[bojangles]

I'm wondering why the Orkneys and Shetlands dont go for independence too, you know throw off that Scottish colonialism of the past 500 years

[rangman2000]

(09-11-2014 03:46 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

I'm wondering why the Orkneys and Shetlands dont go for independence too, you know throw off that Scottish colonialism of the past 500 years

Stranger things could happen. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics...th-UK.html

[Haig]

Hey,

I have friends up in the Shetland Isles and they would quite happily become independent from the rest of Scotland as they really don't have much in common culturally with the mainland.

Hell if anyone has ever been up there on this forum, you can just tell that they are worlds apart with their dialect alone.

[Tex Pro]

[Que enspastic]

I used to find the Simpsons really funny as a kid. What happened ??

[TigerMandingo]

(09-14-2014 03:46 PM)Que enspastic Wrote:  

I used to find the Simpsons really funny as a kid. What happened ??

Yea it's not as funny as it used to be, but I think that after being on the air for 25 years we can give it a pass. It's been very consistent and doesn't rely on raunchy, repetitive humor like Family Guy or South Park.

[berserk]

(09-11-2014 03:46 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

I'm wondering why the Orkneys and Shetlands dont go for independence too, you know throw off that Scottish colonialism of the past 500 years

They make excellent whisky though. I believe they are actually Norwegian, so would be a smart move for that oil money too.

[The Reactionary Tree]

Too bad Scotland is full of leftist pinko Commie wankers. IIRC, the majority of Scots want to join the EU

So go for it Scotland. I don't think it will really matter.

[cibo]

Quote:

I used to find the Simpsons really funny as a kid. What happened ??

Most of the original writers and exec staff left around year 8 or 9. From there it got worse each year.

[Glaucon]

Interesting viewpoint on the whole independence thing:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/09/14...ing-point/

"Scotland – The Possible Turning Point

A number of question have been coming in about Scotland. Yes, it has the capacity to become the real Switzerland of Europe where capital would be attracted if they are out of the UK and the EU. Why? The EU is looking to more than just tax financial transactions, they are looking to even outlaw short-selling thinking they can support the Euro and their economy that way. They cannot get it through their heads that if you prevent people from selling, you will prevent people from investing..."

[Grit]

Wish them luck, whichever way they vote. Keep in mind though, that even if they don't have the numbers, William Wallace has been there before.

Alba gu brath.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEOOZDbMrgE

[LemonDrink]

(09-14-2014 03:46 PM)Que enspastic Wrote:  

I used to find the Simpsons really funny as a kid. What happened ??

I haven't watched The Simpsons for years. I figure Bart is still a teenager and Homer is still the blubbering 50 year old as oppose to a 80 year old pensioner in a zimmerframe.

[bojangles]

(09-14-2014 08:49 PM)berserk Wrote:  

(09-11-2014 03:46 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

I'm wondering why the Orkneys and Shetlands dont go for independence too, you know throw off that Scottish colonialism of the past 500 years

They make excellent whisky though. I believe they are actually Norwegian, so would be a smart move for that oil money too.

From what I understand, they'd take most of the oil which would be funny.

[Basil Ransom]

Why is Nigel Farage against Scottish Independence?

As a libertarian of sorts, I'd figure he would support more decentralized, independent government. Plus, Scotland votes pretty socialist apparently, so he'd command more of the UK's votes if Scotland quit the union.

[Lizard King]

(09-16-2014 01:20 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

Why is Nigel Farage against Scottish Independence?

As a libertarian of sorts, I'd figure he would support more decentralized, independent government. Plus, Scotland votes pretty socialist apparently, so he'd command more of the UK's votes if Scotland quit the union.

Various reasons.

He wants Britain out of the European Union(EU). Still maintaining some ties with the EU, but returning sovereignty to UK. The EU has an unreasonable amount of control in areas that a nation should be in control of. eg: Most Euro countries do not have their own currency, and many are in the shit because of it. The EU can changes laws, a few of which have recently been dismissed in the UK by our own courts(the separation is already there in a small degree; and we have our own currency.

He probably believes a united Britain has greater strength, and if the Scots go independent they will almost certainly want to be part of the EU.

The EU have said(at London's request?) that they will not allow Scotland to join. This appears to me to be a childish type of threat: 'if you stop being friends with them, we won't be friends with you'; motivated by Euro politics.

Some commentators in the UK suggest that Farage is just another member of the Establishment(ie: mainly corporate, as opposed to social, interests), putting his party across as one with social concerns to gain support.

Just my take on the situation, other Brits might have different and more interesting views.

[Saweeep]

Whichever way this goes, the Union is irreparably damaged.

I didn't realise quite how many Scots hated us English until this nonsense started…it's quite shocking.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Quote:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/09/14...ing-point/

Yes, it has the capacity to become the real Switzerland of Europe

Every country has the "potential" and "capacity" to become the "Switzerland of Europe".

Is there any political phrase in history more cliched, more overused, and more full of demagogy? I can't think of any.

Croatia has a lot of practice at becoming the "Switzerland of Europe". We've been using it to justify stupid decisions since 1918

Mr. Armstrong should bear in mind that Switzerland became advanced like it is today exactly because its people haven't been deluding themselves with becoming the "(insert country name) of Europe" or whatever nonsense, but because they were cooperative and hardworking people.

[Glaucon]

(09-17-2014 05:24 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Quote:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/09/14...ing-point/

Yes, it has the capacity to become the real Switzerland of Europe

Every country has the "potential" and "capacity" to become the "Switzerland of Europe".

Is there any political phrase in history more cliched, more overused, and more full of demagogy? I can't think of any.

Croatia has a lot of practice at becoming the "Switzerland of Europe". We've been using it to justify stupid decisions since 1918

Mr. Armstrong should bear in mind that Switzerland became advanced like it is today exactly because its people haven't been deluding themselves with becoming the "(insert country name) of Europe" or whatever nonsense, but because they were cooperative and hardworking people.

Switzerland shoot itself in the foot when it provided banking info to the US government. The safe haven status of Swiss banks sublimated overnight.

If Scotland becomes independent, it can be a safe haven to capital, because it does not have to accept any regulation other than its own. That is why it has the potential to become "Switzerland".

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Yes, but my point is that Switzerland is Switzerland because of its order and governance which results in a variety of beneficial industry and exports, not because of X factors like oil, banking or whatever else.

To think that Scotland will become Switzerland just because of a temporary status as a tax avoidance oasis is not realistic.

[Saweeep]

Scotland will never become like Switzerland. Never.

The nats seem desperate to sever ties with the rest of the UK only to jump straight into bed with the EU!

Salmond's financial plans are just outright lies. They will never get a currency Union with the UK. EU membership may never happen either (over Spain and Italy's dead bodies).

Don't forget their love of lefty, big state politics.

The whole thing is madness.

Frankly, I hope they leave.

It's a shame that it'll be a No vote.

[LemonDrink]

(09-17-2014 05:04 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

Whichever way this goes, the Union is irreparably damaged.

I didn't realise quite how many Scots hated us English until this nonsense started…it's quite shocking.

For long as I could remember the Scots would not support England in any sporting event like football. If England were playing say France, the Scots would take the side of the opposition.

The English on the other hand have always supported Scotland and would want them to do well. But in recent years with Scots wanting to break away, there has been a change in attitude. The attitude is one of 'We don't care if they win, lose, or draw'.

[Feisbook Control]

Why does Nigel Farage want Scotland to remain part of the U.K.? Well, maybe he wants Britain's history and tradition to continue, and so on. On the other hand, maybe he's playing a sly game. He went to Scotland the other day. I was discussing this with a friend of mine who is Scottish but doesn't want independence. He was going to go and see Farage. Although he wanted to see him, my friend was horrified that Farage was going to Scotland because he was hated by most Scots. I suggested that maybe Farage knew that by going to Scotland, he would piss a lot of Scots off and tip the vote to the "Yes" campaign. With the left losing a large part of their constituency, in the 2015 British elections, Farage could literally be the kingmaker. So he might actually be playing a very clever game.

As for my own opinion on this, although I have some feelings towards the notion of Britain, Britain is already dead. It has been for ages. It's a mere shell of its former self, as evidenced on the one hand by it's laughable relationships with both Washington and Brussels, and on the other hand, the nation being full of chavs and jihadists. London is more than 50% non-English now. Think about that for a second. It's perverse. Britain and England are washed up. Britain/England hasn't even remotely hit rock bottom yet. It needs to do that before it can begin to rebound and rebuild. A lot of people seem to hope that UKIP is going to turn things around. It's not. Things have to get much worse and much more extreme. At best, a UKIP/Tory coalition would slow the rot down. What needs to happen is things need to get much worse as soon as possible before any real hope is gone between the demographic changes and complete cultural Marxist takeover of all institutions and the culture. If things don't come to a head within the next one or two decades, it's game over.

As such, in the same way that I hope that the most batshit crazy/incompetent Democrat becomes the next POTUS, I hope the Scots remain in the U.K. and their love affair with socialism is just one more thing that drags the country down even faster. Real change -- revolution -- will come by agreeing, amplifying and accelerating, such that people finally can't pretend that things aren't that bad anymore. The so-called right has been trying/hoping to slow down the decline for decades now and failing miserably. Time for a new approach. You don't save the boiling frog by fighting futilely to turn down the heat, you save the boiling frog by encouraging your enemy to turn the heat up too quickly, or not standing in his way when he wants to do so.

[Basil Ransom]

I'd conclude thst Farage thinks more like an establishment member than he'd like to admit, when it comes to British, as opposed to EU, matters. It would be like say, a conservative politician in America opposing a popular Texan secession movement. Culturally understandable but ideologically aberrant.

I know next to nothing about Scottish nationalism, but everything I've seen suggests they hate England more than they like their own heritage and people, that they are an aggrieved bunch convinced of their own victimhood. This isn't the Scotland of Braveheart. And all that is consonant with Scotland wanting not independence, but a different master, the EU.

Feisbook, I agree about England. I spent a few days in London, and indeed it felt like there were fewer English speakers there than in the Scandinavian capital I had lived in. The country, on the whole was repulsive. The extent to which England is dead surpasses that of even the US. A surfeit of politeness and a scarcity of character and consciousness. Self-abnegation is imperative.

[RexImperator]

Some subconscious self-hatred is operating perhaps...what was the line from Trainspotting? Something like, "The English are wankers, but we were colonised by wankers, so what does that make us?"

[Lizard King]

Rex & Basil. Anglo-Scottish animosity and conflict is a part of the heritage.

On paper we(they) have spent more time apart than together if one follows a more cultural model for nation creation.

eg: England was ruled by Normans(French) for a significant period of time, but it was still England in some senses.

The actual beginning of Scotland/England is open to interpretation and depends on what models/framework is applied.

The Union began in 1707, and first monarch of both countries was one of the Stuarts in the previous century. Representing, at a push about 500 years of union. The time spent apart is full of turmoil and many harsh(understatement?) incidents perpetrated by the English.

It is worth noting, that today, parts of urban Scotland have some of the lowest life expectancy in Europe. So there is a lot of room for improvement, and it is unlikely that either outcomes will address the pressing social issues. And it might be too late for Scotland to do what Norway have done.