[Veloce]

Warning, this might be a long post.

I have 3 friends that I would call very close to me, as close as brothers. Recently, it's been an incredible case study in modern relations.

Friend 1: Falls in love quickly. Approaching machine. Not intimidated by women but after a date or two, or god forbid sex, he starts showing emotions immediately and freaks girls out. Has been pining for a serious girlfriend since I've known him and has never had one.

High quality male. Surfs, in great shape, teaches kids, fucking smart as hell. Too nice for his own good.

Friend 2: Wife left him 6 months ago. Professional cook. Crazy free spirit. People fall in love with him after 15 minutes of meeting him. Magnetic personality. I'll leave him alone in a bar or club and 15 minutes later he's got a circle of people around him. Unfortunately he believed in being up front with his emotions and being affectionate with girls. Wife left him for another dude. I've heard numerous people say he's the most amazing person they've ever met, but apparently not good enough for his educated, privileged white ex-wife.

Friend 3: Just found out today his wife left him, I don't even think they were married a year even though they were together for several years. Another brilliant mind. Surfs, scuba, races sailboats. Degrees in oceanography and computer science, another magnetic personality. Due to his mom's suicide and dad's recent death from cancer, he also is very "real" and up front with emotions and affection. Generous towards others, a total renaissance man and jack-of-all-trades. His wife also a white, educated artist from an affluent family.

The funniest thing about these guys is Friend 1 has always pined for something serious his entire life, but now that he's in his late 20s and is seeing what friend 2 and 3 are going through, his stance has changed completely. I'd been trying to feed him the red pill for quite some time but he wasn't really having it (just goes to show you can't convince people of anything) but I think he's coming to the right conclusions on his own observations.

Any scientifically minded male would have to.

You might think I'm partial to my friends, that my male hamster is spinning and reassuring my guy friends about "what a catch" they are. Nothing would be further from the truth. I tend to be critical of everyone I know and my friends know me for calling shit like I see it. Believe me when I say, if these 3 guys can't land a decent woman who treats them well, then this society is fucked. I've never been more convinced that being in a relationship and having a girl on lock requires more game than being single and fucking around. But who wants to do that?

Sometimes I think I'm a piss poor example and other times I might be a great example. I've had the same girlfriend for 2 years. In that time we've broken up more times than I can count, usually by her. She knows about a few of the girls I've fucked and doesn't know about many more. She comes back every time. At one point I thought that my dating life is completely fucked up and dysfunctional but lately the thought has been crossing my mind, "What if this is as good as it gets? What if this is the apex of being in a relationship?"

As far as I can tell, the "end-game" of relationships for men is to have a girlfriend that you keep on lock, a girl that treats you well and works hard for you. She knows that one wrong move and you're out the door to fuck some new pussy. You have flings on the side to satisfy your red blooded male habits but you keep them discreet in respect to your main girl.

I have other acquaintances that aren't as good of friends as Friend 1,2, and 3, guys that I know who are married and things aren't going well for them either. These are all guys trying to do things the old fashioned way. Be good men, take care of their women, be kind and respectful.

I know we talk about this shit on the forum ad naseum and none of this should be a surprise to me, but it's different when it's right in front of your face and happening to people close to you. Guys that I've known since we were riding bikes in middle school and stealing donuts. Playing hey mister in front of 7/11 to get cases of beer. Running from cops and getting booked. Taking mushrooms together out in the desert and talking for hours about the meaning of life. I still see them as these scrappy motherfuckers riding a skateboard, but now they're getting divorced.

I don't begrudge "the game" for myself. I'm used to playing games and being a dickhead. I've come to terms that women are little more than a pleasant accessory to have in one's life, that require constant maintenance and gaming to get the right results. But I begrudge "the game" for my friends. It's painful to watch. The friend that I found out about today; I thought things might be different with them. They seemed happy. I started to think, "Well, women are fucked up and relationships are horseshit, but there are exceptions. You just gotta sift through a lot of garbage" I'm not so sure about that now. I have zero hope for any decency in American women. These are guys that did everything right and still got burnt, badly. I'm not worried about them; they're completely capable and they'll be fine, but it's alarming what's going on out there in the wilderness.

I'm a firm believer in "adapt or die", but adapt to what? It seems like the only options are the MGTOWers that are deciding to drop out of everything, or guys that have to keep up with the most recent moves to stay one step ahead of the game. That's a lot of work.

It doesn't seem like a very happy arrangement in either case. It seems like the only option really is to go foreign, but even then, how long with that last?

End of times, I tell ya.

[Hannibal]

That's a damn shame. I'd have to agree with you that women do not appreciate things the old fashioned way anymore.

One of my buddies was what I would describe as an omega male. He has almost no friends, but I've always liked the guy because he's up front and usually not too full of shit.

He was engaged with this landwhale for a year and he knocked her up. She left him and is making him pay all kinds of child support. He works, I would guess, at least 80 hours a week in shitty factory jobs. I hung out with him six months after all this shit happened and he's fucked 12 different girls off the internet during that time and his landwhale of an ex wants him back because she realizes she's not worth shit in the sexual marketplace.

My buddy told her to fuck off, and rightfully so. Out of all my friends, he's done a complete one-fucking-eighty.

[jariel]

(04-29-2013 11:09 PM)Hannibal Wrote:  

That's a damn shame. I'd have to agree with you that women do not appreciate things the old fashioned way anymore.

Women don't appreciate ANYTHING.

[lavidaloca]

The Support system is the problem. Getting married is like winning a lifetime of pay. Its laughable. When they do those cash for life lotteries females laugh because they know a way easier way to get "cash for life." I'm sure only males are buying those tickets for that lottery.

[Hotwheels]

Quote:

I don't begrudge "the game" for myself. I'm used to playing games and being a dickhead. I've come to terms that women are little more than a pleasant accessory to have in one's life, that require constant maintenance and gaming to get the right results.

This right here.

It's come to the point that if your game is not on point all day, every day, the broad is going to get bored and find some other guy.

I like to relax now and then, so fuck that.

[bacon]

Great post thedude.

I think the point where I really internalized how fucked up America was for men was watching my close friends as case studies in how disastrous marriage with American women can be. That really crystalized to me that if these guys (employed, educated and good background types) all end up with terrible marriages and divorce then there is a fundamental problem with women in the United States.

On thinking back the only happily married guy I know in my age demographic in the US is married to a Thai woman (she speaks little English).

[tenderman100]

As Roissy has pointed out, you can game within the context of a long term relationship.

But it is very very hard.

Women are ruthless creatures. They probe, and prod, and poke, checking for weakness. If you supplicate, they will fornicate -- with someone else.

It sounds like your friends did just that. They expressed emotional needyness. Do that, and the woman will slut right away from you.

The hardest thing for a player to do is to be above the fray, disinterested, totally self-contained, even as you are HUNGRY for the pussy. For the guy in an LTR, the hardest thing to do is project power and dominance as the woman continually tests you and sniffs, like a REAL bitch, for the smell of weakness and dependence, even as you really want to be monogamous and dedicated.

As Roissy says, always have options. Options validate a man in the eyes of a woman. Woman SAY they want commitment, but what they really want is a commitment from a guy who could NON-commit in instant.

Understanding this paradox, and structuring all your behavior toward her around it, is the fundamental key to keeping a woman around. Otherwise, she's off for fresh cock.

[InternationPlayboy]

I've mentioned this a couple times on the forum, but this is terrible:

One of my best friends growing up knocked up a girl. I ended up moving in with them and the kid after high school, as we all needed places to live and we didn't have a whole lot of money being out of high school, it would be easier to do the room mate thing. After I move in, his girl starts to seriously irritate me. Then I find out she's stealing from my through some friends. Then I find out she's fucking another guy, and had been when she got pregnant. She told the guy she was fucking around with that the baby was his, while also telling my friend it was his. I found out about this from the guy she was fucking around with. I met him randomly at a party and he told me all about it, how she told him the baby was his and everything. I knew he wasn't bullshitting, because he didn't know my relationship to them at the time. I just told him where I was from and he said, "Oh, I know this girl from there, she _______." I brought it up to my friend along with her stealing shit, and he didn't believe me. We got into a huge falling out because he thought I was trying to ruin his relationship. I end up moving out of the house, and state at that, a couple months later as the tension was high.

Fast forward a year. I come back home to find that my friend discovered his babies momma had been cheating on him, but not with the guy I knew about, with her new manager. Surprise surprise. But it doesn't stop there. My friend (Or former friend at this point) ends up dropping the girl, they start going through a custody battle. A couple years go by, I go back home and am hanging out with a friend who still talks to him, and he gave me an update of my former friend:

So dudes dad is a total scum bag. He sells drugs, a lot of which to young girls, who he also has been known to have sex with. We're talking a 50 year old man with 15 and 16 year old girls, basically coke whores. So my former friends baby momma starts getting into drugs after my friend kicks her to the curb. She starts buying coke off his dad, and his dad and her end up having sex. A couple weeks later, she finds out she's pregnant with the dads kid. Straight up Jerry Springer shit right there. The kid obviously got custody of their child. Baby's momma ended up getting an abortion. If she would have had the kid, the kids brother would also be his cousin I guess? And his dad would have also been his grad father. Fucked up. I'm surprised he's still dating. Right now he's dating one of the high school whores growing up. Poor guy.

We're somewhat cool now. But I don't keep in touch. If I see him when I go back home and we're hanging out, everything's cool and we'll have a good time. But he never manned up and apologized. At the least he could have said, "You know what man, you were right." But it is what it is. I'll never look at him the way I used to back then when we were almost brothers.

Moral of the story, women can be real fucking evil.

[A War You Cannot Win]

One of my best friends when I was growing up ended up knocking up his high school sweetheart who was a few years older than us. The kid is born and he looks nothing like my friend who is a pasty ginger. The baby momma and him separate, he gets raped by child support payments, has to work at Wal Mart, starts doing Meth.

He's been off meth for about a year now, shacked up with some other chick we knew in HS who already had two other kids from a previous relationship, and now they just had a kid of their own, for a grand total of 4 kids between them.

He's unemployed, she works at Applebees. I get depressed as hell thinking about that situation.

[WanderingSoul]

"Friend 3: Just found out today his wife left him, I don't even think they were married a year even though they were together for several years. Another brilliant mind. Surfs, scuba, races sailboats. Degrees in oceanography and computer science, another magnetic personality. Due to his mom's suicide and dad's recent death from cancer, he also is very "real" and up front with emotions and affection. Generous towards others, a total renaissance man and jack-of-all-trades. His wife also a white, educated artist from an affluent family."

Jesus Christ. Poor guy's mom killed herself. His dad recently dies from cancer, and his cunt wife splits to fuck someone else? That's fuckin cold.

[magellan]

Quote:

But I begrudge "the game" for my friends. It's painful to watch. The friend that I found out about today; I thought things might be different with them. They seemed happy. I started to think, "Well, women are fucked up and relationships are horseshit, but there are exceptions. You just gotta sift through a lot of garbage" I'm not so sure about that now.

Man. I keep struggling with the same thing. I feel like it's a symptom of not having completely swallowed the red pill because lately I've just been constantly searching for these "exceptions."

Thought I'd found one. Came into a new social circle this past semester; this girl, 10/10 lookswise and pretty damn good personality wise, has had a boyfriend for the better part of a decade and has only been with this one guy. I don't catch oneitis very often anymore but this one was like clockwork: couldn't take my eyes or mind off the fembeast no matter how much success I had with other girls. After a couple months of subtle social circle game and one drunken night out, she tells me that there's more to her than I know and we're making out seconds later. One could write this off as a drunken encounter but I've been picking up fuck me vibes from this chick for a while. Didn't believe that she'd actually act on it: she talks so highly of this guy she's been with forever and how perfect and funny and sweet he is. No matter how red pill I claim I am and try to shove it down my friends' throats, I'm still somehow surprised at this. Blows my mind.

[Duke Castile]

What you're describing as far "as adapt or die" happens over an over in everything. You HAVE to renew yourself. To revitalize, to not be weary. Look at the male lion as an example. Has a harem, does what he wants, his only job is to be a badass, fight off other males, and enjoy himself. But at SOME point, he's a little slower. He's not as strong. Some other Alpha male cruises along and kills him.

We don't necessarily have to stay in the best shape to keep what we have but we do have to keep our mind fit. The "tricks" of Game are cool but all you really need is the right (forgive me for saying this) "Alpha male" attitude and frame control (byproduct of the attitude).

I can't imagine being married, looking back I don't know if I ever could. It seemed like this far off place that would happen one day on it's own. Now I realize it's just something that doesn't exist for me.

I'm staying overseas myself, the westernized attitude is just too much for me to have the patience to game them. Your ROI is much better over here.

[MikeinMKE]

Op you specify the race of the wives but not your friends. Any reason why? Just curious

[Quintus Flaminius]

Teach these guys about marginal utility, guys like these are like water, it's only when you're thirsty you realize how important this natural resource really is.
My advice to those lucky lurkers that HAVE landed the few decent women.
There's another flood coming your way, the US is going to sink, secure your future, build yourself an ark.
http://allnationsparty.com/

And the productive Betas need to move their business elsewhere.
This shithole is not worth it.
Femininity does NOT respect productivity, it simply does not.

I'm ready to bet 10,000 bucks that by the year 2030, Femcunts will definitely start a new exercise in subhuman insanity.
That would be intelligencism, let's face it, the Rethuglican shit for brains are not going to end cultural Marxism, I'm probalby risking a ban here, but apart from an armed rebellion, there's no hope for the US.

[Veloce]

Quote:

Jesus Christ. Poor guy's mom killed herself. His dad recently dies from cancer, and his cunt wife splits to fuck someone else? That's fuckin cold.

If you ever met him, you'd never know it. Totally upbeat, happy guy. I've been emailing him back and forth about his ex and he just wants to move on. I'm actually concerned that one day he's going to snap.

Quote:

I can't imagine being married, looking back I don't know if I ever could. It seemed like this far off place that would happen one day on it's own. Now I realize it's just something that doesn't exist for me.

I feel you here 100%. It's gotten to the point where marriage just isn't in my vocabulary when discussing my life plans. I'm fairly certain that even if I met a woman that was, by all objective accounts, a 9 or 10 in appearance, character, breeding stock, what have you, and she put down the ultimatum, "Marry me or I leave." that it would be about a split second decision for me to turn my back and walk out.

Quote:

Op you specify the race of the wives but not your friends. Any reason why? Just curious

I make little attempt at hiding my contempt for American women. When I say "white girl" I'm not just talking about skin color. I'm talking everything that "white girl" entails. I mean a stereotypical white girl; affluent background, SWPL, liberal arts degree, etc.
The thing is with these guys, is they might have some beta tendencies with women, but these are some of the most "alpha" guys I know as far as their lifestyle goes. They're about as removed from pop culture and the corporate machine as you could get. They'd probably identify with MGTOWers now that I think about it. They're all outdoorsy and don't really give a fuck about anyone's agenda but their own. I could call any one of them right now and say, "Hey, let's take a week off and go spearfishing in Fiji, maybe smuggle some acid and trip out on the beach." and they'd be down.

[samsamsam]

(04-30-2013 12:36 AM)tenderman100 Wrote:  

As Roissy has pointed out, you can game within the context of a long term relationship.

But it is very very hard.

Women are ruthless creatures. They probe, and prod, and poke, checking for weakness. If you supplicate, they will fornicate -- with someone else.

It sounds like your friends did just that. They expressed emotional needyness. Do that, and the woman will slut right away from you.

The hardest thing for a player to do is to be above the fray, disinterested, totally self-contained, even as you are HUNGRY for the pussy. For the guy in an LTR, the hardest thing to do is project power and dominance as the woman continually tests you and sniffs, like a REAL bitch, for the smell of weakness and dependence, even as you really want to be monogamous and dedicated.

As Roissy says, always have options. Options validate a man in the eyes of a woman. Woman SAY they want commitment, but what they really want is a commitment from a guy who could NON-commit in instant.

Understanding this paradox, and structuring all your behavior toward her around it, is the fundamental key to keeping a woman around. Otherwise, she's off for fresh cock.

That is sort of depressing, but I believe you. At some point, I would like to be married and have kids. But, I also know myself and I don't take crap from people. Except for the ones closest to me. Sort of a dilemma. Need to meet the right person, yet that means care for her, then that means my tolerance for crap goes up. And then be shit tested daily - fuck not a fun idea. Plus, I don't really wanna turn "controlling" my wife through constant framing into a full time job.

[nek]

(04-30-2013 03:06 AM)magellan Wrote:  

Man. I keep struggling with the same thing. I feel like it's a symptom of not having completely swallowed the red pill because lately I've just been constantly searching for these "exceptions."

This really resonates with me. This new chick in my social circle: Mid 20s, just got out of a 7 year relationship about 8 months ago, engineer, kind of a loner, doesn't drink or party, gardens, cute, but she definitely shit tests and before this relationship had a bit of a past. Also, when asked about her having a new guy by another friend, responds "there's always one lingering around". Now I can tell shes into me, REALLY into me (not hamsterization on my part), and I'm around her a lot (5 hrs a day or so), so I've started to kinda fall into this trap of thinking she's different and really being into her. I have to get on here to bring myself to reality almost everyday. It's tough.

[DarkTriad]

(04-30-2013 12:36 AM)tenderman100 Wrote:  

As Roissy has pointed out, you can game within the context of a long term relationship.

But it is very very hard.

Women are ruthless creatures. They probe, and prod, and poke, checking for weakness. If you supplicate, they will fornicate -- with someone else.

It sounds like your friends did just that. They expressed emotional needyness. Do that, and the woman will slut right away from you.

The hardest thing for a player to do is to be above the fray, disinterested, totally self-contained, even as you are HUNGRY for the pussy. For the guy in an LTR, the hardest thing to do is project power and dominance as the woman continually tests you and sniffs, like a REAL bitch, for the smell of weakness and dependence, even as you really want to be monogamous and dedicated.

As Roissy says, always have options. Options validate a man in the eyes of a woman. Woman SAY they want commitment, but what they really want is a commitment from a guy who could NON-commit in instant.

Understanding this paradox, and structuring all your behavior toward her around it, is the fundamental key to keeping a woman around. Otherwise, she's off for fresh cock.

Tenderman dropping wisdoms bombs again.

[Gallego2006]

The more I read stories like this, the more convinced I am that the ONLY WAY to have a woman invest in the relationship is by allying yourself well with her mother and father and other members of her family. The bigger the family the better too.

But, the only way this strategy will work is if she comes from a family that's not broken to begin with...and that's getting harder and harder to find these days.

[Divorco]

(04-29-2013 11:09 PM)Hannibal Wrote:  

omega male ... works, I would guess, at least 80 hours a week in shitty factory jobs ... and he's fucked 12 different girls off the internet during that time.

He has no money or status and little time, but he is pulling a new girl every other week? He must have strong online game and excellent closing skills. Or he is exaggerating his success.

[JimNortonFan]

Make the NFL.

Win the lottery.

Find the pot of gold that dude from Lucky Charms cereal is hiding.

It's the same probability as a quality LTR.

[WestIndianArchie]

(04-30-2013 07:53 PM)Gallego2006 Wrote:  

The more I read stories like this, the more convinced I am that the ONLY WAY to have a woman invest in the relationship is by allying yourself well with her mother and father and other members of her family. The bigger the family the better too.

But, the only way this strategy will work is if she comes from a family that's not broken to begin with...and that's getting harder and harder to find these days.

Lulz.

Can't be a boss if you haven't taken a loss, and best believe i've got my fair share of L's. (bigger stack of W's though) I am great with parents and family. I can impress sisters, cousins, aunties, moms, and Dads.

Her trifling ass friends is a different question - and usually if you don't like your chicks friends - you're in for a world of pain, you just don't realize it.

They'll go to bat for you in case your chick is finna fuck you over, but after you get fucked over - the family, friends, and co-workers will still be there. Making her feel better after having to make such a tough decision.

Indeed, you could probably fuck some friends and family post break up - but women have ZERO loyalty. They're not even loyal to themselves sometimes. (see their waistlines)

WIA

[Samseau]

(04-30-2013 12:36 AM)tenderman100 Wrote:  

As Roissy has pointed out, you can game within the context of a long term relationship.

But it is very very hard.

Women are ruthless creatures. They probe, and prod, and poke, checking for weakness. If you supplicate, they will fornicate -- with someone else.

It sounds like your friends did just that. They expressed emotional needyness. Do that, and the woman will slut right away from you.

The hardest thing for a player to do is to be above the fray, disinterested, totally self-contained, even as you are HUNGRY for the pussy. For the guy in an LTR, the hardest thing to do is project power and dominance as the woman continually tests you and sniffs, like a REAL bitch, for the smell of weakness and dependence, even as you really want to be monogamous and dedicated.

As Roissy says, always have options. Options validate a man in the eyes of a woman. Woman SAY they want commitment, but what they really want is a commitment from a guy who could NON-commit in instant.

Understanding this paradox, and structuring all your behavior toward her around it, is the fundamental key to keeping a woman around. Otherwise, she's off for fresh cock.

Fuck that. I'd rather be celibate than deal with that shit.

OR

Go to a culture where men are more valuable than women, and then the roles are reversed: she has to work to keep you around every day.

[Quintus Flaminius]

OP, these broads weren't that pretty, were they?
I mean, if that be the case, they're fucked, the hotter she is, the more severe the ass raping for him in the divorce court by Sir Lancelot.
Fuck, this is the reason, why I'd rather have a female judge, when my buddies get divorced by their wives.

[WestCoast]

This is going to be a but philosophical, but what is behind this dying need to have a "companion" in life?

Marriage and relationships in general with women are doomsday propositions. I truly don't believe a guy is monogamous by nature, hell what percentage of animals in the entire kingdom is monogamous? 5% maybe. This statement actually includes women as well. I feel bad for all three of your guy friends, there is no stepping around it but I think it is our job to try and find some sort of way to mitigate this dying need for a "female companion". Once death to the need for a female companion occurs... your mind is set free.

So instead of teaching guys to be players, we should find a way to deliver the following message "even if you spend the rest of your life without a girlfriend or wife you will be better off". This isn't a great way to deliver it and no one will believe it off the bat. I struggle with this message all the time. You basically need to convince men that they truly don't need a woman, once they believe that the entire world opens up.

Instead of marketing the manosphere as playerdom, how do we market it as "you really only need women for sex". That's the answer to helping your friends, trying to force feed the full red pill is like asking a guy to swallow a gallon of milk. Instead you need to trick him into seeing it himself.

I do not have an answer for this trick.