[2Wycked]

First off, read Tuthmosis’ excellent breakdown of types of trolls on this forum: Also, understand I drew a bit on T’s post at the http://www.rawness.com.



Second, understand trolls are ubiquitous online where people get together. They infest comment sections in just about any online article that has comment sections. Without strong moderators, just about any post has potential to go off down the troll path. For example, I remember seeing a video of cute animal running around with a woman's kids - just a regular family video that the parents will probably cherish as fond memories of their kids. A video about some man & woman who loved their kids and wanted to share their joy over the web. It spawned some supportive comments, commenting on how cute the kids were and how great their backyard looked; some dudes started to friendly debate what sort of dog it was. Then the invasion happened – some dipshit commented on how ugly the kids were. Another troll emerges saying he would kill the dog and sell the kids into slavery. A nasty shit-storm developed that ended in the woman who posted the video tearfully posting how hurtful the comments had become.

Who are these people? Why do they exist? Tuth broke down the various kinds of trolls – but what inner fire drives their trolling? The most famous troll on this board, IRT, was before my time but it looked like that kid trolled the living shit out of body-building forums, NN forum, this forum and all sorts of game forums. That kid’s life was one massive trolling expedition. That is supremely psychologically unhealthy. Let’s breakdown why trolls troll.

First, lets’ talk about levels of trolling. Sometimes senior members troll by starting low-value threads about bullshit. I get the boredom from time to time and sometimes the threads spawn funny posts, but it is still about trolling. Intermediate levels of trolling are usually guys that worm there way into your approval and then begin to troll you. They start out slow at first but push the envelope quickly – but they never reach the next plane. High level trolls are guys that either come at you hard & smack you in the mouth with their insecurities or they hatch grand plans to troll. They often drop many innocuous comments before latching onto and preying on you. In real life, these people who only use the people to bolster their frail psyche.



The point of the previous paragraph is that severity or type of troll is determined by personal psychology. Let’s step through banned member bigbootyluvr. He seemed to be a guy who was fairly mean-spirited who felt superior to most players on the forum - he once told Roosh in a PM to fuck off as he is a "geico cave man." This guy is a classic Internet narcissist. He presents a persona of some guy who crushes hot puss on the reg. Now this is pure speculation, but I believe the beating heart of trolling is the psychological gap between who they want to be and the reality of their life. Everybody knows who they really are – whether they are truly honest about it is another matter. Look at who he attacked – Roosh and G. He picks out the top players on the board who have proven their chops time and again it isn’t a question if they are great with women. That how he sees himself in the theater of his own mind – a player on par with those two men. However, in real life, he isn’t as close to be as good as those men. While he isn’t the best example, for the life of me I couldn’t find the thread but let me talk from memory. Some guy posts something about how he cleans up. G asked for details. The guy’s story was quickly outed to be false as a long-time commenter contradicted his assertions. G inquired further, basically intoning he was full of shit. The dude went off and attacked G. What G did was trigger his defense mechanisms when faced with his false self. Remember, when people who have false identities of their life (it is a narcissistic trait) they lash out to defend their identity. They might either sink into narcissistic depression. That guy could very well have been crying while attacking G. That is the other response – vicious, degrading personal attacks. If they know personal information about you, they will crush you with it.

Let me step through two of Tuth’s categories I think are most relevant to my analysis here – the race troll and the big-baller troll. Let’s talk about a race troll. This sort of dude makes everything in life about his race. White people have a tough time getting away with this, so they usually hide behind HBD or strident critiques of black people that may seem to be fair, but really they are taking out their racial inferiorities on the easiest race to dump on in America – the black person. Racial minorities can get away with flaunting their racial insecurities, presenting them as social critiques or looking for empathy. The real reason is they want your compassion is to bolster their self-hatred.



However, let’s chop up the psychology of a race troll. Understand, that in life when presented with untoward situations, you can pick bad ways of coping or good ways. Often time, people pick bad ways. Due to racism in the society, racial minorities take to the predominant issue with America – narcissism. Race trolls like IRT are “nice guys.” However, that is a politically correct of describing self-absorbed betas. Unable to cope with their sexual inadequacies, they vacillate between blind superiority or supreme levels of self-pitying. Dr. Robert Glover has pointed out in approaches to therapy, men often swing between, “I love my wife!” to “Fuck that controlling bitch.” No middle ground. I could see IRT posting a thread, “The White Womon Secretly Love The Hot Curry Pasion Of The Chocalate Men.” Then, post a thread 20 minutes later, “Why Do Women Hate Indian Men So Much?” I wonder if there was a qualitative difference in IRT’s writing when he is chest-beating and when he is whining? Just a thought.

However, this squares with Glover’s theory. Race trolls have very insecure relationships with their race. There is a massive psychological difference between admitting brown-skinned people face discrimination due to their race and using that fact to bolster your self-esteem. Doing that reinforces the racist hierarchy because you need discrimination to fuel your identity. The Last Psychiatrist once pointed out the hypocrisy of people who use sexism, racism and homophobia as a means of shoring up their psyche. They need the perpetuation of systems of oppression to function. I believe he used the example of anti-rape activists. Women and men who make the crusade against rape often fall in the trap of needing rape to happen to bolster their outrage – their outrage is their way of dealing with the bullshit in the world. Once again, understand that being mad about rape is very different than using that anger to further your identity. Be mad about rape, but don’t use rape as a way of creating confidence in yourself that you are a person of worth. This is a complicated subject I may be butchering here, but understand it has strong strains of not just narcissism, but paranoid personality disorder.

Let’s talk about paranoid personality disorder. I will openly admit this is a disorder I struggle with. For the purposes of this writeup, let’s talk about how it relates to race trolls. Paranoid personality disorder is fundamentally about trust issues. I won’t step through why politicians, intellectuals and lawyers & psychologists often have strains of this disorder, just know they often bolster their insecurity with their intelligence. Race trolls like IRT have strong strains of this disorder. Unable to cope with racism and women’s preference for white men, he becomes distrustful of society and people. He will concoct bizarre theories about how either white women can’t admit loving Indian men because of racism or how society is actually more racist that it actually is. The worse his paranoia is, the more grandiose the claims become. You see this in feminism – the more radical a feminist is the scarier and more dominating male privilege is. There is a direct correlation between how radical a feminist is and how many women she thinks are raped in society.

As for the race troll, let me step through the mentality using my own life and therapy. In response to mother’s narcissistic abuse, I developed a form of a paranoid personality disorder. This is common with children of narcissists, as narcissists will love you in public and shun you in private. This Jekyll & Hyde situation results in you always waiting for the other shoe drop in the form of your mother privately rejecting you and treating you like absolute shit. I think part of this for IRT is that publically everybody claims racism is bad. Like the post about the least racist countries, America claimed to be far less racist than they really are. IRT probably noticed that publically white people claim to not be racist, but in private he knows they are. So he gets paranoid. Unable to fundamentally trust himself, he uses others to act out his personal mistrust. Let’s say he sacks up, learns some game and works out – he will eventually find a receptive white woman. However, this is going to blow up. Someday, she will make a innocent comment. He will get offended and wonder if she is racist. Her reassurances will confirm his paranoid instincts. Eventually, he will have a meltdown about how she is a big racist who hates Indians. No, you hate yourself and don’t trust yourself because of the color of your skin.



Let’s now step through big-ballers. A narcissistic analysis is needed here. These guys have delusions about their abilities and reality. In “Emotional Vampires” Dr. Albert Berstein uses an example of some guy who cleans up online at some World of Warcraft game. He is praised to the heavens by guys online, treating him like a sort-of king. These sorts of people crave worship, but since they can’t get it in real life, the Internet is a great way for them to act out their fantasies. In years past, they might have just lived their lives inside their own minds. They may have written books or novels about heroes they identified with. Now, online they can just use forums like this to this self-aggrandize. Lie with impunity about lays, make up stories and all sorts of bullshit. You will never see them posting any real analysis or anything. They won’t have insights because they have no abilities to do that. If they were that person in real life, there would be far less reason to need to hijack RVF to bolster self-esteem. Note some narcissists in real life are big-ballers. The key distinction between narcissists is if they live up their lofty expectations of themselves.

A former poster MiXx showed this greatly. I believe he left after Roosh decided to alter the reputation system. Understand that reputation (worship) is the most important factor in his life. He craved worship and when Roosh altered his status on the forum he bolted. The level of respect he had was of sole concern for him. He must have brought great value to the forum but know he needed this forum to bolster his narcissism. Since he left cold turkey, it wouldn’t surprise to find out the forum was the most important thing in his life. I wouldn’t be surprised if he expressed concern over the wrong people – in his mind – getting reputation and likes. Once he was firmly established he probably started exhibiting insecure behavior related to keeping people talking about him and repping him. He has an ungodly number of posts, but this what I got from what I read.

Unrelated to MiXx (I think) are big-baller assholes. These aren't just guys who are big-ballers but are guys who are supreme dicks. It is a form of self-handicapping. As I talked about here, they play up their dickishness as a way to prevent real positive relationships from developing. They are experts at playing the bad guy. They play the role of the asswipe and dickwad in order to attract negative attention. They fundamentally don't like themselves and need negative reactions to bolster their self-perception. I will not belabor this point.

I want to emphasize this is merely a breakdown. A common issue when discussing a person’s personality disorders is they take it personally. On some level it makes sense, as it is part of their identity. However, that isn’t the point. I am huge fan of therapy and people overcoming their issues. It is extremely difficult and a long, very long process.

However, let’s talk about maybe the most important issue here – their complete aversion to exposure. A typical narcissistic complaint and feeling is one of fraud. They often know their grandiose visions of themselves are false. They supremely fear being “outed” as how they really are. They are masters of self-handicapping. You see this all the time with newbies to the game. They worry about being accused of harassment, rape or getting STD’s. Those are all just defense mechanisms they use stave off the time they will have to put their skills to the test. Race trolls hyper-focus on their race as to why they can’t get girls. Sorry IRT, I know Indian men who are smooth who do well with white women. Yes, many white women discount them because of their race, but many women are open to any man with cash, muscles and strong game. Like anything else, you want to bang a certain ethnicity? Step up your game and learn about your targets. Straight forward for most people, but not race trolls.



At the end of the day, they are just looking for a reaction. Any reaction. They just need to know that you affected them. This is common amongst infants, who need to at least be yelled at. When presented with an indifferent face they react very poorly and start screaming and crying. That screaming and crying is their way of asserting control over the perceived indifference by demanding the person become reassuring and comforting. When childhood goes wrong, like mine, and that doesn’t work, serious complications develop. IRT had to be a product of Indian culture and shitty parenting. The phrase “don’t feed the troll” is spot on. If you ignore them, they will ramp up their trolling but if nobody responds they will eventually cut out as they need at least for you to attack them. They desperately want you to come at them. They may want approval at first, but they often degenerate into goading you into attacking, as they want to act out failed relationships with parents or other figures, using you as the proxy. They also want to act their trust issues, as I pointed out above.

As for big-ballers, they want your worship. They are looking for a reaction, either in the form of you licking their shaft or them trying to stomp you out so they feel better than you. That’s how the mentality works – they want to feel better than you. MiXx would probably have had a bad reaction to seeing me get rep points I have gotten the past month. In his mind, dudes can’t climb the ladder quickly. He probably deferred on some level to high repped members who came before him, but probably reacted negatively to poster who came after who gained respect and rep. He would have masked this by pretending to be interested in the good of the forum, but it would just be a way of inserting himself into the success of another poster.



Let’s talk about LibertarianBootyHunter and the need for guys to get laid. This dude recently had a thread (which he I believe he got banned for) about using nicotine to get women addicted to your cock. He was one of those dudes that you just had a sense about that sometimes he was trolling. His use of the phrase “brah !” was suspicious. When somebody uses the phrase bro or brah repeatedly, it is a mocking term. Feminists have long used the terms dude, bro and frat boy as a passive-aggressive way to talk men down, especially masculine men. LBH was a guy that would start a thread and you would wonder: Was I trolled? Tuth had a response in that thread that suggested to me Tuth suspected he may be trolling us when he made up some potential future thread names. I responded seriously to that thread, but I had suspicions about his intent after the fact.

Before I talk about the need to get laid – or improve yourself - let's talk about Male Feminist alphablack. Check out this sick thread. Four posts and he (maybe a feminist troll?) drops this gem. Even though it is sick and fucked up, I chuckled a bit reading it just because of the sheer ridiculousness about it. However, this is a common way for trolls to portray us as omega losers who need to rape or bang corpses to get laid. Under Tuth’s framework, that poster would be some combination of a feminist troll and game-denialist troll – pretending game doesn’t work while making us look like rank misogynists.

Getting laid will help trolls greatly. Unable to channel their sexual energy into the women they want they channel that energy into trolling. Either they make up false personas or hyper focus one issue or character trait they have in order to deal with his sexual frustration. Like LBH, they target forums like this where guys laid regularly and troll them to make them look like betas or omegas. I remember just a couple days I go I was frustrated with my studying and upset with something some liberal feminist did. My girl came by with some wine (love sending the text “bring the vodka/wine”) and after killing it we fucked. Once I got my dick wet and had her stroking my chest after fucking I was chilling. I had no anger, no stress. That is what these dudes lack – the ability to chill out via sex and female approval. Often times, these trolls got issues with their mothers because they didn’t get real female approval as a child. They sometimes they become male feminists kvetching for female approval via women’s rights. Sometimes they just hate on women. Sometimes they double down on being an omega.

What we sometimes see on the forum with dudes is a sense of superiority to the top players. They target guys like Roosh with great game because they want to be on his level, don’t have the psychology to do it and just attack what they perceive to be equals in the theatre of their own mind. They sometimes become race trolls, like IRT. You get some game denialists who are just dudes who don’t want to change – they want society to change so they don’t have. You get some dudes who crave for a strong patriarchy so they would get a wife. What they don’t get is game is always relevant and necessary. So you got a wife - so what? Doesn’t mean she is sucking your dick twice a week or making you delicious tacos every night.

Which is the fundamental problem with these dudes. A pimp’s work is never done. You gotta keep on your grind, work hard and be aware of the world around you if you want to affect it in ways that benefit you. You also need to develop a sense of compassion for the world around you so you don’t become some racist, misogynistic asswipe who has nothing going on for him. It is tough and you may never crush the hottest women. That isn’t the point. The point is bettering yourself to the point where you maximize your potential. These trolls can’t do that, so they subject this forum and the Internet at large to their insecurities so they don’t have to deal with them.



On one hand, you feel bad for these guys. The more aggressive trolls not really, but guys like IRT you feel for. However, the lack of progress personally turns you off. If some young player is improving his life you can't fault him. Many of us started from the bottom because of feminism, female-centric schools and shitty mothers. Success can had if you work for it. You have to have the initiative, though. Unless you are born into wealth, nobody is going to hand you a silver spoon. You have the take that damn spoon for yourself through hard work, determination and gumption. That is what this forum is about. Not a bunch of omega losers bitching about how game doesn't work, lifting doesn't help with women or your self-esteem or how it is impossible to fight feminists in society. Members have done the supposedly impossible and are now very much better off.

To conclude, trolls are fueled by negative personal psychology. They demand attention and crave it. They usually have no ability to change. Two main variants: guys who pull and guys who don't. While there is serious overlap between guys who claim to get laid and do & those who claim that but don't. Understand that paranoia often develops in some of these trolls and that fuels their trolling. Other guys just need to target superiors in order to feel they are on their level - usually they claim to be better than them. This forum isn't about that - it is about self-improvement via game, money, lifting or just general intellectual betterment. The great mods here prevent these sorts of dudes from exerting too much influence of the forum. Which is what they want - a cult that reinforces their delusions about reality.

[Roosh]

[thebassist]

I'm gonna be honest, I laughed my ass off at the nicotine on your dick thread

[Teedub]

Again, wish I could give you more reps. On a side note, I've been laughing out loud for the past minute whilst reading alphablack's post!

[JimNortonFan]

It's possible that LBH was a more sophisticated version of alphablack. Getting RVF members to endorse the nicotine thing would be a way for feminists/white knights to score points and "prove" Gamers are bad. The thing is, I enjoy a lot of these threads (not the alphablack one). For some reason when I read the nicotine thread all of the antismoking propaganda I'd ever seen or heard came flooding back to me and I laughed hysterically for 5 minutes straight.

Like it or not, some people view the internet as a political warzone where points can be scored for their side/themselves. Some people might want a forum where guys can hang out and share tips, have discussions, tell jokes, whatever. But there will always be people who want to prove points and have their preconceived notions confirmed. I think that both can generate interesting discussions. I have been one dozens of forums since forums started and this is by far the best moderated forum I've seen.

I don't see anything wrong with threads that delve into deep issues like "How many guys has your mom been with?" We're all here for one reason or another. The internet is taking away anonymity and society can't evolve to the next level until people are honest about their issues and learn to tolerate other people's issues. Until we get there though, call me Jim Norton Fan because my real name will remain secret.

[Aliblahba]

(05-25-2013 02:27 AM)2Wycked Wrote:  

Which is what they want - a cult that reinforces their delusions about reality.

That sums up puahate. I've never seen so much bitterness on a website. They take it a step past jizzabel. Sad.

[2Wycked]

I want to add this video, start at 18:19:

Tariq Nasheed is a great guy and is very perceptive. Some of his social analysis is sublime. He can be very wordy and sometimes takes a long time to prove a point, but know he is very smart. His video here is on point. I'm surprised I didn't drop it in my post. He bolsters my point that alot of trolling energy is sexual energy. Unable to get laid, they troll. They need to channel their trolling energy into learning game.

[WestIndianArchie]

Where you don't tell the troll that you've banned them, and as far as they can tell they're still a vital part of the group, but they are invisible to the rest of the group?

Bang up post as usual 2Wycked...unless of course this run of brilliance is the set up for a masterful troll.

WIA

[JohnKreese]

Excellent, excellent post, however, I have a question. On this forum, I don't (think I) display trollish qualities. However, there are other forums that I am a member of that I am much, MUCH more trollish in my demeanor. Granted, I feel as though much more value is brought to my life through the insight of the (MANY) intelligent posters here, whereas, on the other boards (which I go to to read about my favorite pro football team...beta?), you have the typical dumbass rednecks, try-too-hards, etc. (amusingly, I uploaded the "Dark Triad" test to one, big hit, BTW, and the guys were shaming anyone that scored above, like, 40 on any of the areas. One guy was lauded for scoring something like, 8, 9, 7).

All that being said, are those like me who take on different levels of troll depending on the board simply bullies to those perceived to be inferior or is there something else at work?

[Nascimento]

'A pimp’s work is never done. You gotta keep on your grind, work hard and be aware of the world around you if you want to affect it in ways that benefit you. You also need to develop a sense of compassion for the world around you so you don’t become some racist, misogynistic asswipe who has nothing going on for him. It is tough and you may never crush the hottest women. That isn’t the point. The point is bettering yourself to the point where you maximize your potential.'

Thank you. This sums up some of the internal conflicts I've been having recently. Sometimes I feel like I look down on others because I feel they shortchange themselves. I need to take that focus off others and put it more on myself every day, to maximize my potential.

Additionally, this post makes me more aware of the work of the mod(s) around here. I am grateful for the effort put in to keeping this community in shape.

[Gmac]

Great post.

[2Wycked]

(05-25-2013 12:48 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Where you don't tell the troll that you've banned them, and as far as they can tell they're still a vital part of the group, but they are invisible to the rest of the group?

Bang up post as usual 2Wycked...unless of course this run of brilliance is the set up for a masterful troll.

WIA

If my approach is to troll at this point, I would have to go down as an epic RVF troll.

How would I do it? From a psychological perspective, if I was to cash in on personal issues they would manifest at as trust issues. At this point, they are just mental. I haven't had a manifestation of those issues in over a year. In the past, I would have ripped on some guy who liked me too much. Not any more.

Beyond that? I could do some serious trolling. Given how I write, I might be able to cook up some serious and subtle trolling. Honestly, it would take more work than I am willing to put in. That is my point - instead of dealing with life head-on, trolls use their smarts and whatever to construct realities where they don't have to deal with reality. It takes some serious rationalization abilities to make that a mindset.

I take a Larry David approach to trolling - I don't troll people I don't know, but I troll people I know. I would never troll Roosh or you, as I don't know you personally. If we are friends on Facebook - get ready. I once formulated a really difficult argument to understand - it was pro gay marriage. I had multiple people call me homophobic but I responded that it was pro gay marriage if they really understood it. LOL - I trolled the shit out of those people. They all deleted me off FB, but not before calling me an asswipe. My female friends have warned me repeatedly to not fuck with their dumb friends. I have used my good looks and intelligence to seduce women - it is easy to get some woman to qualify herself to you if you do it right. I usually put on the kid gloves, but know I love it. I have too many targets in real life to target anybody on this forum.

Like I said, trolls often have deficient lives so they need the web to act out their issues. I have many people to screw with in real life - I don't need this forum beyond bringing intellectual value. I am not an asswipe, I just like toying with people. Like a cat that won't kill or hurt mice, I just want to bat people around.

[kbell]

If I was trolling your style I would make up psychology terms like phobic and hyphenated narcissism to describe normal behavior. Then prescribe bull shit remedies like running into a McDonalds naked to heal one self.

[2Wycked]

Hey, naked McDonalds runs are a great avenue for therapy! Not really, but it was still funny to me.

(05-26-2013 01:25 PM)kbell Wrote:  

If I was trolling your style I would make up psychology terms like phobic and hyphenated narcissism to describe normal behavior. Then prescribe bull shit remedies like running into a McDonalds naked to heal one self.

[bojangles]

This is great, being of indian ethnicity i never know whether to laugh or cringe when IRT is mentioned

[2Wycked]

Giving this old thread a bump, as it has gotten some attention recently.

[Repo]

Nicotine on your dick? Brilliant!

[getdownonit]

(03-04-2015 08:40 PM)Repo Wrote:  

Nicotine on your dick? Brilliant!

Fantastic write up treatise. Valuable threads like these should never be buried.