[the chef]

Lol why so hostile?

I'm about to finish my last summer break ever (8 weeks) and I fucking love my life. I'm in med school, science is one of the greatest loves of my life, but that hasn't stopped me from going out 3-4 times a week (less during exam weeks), learning how to box, lifting weights, hangin with the buds.

The money and power of getting an MD is great, but when my parents bought me my first chemistry set, and when I saw several surgeries and autopsies as I grew older, I realized that this was my calling.

Still, people always want to point out the fact that MD's, med students, and pre meds are all miserable. Hell no, my friends and I who have all gone down the medicine path don't regret it one bit; and sure as hell hasn't stopped us from having a good time.

Sorry if this sounded incoherent, I'm on the shitter on my iPhone as I type this.

[the chef]

And to the OP, I know I'm still kinda fresh out of undergrad (2 years into med school), pre med was the hardest part. Committing yourself and learning discipline when you're on your own at 18 years old is tough. If you get through it and really love what you're learning, it'll get way better; trust me.

[Nemencine]

To the O.P...please, dont waste your time talking to actual, practicing doctors until you've reached stage #4(until when you are already working volunteer at a hospital to get some experience.). why? sunk cost fallacy. All the established doctors will be hostage to sunk cost fallacy. i cant blame them: who want to believe that all those years were spent when they could do something better? It is only human. what you will hear from these established doctors is rationalization du jour. i would rationalize if i was in their shoes.

Point #2: It is after you've gotten your feet in the door as a volunteer at a hospital that is how you will be able to see different professions and see what is up with each department. without your feet in the door...how will you be able to go from one department to another to see what they are like? all your "objections" just makes no sense.

Point #3:
You know how many asians student i personally know that are now in medical residency? and the only reason they even choose to be doctors is because mommy and daddy want them to be doctors! Not because they want it, but because mommy and daddy wanted it...so they went to science programs...then medical school...then internship and residency...all because of mommy and daddy.....they personally have no interest or passion for medicine at all. So, no, you dont have to enjoy medicine to make the commitment necessary to be a doctor. Like i said, your "objections" makes no sense.

Point #4. Why wont a prospective medical students discuss medical school with other prospective medical students? are you even listening to yourself, dude? i am so done answering your "objections", bigxxx.

to the O.P....just read the FIVE STEPS plan and think on it.

I can keep going on like these with the rest of your "objections",mr. bigxxx....I just dont feel like replying to the rest of your "objections" because it is just pointless. the five steps already covered all your "objections". I call them "objections" because that is what they are.

if a prospective medical students cannot see that...then, good luck to him.

i have other things to do. i am finished with wasting my time on this topic with armchair theoreticians without personal or professional relationship with medicine. Thinking some "common sense" analysis holds water against harsh reality.


good day, sir.

p.s. i remember back at school...i had this class called "pathogenic microbiology" class...nobody ever seems to get an "A" in that class. regardless of many +90 grades(out of 100) they have. even though they did everything the right way. why? the female lecturer/professor is a cunt.

If she want you to write a 20 page paper(you better write a 25 or 30 page paper.)

If she want you to write a book report...you better write two book reports. If you do everything in the syllabus you wont get an "A".....and she wont tell you this. i found this out by talking to other previous students of hers....i try to confirm this with her, she wont confirm.

I was the one of 3 people to get an "A"...because i did all these extra nonsense...i even started a bullshite blog on infectious diseases in africa.

I talked to previous students to know what the lecturer wants and adapt to it. i did not follow common sense. i followed harsh reality. other lecturers like this? no. she was the only one.

I have had lecturers that gives you exam tests on the first day of class. 1st day. i am not joking. it was for protein and enzyme(a biochemistry kinetic class). I know this and i was prepared because i talked to other ex-students...talking to that lecturer beforehand didnt reveal any information. common sense, my arse.

(07-31-2013 10:18 PM)bigxxx Wrote:  

@ Nemencine

^I know that a doctor can take on a myriad of lifestyle because I have common sense.

Is it not apparent to you that a neurosurgeon, obstetrician, public health official, researcher, physician with medicines sans frontier's and a coroner have jobs that don't resemble one another despite all being MDs?

To be clear, money and status are great. But you have to enjoy the practise of medicine to make the necessary commitment to get through medical school-residency-boards. If money-status are your PRIMARY motives, there are other avenues.

You may wish to revise your 5 step guide before sending it off for the printing presses:

Step 1: read the book, no one denies training is tough. also depends what you train in; is OP gonna be an orthopaedic surgeon doing 80hr/week or a psychiatry resident doing 9-5? That book would jade the fuck out of someone for no reason

step 2: What good is it to interview prospective medical students? OP is basically one himself. Why not speak to DOCTORS who have been practising for more than 10 years and ask them 'would you do it again'? Those answers would be of value. Ask people who have arrived at their DESTINATION, not while they are going through the journey as it's a tough one

step 3: ditto step 2

step 4: meh..Once again it would help if OP knows what area he is interested in; otherwise, where do you suggest he volunteer??...ER? OR? Path Lab? ICU? Obs floor? Psych Ward?

Sure, volunteer work is better than nothing but still not a great gauge

Step 5: Agree, think it through

I don't need to answer your questions. I post in threads not for the sake of it but if I have intimate knowledge of the subject at hand. You can use your imagination to interpret that as you like. The OP can decide if anything Ive said is of value.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

(08-01-2013 10:31 AM)WesternCancer Wrote:  

Does anyone have any data on becoming a paramedic, or what the lifestyle/job is actually like?

From what I've seen, the primary requirement to be a paramedic is to be able to swear like a sailor. That said, being a paramedic in South Africa is reason enough to become unhinged. I love 'em though, those guys were my kind of crazy when I was still in emergency medicine.

But it seems like a stressful job with a high attrition rate with little opportunity for promotion outside of supervisor or trainer.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

(08-01-2013 12:33 PM)the chef Wrote:  

I'm about to finish my last summer break ever (8 weeks) and I fucking love my life. I'm in med school, science is one of the greatest loves of my life, but that hasn't stopped me from going out 3-4 times a week (less during exam weeks), learning how to box, lifting weights, hangin with the buds.

The money and power of getting an MD is great, but when my parents bought me my first chemistry set, and when I saw several surgeries and autopsies as I grew older, I realized that this was my calling.

I pity your patients, because after science, chemistry, money and power, you don't seem to care at all about sick people.

[Divorco]

To the original poster:

Medical students are nerds, with no game. There are plenty of virgins in medical school. For many, it is their first chance to relax and socialize. You need to seek other social role models to get game. On the positive side, physicians with good social skills usual get hot companions.

[Nemencine]

the darkside is strooonnngg in him. i approve. hehehe.

i am willing to bet you all my savings...during the medical school interviews, he didnt mention these little facts(science, status, money, power,) to the interviewers...instead...he must have mentioned,(...with eyes filled with tears, gazing tearily into the distant,...tortured by memory, throat choking with tears...) how he save a little baby in darfur, sudan. ehehehehehe.

i dont pity his patients...the best neurosurgeons are borderline sociopaths/psychopaths...(i will try and find the articles that conducted psychological profiles of different doctors)...they merely focus and channel their sociopathy/psychopathy into "socially acceptable" expressions.

(i just had to edit this post and add this video. absolutely delicious)

(08-01-2013 12:58 PM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 12:33 PM)the chef Wrote:  

I'm about to finish my last summer break ever (8 weeks) and I fucking love my life. I'm in med school, science is one of the greatest loves of my life, but that hasn't stopped me from going out 3-4 times a week (less during exam weeks), learning how to box, lifting weights, hangin with the buds.

The money and power of getting an MD is great, but when my parents bought me my first chemistry set, and when I saw several surgeries and autopsies as I grew older, I realized that this was my calling.

I pity your patients, because after science, chemistry, money and power, you don't seem to care at all about sick people.

[Nemencine]

(08-01-2013 01:00 PM)Divorco Wrote:  

To the original poster:

Medical students are nerds, with no game.

maybe. but how many do you know?

You want to see a masterful display of bullshitting and gamemanship and salesmanship? sit through medical school interviews. the lies are enough to make pinocchio blush.

(08-01-2013 01:00 PM)Divorco Wrote:  

There are plenty of virgins in medical school.

I wont know, man. How do you know this again?

(08-01-2013 01:00 PM)Divorco Wrote:  

For many, it is their first chance to relax and socialize.

hahahahaha. relax and socialize in medical school? haahahahaha. hehehehehe. hohohohoho. cool story, bro.

tell it again.

(08-01-2013 01:00 PM)Divorco Wrote:  

You need to seek other social role models to get game. On the positive side, physicians with good social skills usual get hot companions.

Friends at residencies tell me about the "game of throne" like nature of the backstabbing and vicious social games going on. Good luck outgaming them, game master, divorco. Who knows, you may be able to neg and successfully dominate a man with these kind of ego and self-importance and massive, stratospheric DHV with your bag of mystery method tricks.

afterall, he is a nerd. correct? who knows, your cool, DHV stories about banging chicks in XYZ of the world may make the slightest impression on somebody like this. hehehehe. good luck.

Frack it, man. I am done with these armchair theoreticians.

roger wilcox, over and out.

[bacan]

What do med students usually do in their 8 week breaks?

I'm going to shadow a doctor this winter

[Dusty]

Probably not worth it. The amount of work required to become a doctor will drain your energy to game or have fun in life. Doctors work pretty hard after training too. Often time shitty hours (up at 5am, 12 hour days, phone calls in the middle if the night, weekends). And you don't get paid unless your working (use seeing patients). Then with Obamacare, your future us uncertain.

Unless you have a top percentile energy level, don't do it. Otherwise all your energy will go towards work, and your off time will be spent sleeping and lounging about.

[Mentavious]

(08-01-2013 03:57 PM)bacan Wrote:  

What do med students usually do in their 8 week breaks?

I'm going to shadow a doctor this winter

The few I know do some traveling over seas.

[bacan]

That's cool. Nice long vacation for a few years, better than the depressing one week of Christmas and one week at the beach that most workers get.

[speeddemon]

Medical school is worth it if you can keep your debt levels low in the US.

In state medical schools are about $45,000 per year (30k for tuition/fees and 15k for room/board/everything else) while private medical schools and out of state medical schools can easily cost around 65,000 per year (50k for tuition/fees and 15k for room/board/everything else). Of course, there are cheaper and more expensive schools, but these figures aren't too far off. As of now, interest starts the minute you take out the loan.

Going in state is generally manageable in terms of debt, but going private/out of state can easily put you in massive debt. You will be able to pay everything back either way, but going for the cheaper option makes much more sense these days.

[Cyr]

Delete- personal info

[Vicious]

Nemencine,

Rep from me due to your on the mark info on med school. This is the kind of inside look that allows me to establish authority with people in said field.

Might want to tone it down though. Make the pill easier to swallow for other members.

[MaplesonD]

Disclaimer: I only read your post and briefly skimmed a few responses. I'm a 4th year medical student at a top 50 US school in a major metropolitan area.


My advice would be to think long and hard about this path - you've barely started down it. The advantage is you're still young, you've been exposed to game (although it sounds like your effort is lacking based on having no results). I would not get into it for the money, if you love science and enjoy taking care of those around you, those are two good reasons. I haven't heard of any doctor in this day and age making 2mil/year, and even 1mil/year today would be rare, at least in the US.


The time is a major issue - 4 yrs of med school, plus residency (minimum 3 years for family medicine or internal medicine, and most people pursue specialties afterwards. Any surgery residency is minimum 5 years, ortho is 5 + 1yr fellowship, I believe neurosurgery is 7 years). You're talking 8- 10 years from the day you start medical school.

Another time issue is how much you're actually working. Very few doctors work true 9-5s, you don't just leave your job when you leave the hospital. A surgeon's day starts bw 6-7AM and probably goes until 5-6PM. The first two years of medical school can be fun, without knowledge of game I was able to pull. However, you still need to study for tests, and there's really no limit to how time consuming that can be - you can study 5 hrs per day after classes or you can study 12hrs after classes. You will need to have decent day game because going out at night frequently simply isnt an option. And this is just the first two years of medical school - once you start clinical rotations, you can be working anywhere from 40-90hrs per week (usually 6 days), and once you hit the early years of residency that will be the standard. One of my residents works 4AM-7PM 6 days per week. You WILL be doing something similar to this for at least a couple years of your training.

My point is med school is all consuming and you will not be developing much as a person outside the realm of medicine as a result - this is something I'm still struggling to cope with and overcome. I'd advise taking some time off, thinking long and hard about this, and improving other areas of your life now.

It always seems like the present is the busiest you've ever been in your life and it could never get any more hectic, but your life will never be any easier than it is right now if you head down this career path. I know several 25+ year old virgins in my class, and thats not exactly something anyone broadcasts, so there are probably a few more. Work on your life right now - the fact that you don't have to pay for this education is a huge plus on your side, provided you're in it for the right reasons and you can get the rest of your shit straightened out.

As others mentioned, NP, PA, and especially cRNA are options worth strongly considering. Be somewhat skeptical of advice from other med students I read on here, not that their points are incorrect, but the first two years of medical school resemble college/high school much more than 3rd year on and into residency, when you'll be working in a hospital almost exclusively... no more class time.

[bacan]

Thanks for the new replies after I bumped this. I'm surprised we have so many people studying medicine here on the forums. I don't know if that's a good or bad sign, haha.

Sounds like Cyr's uncle has a nice lifestyle that anyone interested in this thread would probably aspire to have as well.

Either way, all the discussions in this thread only make sense if you think you can really be passionate about medicine to get through the schooling and enjoy the work.

[The Beast1]

It is, but manage your debt.

And dude, switch out of premed. It would be more beneficial to you if you switched to a more generic degree (chemistry, biology, etc), that way you won't look like a total fool if you decide to not be a doctor.

[bacan]

The other thing that draws me to it is it seems like it could be a thrilling way to make an impact on people's lives

I think I would love to be an ER doctor or do doctors without borders

Anyone know about what that more intense adrenaline type medicine is like?

[jimukr104]

Become a pharmacist. You work around young chicks. Avg salary is over 100k. You easily make 150k in a large city and the hours aren't bad..NO stress

In my opinion unless you are a workaholic being a dr is hard. They rarely ever retire early because they start earning late and have lots of expenses. I was reading somewhere that dr's seldom have high net worth's because all trier cash is income and they spend it.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

(08-07-2013 07:35 AM)bacan Wrote:  

Anyone know about what that more intense adrenaline type medicine is like?

I did emergency medicine for two years.

The adrenaline eventually stops. Emergencies stop feeling like emergencies when you've encountered the same life-threatening condition in a patient for the 20th time.

It gets to the point where you don't feel anything, really, it's just a job. If a patient dies after a tough resuscitation, you put on your best bedside manner act, break the news to the family, spend a few minutes answering questions and then go on to the next patient. Maybe have a laugh with your colleagues (in private of course) about some major fuck up you made during the resus, or about what weird underwear the patient was wearing.

Even when the resus turns out to have a good outcome, you're often too busy to even enjoy it. You've already seen two new patients by the time the porters come to fetch your resus to ICU.

In short: emergency medicine can start to become very tiresome after a while.

As for Doctors without Borders, the guys I met who worked for that organisation all seemed like self-righteous dicks, and it appears to be dominated by female managers - I personally would not survive in that environment. There are several documentaries on youtube if you want to get a feel for what they do.

[bacan]

Nice feedback on ER medicine.

Yeah I saw a documentary that was pretty amazing. But today I saw they only pay doctors $1500/mo? What the

[Vicious]

Doctors without borders is basically volunteer work. You don't do that because you think it'd be a cool thing to do. You do it because you have a deep yearning for helping people in need.

From a cost effectivness perspective the pharmacist advice is probably the best in this thread.

[Jazzman92]

Thanks for all the info guys I really appreciate all of your opinions. At the moment I'm pretty sure I'm not going to go for medicine. I've had the time to take a good look at the medical profession from an unbiased perspective since I first made this thread, and Ive come to the conclusion that it most likely would not be right for me. The theoretical aspect may seem really cool, but the practice of medicine is far from that. My dads a dentist and ive seen his lifestyle and it seems like a good path for me as well. Hes making 6 figures, working 4-5 days a week, and gets to choose the hours he wants to work because he owns his practice. Dentistry is a 4 years program after your BSC and doesn't require any extra rotation work so you can begin working immediately after graduating and specialization takes less time than it does in medicine. With my dads advice i could have a good transition into the field. Right now however, im just focused on making sure i can get good grades, lift weights and approach women in my spare time. Ive dropped about 22 pounds in the last 3 months and hopefully I can get down to single digit bf % by February or March. The exams and pressure really got to me last semester but im more experienced now from it and back on track in many ways.

[Architekt]

Nothing has motivated me in recent times like the thought of becoming a doctor. Absolutely loving my new course. I'm starting to think medicine is exactly where I should be