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My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker
#1

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

Ok – here goes. I have a lot to get off my chest and am going to
talk about myself, so prepare yourselves.

The other night some guy got in my face and didn’t get out of it
when I warned him too. I head-butted him in the nose and mouth,
bloodying him, and then delivered a few punches and knees to his
dome. Ruined my own night. When the other two guys yelled at me
and asked me to leave the hotel room, I tried to fight them all.

This is typical behavior for me late at night.

I’m over 30 years old – getting too old for this shit, Man.

In retrospect, I may have encouraged him to get in my face so I
could do it. I'd had issues with the guys' behavior in the past, and
the potential was there, so I subtly invited it, and when it came I
gave him just enough warning to think twice about what he was
getting himself into before I unloaded on him like a ton of bricks.

I think this probably happens more often than I admit to myself.
This is my dark side.

I’ve socked up or injured at least 4 people this month alone while
under the influence of alcohol. Several more almost got it but I
stopped myself or they realized what they were dealing with before
it was too late. I’ve probably broken my hand about 9 or 10 times in
my life – maybe more – I don’t even bother going into the doctor
when it happens anymore, and the result is that my hand is bent
and crippled looking. Just ask OG how messed up it looks.

I can still use it, but sometimes on cold days I can’t move my pinky.
Major arthritis in my future.

I’ve probably been in over a hundred fights and usually these fights
consist of nothing more than me unloading on people. They barely
ever get even a shot on me, even when its been me and my buddy
against multiple people with the odds far out of our favor.
Apparently I must not look like much to people out looking for
trouble but I’m a natural brawler, I’m extremely violent, and
although I typically start off by backing down I bring it up about 5
levels in a heartbeat.

I’ve put people in hospitals. I've broken glasses and bottles over
faces. I’ve left people unconscious and bleeding, with no one else
around, and checked the papers the next day to make sure no one
turned up dead. Wrecked motorcycles while hammered. Gotten
suicidal. Fucked Asian hookers without a condum. Have been
drugged and robbed by nasty sluts in Asia too – simply because I
got drunk enough and went to the wrong venues.

I’ve run from the cops who knows how many times, fought with
some real gangsters, and had hits put out on my life – partly out of
sheer shitty luck but likely could have been avoided if not for poor
drunken decisions and/or drawing too much attention to myself
around town with my crazy reputation.

Even as a teen, there were times I got so mad and unloaded on
walls that it took 5 people to subdue me. The fact that I’ve made it
this far in life without ending up dead or in jail, hurting someone
really bad, or getting stabbed is starting to seem more and more like
a miracle the older I get.

All because of liquor. I used to get like that sober when I was a kid,
but I got control of it, and now it’s always the alcohol. How mature…

It’s a good thing I don’t do other drugs…

As you can imagine, this post has been a long time coming.

I’m Ready to Change

It’s not just the violence that makes me want to change the way I
deal with alcohol. I’d say that if there’s anything holding me back in
life, it’s the drinking. Hangovers are usually what cripple any
workout program I start.

My productivity suffers, and that affects my business and my money
– I’m living the dream making $500 - $700 in a day online when I
just find the motivation to sit down and work, so this alone is
absolutely retarded.

I would be doing very well financially if my life were more together.
Instead I just get by.

On top of that, drinking affects my game big time. First off, it has
become a major crutch. I’ve always been the fun-loving party-boy
and women love this about me upon initial meeting. I can get that
same vibe flowing when I’m sober or only have a couple drinks, but
the majority of the time anymore I just use the alcohol to boost
myself right into it.

In fact, I’d say that the majority of the time when I go out, I’m going
out to meet women, especially if in a new city. Considering the end
results, the personal sacrifices I’m making to meet women are
ridiculous.

The fucked up part is, however, that the drinking I lean on to game
has also become the most common thing to sabotage my game. I’ve
been drinking so hard for so long that after I drink enough to get
going I don’t stop. After a while, I get so hammered that getting laid
is a near-impossibility – I just get too sloppy and at this point it
sometimes even becomes a bitch to get it up.

And I’ve fucked some real nasty broads when drunk even though I’m
one of the pickiest bastards around when sober.

Drinking has also affected my sex drive and my stamina. My
erections aren’t as hard as they used to be. My testosterone levels
are low. I eat like shit when hung over and drunk, and I’m seriously
out of shape due to sedentary behavior and poor lifestyle choices.

The Cold, Hard Truth


Alcoholism is a real danger for me, and I’d be lying to myself if I said
it hasn’t already sunk it’s teeth in, obviously – especially after living
in Thailand for nearly 5 years, where going off the deep end
becomes so easy. I came seriously close. It runs in my family too.
My mother is a major alcoholic who lately has been on the verge of
drinking herself to death after a family tragedy. My father and my
uncle were both alcoholics and both OD’d on heroin.

It all sounds like a nightmare, I know. But even after all this, I’m not
ready to completely separate myself from alcohol forever.

Call me crazy but I like alcohol in moderation. It breaks down social
barriers and makes it really easy to get to know people quickly. I
enjoy a nice scotch or a wine or a well-made cocktail. I enjoy the
history and culture of alcohol. And I like going out from time to time
and having a couple drinks.

I don’t want to be that guy who had to quit because he couldn’t
manage his own shit…because I know that I can as much as this
post makes it sound like I’m a lost cause.

For one thing, I know I’m the kind of person who can handle alcohol
in moderation because I’ve tried it and had no problems. I’ve quit
for four months at a time to prove to myself I could, and during this
time I even went to bars and played pool and gamed women. No
problem. No cravings. No physical addiction.

I’ve also spent long periods of time using a limit – such as 3 drinks in
a night – and had no problem with it either. As long as I use
pre-established rules, I have no issues controlling myself. It’s when
I convince myself that I can drink just like all my friends who slam
shots and keep on drinking and don’t end up putting a hurting on
themselves that I suffer.

Where I Want to Be


I’ve got two types of game when I drink. One is the crazy, caveman,
funnest guy at the party, not-give-a-fuck game. This actually
garners me a lot of attention, and I can walk into a bar even after
drinking for two days straight and have every girl in the place
responding to me even though I’m reeking of stale booze and
haven’t brushed my teeth (this multiple-day drinking behavior is
common both in Thailand and here in Humboldt County where I'm
staying right now).

My buddies love bringing this guy out because there is never a
shortage of women around to hit on.

Obviously, this side of me is extremely damaging to my health and
usually results in a ton of phone numbers I can cultivate later on but
not so much instant pussy as I get so loaded and am so focused on
just have a rock-star type of blast that I never try to bring them
home. Usually if I do end up home with them it’s because they grab
me and say let’s go, or the bar closes and there’s no after-party.

If anything, it gets my buddies laid more than me.

My other game when I’m drinking is mellow, subtle, and together.
This is usually the version of myself when I make a conscious effort
to slow down. I have a few drinks and talk to a few girls, but I’m
more together so the resulting quality of girl is better. This game
also results when I meet a woman on another night or during day
game and go out with her for a drink. Since I’m with someone
already, I don’t feel that I need to go buck wild and get drunk as a
skunk and hit on everything in site.

To be honest, I am this latter guy so seldom now that I’m not even
sure how the success rate compares to the other approach
anymore. That said, I do know that earlier in the night, when I’m
still somewhat sober, I tend to get opened by higher-quality
women. I get opened by women every time I go out – usually
earlier in the night when I’m more sober and the bar is less
crowded. These are the ones I should be capitalizing on and this is
the approach I want to embrace with my drinking.

I Know What You’re Thinking

Anyone reading this who knows a thing or two about alcoholism or
thinks they do probably thinks I’m a fool for thinking I can control it,
but I don’t buy the typical AA-type thinking. I personally believe that
by making a decision and practicing willpower, I can adopt any habit
– even conquering the destructive behavior outlined above.

I’m one of the most mentally-strong guys out there, and I truly
believe you’re only an alcoholic if you choose to be.

Here’s My Plan


I got a Kindle book earlier this year that was written for people who
want to teach themselves to be moderate drinkers rather than
quitting altogether. It’s called “7 Weeks to Safe Social Drinking: How
to Effectively Moderate Your Alcohol Intake.”

http://www.amazon.com/Weeks-Safe-Social-...e+drinking

It’s obviously not the best plan for major alcoholic, but I stand by my
assertion that I still can control myself. The book presents a simple
but effectively presented game plan.

I only followed the program for a few weeks and was liking the
results and then there was a family medical emergency that left me
in a new city with an alcoholic uncle who drinks a 12-pack a day. We
stayed there for a week together in a hotel, and it didn’t take long
for me to start hitting the bars with him in between visits to the
hospital. I hadn’t been out of the hills for all summer and as soon as
I hit the city I was ready to party and pursue the talent.

Sent me right back to where I started.

Given my behavior when drinking lately, I want to give it another
go.

I’m still young, but I’ve spent my entire life being the hard partier
since I was about 13 years old. A lot of my potential has been
flushed down the toilet as a result. Every one I know who has gone
to prison or died young has done so because of alcohol or drugs. I
don't want that to happen to me.

Here’s my thinking. I had a lot of fun over these years. But I’ve
partied quite enough, I think. It’d be nice to see what the other side
of the population does and how they live. It’d be nice to improve my
health and be in the best shape of my life in my 30s. New habits
and interests. To explore my spirituality. To take my business
seriously.

To live longer and avoid the health problems of a heavy drinker.

And to leverage my mellower, more-together self to bang higher-
quality women.

In my opinion, as long as I don’t get a hold of my drinking, I can only
grow so much in life. I can only experience so much success. I’m
ready to move to that next level.

Leveraging This Forum for Self-Progress

This thread is going to be my chronicle of getting a hold of my
increasingly-destructive behavior and becoming a responsible
moderate drinker who can still go out for a drink or three or even 5
over a long night out but not venture into the rabbit hole.

Here’s How the First Week Works

In the first week of “7 Weeks to Safe Social Drinking,” you have to
adopt a simple set of rules for that week – it’s a time to “reset” your
drinking habits and get yourself on track. This week was really
simple for me the first time around, and in fact the rules seem pretty
lax, so I’m not expecting it to be a challenge this time. But since I’m
starting over I’m going to start from the beginning again, so here
are the rules presented in the book anyways.

1. No more than 3 drinks a day.

Note: Author mentions that you should be spending more than 3
hours a day on drinking anyways because it’s a sad waste of time.
That context really made sense to me.

2. No more than 1 drink per hour. (easier than it sounds when you
make it a conscious effort to keep your eye on the clock and set the
drink down once in a while)

3. At least 2 non-drinking days over the week.

4. Eat before and during drinking.

5. Watch portions. 1 ½ ounces of liquor, 12 ounces of beer (no
pints), or 5 ounces of wine is a drink.

The book also instructs you to keep a drink journal each and every
week, so I’ll be making a post every Sunday or Monday to report on
the previous week, including how many drinks I had each day,
whether I slipped, and other notes, etc. I might as well throw any
basic experiences with women and how my drinking or lack of
drinking played into it as well.

If I act like a dumbass and knock someone out I’ll let you know since
that type of violence is obviously a major problem for me.

Each week, new concepts are introduced – after the first week you
are allowed more than just 3 per day, depending on your sex and
weight, so I’ll be getting into more volatile territory at that point.
This first week will be a breeze.

In my updates, I’ll discuss the concepts gone over in the book as a
way to internalize them and also give anyone else who is interested
in getting a better grasp on their drinking habits something to work
with.

Some Personal Rules for Myself

Obviously, my behavior is extreme, and I’m going to have to change
a few other things about my life to not only make this work but to
embrace this other part of myself that I want to become and to
avoid destructive situations and destructive behavior. Here are a
few:

1. Change the bars I go to. Focus more on Happy Hours, wine bars,
and other mellow spots where the emphasis is not just on getting
as fucked up as possible. This will also help me avoid douche bags
without manners.

2. Have an exit plan and exit time when I go out.

Far too often I go to the bar chasing women and if I don’t pull
something by the end of the night I go to the after-parties and keep
drinking. I need to know ahead of time that if there’s nothing
promising by closing time, I need to go home and save my liver and
keep the rest of my life in check.

Un-guaranteed pussy is not worth my life, my health, and my
freedom.

If I’ve got something on the line, I need to either take it back home
or get a number and meet up again later – being able to walk away
will put me in a better position with her anyway, and I won’t get so
drunk as to smash someone in the face or fuck it up in some other
way.

3. Day game. I want to seriously focus on day game and stop
spending so much time in bars as a way to get pussy . I’m not that
old but I’m not getting any younger either.

I think day game is great because it means better-looking women,
less flakes, less competition, and skills you can build on for life. In
club-style meat markets, it gets harder and harder to pull as you get
older, I’m thinking.

I want to be the guy who at 50+, when my looks are going, can still
conversate younger women into sex.

4. Separate myself from friends who always want to party.

It’s cool to stop by and talk with these dudes about business and
catch up, etc, - because I respect them - but I need to stop going
out with people who just want to take shot after shot and go all
night. Cats live fast where I come from. These guys don’t have the
problems I do (yet) and can play like that, but I’ve proven to myself
time and time again that I can’t.

My solo game typically yields better results anyways…And my old
school friends who drink often end up hanging with trashy, shady
people. These are the types I usually end up boxing to the ground.

If I am going to go out with these guys I need to a)sober drive, b)
know when to check out, or c) make my own choices about how
much to drink instead of getting caught up in the moment and letting
people throw drinks at me, etc.

Fortunately, even my hard-partying friends support me and are
going to be friends of mine for life no matter what I do. We grew up
in the same damn trailer park together. We lived hard together. We
came up together. They’re not going anywhere no matter what, and
for that I’m grateful.

That said, I do want to adopt a new set of friends who live more in
line with where I want to be in my life. More of a focus on health,
self-control, and self-actualization. And game.

5. My hand seriously cannot sustain much more damage than I’ve
already subjected it to. I honestly don't like the though of hurting
people, and I don’t want to end up in jail. I’m making a pact with
myself that the only time I can get physical with someone is if they
get physical with me or someone I care about.

Getting into martial arts with an emphasis on self-control would also
be benificial.

I’m going to avoid places and people that have potential for violence
and start excusing myself from the situation when my instincts get
my internal alarms ringing. I need to re-embrace the ability to
neutralize someone without “teaching them a lesson” and stop
giving them a reason to give me a reason – I am really good at
walking away when in control of my mental faculties.

6. I need to keep a goal in mind when I go out and isolate with
women quickly. I get caught up in the fun of the party and often
wait far too long to bring an easy lay out to the car or back to the
house. If I escalate quicker, I can spend far less time in bars.

In Closing

Thanks for reading, and wish me luck with this major change in my
life - it's taking me some real honesty here to open up with you guys
like this. I’m hoping that by being public about this serious problem
in my life with all you guys here I’ll have more reason to stick with it
and be congruent. I know a lot of you guys here sustain a fun
lifestyle with plenty of pussy but don’t drink a whole lot, so I couldn’t
ask for a better peer group.

I have no doubt this decision will affect every single part of my life,
from my health to my sex life to my money to my inner game.

"The past does not equal the future." - Anthony Robbins

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
Reply
#2

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

Good luck man, but why aren't you considering cutting out the booze altogether?
Reply
#3

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

Quote: (10-29-2012 09:35 PM)scotian Wrote:  

smoke dope.
I was going to say that. I like to have two or so drinks then mix some weed in and it slows down my drinking. I would say it's a good start and also to get one small bottle of whatever and some weed and limit yourself to that for the night. Drinking casual is an art that takes years to master. My dad drank scotch and ice and he knew it was gross but would sip it slow slow. Vodka is the crack of booze. It mixes easy and goes down fast. Even people who quit cigs are told to start by switching to the brand they hate the most. It may help to stop for a couple weeks to regroup. If you cant then you know you have a bigger problem then have to switch gears.
Reply
#4

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

Quote: (10-29-2012 09:35 PM)scotian Wrote:  

Good luck man, but why aren't you considering cutting out the booze altogether?

I have at times - no doubt.

But...

1) I think it's a more unrealistic approach.
2) I don't think it's necessary.
3) I think I can work with moderation - I have a lot of self-control when I choose to practice it.
4) I don't want to be that guy that never drinks and can't manage drinking - I still enjoy alcohol in small amounts. It's reckless drinking that proves to get out of hand. As long as I stop before my BAC is too high, stopping is no problem. Moderate drinking is a style I think I can work with.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
Reply
#5

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

Beyond Borders,

Personally I subscribe to the theory that really tasting your drink slows you down big time. Times I ever drink 7-8+ drinks, I'm not even tasting, I'm just downing them automatically.

If you do this, you might discover you actually hate what you've been drinking for years. If so, switch to something that tastes good...no matter if its a girl drink. Good luck.
Reply
#6

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

Good luck!
Reply
#7

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

I'd talk to a third person "counselor/psychologist" about your issues with violence. Just talk about it.

These sorts of issues have their roots somewhere, not just in alcohol. It's too easy to put the blame there - I think. If you don't deal with the cause of this, it could creep up on you over the course of your lifetime and really cause you much more trouble than just a broken hand.

Thanks for sharing.
Reply
#8

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

Good luck, though I'm curious now about your online business.
Reply
#9

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

Quote: (10-29-2012 11:54 PM)Technics Wrote:  

Personally I subscribe to the theory that really tasting your drink slows you down big time. Times I ever drink 7-8+ drinks, I'm not even tasting, I'm just downing them automatically.

This is why i love wine and cocktails, taking your time and really getting your senses into what you're drinking. I regularly drink whole bottles of wine (about 8 standard drinks) over 3 hour periods. An Old Fashioned can carry me 30-60 minutes.

Good company helps too. If you're hanging around people you want to beat half to death, maybe it's time to think about how you pick your venues, or your friends. Chill out and game bitches over a nice glass of red.

Feel free to PM me for wine advice or other stuff
ROK Article: 5 Reasons To Have Wine On A Date
RVF Wine Thread
Reply
#10

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

Quote: (10-29-2012 11:54 PM)Technics Wrote:  

Beyond Borders,

Personally I subscribe to the theory that really tasting your drink slows you down big time. Times I ever drink 7-8+ drinks, I'm not even tasting, I'm just downing them automatically.

If you do this, you might discover you actually hate what you've been drinking for years. If so, switch to something that tastes good...no matter if its a girl drink. Good luck.

Good idea. I definitely find I drink red wine slower. I also tend to drink scotch on the rocks pretty slow - mostly because it's so strong.

Quote: (10-30-2012 01:16 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

Good luck!

Thanks!

Quote: (10-30-2012 03:18 AM)tiggaling Wrote:  

I'd talk to a third person "counselor/psychologist" about your issues with violence. Just talk about it.

These sorts of issues have their roots somewhere, not just in alcohol. It's too easy to put the blame there - I think. If you don't deal with the cause of this, it could creep up on you over the course of your lifetime and really cause you much more trouble than just a broken hand.

Thanks for sharing.

You're absolutely right. I did go to therapy in high school because I was basically going to be expelled if I didn't, and a couple quick sessions set me straight for a very long time.

I'm well aware of the deeper issues behind my behavior and looking at my past there's quite a bit of reason for it be there. But when I'm sober I'm fully in control of it and a very collected and positive person. When I'm drinking and get to that point where I'm not fully using my frontal lobe, that's when it rears it's ugly head again.

But you're right. In a lot of ways the violence is probably still there under the surface but is just far more easily provoked when I'm under the influence. I guess it's so hard to bring it out of me when sober that I pretend it's not there.

I've definitely considered doing therapy and I think I'll look into it more to see what the options are - if nothing else, I know there is a lot of stuff I need to sort out from my past that still holds a bit of a grip on me even if I choose to sweep it under the rug. And I'm sure having someone to talk to regularly would help keep me on track with my goals for myself.

Thanks for the advice.

Quote: (10-30-2012 03:22 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Good luck, though I'm curious now about your online business.

Believe it or not, it's mostly just online writing, Roosh. I wrote a thread on here about it before.

Quote: (10-30-2012 03:33 AM)Tengen Wrote:  

Good company helps too. If you're hanging around people you want to beat half to death, maybe it's time to think about how you pick your venues, or your friends. Chill out and game bitches over a nice glass of red.

Definitely. I mentioned this above. A big part of my gameplan is to be more conscious of the people and situations I put myself around. that'll mean wine and jazz bars - and checking in before the late night hours when the freaks come out or the late night drunks turn into dipshits (including myself, I suppose).

I'm a big fan of wine, especially reds, and use to drink it pretty much exclusively. Haven't done that much since the move overseas and I'm ready to get back to it.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
Reply
#11

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

I know this is only a one-night update instead of a week but I figured I'd pop in anyways since I don't have a notebook handy yet to record things.

Went out and did some work in a restaurant bar-type setting to get out of the house (crashing at the mom's out of town tonight) and get a late dinner while getting things done. One glass of wine. Didn't want anything else and took an hour and a half to drink it rather than the hour as mentioned above. Since I was working while sipping and extremely tired the pace was natural and not forced or thought about in any way.

There was a girl who sat close to me for a drink when she got off work and was trying to chat me up. She knows me by name because we worked together a long time ago. She's pretty cute for a girl her age (28 - 30) considering the limited local talent, still has a good body, and is pretty bubbly and feminine. She looked pretty disappointed when I left so soon.

But I was too tired to pay her much mind, to be honest. lol This has been another major downfall to hard drinking for me - if I stay up too late or party too many days in a row, I just can't conjure the energy or motivation to try for something that presents itself to me when I'm hungover.

Pretty lame, actually. Considered a second glass to stick around and get a number but really was just too tired to deal with it. In any event, she works there and I'll see her again.

This thread might actually turn more into a gaming on little or no alcohol thread once I regain my energy and drive; if so, hopefully it gets more interesting for anyone bothering to read it. My sober pimping skills are pretty rusty so it should be entertaining.

Meanwhile, I think I'll sleep in tomorrow.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
Reply
#12

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

this shit hits home... could easily be me and some people i know.

what's your workout regime like ? i used to have what in my mind i thought to be a drinking problem. downing a bottle of wine with dinner after work. once i got committed to strength training, the drinking stopped.

your body might be used to the feeling of being relaxed and the endorphins that alcohol provides. if you can replace that with fitness you will be in a good spot.

also i'm at a point business wise were I can't afford to be fucking up the next day because of a hangover. everything in business matters. you need to have that attitude when it comes to your online shit. nothing lasts forever and you can easily get caught slipping, what happens if your business model changes ? piss off the wrong customer ?

write down five reasons related to money how you can f--k up because of your drinking.

best of luck man.
Reply
#13

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

What I do when I want to cut down on my drinking is to make it somewhat unpalatable or otherwise impossible to get drunk.

Wine coolers it is.

Very good topic. I can see myself going down this road (alcoholics on both sides, etc), so I'll be taking notes.
Reply
#14

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

Start meditating. Develops the 'executive function' in your mind which identifies and chooses whether or not to be altered by incoming emotions. Expect to start realizing concrete results after maybe a month of daily practice. Can start here: http://code.reddit.com/wiki/help/faqs/meditation
Reply
#15

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

I've been in a similar situation like you, and also had the same plan. I would take frequent drinking holidays, stopping for a week, a month, four months. But then I'd wind up on a binge again. I'd try to control my drinking by allowing a set amount after 7pm only. But then I'd declare some days a party day, and then I'd be on a long bender again.

It got pretty bad at times. Being weak in the knees in the morning if I hadn't had a drink. Then some stomach problems caught up with me, and my decision was made for me. I could no longer drink without feeling very sick.

It wasn't that difficult, once the switch was made. No more bars or nightclubs though, because for me that's associated with a specific flavor of fun, and that's the start of the slippery slope.

I heard you notice that you have strong will power - but just not after a certain number of drinks. Maybe we have alternate personalities that come out? I know I did, and for a while I missed my alternate. It's a little like murder to him, not drinking. Poor guy.

But after three years sober, I don't much miss him anymore.

Maybe really that's a big part of what not getting hammered is about - a kind of suicide pact with a part of ourselves we really appreciate and don't want to see go.

I'd have kept my inner drunk around if I could have. But he would have killed me.

I already had a few mini strokes and have heart disease and some serious cognitive deficits - especially memory problems now. And serious stomach problems. And my left eye is partially blind as a result of a mini stroke. All because of the year after year of "just one more". At the time I always think "well, why not". It's only when you get to the stage where you are that notice why. And then it can get worse, health wise. Sooner or later it's something - it's not sustainable.

But...

You are right that some people are able to make moderation work.

I gave it a serious effort for about two years, and didn't make much overall progress. The drinking holidays were pretty easy. I don't have any real insights about what would draw me back into heavy drinking - I suppose brain chemistry and addictions are involved.

Oh - that reminds me - I hear people use low dose naltrexone as a way that helps. I use that myself, to this day.

Anyway, none of this is meant as advice. Just thought I throw out my history, and let it be known what my solution was. It was to get too sick to be able to drink anymore at all. Worked for me.
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#16

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

Damn man, sounds like that shit went down the night we were hanging out, I'm glad I got out of there before things took a turn for the worst.

It took me a while to read through this post, I got to give you props for being real and confronting your demons. The first step to making any kind of change is admitting you have a problem, and being willing to confront it head on, with the dedication to change. So many people are caught in this cycle of denial, deep down inside they know they have a problem, but keep "sweeping it under the rug" so to speak, and lying to themselves about what's really the truth.

You basically, stated all the things you have to do to change, you're a smart dude, so you already know the answers, the question is are you going to have the self-control and disciple to actualize them. Self discipline and self control can be two very tough things to master, personally I kind of take pride in having self control, when my bros are coaxing me and egging me on to do shots with them at 1 am, I respectfully decline. In my mind I have the strength to say no and not give in, whether it be to the peer pressure, the desire to get more fucked up and keep partying, or whatever.

There are major downsides with the lifestyle of drinking, partying, and fighting. A lot of us are living in the moment, but we don't always think ahead to the future or what's just a little further down the road. Beyond Borders, you said it yourself, you're lucky that you haven't gotten locked up in jail, or been on the unfortunate end of a major beat down. There are no guarantees in life, you could beat a guy up so bad he ends up in a coma, the cops catch you, now your facing a year in jail and got to pay $50,000 in medical bills. Or, you beat the shit out of a guy, he comes back an hour later with a gun, shoots you in the head, and your life is over.

Now, I'm not trying to sound like a scolding parent here, you already know all this. As far as I'm concerned you don't have anything to prove, so there is no point in getting into these brawls. It all comes back to self control and discipline, don't down 8-10 drinks in a night and get so drunk that you are operating sheerly off of instincts and emotions, without using your logical mind. Alcohol does that to people, it numbs are brains and makes us act off emotion, and sometimes in the wrong setting, your emotions might take you to a primal level, where you act off anger, and respond with violence.

I've seen you in action and I can vouch for your game, but I can see how you cock block yourself when you get shit faced. The only women that will respond well to a guy who's completely shit faced are chicks who are that drunk themselves. You lose a lot of your smoothness and polish when you're that drunk, and even if you do pull, you might get whiskey dick and can't perform, I know how it is, been there more times myself than I'd like.

Personally, I keep it to 3 drinks a night when I go out, maybe 4 at the max. I like to start off with a mixed drink, to get that liquor in my blood to start, loosen up, but from then on out I drink light beer like Corona, Stella Artois, or Modelo, to try to maintain my buzz without getting too fucked up. I'd say if you did something similar it would be to your benefit, just learn to sip the drinks slowly, and maybe drink a glass of water in between drinks, so you got something in your hand to sip on. Just say no and decline if your boys are hyping you up to take multiple shots with them, especially if it's the end of the night. Sometimes rules are meant to be broken, so I'd never advocating against taking a shot with a cute honey at the end of the night, if it looks like you're on the fast track to taking her home, otherwise you always got to monitor your cost to benefit ratio.

Any how, I just wanted to give you some feedback as a bro. I really hope the best for you man, and I know you got a lot of potential to actualize all of your goals. You could be a beast if you hit the gym on the regular 3 X a week on starting strength, and tighten up your diet and drinking habits. You've seen me, I'm pretty in shape, but I wasn't blessed with the natural genetic frame to get huge. I think you may very well have the right genetics, so take it as a blessing and put in the work to maximize your potential.

Also, I think I should mention with your drinking, why don't you just cut out drinking all together on the nights that you are not going out to party and meet chicks. I know the temptation is there and if you're chilling with the homies they will be drinking, but I don't have a drop of alcohol the days/nights that I'm not going out. You know I'm a stoner, so I'm always puffing on herbs, but I feel like alcohol is much more detrimental to ones health, it only makes you fat, numbs your brain, and lowers your bodies ability to function it's best, by weakening your immune system, etc.
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#17

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

Quote: (10-30-2012 03:53 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

Damn man, sounds like that shit went down the night we were hanging out, I'm glad I got out of there before things took a turn for the worst.

Yep, that was the night.

Thanks a lot for popping in here and making a comment, Man. Since we've met a couple times and you're more than just an anonymous name on the net, I highly respect and value your feedback.

Quote: (10-30-2012 03:53 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

Self discipline and self control can be two very tough things to master, personally I kind of take pride in having self control, when my bros are coaxing me and egging me on to do shots with them at 1 am, I respectfully decline. In my mind I have the strength to say no and not give in, whether it be to the peer pressure, the desire to get more fucked up and keep partying, or whatever.

I used to to do the same exact thing and over the recent years - particularly after being away from those people for so long - just stopped. For me it's just a matter of getting back to that mindset again.

One of my favorite Tony Robbins quotes is "Decision is the father of action." This has always rung true for me. If I don't make a conscious choice beforehand to make those kinds of decisions in my life, it's easy to get carried away. When I've predetermined my decisions, however, self control becomes easy for me.

Quote: (10-30-2012 03:53 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

Also, I think I should mention with your drinking, why don't you just cut out drinking all together on the nights that you are not going out to party and meet chicks. I know the temptation is there and if you're chilling with the homies they will be drinking, but I don't have a drop of alcohol the days/nights that I'm not going out.

For sure - I have absolutely no problem with this and do it on the regular. If I'm sitting at home I rarely ever drink at all, and when I do, it's a glass of wine with dinner. It's the social part of drinking that usually gets me initially rolling.

This is one of the main reasons I feel like it's in my power to control. It's not like I'm some full-blown drunk who can't put the bottle down. I just tend to go out a lot and when I don't watch my step get carried away - past that certain brink it's pretty downhill, especially if something dramatic occurrs.

"7 Weeks to Safe Social Drinking" emphasizes a lot on monitoring your drinks and stopping before your blood alcohol content (BAC) reaches a particular level - essentially it's the level where your irrational brain takes over.

I honestly feel that's the sweet spot for me and the key to changing this behavior.

Quote: (10-30-2012 03:53 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

You know I'm a stoner, so I'm always puffing on herbs, but I feel like alcohol is much more detrimental to ones health, it only makes you fat, numbs your brain, and lowers your bodies ability to function it's best, by weakening your immune system, etc.

I absolutely agree with your thoughts on herb versus alochol. I wouldn't mind dabbling in it a little bit more but to be honest it's never sat well with me. I either get far too sluggish and/or paranoid.

Maybe just the right strain - one that gives a more "up" kind of high so I could still socialize and doesn't make me so over-analytical to be paranoid would hit the spot.

Maybe the OG has a suggestion?

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
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#18

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

Just went out and bought some zinc and some Bragg's ACV. Given the effects a lot of people are feeling on these, I figure it's a good step towards better health and will give me some additional motivation, energy, and drive for healthier lifestyle habits.

I'm going to start hitting the weights again too - went into the gym to talk about memberships today. Either that or convict conditioning.

Need to give the soreness in my hand a couple days to dissapate at least though.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
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#19

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

Quote: (10-30-2012 05:00 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

I absolutely agree with your thoughts on herb versus alochol. I wouldn't mind dabbling in it a little bit more but to be honest it's never sat well with me. I either get far too sluggish and/or paranoid.

Maybe just the right strain - one that gives a more "up" kind of high so I could still socialize and doesn't make me so over-analytical to be paranoid would hit the spot.

Maybe the OG has a suggestion?


If you can find it I highly recommend the "Mendo Purps" it has a few sister strains that are very close as well, "blackberry" and "night shade", these are all tasty purples with a really "up" sativa effect, that is clear headed, euphoric, and will allow you to function and be social.

These aren't the most common, but if you can get your hands on some I'd recommend it. Others that maybe worth a try are blue dream and super silver haze. Avoid anything that's heavy indica like kush.
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#20

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

Quote: (10-30-2012 05:58 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

Quote: (10-30-2012 05:00 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

I absolutely agree with your thoughts on herb versus alochol. I wouldn't mind dabbling in it a little bit more but to be honest it's never sat well with me. I either get far too sluggish and/or paranoid.

Maybe just the right strain - one that gives a more "up" kind of high so I could still socialize and doesn't make me so over-analytical to be paranoid would hit the spot.

Maybe the OG has a suggestion?


If you can find it I highly recommend the "Mendo Purps" it has a few sister strains that are very close as well, "blackberry" and "night shade", these are all tasty purples with a really "up" sativa effect, that is clear headed, euphoric, and will allow you to function and be social.

These aren't the most common, but if you can get your hands on some I'd recommend it. Others that maybe worth a try are blue dream and super silver haze. Avoid anything that's heavy indica like kush.

Certainly no shortage of blue dream around these parts.

I'll look into the mendo.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
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#21

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

Something that really helped me curb my drinking was watching the videos that John Cheese from Cracked.com made about his decision to stop drinking. He had his 3 year anniversary today, 10/30/12:






I would suggest reading the thread he started encouraging others to share their stories and struggles with alcohol. The "Pointless Waste of Time - Beer Off" PWOT Beer Off:

http://www.cracked.com/forums/topic/5719...version...

And also to start with the very first video he made and work your way though the several months and years he documented about his decision to quit:






Of all these things, I think reading through the thread is probably the most helpful. I had several epiphanies about the nature of my own addiction while perusing the forum.

Good luck.
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#22

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

Quote: (10-29-2012 09:46 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

3) I think I can work with moderation - I have a lot of self-control when I choose to practice it.

That is the first lie alcoholics tell to themselves. "I can stop drinking anytime I want"

Well, I you have so much self control "when you choose to practice it", then choose to practice it by not drinking. Choose to practice it by not hurting yourself or other people.

You also say that you dont need to stop drinking and that you dont want to be "that guy"... so, how has THAT been working out for you so far?

Do whatever you want man. If you want to get piss-drunk every night and beat people up everytime, then do so. Just dont lie to yourself.
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#23

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

I mostly get drunk out of boredom. If things are flowing well at a venue and I'm talking to girls I naturally moderate. I'm ADHD and my head spins, and being at a drinking establishment with nothing going on is a killer. I try not to arrive to early so things are in swing when I arrive.

Mixed drinks are a killer too. If it tastes like something you would drink fast you will. Anything hard on the rocks is harder to get down. That "bite" in each sip reminds me I'm drinking alcohol and I tend to sip it slower.

Don't buy rounds. That means you are drinking at the pace of the fastest person in the group. It's bad mojo. Buy your own at your pace.

Make yourself approach at least one girl before buying another drink. If drinking is too much of an issue, drop night game altogether and day game. Use the late evenings to do your online. Adjust schedule.

If you have any questions or want to PM me let me know. We have a lot of similarities minus the extreme anger issues.
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#24

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

Hey man one of my best friends was drinking ALOT. He wasnt getting into fights but he would get so drunk that he would lose his phones, fall all over the place and hurt himself, rip his clothes and whatnot. Sometimes he would wake up in another city and have no idea how he got there. He also banged alot of bitches but often times was so drunk he couldnt get it up anymore.

Well bottom line he died this year in a terrible accident and without alcohol he would still be alive. This was one of the smartest kids I know and he was in the process of starting a restaurant and making shitloads of cash.

So I hope you can find a way to get off the sauce. Alcohol is a terrible drug and brings nothing but trouble IMO. I havent stopped drinking but I never get drunk so I dont really have a problem with alcohol like that. Have you tried smoking some weed to chill out? If you puff some nice sativa it will not make you all lazy and unmotivated you can still go out and enjoy yourself and be social.
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#25

My Personal Journey to Becoming a Moderate Social Drinker

almost four years here with not one drink.

took 20 years of lots of bullshit to get me to the point where it was time to quit.

you already know that you can't drink in moderation for long periods of time.

just ask yourself what is so fucking important about having to drink that you'll through all this headache, discipline, journaling, reading, etc just so you can keep on drinking... what is it?

you've had enough negative consequences

just admit you can't do it and quit

why is it so important to drink...thats the question you can't answer without saying that you need it / love it / are addicted to it

believe me, there is nothing you can do drunk that you can't do better sober

i've run game in bars sober, i've dated tons of chicks without drinking...you can do it

really, drinking is not all that awesome

one thing i noticed after i quit drinking is that no one around me was as drunk as i thought they were back when i was drinking
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