible about it. I'm not being defensive here, just genuinely curious about what might be a better lifestyle.

- Roommates: What is so bad about roommates if you're living with an equally chill guy, who is splitting the bills, while you stack up for a place of your own. Having a roommate also allows you to rent a place that is well located, reduces ancillary expenses like utilities, booze etc.

- You're right that I focus on the future, however its a 60/40 split with 60% building for the future. My current includes: meeting new women, spending time with my current top chica, hitting the gym and reading books for the pleasure. Sure, my time is at a premium and I'm always on the go, but its with a purpose.

I want a lifestyle, where my side hustles will eventually replace my income from the job. It will also give me some location independence as well, so this lifestyle fits me well. Do let me know if you have something better in mind.

I'm glad you took it the way it was intended and didn't get defensive.

I put all my time into my own business. It is an asset that is mine instead of using my skills for someone else. I rather focus my efforts into one thing instead of trying to hustle for cash here and there. There is a synergy that happens when focusing your efforts.

There is only so much time in the day for everyone of us. There isn't enough time in the day for work, side hustles and gaming on top of other hobbies and interests.

I think being frugal for frugal sake is a bad move.

For example, if you are into game, you want a central located place even if it costs more. If you are out 15 - 30 minutes away from the hot spots, you have to travel there and the expenses will add up. You just cut your time away from other things.

Paying more for a centrally located place will allow you to game every time you step out. You don't have to slot time away for just game, but can incorporate it into your daily activities. You just saved some time to do other things. You may also enjoy living there as well.

It will cost you more, but that may end up allowing you to make more money since you freed up time.

I think your clarification gives a better understanding why you have a different viewpoint. For you it's time/convenience > money, most likely because you're coming from an entrepreneurial mindset. However my advice is not for the established business owner/entrepreneur - it's for the working man saving money/attempting to shift over to the entrepreneurial mindset.

On a related note, sacrifices are based on individual perception. You may see some of my bullet points as huge sacrifices that are not congruent to your lifestyle, however others may see it fitting in well with their goals/ambitions. No right or wrong here.

[BostonBMW]

Some good points made here. I'd like to keep the discussion going. I'll address your points with some counterpoints:

For adults having a roommate doesn't work. To be honest I don't know one guy who ever had a roommate situation that was ideal and when they are close to ideal you end up losing the roommate anyway. Ok for guys in thier early maybe mid 20's though.

This may have been your experience, however this does not mean that stable roommate situations don't exist. There are plenty of people who have roommates in there late 20s and beyond, where things have worked out. I'm not referring to "ideal" situations, I'm taking about chill roommate + money saved on rent = cash available for real estate purchases. There are plenty of guys who are living with roommates for decades for a multitude of reasons (saving $, can't afford to live on their own, travel frequently etc.) particularly in SF/NYC/Bos.

Buy a home??WRONG.Buying a home to live in isn't a good investment. Almost every financial investor agrees. In some markets after the bubble(Ls Vegas,Florida) it was cheaper to own but in most 1st tier cities it is NOT.
That whole you are paying your self BS line is just that. In most charts unless you are staying in the same home about 10 years ...you will lose money.You also lose money by not having it available to invest someplace else.
Second.... on average in most areas home appreciation barely beats inflation... you can take the money and earn more in other investments.
third.... A single person will rent a small flat. If you buy you end up either in a condo with high fees or a large house with large bills. Its not like you are moving from your 1 bedroom into a 1 bedroom home.It ends up being an upgrade that costs more.

I think that there are a whole lot of assumptions being made here about real estate namely 1. You're paying market price for the home in a tier 1 city; I didn't cover RE purchase specifics as my list is based on the basics (i.e stacking up $$ for the down payment) 2. You assume the number of years (10) is required to see any gains -- let me break it down for you:

1. If you buy your primary residence right (with an investor mindset) your mortgage + holding costs should equal or be less than the rental value of your property. Having established that:

a. You can end up living there for 10, 20, 30 years and pay down the mortgage. Own the property free and clear with minimal taxes/fees by time you're ready to retire.
b. If you end up moving for work or based on personal preferences, you can rent out the residence and still cover your costs.
c. in a Bubblicious environment, you can CHOOSE to sell and recognize your capital gains up $250K tax free.

As for a person renting a 1 bedroom flat and not moving to a 1 bedroom condo, is another assumption that you are making - whether you choose to upgrade to 3 bd house or not is based on your preferences, circumstances, and financial situation -- I don't delve into those specifics because they vary greatly, on an individual basis.

Now let's break down the advantages of owning your primary residence:

- Owning a property allows you to keep your mortgage (largest fixed cost) consistent. While your other expenses may rise, your Principal + Interest payments will stay the same. Also, the non mortgage expenses can be mitigated somewhat by the tax deductions on interest payments. You get none of this stability from renting.

- You mentioned that you "lose" money that could be invested somewhere else - can you identify the investment vehicles that an AVERAGE person can invest and recognize consistent gains AND be able remove emotional irrationality from that investment (not selling when things are going bad). Most of American middle class wealth is tied to housing not 401K or other investments. The reasoning is simple: The primary residence not only serves as shelter but also is a forced savings plan for people. Meaning you buy a property now and in 30 years you have paid off the debt, and barring a complete economic collapse, that property is going to be worth something just based on the virtue of paydown of the mortgage note, let's forget the market appreciation, which I agree (over 3 decades) may not be the best.

Agree put the money in 401k if you GET am match. But if you don't take the money and put it in an IRA (vanguard is best).No reason the have money in a company account , with the often high fees that go along with it. Also most 401k actually have poor investment choices.

I have both an IRA and a 401K. I agree that a match makes a 401K more compelling. Also, West Coast has covered some key advantages related to a 401K.

Gym...most will disagree with me. Unless you using it to game chicks...MOST are wastes of money for most people. If your a body builder and you need every variation of free weights,etc available go ahead join. But most people stop going to the gym after a while or they take breaks.Many just waste a bit of time there.
Much more cheaper to buy a fold up bench(that has barbell support), a pull up bar, dip bar, and free weights.i have a portable dip bar that actually hooks onto my pull up bar. All the equipment I have works the major muscle groups and most compound exercises.
Bench=175
pull up bar= 20
dip bar=40
weights=200 (you can variate on this)
total=500 and will last indefinitely. But most important NO matter what the weather I work out. I also finish my workout in the time it would take me to actually walk 5 blocks to the gym and change in the locker room. Not counting the wait to use the bench press where most guys too busy to spot others.Oh yeah I can sip my protein shakes at my leisure.

Your suggestions make sense if you have a consistent workout and plan on keeping it that way. My workouts shift, I like to try new machines etc. -- however these are preferences. My advice is simple: With a basic gym membership you get access to the widest variety of equipment at a relatively minimal cost.

[BostonBMW]

(08-20-2013 04:35 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

I agree with most of what Jim wrote.

I don't agree on the 401K stuff because you can avoid taxes. How? You simply stack into 401k, when you hit your "exit number - fuck you money - walk away number" whatever you want to call it. You can now play the 5 year roll over layaway game.

You sit and don't work (0 taxable income) then roll over the 401K in portions up to the lower brackets say 15% at 35K.

Do this over and over and now all that money is liquid in 5 years due to rollover rules. Already talked about this trick on another thread.

But rest of advice is solid, buying a home in an expensive city like NYC/SF/LA usually has bad rent to buy calculations. If you're young it's even more foolish as you lose your mobility.

Also disagree a bit on the gym, becaus you can't set up a gym in a studio apartment, ha. Just sign up for the closest one near you, luckily mine is across the street.

Great points.

As far is RE is concerned, yes NYC/SF/LA has bad rent to buy calculations, but that's a generic, market rate calculation. If you do your research and buy below market price you are in much more favorable circumstances.

I haven't brought my primary residence yet (investment deals are more compelling at the moment), however when I do -- I'll throw up a datasheet that breaks down how I made (a below market deal) happen.

Also, wanted to add: Going to a gym motivates me, when I see a fine girl sweating it out on the weights or her tight ass bouncing on the treadmill. I don't even game at the gym, aside from messing around with the front desk girl with D cups and a pierced tongue.

[paninaro]

I don't think having a roommate is so bad, especially if you each have your own rooms and bathrooms. I lived in an apartment once that was 2 levels, so we basically each had a floor to ourselves. In a larger city, people will be understanding of you having a roommate when rents are so high.

[king]

(08-21-2013 12:13 AM)paninaro Wrote:  

I don't think having a roommate is so bad, especially if you each have your own rooms and bathrooms. I lived in an apartment once that was 2 levels, so we basically each had a floor to ourselves. In a larger city, people will be understanding of you having a roommate when rents are so high.

Would not that be a flatmate?

[BostonBMW]

(08-21-2013 12:28 AM)king Wrote:  

(08-21-2013 12:13 AM)paninaro Wrote:  

I don't think having a roommate is so bad, especially if you each have your own rooms and bathrooms. I lived in an apartment once that was 2 levels, so we basically each had a floor to ourselves. In a larger city, people will be understanding of you having a roommate when rents are so high.

Would not that be a flatmate?

Actually you're correct. In the U.S. we inaccurately call flatmates, roommates. I'm not sure about the origin of this inaccuracy, however I suspect that college dormitory living may have something to do with it.