[Santoro]

I haven't seen many posts on gaming from a live musician's point of view. It's widely considered that being on stage and struttin it up does all the work for you. It's aboslutely true, but with some finesse you can really blow up a spot.This is by no means complete, and will be seen by veterans as absolute common sense. It can also be titled 'how to get your band invited back for another show'.

I'd like to hear from other musicians (maybe dj's too, there might be some overlap) and their personal formulas for pickup and really getting the most out of gigs. Here's how I do things at the moment...for those curious, I'm based out of Miami and most of my gigs are at the Blue Martini locations in south florida.

There are two things I consider before walking into a gig

1) Have I played here before?
2) How soon will I play here again?

This doesn't change my game. It changes the interactions with the door people, the bartenders, and the waitresses. If I've played before, first thing I do is mentally remember who I dealt with and their names. And something basic about them to strike up a conversation. Look like someone when you walk in. Handshakes, friendly shots, kiss greetings etc. Get to know the manager, thank him/her for the opportunity to gig. Get there early and make a positive reputation for yourself.

Arriving close to gig time is terrible form. You look rushed loading your gear in. You can't stop to chat. It's busier, and you have to lug your shit around the happy hour crowd. Get there early.

The first time I play a venue, I usually just hang out with the bartenders/waitresses and don't even mingle with the crowd until the very end of the night. Get there early and have a drink at the bar when it's still slow. Be a cool cat, have a conversation and don't mention you're playing with the band. After you tip well and they see you onstage later, the 'aha' moment is a fast-track to a reputation as a modest dude who has his shit together...someone who has done this before. It pays tenfold in the longrun to be a part of the biz family. Remember that you are gigging *their* bar. Play on this is a non-asskissing way and you're going to do well.

First gig at a new venue...don't bring a girl/crew. You will not have ample time to build relationships with the bar staff. Invest, make recurring gigs your little haven.

Once the seeds are planted, proceed with game as usual. As a performer, making a quick lap around the venue after the show is all it takes to meet people, and where the earlier time pays its dividends. A waitress will introduce you to her friends. The manager has a table at the back, and invites you for a drink. Etc. At that point it's mostly the logistics and don't fuck up game that everyone associates with musicians. But to get to that point every night, the aforementioned steps are absolutely crucial and have proven to work consistently for me.

[Purple Urkle]

Nice approach. I don't play venues but I play on the street in LA, North Carolina, Bologna (Italy) and Berlin. I've also played London and Toronto. Almost weekly a chick or three will drop their number in my guitar case. I also post funny little signs that say things like "Auditioning Singers (and Girlfriends): Today Only." I have a whole series of stand-up comedy type routines for hitting on girls over the mic too. I really like this game. All kinds of crazy fun stuff happens when you're just standing on a street corner alone singing your guts out. Places to stay, new gigs, chicks, famous/rich people stopping and talking to you and tax free cash (euros!).

[Fender_Bender]

Great post man. I have long dreamed of playing either gigs in bars or street performing, but have always struggled with garnering the confidence and charisma to make it work. I'm a pretty big noob to game but have been playing guitar and piano for a years, and although deep down I know I have the skills to do it my inner game holds me back like a motherfucker. Working on overall game will help with this, I know, but do you have any tips for someone trying to break into getting gigs or playing on the street for cash? I feel like playing live and practicing game will go hand in hand and possibly snowball into a positive feedback loop of pussy.

[CJ_W]

(07-05-2013 04:37 PM)chambs88 Wrote:  

I haven't seen many posts on gaming from a live musician's point of view. It's widely considered that being on stage and struttin it up does all the work for you. It's aboslutely true, but with some finesse you can really blow up a spot.This is by no means complete, and will be seen by veterans as absolute common sense. It can also be titled 'how to get your band invited back for another show'.

I'd like to hear from other musicians (maybe dj's too, there might be some overlap) and their personal formulas for pickup and really getting the most out of gigs. Here's how I do things at the moment...for those curious, I'm based out of Miami and most of my gigs are at the Blue Martini locations in south florida.

There are two things I consider before walking into a gig

1) Have I played here before?
2) How soon will I play here again?

This doesn't change my game. It changes the interactions with the door people, the bartenders, and the waitresses. If I've played before, first thing I do is mentally remember who I dealt with and their names. And something basic about them to strike up a conversation. Look like someone when you walk in. Handshakes, friendly shots, kiss greetings etc. Get to know the manager, thank him/her for the opportunity to gig. Get there early and make a positive reputation for yourself.

Arriving close to gig time is terrible form. You look rushed loading your gear in. You can't stop to chat. It's busier, and you have to lug your shit around the happy hour crowd. Get there early.

The first time I play a venue, I usually just hang out with the bartenders/waitresses and don't even mingle with the crowd until the very end of the night. Get there early and have a drink at the bar when it's still slow. Be a cool cat, have a conversation and don't mention you're playing with the band. After you tip well and they see you onstage later, the 'aha' moment is a fast-track to a reputation as a modest dude who has his shit together...someone who has done this before. It pays tenfold in the longrun to be a part of the biz family. Remember that you are gigging *their* bar. Play on this is a non-asskissing way and you're going to do well.

First gig at a new venue...don't bring a girl/crew. You will not have ample time to build relationships with the bar staff. Invest, make recurring gigs your little haven.

Once the seeds are planted, proceed with game as usual. As a performer, making a quick lap around the venue after the show is all it takes to meet people, and where the earlier time pays its dividends. A waitress will introduce you to her friends. The manager has a table at the back, and invites you for a drink. Etc. At that point it's mostly the logistics and don't fuck up game that everyone associates with musicians. But to get to that point every night, the aforementioned steps are absolutely crucial and have proven to work consistently for me.

That's pretty much it, that's all basic stuff that every performer who hasn't "made it" yet should do. It helps build your fanbase, and network as well. One thing I may add though, is that if you are getting paid at the end of the event, you need to stay until the end of the event. now if you are getting paid by direct deposit/a manager is taking care of that then fine you can do that later but if not, you need to stay. A lot of things go down when it comes to pay time, the person who booked you will probably talk about your performance, either good or bad, or some of your customers that you brought, if they caused any problems that night. usually that will happen after you have gotten all of your gear taken care of and packed/ready to go.

I have had to run all over town trying to pay people because they couldn't stay for the five minutes after the end of the show for settlement (where the venue pays the event organizer) to finish. You can bet that I didn't book them again a second time.

Of course if you're big already then all that is taken care of. But if you're just starting out, make things as easy on the people booking you as possible. Talent Buyers, have the highest Risk of everyone involved(pretty much, one mistake can ruin them for good). If you as a performer take that for granted. . .you're not going anywhere anytime soon.

But yeah, other than that. Network network network. Don't worry too much about chasing girls. If you try to hard for that too soon, you'll shoot yourself in the foot(people all the time get in trouble for prioritizing pussy over taking care of business). I've seen so many DJ's pretty much get themselves blacklisted for breaking ALL of these tips either to chase a girl or do drugs, or just drinking waaay too much etc etc.

with being a musician, you just gotta let the pussy flow to you, its like you're on a raging river. you don't need to paddle faster. just guide the raft to coast around the rocks in the path.

P.S. There are some talent buyers who just don't realize how much of a Risk they take. SO if you suspect that he doesn't have his stuff together, it's best to avoid them. As they'll be out of business pretty soon.

P.P.S. On getting a big head. Now musician arrogance is pretty normal. . .but Id suggest that people cool it with that until they can make enough money from one gig, to keep them set for life. If you aren't at that level, keep your ego at bay as you can(and will) be easily replaced

[CJ_W]

(07-05-2013 11:42 PM)Fender_Bender Wrote:  

Great post man. I have long dreamed of playing either gigs in bars or street performing, but have always struggled with garnering the confidence and charisma to make it work. I'm a pretty big noob to game but have been playing guitar and piano for a years, and although deep down I know I have the skills to do it my inner game holds me back like a motherfucker.

Then you're not ready yet.

Keep practicing your instruments/singing/songwriting skills until your confidence in that overshadows all the other stuff.

Your fear will come through in your playing. That will turn people off.

Anyway once you get that handled, go to craigslist and check out the musician section. and try out for bands. . .and just relax and play.

Its not just being on stage that gives you charisma, its the fun you have while doing the music that brings the charisma. If you are not skilled technically to make it effortless, then you can't bring out that charisma.

[soup]

Just be careful not to fuck all your fans because then you might lose your audience to drama

[CJ_W]

You can fuck as many fans as you want. But you have to be super dominant, and let them know when they bring it up that you are not going to be monogamous.

but that falls under standard game.

if you capitulate like a bitch then no matter what you're going to have problems.


Besides, I laugh when some women tell me that performer x has a "bad reputation" for womanizing or whatnot. . .

then those same women that talk crap about that performer, still come to see their show (and most likely fuck him afterwards)

The only time you really have to worry about women is if you are married. . .but 1) you shouldn't be getting married in the first place if you're a musician

and 2) that and the "bad rumors" of you banging women is actually going to make you get bigger anyway.

The ONLY time you need to not focus on women, is when you have business to take care of first.

Take care of your business (including making great shows/music/dealing with the people who pay you/show up leave on time/don't trash hotel rooms etc)---->then you can let the women do whatever.

[Purple Urkle]

(07-05-2013 11:42 PM)Fender_Bender Wrote:  

Great post man. I have long dreamed of playing either gigs in bars or street performing, but have always struggled with garnering the confidence and charisma to make it work. I'm a pretty big noob to game but have been playing guitar and piano for a years, and although deep down I know I have the skills to do it my inner game holds me back like a motherfucker. Working on overall game will help with this, I know, but do you have any tips for someone trying to break into getting gigs or playing on the street for cash? I feel like playing live and practicing game will go hand in hand and possibly snowball into a positive feedback loop of pussy.

By playing street music you are practicing game because you become a professional at looking rejection straight in the eyes. However, like anything else it basically requires 5000 hours of direct experience to become proficient. I can knock down 20 grand a year by playing part-time. I'm convinced if it was all I did I could up that to 60k. It is horrifying for the first 100 or so hours. All I can say is "dare to do bad work." You are going to suck hard 50% percent of the time. When you lay yourself out there naked and bare you are going to be ridiculed and flogged. I know someone who LOVES Bob Dylan and has seen him five times in concert, three of those times he was so bad she swore she'd never go see him again. You think Bob cares? Hell no, he'll show up drunk, suck ass, and take the money and run every time. Balls. Just takes ball (and a certain degree of narcissism). The journey of a million miles begins with a single step... just start walking.

[Vaun]

I have been toying around with recording and want to get back into it, its been way too long. But I think this guy has figured it out;

https://www.facebook.com/video/embed?vid...%220%22%3E

[Ocelot]

(07-05-2013 11:42 PM)Fender_Bender Wrote:  

Great post man. I have long dreamed of playing either gigs in bars or street performing, but have always struggled with garnering the confidence and charisma to make it work. I'm a pretty big noob to game but have been playing guitar and piano for a years, and although deep down I know I have the skills to do it my inner game holds me back like a motherfucker. Working on overall game will help with this, I know, but do you have any tips for someone trying to break into getting gigs or playing on the street for cash? I feel like playing live and practicing game will go hand in hand and possibly snowball into a positive feedback loop of pussy.

DO NOT BE A BEDROOM MUSICIAN.

Even if you don't plan on making a career out of music - hell, even if you're confident you're a mediocre musician, play with other people and to audiences ASAP. Your musicianship will improve no end, and above all, so will your confidence. When people go to see a gig, they tend to be invested in enjoying the music. They don't want to think the person/act on stage is shit, and you have to have remarkably bad musicianship and people skills to elicit a negative reaction from them. Well... unless you're at complete wrong venue, like doing a gangsta rap set at a folk & country club!

If you have no confidence in your abilities, go to local jams/open mic nights and just start playing. You're pretty much guaranteed not to be the worst musician of the night, and they're a great way to build confidence (and you'll learn other valuable skills, like compensating for occasionally awful backing musicians ). It's also very difficult to form a band and make contacts if you're not mixing with other musicians. Some of the greatest musicians on the planet are virtually unknown because they don't play around people enough, when there's guys out there strumming three chord tricks to filled stadiums.

Don't think that wowing an audience with your music necessarily leads to pussy, though. It definitely makes girls easy as hell to approach when you mingle after a gig, but they're still not going to game themselves. I've seen so many guys play absolutely blinding sets, but then their social skills don't match their stage presence, and they manage to fuck up with clearly interested girls. I went to a contemporary music college, and in my time there only a handful of guys on my course ever seemed to get laid. They were the same guys who were making all the contacts, and forming bands, funnily enough...

Oh, and remember, even if it's not your career, being a performing musician shows you have a genuine passion in something and demonstrates a level of value that being a bedroom musician does not. There's just no reason not to get into it if you're already dedicating time to practise/play at home!

/rant

P.S. When I'd been playing guitar for just over a year, I was out on the streets busking and pulling in £200 a day for < 3 hours 'work' (I had zero game back then, and scored no lays from the jams/gigs I played though ). You absolutely can make a living from music if you want it bad enough.

[Santoro]

(07-05-2013 09:00 PM)Purple Urkle Wrote:  

I also post funny little signs that say things like "Auditioning Singers (and Girlfriends): Today Only." I have a whole series of stand-up comedy type routines for hitting on girls over the mic too. I really like this game.

Would love to hear some of the lines/routines you have in your back pocket.

Drop us some of your wisdom

[Purple Urkle]

(07-06-2013 09:25 PM)chambs88 Wrote:  

(07-05-2013 09:00 PM)Purple Urkle Wrote:  

I also post funny little signs that say things like "Auditioning Singers (and Girlfriends): Today Only." I have a whole series of stand-up comedy type routines for hitting on girls over the mic too. I really like this game.

Would love to hear some of the lines/routines you have in your back pocket.

Drop us some of your wisdom

Well, what I have accidentally on purpose developed is a skill to improvise within a certain context. An attitude/vibe develops when I'm well rehearsed and I have my sound and technology dialed in (also, the better my PA system sounds the more money I make). I become relaxed when I'm confident in my sound and ability and I begin to initiate interactions based on what's happening moment to moment. These loosly crafted mini-sketches are rooted in game theory. One line I've used when two attractive girls are walking by completely ignoring me in the middle of a heart wrenching ballad is to stop playing in the most tender/hooky part of the chorus and say: "Excuse me... can you please tell me where you got that dress?" Girl: "Why, is it your style?" Me: "Not really... its for my sister." I give the smirk, they laugh, I say "Now you each owe me a dollar for bringing laughter into your broken hearts." More laughter, they put money in my guitar case, and it just goes on and on. So many years, so many stories. Sometimes the solo granola chick will just sit at your feet for hours and then its just like "Well, now I'm rich... wanna buy me a beer?"

[Ziltoid]

Are you guys in semi-pro/touring bands, or are you more the local weekend gig sort?
Not trying to be condescending with that question or anything, just curious.

I feel like a lot of this is solid advice at certain levels, but not really applicable to a situation where you have a shared band vehicle, a trailer FULL of heavy ass gear to load in, and a minimum two hour setup/teardown time.

All in all I love my job, but needless to say, those logistics just SUCK... Curious to hear advice.

[Santoro]

Ziltoid-Semi-pro on a local level. Weddings, bars, some nights original acts, some nights cover acts. 3-4 music gigs a week on top of my normal career day job.

We have it set up so the load in/load out time is an afterthought, and this is because we all want to hunt as efficiently as possible.

Where it gets tricky for me, is that nearly EVERY guy at the show will try to belittle you. Especially classic striped shirt wearing boring dudes with a drink or two in them. Some are subtle AMOG things, others are trying to pick a fight for whatever reason. The natural alpha types will usually be totally cool, and willing to make introductions to friends/welcome me into the group.

I would love to hear how to deal with such people in a positive, witty, yet crushing manner that leaves me open to network with their lady friends. Verbatim examples would be most appreciated

I've also tried ignoring the people trying to AMOG and just go straight to hitting on their lady friends. It's great to see how frustrated they get, and in turn their lack of cool completely takes them out of the game. However, butthurt people do not become fans of the band, and don't buy the next round for their friends. That's shooting myself in the foot...business should be booming when my music group is there, and was hired for the intention of keeping people interested in drinking and having fun.

Long story short: Looking for quick AMOG jabs that won't leave guys reeling, but will accomplish their task

Chateau posted about this, and want to hear the forum's take on it....http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/07/07/comment-of-the-week-the-subtle-art-of-the-amog/

[KGV]

Game is definitely still important as a musician. Just because you play in a band doesn't guarantee anything. Being in a band that can pack venues definitely makes it easier as it's a DHV. If you're playing in front of 10 people, most women/groupies couldn't give a shit about you. I also feel like women throw more shit tests at you when you play music since they expect you to be a player. If you don't know how to react to those you're not going to get very far.

[lskdfjldsf]

Correct, as a musician you'll face 10x the shit tests.

Easiest route: eye a nice one from stage. Wink, smile, do what it takes to give the one you're looking at the impression she's an "exception" to the crowd in front of you. Key is doing it in a subtle way without overdoing it.

Approach as soon as humanly possible after getting off stage. In my band, we usually take shifts between packing up and scouting. Most of my closes have been within 10 minutes of stepping off stage.

[snoop]

(07-05-2013 04:37 PM)chambs88 Wrote:  

First gig at a new venue...don't bring a girl/crew. You will not have ample time to build relationships with the bar staff. Invest, make recurring gigs your little haven.

I've seen this work the other way. You bring in a crowd with you, bars are likely to want you back b/c you have a "following". You just can't spend your night shooting the shit with your friends instead of working is all.

[Santoro]

(07-10-2013 08:08 AM)snoop Wrote:  

(07-05-2013 04:37 PM)chambs88 Wrote:  

First gig at a new venue...don't bring a girl/crew. You will not have ample time to build relationships with the bar staff. Invest, make recurring gigs your little haven.

I've seen this work the other way. You bring in a crowd with you, bars are likely to want you back b/c you have a "following". You just can't spend your night shooting the shit with your friends instead of working is all.

Right. Promoting and bringing in your fans/following is different than bringing a date or your wolf pack. I'm saying don't bring your inner circle of friends. Because, as you say, the night should not be about shooting the shit with your closest friends. I think we're onto the same thing

And yes, the shit tests are through the roof. I know a drummer who purposefully acts rather beta and non-cocky when not on stage and gets action like a champ. It's like by failing their tests they see him as a non-player yet interesting, high value guy. It's a weird but absolutely present dynamic. Approaching as soon as possible once offstage is clutch. Good call Blick.

[iknowexactly]

(07-10-2013 05:34 AM)Blick Mang Wrote:  

Correct, as a musician you'll face 10x the shit tests.

Easiest route: eye a nice one from stage. Wink, smile, do what it takes to give the one you're looking at the impression she's an "exception" to the crowd in front of you. Key is doing it in a subtle way without overdoing it.

Approach as soon as humanly possible after getting off stage. In my band, we usually take shifts between packing up and scouting. Most of my closes have been within 10 minutes of stepping off stage.

One of my musician friends described the same thing. As soon as you're off the stage, the big social proof starts getting diluted, you're just another guy. Need to get buy-in before her temperature goes down.

They're also going to forget what you look like without a guitar/ax!

One friend described another, saying the guy didn't even turn his amp off before he was in the crowd gaming.

[snoop]

(07-10-2013 09:59 AM)chambs88 Wrote:  

(07-10-2013 08:08 AM)snoop Wrote:  

(07-05-2013 04:37 PM)chambs88 Wrote:  

First gig at a new venue...don't bring a girl/crew. You will not have ample time to build relationships with the bar staff. Invest, make recurring gigs your little haven.

I've seen this work the other way. You bring in a crowd with you, bars are likely to want you back b/c you have a "following". You just can't spend your night shooting the shit with your friends instead of working is all.

Right. Promoting and bringing in your fans/following is different than bringing a date or your wolf pack. I'm saying don't bring your inner circle of friends. Because, as you say, the night should not be about shooting the shit with your closest friends. I think we're onto the same thing

And yes, the shit tests are through the roof. I know a drummer who purposefully acts rather beta and non-cocky when not on stage and gets action like a champ. It's like by failing their tests they see him as a non-player yet interesting, high value guy. It's a weird but absolutely present dynamic. Approaching as soon as possible once offstage is clutch. Good call Blick.

I'm absolutely talking about bringing your inner circle, just not making the night about hanging with them. Have them do things like talk your band up to other people there (tell them where else they play, follow them on facebook, etc.) or if the crowd isn't being responsive get out on the dance floor and get things started.

[Santoro]

Lately once things get going, my opener is nearly always the same.

Jump offstage, go straight to girl/group who gave the most eye contact while onstage and simply ask, 'hey, are you enjoying the music?'

Let her answer, it will almost always be a 'yes', sometimes followed by a short anecdote. Either build on her response or proceed as you would with any target. The foot is in the door.

Stand close to her, maybe even a light touch when you ask the question. Your words should be innocent enough, but your body language should be sexual.

It's deadly in its simplicity. Props to Nomad77 for enlightening me on this one when we met up for one of my shows

[Player_1337]

Any fellow NY-based musicians here? I've played venues all over Long Island, Brooklyn and NYC (The Trash Bar, Santos Party House, The Delancey, etc.)

[iknowexactly]

(07-23-2013 03:20 PM)Player_1337 Wrote:  

Any fellow NY-based musicians here? I've played venues all over Long Island, Brooklyn and NYC (The Trash Bar, Santos Party House, The Delancey, etc.)

I'm in California now, but I played Downtown Beirut in the late 80s. These opinions date from that era so IDK about now.

New York audiences are exceptionally intelligent and open to new things, the best I've played for.

We played some boring droning atmospheric stuff and they were very polite and attentive.

People in NY are explorers, they WANT to hear something new and appreciate the effort it takes to create it.

Flyover country wants to hear the hits. The more boring the area, the more faux "excitement" they want in their music.

[Player_1337]

(07-23-2013 04:32 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(07-23-2013 03:20 PM)Player_1337 Wrote:  

Any fellow NY-based musicians here? I've played venues all over Long Island, Brooklyn and NYC (The Trash Bar, Santos Party House, The Delancey, etc.)

I'm in California now, but I played Downtown Beirut in the late 80s. These opinions date from that era so IDK about now.

New York audiences are exceptionally intelligent and open to new things, the best I've played for.

We played some boring droning atmospheric stuff and they were very polite and attentive.

People in NY are explorers, they WANT to hear something new and appreciate the effort it takes to create it.

Flyover country wants to hear the hits. The more boring the area, the more faux "excitement" they want in their music.

I'd have to agree. I've always played to very cool and receptive audiences. You played droning and atmospheric material? Sound like you guys were a post-rock band. Awesome.

[iknowexactly]

(07-23-2013 07:50 PM)Player_1337 Wrote:  

I'd have to agree. I've always played to very cool and receptive audiences. You played droning and atmospheric material? Sound like you guys were a post-rock band. Awesome.

So your experiences are similar, I thought about why, maybe it's because NY city is more exciting than even the great Facebook!!

So people want to go out and do something besides shop....

I've heard all Manhattan is totally gentrified now and all bohemian activity takes place outside, Brooklyn etc. Is that what you see?