[Ethiopian_Volt]

Hey guys,
I just recently joined the forum/community and wanted to share with you this theory that's been running through my mind the past few months.

Should we (men) dumb ourselves down in order to game chicks ? It just seems like chicks are incapable of intelligent conversation; even the intelligent ones would rather gossip.

I graduated college around 7 months ago and i remember back then at every social gathering me and my homeboys' conversations transcended various topics from Sex to Sports, Politics to Human behavior , Video games to Cars and Science to mercilessly ripping on each other.

Listening to the conversations of the girls however ... it always was hours and hours of gossip. Who did what , with whom , who they did and did not like and why, who's invited to what .... and the obvious complaining about men.

So to all of you PUA's and Pros out there ; when you talk to women do you usually drag yourself down to their level to mimic their behavior ? Is it possible ? Does it help ? Or is it just the age group i was in ? Or maybe the location (I went to Colorado school of Mines which is an Engineering School so the girls do have the IQ). Any input is appreciated.

PS: Just ordered Bang ! Can't wait for it to arrive, although i'll be up in the rigs in Northern Alaska by then.

Cheers

[JohnKreese]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that the women attending Colorado School of the Mines probably aren't the biggest gossip queens...

[WestCoast]

I am going to disclose that I run "happy dance floor guy game" so my "banter" usually goes as follows:

1. Bar Game. Girls enjoy gossiping/people watching so i'll play games with them like "Hey who here do you think has the best apartment blah blah blah? She'll start to point people out. Then i'll come back with hmm i don't think you should choose him you should choose a guy who is most likely to lie... blah blah.. Do this back and forth choose people and bet a drink or something.
2. Dance Floor Game. I use a lot less banter here because i'm a very good dancer (I dance Cumbia style, swing and some hiphop). Here's more just gelling with the beat so you don't really dumb down anything its all straight raw animalistic game.
3. School Game. When i met girls at the library we would talk about bullshit from events coming up to parties. My suggestion for you because you are likely more cognitively smart is to act absolutely retarded if you are opening a girl for the first time. What I mean by this is my "go to line" was .... Excuse Me What Day is it? She'll giggle and want to "educate you" then you start talking again about random stuff around you.

"Who did what , with whom , who they did and did not like and why, who's invited to what .... "

This is pretty spot on and great observation. Let's deconstruct "gossip":

Gossip is what is presently hip, whats the latest fad, what is the coolest new event what is the next.... blah blah. This is not the future this is all present tense so lets traverse this into "game"

Bar. Hey why do you think these guys bought XYZ hanging right here (point right in front of you at a wall).
Do you think those 2 decided to match when they came out tonight? Point at couple
Hey you think that guy is marriage material, point at some random guy who is clearly a loser hands in pockets sweating it out drinking out of a straw

Club. Again this is less applicable, club game from my skillset is always "a little less conversation a little more action". Once girls know you're the best dancer within a 5 mile radius they'll practically open you.

So you're on the right track from the above commentary i'd say two things.

1. There is no such thing as a "PUA". There is just being locked in, you get into a "state". When you get good people will say things along the lines of I felt like there was a hurricane starting in there and the place just got "crazy".
2. I'd avoid the word mimic girls behavior, its more like you "pull her into your world". Again women live in the present so this is why you'll see various types of game "aggressive grab girl game, smooth dance game, good looking dude game, hipster game... the entire thing goes on" figure out who you are. You have a "world" and everyone else is just bystanders and will be dragged into that world. The person who feels most "uncomfortable" has the least "game" out of everyone.

[Homework]

Yo man. Dumbing-yourself-down game is pretty gold, especially because dumber dudes are often aloof as fuck. And we all know that being aloof signals options, and having options is high-value. Playing dumb gives you all the benefits of this without the drawbacks of actually being stupid. The better you get at playing dumb, the more you'll realize it's like being a wolf in sheep's clothing.

A protip for the younger players: in college and high-school, I'd always sit next to a pretty-but-smart girl and pretend to be dirt stupid and just straight up ask them for help. This works best if you're in good shape and dress well. Why this works is because all social interactions are a value exchange. A girl is used to having betas and chumps help her with shit in hopes of getting into her panties, so flip the script on her and it'll pretty much rev her hamster up to 8000 rpm.

Girls aren't good at figuring out that pesky cause and effect thing, so if she's helping you, she'll ask herself why. She figures it must be because she's getting something from it. Her hamster will start to whir, twist and flail about and her furry little hind-brain amigo will eventually come to the conclusion that she's helping you because you're a cool, smooth dude who just can't figure out those damn biology questions because you're too busy being you (a cool, smooth dude).

There's some interesting psychology behind this, too. Consider Ben Franklin's old wisdom that it's easy to make a friend if you ask them for a favor.

The best part is that when I'd crush the exam, she'd ask what I got and I'd just brush it off with "I'm just good at those kinda things, I guess" with a sly grin and heavy eye contact. Come to think of it, that was the 30th law of power.

[HiFlo]

Funny story:

During 4th of July, I approached 2 cute girls hanging, opened them & rambled/ran a couple routines. After awhile I asked, "how do you know each other?" Turns out the younger one just graduated college, but the older one was still in college.

I asked how that happened and the younger recent-graduate replied with something, "oh I'm just naturally smart."

I said, "cool, I was always the type who never had to study more than 5 minutes to get As too."

Instant Attraction Death was Instant.

Within 1 minute they said, "we gotta go to the bathroom."

[Veloce]

There have been several threads on this topic. I can't remember who, but someone nailed it when identifying certain types of intelligence.

With girls, the only thing that matters is social intelligence. Any other type of smarts are liable to hurt your game.

[XXL]

(07-06-2012 09:13 PM)Ethiopian_Volt Wrote:  

So to all of you PUA's and Pros out there ; when you talk to women do you usually drag yourself down to their level to mimic their behavior ? Is it possible ? Does it help ? Or is it just the age group i was in ? Or maybe the location (I went to Colorado school of Mines which is an Engineering School so the girls do have the IQ). Any input is appreciated.

typical convo..
when i talk, i talk complete shit at least at first:
hello, oh hi how are you beautiful girl? oh no we're complete strangers we can't talk to each other.. yeah i just came back from the mountains i met a lot of squirrels there.. they're very aloof.. oh you move like love to dance, but can you really?.. seems ok, you can teach me moves, but no no maybe now, maybe later when you'll be more warmed up, it'll be more romantic.. yes i'm shy i like to cuddle and make romantic poetic love.. that's why i've been hurt so much and feel emotionally damaged right now.. i'm stupid even talking to you.. blablabla"


influencing her emotions is the goal of convo..
so i just talk shit about whatever that pops up in my head that will add up to the vibe and arouse her emotionally and not to overdo it with only good or only bad emotions cause that's when it loses its charm. that's the key. nice guys overdo it with nice things, assholes overdo it with bad things, they all get predictable and boring with time and become irrelevant competition sooner or later. the goal is to be unpredictable and have wide range of emotions at you disposal so that girls knows that they will get aroused more if they stay with you. next thing you know is they stick with you like glue, comply with you and that's how you get afterparties, dates, snl.


how to stimulate..
if you want to be technical about it, view conversation as contant positive and negative stimulus where as you speaking you constantly spike her emotions, like pinching her, things you say and your delivery stimulate her cause one person's reaction is other person's stimulus. so to break it down:
- oh hi how are you beautiful girl? [comliment - positive pinch, she's surprised and confused so also negative pinch]
- oh we're complete strangers we can't talk to each other [push - negative pinch]
- yeah i just came back from the mountains i met a lot of squirrels there [absurd, funny - positive pinch]
- oh you move like love to dance [compliment - positive pinch]
- but can you really? [challenge - negative pinch]
- it'll be more romantic [sweet statement - positive pinch]
etc...

so it becomes like a sine wave. the specific content is plays minor role, no need to dumb down or adapt to her with the things to say. the important things is the positive/negative influence of your convo overall. there's no difference between we're complete strangers we can't talk to each other and but can you dance really?. none of these lines is better or worse. but both arouse her negatively. so both are good. which illustrates my point.


in case of emergency..
in doubt, it you happen to run out of things to say or convo gets stale/boring/flat for some reason, talk about what you love and what you hate in general. it fits perfectly that positive/negative arousal goal cause girls will react to your opinions and you're back on the right path.

[Greek kamaki]

Examples of dumbing down.Telling the same thing:
1.To German woman:I have noticed German women are very elegant.They do not dress so provocatively and want people to take them seriously.
2.To polish woman:I have noticed German women are different from polish ones.They seldom wear feminine dresses they prefer trousers and Wehrmacht boots.
3.To Ukrainian girl:German girls are really fat.Very ugly.
4.To Russian girl:German women are very powerful.Masculine creatures they have dominant presence.
5.To Serbian girl:Why are you lacking the biceps of German women?I guess you lose all Bradefers against Serbian guys.
6.To Greek woman:After staying in Germany for two weeks I could really now work non stop.No distractions at all.My erection had hit bottom.

[Vitriol]

The average bar or club skank who is a few IQ points above retarded is going to have no idea what the hell is going on if you start talking about reading Plato in the original Ancient Greek.

Women are actively turned off by displays of intelligence. Think about it, were all the chess team dorks in your high school pulling tons of ass?

From my experience, you have to never take a conversation with a woman too seriously (which helps set the tone) and keep it at high school level depth (not getting too serious or deep about any topic or dropping esoteric knowledge).

[Greek kamaki]

Sometimes I have talked with women in ancient Greek just for fun.They get an expression of total confusion because some words sound the same with new Greek.
It is also funny to talk in new Greek and from time to time throw in a very ancient word for a very common meaning.Intelligent women get the humour but the rest gets confused.
In Greek if you want to appear badass you use lots of turkish words,if you want to show off as artistic you use lots of italian words and if you want to play the village guy you use slavic origin words.If you want to appear intellectual you use ancient Greek words and if you want to appear fan of technology you use many English words.

[kbell]

This thread is fantastic. Its a huge hang up of mine, since I tend to reveal to much book intelligence and not enough social intelligence. Hopefully this thread will grow a lot more and maybe even be stickied.

http://www.theuniversityofman.com/blog/d...wound.html

This article seems related since it falls under gossip, but you do slip in a some red pill wisdom. However its tempered with some blue pill bull shit, which causes hamster malfunction. Heartiste also mentioned some skillfull displays of viciousness in gossip as well recently. I have noticed that gossip has a type of viciousness in it, that women seem to enjoy. But they won't admit it if you ask them about it.

[Greek kamaki]

For example I was talking about euro football with a polish girl recently.I explained her the systems,the rules,how trainers think and how teams played and she showed interest.Before that she hardly knew what was going on during match.Then she asked me to show faces of football players to see who were the handsome ones.When I talked to her about the footballers relationships she showed way more interest and wanted to see photos of their girlfriends.
So during match a lot of girls concentrate on how good a player looks while most men concentrate on game.

[Giovonny]

I don't call it "dumbing down", I call it "raising awareness".

It's actually a smart thing to do if you wanna get laid.

[Kitsune]

I can't believe people are actually saying to dumb yourselves down because intelligence turns girls off. I would elaborate, but I just have no idea why someone would think it was a good idea to do such a thing.

[Ethiopian_Volt]

(07-07-2012 01:24 PM)Kitsune Wrote:  

I can't believe people are actually saying to dumb yourselves down because intelligence turns girls off. I would elaborate, but I just have no idea why someone would think it was a good idea to do such a thing.

I'd really like to hear your perspective. That's what this forum is for no ? With the exception of some East Coast Career women or Liberal, Artsy , Save the World , Peace and Kumbaya chicks ... i have met very few who enjoy intelligent conversation.

The funny part is ... when asked about the qualities they value in a man , " Intelligent" or " Smart" is always somewhere near the top of the list.

I always get more IOI's when i resort to what I'd call " Child Mode ". Meaning when i talk to girls like they are my 12 year old sister.

My only problem is i can only pull this off when I am drunk. Sober, I resort back to my demilitarized zone of Smarts.
Please explain to me how i can use my Booksmarts, General knowledge and worldliness to my advantage.

@ Westcoast, HiFlo, Homework, XXL, Vitriol , Kbell & others ... Appreciate your feedback !

Cheers

[MrXY]

(07-07-2012 01:24 PM)Kitsune Wrote:  

I can't believe people are actually saying to dumb yourselves down because intelligence turns girls off. I would elaborate, but I just have no idea why someone would think it was a good idea to do such a thing.

Well, in my experience displays of high intelligence do turn girls off, even many of the ones who aren't stupid.

The only exceptions are the types of girls mentioned by Ethiopian Volt-they sometimes respond positively

I find I do best when I act as if my IQ is 30 points lower than it actually is, 40 points lower if the girl is really dumb.

Female sexual attraction arises from a very primitive area of the brain and it is stimulated by dominance displays not intelligence displays

[Tigre]

I wouldn't actually call it dumbing down. But as a general rule, yeah.

Do: Engage emotions. Add color to your descriptions. Always relate the topic back to her as an individual. Solicit her personal opinion about things.

Don't: Be analytical. Being analytical is about looking at something in the abstract, stripping it down to its most essential. Your average chick is probably going to find that boring.

The trick is redefine what intelligence is to you. You're probably working with a very narrow definition.

Exploit other kinds of intelligence. A guy like Neil Strauss read books about spirituality, psychology and other interesting topics ("chick crack"). He knew how to apply all those book smarts into real world conversations centered around the girl he was talking to.

If he had got into a theoretical discussion on who has the best chance of winning the Eastern Conference next year, female interest would be harder to come by.

Travel is another achievement type thing you can mention. Statements like "after I spent a semester in Mexico, it made me rethink all my beliefs about X" are probably net-positive, as long as you don't overdo it.

[Timoteo]

I've found that women simply don't like dealing with weighty subjects. No matter how intelligent a woman is, or highly educated, when they get together, they discuss nonsense. Either online or in person, I've found it difficult to really engage in conversation with a woman about anything of substance. At most, you can get them to talk about some kind of personal issue, which may lead to a serious conversation, but of course it's something about THEM.

[Greek kamaki]

You can tough serious issues while talking with women but you always have to deduct some weight of them to make them appear as light as possible.It is the way of ''talking to the ladies''.

[XXL]

(07-07-2012 01:24 PM)Kitsune Wrote:  

I can't believe people are actually saying to dumb yourselves down because intelligence turns girls off. I would elaborate, but I just have no idea why someone would think it was a good idea to do such a thing.

i fully agree. but here's the kicker.. in order to agree that dumbing down adapting the content to her is unnecessary, you have to know that it's all about "how you say it", that you can make boring stuff interesting, that you can talk about politics and make it cool, but that requires some imagination and creativity. that mystery video i posted was brilliant example how to talk about the most nerdy stuff ever. for anybody who has problems with that i really recommend watching it over and over again to see how he

(07-07-2012 01:45 PM)Ethiopian_Volt Wrote:  

The funny part is ... when asked about the qualities they value in a man , " Intelligent" or " Smart" is always somewhere near the top of the list.

yes because they want to meet interesting inteligent guy but they also want to relate to him somehow. guys obliterating girls with their smart ass topics/theories communicate with them in a 'one way street' fashion. so even though they might be cool guys to talk to, the only thing girls see is their inability to relate to them, read their emotions in real time to adjust a bit and present the same topic from different angle.


also important, girls don't reject guys because they live up to her standards. it's not like a girl thinks "oh he's not talking about my areas of interest like fashion/shoes/comedies/lady gaga/etc therefore i need to blow him out". a girl wants to get to know YOU, see what is interesting to YOU and get you to show her that in a cool way. if a guy talks only about what the girl likes how can she get to know him? she can't. therefore she will not trust him enough to be open to him making moves. simple. adapting so hard to her is kiss of death.

"intelligent" convo is ok as long you make it somehow relevant. this dumbing down issue is actually a problem of lack of attunement to a girls subjective reality aka social context. i see it from time to time when guys talk talk talk about their shit and can't see that girls don't really get it getting distracted so guys blindly persist with their shit to make them interested.. figuratively it's like putting cubicle into triangle hole. whereas the emiotional attuned guy start with cubicle, see it's not working and take the triangle block and use it. so the girls thinks "ok this gy is actually paying attention to me and can relate to my personality".

does that sound helpful?

[Architekt]

Being socially intelligent is different to just knowing a bunch of stuff about something.

It's all about presentation when it comes to talking with women. Personally, I don't broach higher level topics so much, but I spent a lot of time talking and arguing with morons back in the day, so I've had a bit of experience explaining complicated things in a way that people unfamiliar with a topic can understand. If you can explain something in a way that gets the bulk of the important information out, whilst avoiding the more in depth stuff that is likely far more complex and probably irrelevant, you can still talk about complicated subjects without overwhelming your target. In this fashion, you can also either lower or heighten your value as necessary, by either making her feel smarter (she will feel great, because she knows some stuff about a complicated topic - do this at your own risk, her ego could easily become overinflated), or demonstrating your own intelligence.

You don't need to dumb down a conversation if you're not overcomplicating the subject matter to begin with.

[Excelsior]

I've addressed this topic a couple of times before, if you're interested.

Long story short: Dating here is mentally a race to the bottom. More conventional, raw intellect (not of the social kind, which women actually love) has no place-if you are a young man having very consistent sexual success with young women (especially in North America), then you have either never had it, lost it, or gotten very good at hiding it during your interactions.
I would posit, based on observation, that most guys here are in the final category (smart guys who have simply learned the tools of the trade).

(07-07-2012 07:19 AM)Vitriol Wrote:  

From my experience, you have to never take a conversation with a woman too seriously (which helps set the tone) and keep it at high school level depth (not getting too serious or deep about any topic or dropping esoteric knowledge).

This is the reason more traditionally academic/intellectual men often struggle with women, especially in youth. They lack the high level of social intelligence that women love, and are very prone to expressing the more academic forms of intellect women hate. Vitriol has given very sound advice here (completely accurate), but this is an extremely difficult thing for an intellectually inclined guy to do. For many, alcohol is a virtual requirement in order to follow this advice as it is the only thing that will get them to blunt their tendency towards the attraction-killing intellectual conversations/thought processes they tend to thrive on. That, as I'm sure we can see, is an unfortunate reality of things, but it is the reality.

[WestIndianArchie]

Increase your social and emotional intelligence to the same point as your real intelligence, and you'll learn to be strategic with your brain power.

Understand the basics of female psychology

Pretty girls want to feel smart.
Smart girls want to feel pretty.

But if you're dead set on talking to a chick on the "logical and rational" level, move to DC. You'll have more discussions, debates, and arguments about policy than you've ever wanted to you in your life.

WIA

[deathtofatties]

Nope, don't. Women actually like intelligent men, you just have to sell it the right way. Talk to them romantically, quote oscar wilde, etc...

[Giovonny]

(07-08-2012 07:29 AM)Architekt Wrote:  

Being socially intelligent is different to just knowing a bunch of stuff about something.

It's all about presentation when it comes to talking with women.

I like this.

I know smart guys who are lazy. I know smart guys with bad social skills. I know smart guys who are poor. I know smart guys on jail. I know smart guys who can't get laid.

By itself, being smart doesn't really mean shit.

what matters is your ability to put those smarts into action and get results. This requires other skills like ambition, work ethic, dedication, people skills, self control, etc.

No one is gonna fuck you just because you have a high IQ. You have to actually do something with that high IQ. Results are what matters. Some guys would be better off with a little less intelligence and a little more work ethic and street smarts. Being smart allows guys to rationalize everything. They probably rationalize why they are not getting any pussy.

I always say....If you can't get laid, how smart are you???