[iknowexactly]

(12-03-2012 08:48 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

- nice condos to buy in a good area of BKK: starting at 50k$, if you look a little bit outside the fun area, you can find for 30k$.
-in Pattaya, on Jomtien beach, saw a bunch of ads for condos 1 or 2 blocks from the beach starting at 30k$ and if you spend another 5k, it'll be fully furnished. Unreal. For BKK, for about 60K, you can have a very nice pad that you can call your own. Or if you want to ball, make that 100k, fully furnished, penthouse type of thing. I'm working on that...Smile

This is real interesting for me, do you know:

1) What are typical condo maintenance fees monthly? 1%?

2) Does owning a condo allow you to live there full-time?

Visa runs suck.

[anamericaninbangkok]

Quote:

I'm curious about some of the other people here who have setup long term abroad in places like Asia. Not like for 6-12 months, but thinking 5 years+ (AmericanInBangkok?). I'm thinking potentially of getting a place in Bali, the other option would be to be boring and just set up in Canada or Australia.

Blasphemy - don't even consider moving to Canada or Australia part-time. Also, if you're considering Indonesia, get out of Bali! Stay on the outskirts or one of the smaller cities.

Quote:

So for those who've lived abroad, how did you manage? First off just having close friends or relationships with people? Until you get basically fluent with the language which is a multi year process, it's almost impossible to have real conversations with people, so what do you do for friends? There are expats, but again, aside from the fact that you're both foreigners in a foreign country, you may not have much in common.

First, I'm a loner. I almost always travel alone. It takes time to meet decent people so you just give it time. As far as the language, it depends on how dedicated you choose to be. It doesn't need to take years to speak basic Thai. I did so in about a year. The longer you stay, the easier it gets. Make acquaintances, give time to make friends.

Quote:

Quote:

From reading lots of trip reports, It seems the longer people stay in SE Asia, the more trivial annoyances seem to get to them. Hopefully this doesn't come off as too racist or condescending, but the education here is bad, and dealing with people who aren't even grade 9 educated can be incredibly frustrating. It's literally like dealing with children.

If the people were more intelligent on the whole, chances are the third world countries we like so much wouldn't be third world and we couldn't afford to live in them! Patience...learn to ignore shit and be patient. It does help and it does get easier.

If you expect people to relate to you like they do in your home country you might as well pack it in now. Different cultures have different senses of humor. I won't watch Thai TV because it's full of over dramatic soap operas and comedies for complete morons.

Quote:

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The other issue is that no matter how long you are abroad, no matter how well you learn the language, you'll always be a foreigner. I speak passable Indonesian now, but in the tourist areas, even speaking Indonesian and telling people what certain things should cost, some people refuse to budge from tourist pricing.

Again, get over it. For every negatives there are at least five positives. Either that or get an Indonesian chick to make the purchase for you.

Quote:

So is it possible to truly integrate into Asian society? Or is all you can do is just stay in gated communities hanging out with other expats.

Gated communities with expats? No way.

I didn't come to Thailand to hang out with foreigners, I came to experience Asia and learn about the region. I feel fortunate to have a close-knit family and a handful of good friends and that's enough for me.

Personally, I've grown slightly bored with Thailand and Asia in general. There's not a whole lot I haven't experienced so I'm now looking into spending a few months in Africa or South America and a few months in Thailand. It may be 3-5 years before I am completely set-up and ready to roll.

Anyhow...as far as integrating. Yes, you can do so but you will never be Asian or Thai. That doesn't bother me one bit. I am what I am. When I stay in another country or region, I know going in I'm a foreigner. Not a problem. Frankly, I don't really care if I'm viewed as an outsider or not.

[InternationPlayboy]

To live comfortably in most South American 1st tier cities, you'll want $2500-3000 a month from my experience. It's cheaper than first tier American cities but possibly more expensive than 3rd tier and bellow.

[samsamsam]

(12-10-2012 03:56 AM)hnsight_roo Wrote:  

rented a nicer (but local) apartment for $60 a month

Wow, is that really possible? Any chance you could post some pics? Thanks so much for the info.

Great thread.

[hnsight_roo]

(08-19-2013 12:40 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(12-10-2012 03:56 AM)hnsight_roo Wrote:  

rented a nicer (but local) apartment for $60 a month

Wow, is that really possible? Any chance you could post some pics? Thanks so much for the info.

Great thread.

[JayJuanGee]

(08-19-2013 12:54 AM)hnsight_roo Wrote:  

(08-19-2013 12:40 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(12-10-2012 03:56 AM)hnsight_roo Wrote:  

rented a nicer (but local) apartment for $60 a month

Wow, is that really possible? Any chance you could post some pics? Thanks so much for the info.

Great thread.

HNSIGHT:

Probably, just having that amount of space for $60 per month would not be a bad deal.

Does the picture show the whole apartment? Is there a kitchen and bathroom? No bed nor furniture?

Maybe no need for AC, either?

I suppose it is easier to get away without AC, so long as you have windows on two sides in order to get decent airflow through the apartment.... Maybe i am not in good enough shape, physically, or I am spoiled, but it is a little difficult for me to adapt to continuous day and night temperatures (with high humidity) between 70 and 80 F (25-30 C).... I suppose you can get used to that?

[hnsight_roo]

(08-22-2013 03:10 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(08-19-2013 12:54 AM)hnsight_roo Wrote:  

(08-19-2013 12:40 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(12-10-2012 03:56 AM)hnsight_roo Wrote:  

rented a nicer (but local) apartment for $60 a month

Wow, is that really possible? Any chance you could post some pics? Thanks so much for the info.

Great thread.

HNSIGHT:

Probably, just having that amount of space for $60 per month would not be a bad deal.

Does the picture show the whole apartment? Is there a kitchen and bathroom? No bed nor furniture?

Maybe no need for AC, either?

I suppose it is easier to get away without AC, so long as you have windows on two sides in order to get decent airflow through the apartment.... Maybe i am not in good enough shape, physically, or I am spoiled, but it is a little difficult for me to adapt to continuous day and night temperatures (with high humidity) between 70 and 80 F (25-30 C).... I suppose you can get used to that?

Bathroom yes, kitchen just a small nook.

It's far above average for a local, and rare for a guy to have a place all to himself. A three story house, seriously large, would be about $150 - for you or me, that's sort of a meaningless difference. But if you're going to live in a place like Cambodia, life itself just won't be 1st world comfortable. Eventually you have to set foot outside of that apartment. And then it'll be dusty, there is no real law, no food hygiene, etc etc etc.

If you worry about A/C, in the bigger picture, nothing else about that sort of country will coddle you to that degree.

IMHO. You can of course manage to make it an island of being comfortable-ish, in our 1st world spoiled sense. But then, why even bother, I'd say. Part of the fun of living somewhere, to me, is to be some part of what that place is all about.

[samsamsam]

hnsight_roo - the plant cost extra? lol

Seriously, thanks for the info. I get that living with the people is part of the experience so I respect that.

My experience of Thai people is that they are pretty friendly and respectful - so I imagine you feel pretty safe there?

What is the commute like to get to the clubs, etc in the city from where you are? Hopefully, you are near some public transportation.

Thanks for the info!

[hnsight_roo]

(08-22-2013 11:20 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

hnsight_roo - the plant cost extra? lol

Seriously, thanks for the info. I get that living with the people is part of the experience so I respect that.

My experience of Thai people is that they are pretty friendly and respectful - so I imagine you feel pretty safe there?

What is the commute like to get to the clubs, etc in the city from where you are? Hopefully, you are near some public transportation.

Thanks for the info!

That was Cambodia. Living in Bangkok, different story. I lived alone, but most locals couldn't afford to do so.

In Europe now.

[Shikulu]

This threat is really helpful. As Western Europe hasn't been featured yet, here's a breakdown on living costs in Berlin, Germany. Keep in mind that Berlin is one of the cheapest cities in Germany.

Overall you'll need a budget of 1000 € / 1350 $ to get by if you're on a budget. To live comfy, you'll need around 2000 $.

Accommodation: Expect 50 €/ night for a decent hotel, if your staying longer a 1 BR Apartment will cost you between 400 € in the outskirts to 600 € in a central location. This includes water, energy cost etc.

Transportation: Monthly ticket for the public transportation is around 80 €, Taxis are expensive. There is a lot of car sharing options where you could drive for 0.29 € a minute. Buying your own car I would consider to much of a hassle for a short term stay.

Food: Cheap meal 5 to 10 €; Midrange restaurant about 20 € each.

Going out: Well the good news is that German woman hardly expect you to pay for their drinks, unlike in Russia e.g. Admission is typically 10 €, Beer 3 to 5 €.

[Sp5]

Cairo:

2 br 2 ba somewhat shabby apartment in good neighborhood is $520 per month without contract obligation, better places could probably be found for less.

electricity in summer - $22 per month (gov't subsidized, prone to interruptions)

water about $15 a month

payments to bawab (doorman, concierge, common areas cleaner) - $20 - 30 a month

food - 1 kg lettuce 2.80

1 kg fresh bread is 0.70 (gov't subsidized)

fresh killed plucked free range chicken $2.20

vegetables, fruits cheap

shawarma sandwich/roll up - $2.10

large plate of koshary (pasta/beans/dried onions/tomato sauce) - $1.80

gym membership upscale gym $380 for six months

Cairo Metro ticket for ride to any destination on system - $0.15

5 km taxi with generous tip - $2

half liter bottle of domestic Stella beer at package store - $1.10 in bar - $3 - 3.50

[Tiguere]

(06-19-2013 06:00 PM)pitt Wrote:  

Anybody care to say how much one needs to spend on average in cali, colombia?

Anyway..my budget for santo domingo, Dominican republic

1250 dollars = 50,000 dominican pesos

Rent = 250 dollars (i could easily get an aparment outside the tourist area for half of that price but i prefer to pay more and stay in a nice area)

Mobile= 2.5 dollars to 4 dollars per day..i spend a lot of money on calls

food = 13 dollars per day

I have no idea where the rest of the money goes..but i usually spend 1000 dollars to 1250 dollars a month and i pretty much do anything i want to do there.Its a very affordable city.

Is $1,250-1,500 really doable for a decent lifestyle in Santo Domingo? That's cheap.

What have some other DR vets spent while down there?

I've found a few AirBnb spots in the tourist areas for $400-500 a month.

[Tiguere]

Panama City, Panama

Accommodation: Furnished studio/1-BR in neighborhood in the center - $500-1,100. You'll have to have boots on the ground to find a spot around $500, but finding something around $750 isn't too tough.

Food: Groceries are cheap in Panama City, but decent restaurants are not. $300-400 a month

Gym: $40 for a gym locals go to in the center.

Taxis: Cheap...$3-5 anywhere in the city center.

Drinking: Varies. Some nice clubs like Hard Rock are $20 cover and $8 drinks. Popular spots in Casco Viejo can be $5 cover with $3 drinks. Going out twice a week plus dates you'll want: $400

Other: Hair, phone, laundry, etc. - $100

So with taxis included a decent lifestyle is around $2,000.

[Tiguere]

San Pedro/San Jose, Costa Rica

Accommodation: Furnished studio/1-BR in neighborhood in San Pedro near mall, university, and a few clubs: $350-500. Easy to find on Craigslist.

Food: Groceries are not cheap in Costa Rica and the restaurants are often shitty and expensive places that are Americanized. $400-500

Gym: $40 for a nice gym next to mall.

Taxis: Not cheap and a number of the drivers will try to rip you off. $5-10 on average.

Drinking: If you go out on weekday, you can save some scratch on nightlife here due to ladies nights. It's almost the same price to drink in the club compared to buying liquor at the grocery store, especially if you get a bottle. Still, budget $400 for nightlife if you're dating and going out a few times a week.

Other: Hair, phone, laundry, etc. - $100

A bit cheaper than PTY, you could live decent in San Pedro for $1,500-1,750.

[Tiguere]

Managua, Nicaragua

Accommodation: Options online are limited, so you'll need boots on the ground to find a decent apartment, but I've heard of $250-400 for a good studio/1-BR in a good locale of the city. I stayed in a decent hotel for a month and paid $750 with breakfast everyday.

Food: Due to living in a hotel, I didn't buy groceries here at all. But meals are dirt cheap here. You can eat meals at the mall for $3-4 for a full meal. Street food next to the gym was $2 for a double burger and fries. You could eat here for $300 a month, but $350 would be a decent lifestyle.

Gym: $55 for nicest gym I could find.

Taxis: Cheap...$3-5 anywhere in the city.

Drinking: Fucking cheap. Good rum for $7 a liter. You could go out to Chaman for a night and all-in spend $20. To go on dates and go out 2-3 time a week, you need $250-300

Other: Hair, phone, laundry, etc. - $100

Managua can be cheap. If you found a good and cheap apt, you could live nicely for $1,200 to 1,300. Managua could be done for $1,000 if you kept things really tight.

[rudebwoy]

Toronto

Condo - centrally located rent $1500
Apartment - $1000 - 1200
Shitty basement apartment in burbs - $550 - 850

Night out in a Club - $80 to $100

Monthly Transit pass - TTC $39.25/week

Meal in regular restaurant - $15 and up.

Movies with popcorn - $20

Car Insurance - $200 on average - I pay $160 for a 9 year old high end german coupe. If you are under 35 be prepared to get hosed, $400 a month is common in terms of car insurance.

Ticket out of Toronto - priceless. The same amount for a ounce of gold.

[UnionJack]

(01-14-2015 05:13 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Toronto

Condo - centrally located rent $1500
Apartment - $1000 - 1200
Shitty basement apartment in burbs - $550 - 850

Night out in a Club - $80 to $100

Monthly Transit pass - TTC $39.25/week

Meal in regular restaurant - $15 and up.

Movies with popcorn - $20

Car Insurance - $200 on average - I pay $160 for a 9 year old high end german coupe. If you are under 35 be prepared to get hosed, $400 a month is common in terms of car insurance.

Ticket out of Toronto - priceless. The same amount for a ounce of gold.

[UnionJack]

Bulgaria & Goa beat all the above hands down.

Do like many europeans & Russians do - retire early and spend the summer months (may-sept) in Bulgaria and then october-april in Goa.

Goa - $230 per month for furnished 1 bed apt in GOOD location.
Pint of beer $1.50 on the beach (Goa and Varna).
Restaurant western meal in tourist area $4.50 (Goa and Varna).

Join the club.
Beach life and cheap as chips. Simples

[GyopoPlayboy]

I can throw down some info on Seoul, Korea. Like a lot of megacities around the world, you can definitely find places here to match nearly any budget.

First off, about Seoul:

• Excellent and cheap public transport
• The range in cheap vs expensive things is extreme. The low-end can be VERY cheap and the high-end can be quite high.
• Infrastructure is solid. Not many crumbling or decrepit structures or fucked up roads.
• Taxes are included into all prices and there's no tipping. You pay what's on the price tag and nothing more.
• The cost of eating out at cheap places and cooking at home are close enough for the difference to be negligible.
• Western food is more expensive to buy at markets or eat at restaurants.
• Alcohol is not expensive. A generic Korean-brand beer will cost you $3 USD at most bars for a pint.
• Everybody drinks. High rates of liver cirrhosis here.
• The fastest internet speeds in the entire world for between $30-$40 USD/month.
• Gets all 4 seasons. Cold, windy winters with snow and hot, humid summers with rain.
• There are great, high-end gyms that have all the amenities of a Gold's Gym, but they'll cost $100-$200/month for whatever insane reason. Local, unadvertised Korean gyms will have some of what you're looking for and cost ~$50/month or so.
• Housing in Korea involves putting down a large deposit. Anywhere between $5,000 USD for a small studio up to several hundred K for the 3/4 room family apartments. Whether you use craigslist or hire a realtor, this deposit will have to be paid. This is the single largest impediment for men and women in their mid to late 20s having trouble moving out of their parent's home and being independent. It is also a great DHV if you have your own place. You can, however, find roommates on Craigslist who will sometimes not take any deposits. But then you'll have to deal with all the bullshit that comes with roommates. BTW, you'll get the deposit back at the end of your contract, obviously.
• Healthcare is very cheap. Doctor's visits cost ~$5-10 USD without insurance and they are very professional.
  

The LOW-END
Overall budget: ~$1,000 USD/month

• Rent: Will probably be a studio apartment near a university with lots of students. Tiny and cramped, but no more than ~$250-$300/month and will usually include gas/utilities and require a very small deposit. Great for late teens/early 20s crowd who are just getting to Korea and want to save a lot of money. Absolutely unthinkable in your late 20's/early 30s.
  
  
  The room:
  The building:
• Food: Save on costs by making breakfast at home, possibly dinner as well, and eating out for lunch. Look to spend roughly $400/month.
• Public Transport: If you commute everyday using buses and subway, you'll spend between $50-$100/month.
• Taxis: Cheap. Fare starts around $2.80, but goes up at much smaller increments than NYC. A $30 NYC cab ride would cost maybe $10 in Seoul. My average cabfare was between $5-10. Rarely any need to go further than that.
• Internet/Phone: Phone plans depend on how new the phone is and much data you use. Staying on the low end, you can get away with spending ~$50-70/month on both phones and internet.
• Gym: As discussed above. At the low-end, seek a neighborhood gym that'll cost around $30-40/month. They may have just a few 45's or perhaps no squat rack at all, so you'll have to make sacrifices.
• Going out: If you want to stay under $1000 USD/month, you will severely limit your nightlife/going out options. With that being said, you can still kick it with the boys at the bar each weekend because pints are relatively cheap. 5-10 drinks per weekend set you back $15-30. Pre-game at home with store-bought alcohol and stumble into the clubs with no entrance fees (stick to university areas). You probably won't be banging chix in that tiny shoebox you live in, but I've seen it been done. Just make sure she's not a screamer.
  

The MID-RANGE
Overall budget: ~2000 USD/month

• Rent: Nicer studio apartment or flat in buildings with around 5-20 floors. Deposit will be around $5000-$10K. You'll pay anywhere from $400-600/month. Huge upgrade from the shoebox of the low-end apartments. You'll have room to entertain guests and feel like you have some space. The best rooms to get are the loft-style studios, where you put a bed upstairs and your living room is in the main room to entertain people.
  The room:
  The building:
• Food: The reason why Korea is so cheap is because apart from rent, you can still choose to do everything else on a small budget. Like food. You can still cook at home for most of your meals. With more disposable income, however, you will probably eat out more just because it's more convenient. You can now go grab dinner at fancy/pricy Western restaurants 2-3x a week and not worry about going over budget. Anywhere from $400-800/month.
• Taxis/Phones/Internet/Gym: See above.
• Furniture: Now that you have more space, you will probably put down some cash on things like a comfy mattress, couches, tvs, audio speakers, kitchen utensils, shit like that. They're one-time costs. You can get a lot of stuff cheap off of craigslist. If you want nice things that are new, buy online at Gmarket.com, Korea's equivalent of Ebay/Amazon. I refuse to use couches or mattresses that others have used and I buy all new kitchen utensils. Cost: depends.
• Going out: This expense may probably rise the most. With more space available to you, you'll probably spend money going out to bars/clubs or entertaining people at your crib. You can now go out most nights of the week if you so choose and still not worry too much about your budget. When I was on this budget, I was spending roughly $800/month going out, buying shots/drinks, wine for my place, going on dates.
  

Don't quote me on this, but I believe $2000 USD/month is right around the average salary in Korea. Some families don't even make this much and they have to support 2 or 3 people. If you make that much as a single expat, you're automatically middle-class.

The HIGH-END
Overall budget: I'd say when you're making $4000/month, you can really start to ball out. Like I said above, the low-end in Korea is low, but the high-end can be expensive.

• Rent: Put down anywhere between $1K-3K for an awesome highrise apartment. At that price, studios will be hard to come by. They may be 2 or 3 bedroom apartments that are designed for families to live in. I split a $2.4K/month apartment with 1 other expat, but it was designed for 3 people. Huge living room, large kitchen, 1 master bedroom, 1 regular size bedroom, and a small room probably for kids which we converted into storage. The deposit was $30,000 USD. Rent was $1.2K/person with gas/utilities/building maintenance costing another $600/person.
  
  The room:
  The living room:
  The building:
• Food: My food costs went down, ironically, because I cooked more often at home. Food costs depend on your habits. I started going to Costco a lot more after moving here. I spent ~$500/month on food, trying to eat healthy and buying shittons of quality meats and frozen veggies from Costco. However, you now have the option of eating out for every meal if you want.
• Taxi/Internet/Phone/Gym: See above. My internet bill went down to $18/month since I was now splitting it. I did however start going to an MMA gym that cost around $100/month. My flatmate did crossfit and paid $150/month. He can do more box jumps than me, sure, but I take solace in the fact that I can still kick the shit out of him.
• Furniture: See above.
• Cleaning: We hired a maid to come through and clean once a week. $50 each time, which I thought was ridiculously cheap considering the space. $200/month. She even did our laundry and made our beds. Ninja Edit: It was $50 for the both of us, so only $25/person per week.
• Going out: This cost increased the most for me. To be honest, I was perfectly happy with my mid-range lifestyle, but I decided to see what the baller lifestyle looked and felt like. Against my better judgment, I started throwing down hundreds of dollars for bottle service at clubs in upscale areas and this brought me no more joy or women than when I approached them at bars and free-entry clubs in university areas. I dropped $1K in one night while entertaining a buddy from the US with a much larger bankroll than mine and I regretted it. The VIP rooms did not suit my style either, as I preferred to be on the dancefloors grinding rather than sitting and screaming over the loud music into some chick's ear. Honestly, there's really no need to spend any more than $800-1K/month on nightlife/going-out related expenses.
  

TL;DR: You can live very comfortably on $2K/month in Seoul. Anything over that is effectively just play money.

[DirectDanger]

@GyopoPlayboy
Great format with pics and different budgets. Very informative.

[jimukr104]

Korea sounds a lot like NYC. If you eliminate the housing issue most other things are reasonable. City caters to all income levels.

[Vacancier Permanent]

Gyopo,
Fantastic post man! +1!

Koreans in Korea are known to be very xenophobic and major cock blocks.

Have you had any animosity or hostility from the local guys there while at a club or bar or just walking? Specially in the higher end venues.

[GyopoPlayboy]

(01-15-2015 08:12 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Korea sounds a lot like NYC. If you eliminate the housing issue most other things are reasonable. City caters to all income levels.

As a native NY'er, I totally agree. Minus housing, your expenses really just depend on your habits.

(01-15-2015 08:31 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

Gyopo,
Fantastic post man! +1!

Koreans in Korea are known to be very xenophobic and major cock blocks.

Have you had any animosity or hostility from the local guys there while at a club or bar or just walking? Specially in the higher end venues.

White and black dudes face a ton of cockblocking. They'll be out taking a walk with their korean girlfriends and getting stinkeyes from everyone. Just the way this country is. You either learn to deal with it, or you go to Japan lol.

My experiences will probably not apply to you though because I'm ethnically Korean and blend in well. I personally can't remember any examples of animosity towards me.

[GyopoPlayboy]

Also, I'm seeing more and more that $2,000/month seems to be right around the average/recommended COL for a ton of these places. Is that just me?

[The Reactionary Tree]

You guys ever check out the Big Mac Index? The Economist made it. They essentially use the cost of a Big Mac to measure differences in costs based on the theory of purchasing-power-parity (PPP). The compare the cost of the Big Mac in the USA (the standard) and compare it to the costs of a Big Mac in every other country of the world. May not be the most useful in comparing cost of living but something interesting to check out.