[worldwidetraveler]

(07-01-2013 10:47 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 10:39 AM)Pierre Wrote:  

Of course it means they will fuck.

If you go on a trip with Ukrainian girls it means with almost absolute certainty they will spread their legs, even if they don't want to, they will feel obliged.

Yet people here are reporting the opposite.

Vicious, Pierre is a male model with google translation on his phone. You can't beat that combination.

[The Fantasist]

I can speak from recent experience on this subject.

A month and half back I met a Russian who was on holiday in Nice. We got completely wasted on her last night and had a drunken bang. She returned to Pieter the next day and we kept in touch. Anyway I invited her out to spend a week with me in Nice and she said she'd love to but since she is at university she simply could not afford the ticket and visa costs so soon after her original trip. So I bought the ticket and contributed half the Schengen cost. It wasn't a lot of money for me but definitely too much to waste if you know what I mean. Because we had banged I presumed ( unwisely ) that everything was 'on' and so never mentioned that I expected to bang her on the trip, it seemed obvious to me.

So she arrived on Tuesday and I took her back to mine. I made a move immediately but could feel she was distant. That evening she said she needed 'time'. I asked why since we had banged already but she said that she had been very drunk and she was a conservative girl ( originally from the provinces ) so I needed to wait so that she could see if I was serious or not. WTF! I gave her space the first night thinking she was a bit nervous being in my house in a foreign country but I expected us to bang the second day. Wrong! In the evening the second day she said that she needed more time. If I didn't play it right I was going to end up holding my cock the entire trip. I immediately went cold on her and left the room to watch tv in another room. The only way to turn it around was a complete freeze out I felt. She came to sit with me but I ignored and eventually fell asleep. In the morning she was a different girl, I had made my point. We drove to Italy for the day, had a great time in Ventimiglia and when we came back we went to bed together. From then on it was all good. She went from refusing sex because she was 'conservative' to giving me a blow job as we drove along the Promenade Des Anglais with the roof down. My cold shoulder had changed her attitude. I still don't know why she had to play that game, if she was testing me or if she really was that conservative, seeing me as a provider etc. In the end it was a great trip but it could have been very different if I was a complete amateur and had backed down and accepted her need for 'more time' without complaint.

So what I learnt is that if you are investing money in the trip you are better off spelling out exactly what you expect to take place, even if you have banged before on a previous meeting. Also the more you invest financially in her the more power the girl has and the more you are walking a tightrope as you realise how if things do go belly up you lose a lot of money. I think forum member BigAlexBoss had a thread about this when he paid for a Kiev chick to go to Italy with him and he got nothing from her.

[jimukr104]

Lol portal sounds like deb. Maybe he's a tall model looking guy also so the girls fuch him like bunnies?or maybe he is related to the Prosal on the Isg forum(mongers) and learned a thing or 2 from the fsu poster named "prosal"?
Lol I am just busting your chops. But if you are A master ,be unlike deb and teach the hoPeless folks on here how to score. I am with worldwide on this. Girls take advantage very easily. If they push for travel then don't risk it. If you however as a romantic and adventuress person sweep a girl on a trip,she might respond in passion.
Let's not forgetvif a girl likes you for real she will want a relationship. They make guys wait when they are serious,even for kisses. My wife told me that she thought procreation when she first saw me. But she had the famous 30 day rule. Fsu chicks often do that if they are putting guy on serious/ marriage track. Therefor I see no advantage taking girls on vacations who you are not intimate with.
Also beware that worldwide dealt with odessans. They are the most sophisticated females in fsu at using and gaming guys. They have been doing it for 2 centuries. They regularly scam fsu oligarchs lol. Think the cantina scene in star wars. Most ruthless. So I am sure worldwide has heard the worst stories.
Another thing. Double date vacation can be worst because the gals can game together.

Questions Slubu should ask himself:
1.Would you take an American female you went out a few times with and have not be intimate on a fully paid weekend vacation that's a 12 hour train ride away?(lol i think we know the answer). Especially when your days in country are running out.

2. If you do fuck her , do you want to be stuck with her for 2 nights?

3. IS the juice worth the squeeze? In other words, a better looking hooker probably costs less both in time, effort, and cash. If you spend "gaming" a girl more than the cost of paid sex , basically you are the one being "gamed".After all, its just vagina and not a relationship. The difference is you pay a hooker to leave, but these chicks will be stuck with you for a few days, regardless if you score or not.

[Greek kamaki]

When you pay for girls" ticket and accommodation she is completely at your disposal. The reason is you can always cancel the return ticket and refuse to pay for accommodation so she will end up in street in unknown land with no money. Girls know about this so when they agree to spending holidays together they agree to banging as well. It is as unwritten obligation.

[thegmanifesto]

(07-01-2013 11:35 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

When you pay for girls" ticket and accommodation she is completely at your disposal. The reason is you can always cancel the return ticket and refuse to pay for accommodation so she will end up in street in unknown land with no money. Girls know about this so when they agree to spending holidays together they agree to banging as well. It is as unwritten obligation.

Yet people here are reporting the opposite.

[worldwidetraveler]

There you go Slubu. I hope that cleared it up for you. ha!

[Greek kamaki]

(07-01-2013 08:09 AM)slubu Wrote:  

These girls are driving me absolutely nuts. I believe it was Roosh who mentioned at some point that just when you think you have figured things out you are thrown a curveball and have to start over.

We've been experimenting with double dates here. My buddy and I and two girls that are friends. It seems to be most effective if one girl is more wild than the other, as they like to keep up with each other. Though I did however have one girl tell me that her and her friend are not the same, in response to why she doesn't kiss as fast as her friend.

Also, last time I was here in October I never heard these two statements: 1) I don't kiss guys I just met, and 2) I don't go to an apartment of guys I just met. Yet we are hearing that from many different girls this time. We've still been kissing and bringing girls back here and there so it's not exclusive, just we never heard that phrase used ever much less repeatedly.

I still keep chugging through though, because of the quality. Also once I think you do break through the dating phase they become normal. At least that's the case with the one I've been dating for a while.

Question - Has anyone taken a trip with a girl they met in Ukraine? One of our sets of double girls wants to go with us to Lviv for two nights. Does that mean they are down to bang?

To Lvov you will not fuck her because it is a cheap place.You offer no added value.You will fuck her if you take her to Odessa or Crimea which are relatively expensive.

[Greek kamaki]

In my experience all the girls I invited to Greece for common vacations were fucked whether they were polish,Czech,Russian or Ukrainian. When she accepts to come she agrees to get fucked.

[samsamsam]

(07-01-2013 11:35 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

When you pay for girls" ticket and accommodation she is completely at your disposal. The reason is you can always cancel the return ticket and refuse to pay for accommodation so she will end up in street in unknown land with no money. Girls know about this so when they agree to spending holidays together they agree to banging as well. It is as unwritten obligation.

Just curious, and maybe this is the part I need to learn. No judgement here, just wondering how many of you would actually do that to a woman? In the US I think once the ticket is in another person's name, you can't control the ticket any more.

Like I have said in other posts, the girls I date tend to be stable and without drama. I only had crazy chicks during a period of time when I was a bit out of control. And, in this thread, we are talking about women from a part of the world I have never dealt with. I have been to Europe a bunch but not EE.

This is very interesting from a sociology point of view. I try to be a reasonable and hate to say it, compassionate person generally, but I do have a temper and can only let it out when I feel I have done all that I can so that I can be righteous and without remorse for the damage I do when pissed off. I am just not sure I could cancel someone's ticket.

Anyone done this? Cancel someone's ticket and leave someone in an foreign land? Like I said, no judgement, RVF has opened my mind a great deal over the last few months. Much appreciated.

[jimukr104]

(07-01-2013 11:56 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 11:35 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

When you pay for girls" ticket and accommodation she is completely at your disposal. The reason is you can always cancel the return ticket and refuse to pay for accommodation so she will end up in street in unknown land with no money. Girls know about this so when they agree to spending holidays together they agree to banging as well. It is as unwritten obligation.

Just curious, and maybe this is the part I need to learn. No judgement here, just wondering how many of you would actually do that to a woman? In the US I think once the ticket is in another person's name, you can't control the ticket any more.

Like I have said in other posts, the girls I date tend to be stable and without drama. I only had crazy chicks during a period of time when I was a bit out of control. And, in this thread, we are talking about women from a part of the world I have never dealt with. I have been to Europe a bunch but not EE.

This is very interesting from a sociology point of view. I try to be a reasonable and hate to say it, compassionate person generally, but I do have a temper and can only let it out when I feel I have done all that I can so that I can be righteous and without remorse for the damage I do when pissed off. I am just not sure I could cancel someone's ticket.

Anyone done this? Cancel someone's ticket and leave someone in an foreign land? Like I said, no judgement, RVF has opened my mind a great deal over the last few months. Much appreciated.

A local FSU guy would do it in a heart beat. That being said, taking women on trips who are not your girl friend is referred to as sponsorship. The expectation is there. breaking social contracts has penalties lol.

Note to Greek.I am curious. I know time is valuable to you so you have to use your time smartly .But I assume FSU whores in Greece or Germany would cost you cheaper than the damage done traveling to FSU.
In 2003 girls cost as low as 20 bucks so it made sense. Means wining and dining and gifts were cheaper. But now it seems like your short trips are not as economic as you think.
I was in law enforcement and I know the FSU whores go from 100-200 bucks in NYC. i am sure even cheaper for the off the boat ones. It wouldn't make sense for America s to actually be sex tourists in Ukraine. Vegas, LA is also full of them.
now if you were actually "gaming " them that would be different.

[Prosal]

(07-01-2013 11:29 AM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Let's not forgetvif a girl likes you for real she will want a relationship.

Not necessarily. Casual sex is as common as ever in FSU, and most girls know exactly what they are getting into when dating and/or fucking foreigners: not that it lasts forever, but to enjoy the ride.

(07-01-2013 11:29 AM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

But she had the famous 30 day rule. Fsu chicks often do that if they are putting guy on serious/ marriage track.  

If you don't get at least hand-holding and a good night kiss (I mean frenchkiss) on date 2, it means that you are losing your time or, as you say, that she has long-term plans for you. In both cases I write the girl off. Being an FSU junkie I know that it's virtually impossible to stay faithful to one woman there. There is just too much temptation.

(07-01-2013 11:29 AM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

prosal.

Yeah, I'm this one. And ? )

[worldwidetraveler]

(07-01-2013 12:06 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

A local FSU guy would do it in a heart beat. That being said, taking women on trips who are not your girl friend is referred to as sponsorship. The expectation is there. breaking social contracts has penalties lol.

A local guy, definitely. I don't think a local would even think about a trip unless he was already tapping it. One guy I knew would rather go on trips with his friends and would leave his girlfriend behind. haha

A lot of these women know that western men are not the same as the locals. They can get away with more and westerners will allow it.

[Greek kamaki]

(07-01-2013 11:56 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 11:35 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

When you pay for girls" ticket and accommodation she is completely at your disposal. The reason is you can always cancel the return ticket and refuse to pay for accommodation so she will end up in street in unknown land with no money. Girls know about this so when they agree to spending holidays together they agree to banging as well. It is as unwritten obligation.

Just curious, and maybe this is the part I need to learn. No judgement here, just wondering how many of you would actually do that to a woman? In the US I think once the ticket is in another person's name, you can't control the ticket any more.

Like I have said in other posts, the girls I date tend to be stable and without drama. I only had crazy chicks during a period of time when I was a bit out of control. And, in this thread, we are talking about women from a part of the world I have never dealt with. I have been to Europe a bunch but not EE.

This is very interesting from a sociology point of view. I try to be a reasonable and hate to say it, compassionate person generally, but I do have a temper and can only let it out when I feel I have done all that I can so that I can be righteous and without remorse for the damage I do when pissed off. I am just not sure I could cancel someone's ticket.

Anyone done this? Cancel someone's ticket and leave someone in an foreign land? Like I said, no judgement, RVF has opened my mind a great deal over the last few months. Much appreciated.

It is harsh punishment but can be done.More often you send the girl next day to her country back if she does not open her legs for you.It costs a bit to change ticket dates but can be done.Or you get her to the cheapest fast foods, the worst areas and always by bus so se does not have any pleasure anymore.Of course slavic guys can be more drastic I suppose they may not even buy food for her.
Other punishment is to leave her alone in apartment refusing to even talk to her or take her outside.Generally if a girl surpasses some limits she has to suffer some form of punishment.We are Balkans not some sort of charity iinstitutionafter all.

[The Fantasist]

(07-01-2013 11:35 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

When you pay for girls" ticket and accommodation she is completely at your disposal. The reason is you can always cancel the return ticket and refuse to pay for accommodation so she will end up in street in unknown land with no money. Girls know about this so when they agree to spending holidays together they agree to banging as well. It is as unwritten obligation.

At the risk of sounding beta I think that is morally questionable unless you spell out before that you expect sex and she agrees.

Let's say you invite a poor Ukrainian girl to Greece for a trip. She wants to see how you get on, see if you are a possible long term partner material, maybe sleep with you if she likes you or not if she doesn't. She is conservative. You have not discussed it. After two days she has not banged you. You kick her out onto the street with no money and no ticket in a country where she can't communicate and maybe a day's bus ride from her consulate. That's harsh way to punish someone for your lack of game and not cementing the rules before hand. Also if you kick her out then you've cost yourself a lot of money when with a little more time you might have gamed her into bed.

If however you lay the rules out and she agrees to bang on the trip and then she refuses, well then all bets are off and she can be kicked out with as clear conciounse. She fleeced you so kick her to the curb.

[thegmanifesto]

Here is my take:

If you a girl agrees to take a trip with you and you don't swoop her, you just displayed Bad Game.

You have no one to blame but yourself.

[worldwidetraveler]

(07-01-2013 12:26 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Here is my take:

If you a girl agrees to take a trip with you and you don't swoop her, you just displayed Bad Game.

You have no one to blame but yourself.

You should be blaming yourself anytime someone gets one over on you.

[Soma]

(07-01-2013 05:27 AM)Prosal Wrote:  

+1. I find that by and large, slavic women (and especially russian) are maybe not faithful, but very loyal. And passionate and emotional. Very emotional, much more so than americans or europeans, who look at life in a logical fashion.

I find this confusing. The consensus here seemed to be that Western (Anglo) women now primarily make decisions based on their current emotional state whereas it is slavic women who are more prone to cold hard logic. Unless I'm misunderstanding, you're saying its the opposite, correct?

[Greek kamaki]

You don't know how slavic girls play you.The trick is to do to them what they think as impossible to surprise them.In this way all the building they have built based on their impressions about you collapses and they left in vacuum.
Any girl knows that she has to give sex in return for free vaccations and by agreeing to come she accepts the deal.Girls who refuse to give sex are scammers.Honestly if any guy tries to play large and when the Russian girl comes he takes her to Mc Donalds do you think he will get any bangs? Obligations and rules are valid for both sides.

[samsamsam]

This is all pretty fascinating to me, and I know I shouldn't look at it like a lab experiment. Just getting exposure to different ways is pretty interesting but it means nothing unless I can actually turn this insight into action. And lately, I keep letting work get in the way.

But a question, other than those Russian prison shows on cable, anything else that I could watch to witness the cruelty/extreme toughness that these men demonstrate? Cruelty is a subjective word choice, I know, but it seems like they have no qualms pulling shit that I would hesitate to do. Granted, it seems like these guys (assumption here) have less to lose and nothing binds them to some, for a lack of a better word, order/system. Sort of do whatever and deal with the consequences, but the consequences might not be worse than what they already have or are at.

Not trying to judge, just fascinating and good lessons can be learned - to a point. Thanks.

[jimukr104]

(07-01-2013 12:09 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 12:06 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

A local FSU guy would do it in a heart beat. That being said, taking women on trips who are not your girl friend is referred to as sponsorship. The expectation is there. breaking social contracts has penalties lol.

A local guy, definitely. I don't think a local would even think about a trip unless he was already tapping it.

A lot of these women know that western men are not the same as the locals. They can get away with more and westerners will allow it.

YES. That's because the early "marriage agency" guys were scammed by the agencies and girls that it was NORMAL to spend. Funny thing is back in 2001-2002 Kiev was very cheap so the foreign guys thought they were getting a GOOD deal when the girls led them to ARIZONA'A (expensive bbq place back then). The other expats all had paid expense accounts. Basically girls got use to scamming and playing guys .They then even expected it from locals. This caused the locals to hate and be envious . Vicious cycle.
It is like what Roosh said..... women are water in containers.
Difference is ...the girls feel ignored by their own guys..thus they want them more. Locals guys are the true prize so the girls don't "play" them as much. But the "prince charming " syndrome is part of culture there ..so
the women always try to extract/mine . After all... Fsu went from Medieval to industrial revolution without stopping in the Renaissance lol. Difference is local guys know the mentality and will bitch slap the chicks,literally.
Rich or wannabe rich locals are different. They want to make the masses feel weak and worthless so they show off their money. part of showing off is spending on women.
Being ZHADNI(cheap) is not good. The balance is to make it known to the girl that time is money and effort and you only spend money on people who make you happy .They can understand this. Remember in BANG UKRAINE? They actually been brainwashed by old foreigners that Foreign guys want to spend money for their company and get nothing in return lol.

You never tell FSU local that something is expensive. You state it is bad value or of little worth to you. For example. Trip to lviv is little value unless its very romantic you state.
FSU clubs try to get people to spend money on table service .It is NUTS. In NYC table service is VIP. In FSU they put so many tables there is no dance floor and it is not special. I would tell chicks I am there to dance NOT to sit like some drunk and drink.I would also tell them its bad value to pay to sit down when I AM THERE to exercise and dance .It worked.
That being said..back then more chicks admired Americans and now they don't like foreigners as much so they often think their way is better.

As for being more emotional. Well funny..because most people will NOT recognize that. In fact even American women think FSU women are cold and heartless.They come across like female Spock(Vulcans).The emotions are only seen when and with people that they are close with. Same as the famous passion.This is one of the reasons I personally never think of FSU as a typical "game' location. For one,scoring is not easy. But it can even be worst after you score. Who the hell wants a robot?
To see the famous passion, you actually have to bed them,win them over and get in a relationship with feelings. Roosh noted that in his book as well. They read to many romantic dime novels and watch to many Spanish soap operas.Of course that's All subjective.

[Greek kamaki]

I think Prosal makes the mistake to take in face value when the girls tell him how much they love his sophistication and French culture. In reality what they like are the free vaccations, free apartment and free food and drinks.It is the same as the Balkan guy who gets flattered for having a big cock while all the slavic girls want from him is the money and free vaccations he provides.Of course these slavic women lies can create a good atmosphere and this is what they serve after all our Wohlgefuhl.Man prefers lies to reality and this is part of slavic magic.

[Prosal]

(07-01-2013 12:34 PM)Soma Wrote:  

I find this confusing. The consensus here seemed to be that Western (Anglo) women now primarily make decisions based on their current emotional state whereas it is slavic women who are more prone to cold hard logic. Unless I'm misunderstanding, you're saying its the opposite, correct?

Well, I think that there is a deep feeling, specifically Russian, of contempt for everything conventional, for everything that most Western people consider as "good" (in a moral sense),"reasonable" "moral" or "politically correct". Russian women tend to follow their almost childishly naive instinct and the passion of the moment without thinking twice. For them, emotions and passion predominate over logic or reason. It's part of the "Russian Soul". Gogol, Dostoievski, Lermontov, Bunin, Tolstoi, Pushkin, ect ect have talked about it and have illustrated it through their female characters much better than I will ever do )

[Prosal]

(07-01-2013 12:42 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

I think Prosal makes the mistake to take in face value when the girls tell him how much they love his sophistication and French culture while all want from him is the money and free vaccations he provides

Why so much bitterness ??

Most of the russian women I bang are successful young (mid to late 20's) professionals who already have access to the best they society has to offer. They have no materialistic expectations. They have good jobs (and most often mentally and physically draining jobs), they have a busy cultural and social life, they travel a lot, the bills are paid, and they only feel that the one thing they miss out in life is romance and adventures. And sex.

[jimukr104]

(07-01-2013 12:08 PM)Prosal Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 11:29 AM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Let's not forgetvif a girl likes you for real she will want a relationship.

Not necessarily. Casual sex is as common as ever in FSU, and most girls know exactly what they are getting into when dating and/or fucking foreigners: not that it lasts forever, but to enjoy the ride.

(07-01-2013 11:29 AM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

But she had the famous 30 day rule. Fsu chicks often do that if they are putting guy on serious/ marriage track.  

If you don't get at least hand-holding and a good night kiss (I mean frenchkiss) on date 2, it means that you are losing your time or, as you say, that she has long-term plans for you. In both cases I write the girl off. Being an FSU junkie I know that it's virtually impossible to stay faithful to one woman there. There is just too much temptation.

(07-01-2013 11:29 AM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

prosal.

Yeah, I'm this one. And ? )

Agreed, if she uses the "I need get to know you better" line(usually when trying to kiss) , then you know you are the LTR track(maybe being used and mined as well) and can cut your losses. Problem with using hand holding as a test, is if I REMEMBER CORRECTLY the girls will hold your hand minutes after meeting them on the street. Arm holding and hand holding is almost a cultural tradition with them that you can literally pick up a chick in the street ,invite her for coffee and grab her hand while walking.

[Pierre]

Well said Prosal

Don't listen to Kamaki, he's either lost in a world.of paid sex, or has been deliberately misleading people here for a long time for his amusement. If its that the latter, much respect.

Even Roosh says you can't get laid without spending big money, then again he's Turkish and completely useless.