[Rurik]

I've tried a fair amount of day game in the US. It's basically a waste of time. But I think night game is a waste of time in the US too, along with online game.

I don't even know if "game" is what gets normal dudes laid in the US, or if it's just sheer number of approaches.

[HiFlo]

(07-05-2012 01:39 PM)Juan Antonio Wrote:  

Let's look at some more numbers.

Commercial day game PUA Tom Torero (daygame.com) revealed he had 41 lays from 482 numbers in 2011.

Assuming he gets numbers from 1 in 3 approaches, that's ~ 41 lays / 1500 approaches or 1 lay per 37 approaches. And we don't know whether all these lays were exclusively from day game, so the ratio could be closer to 1 lay per 50 approaches.

Janka claims an 11% number to bang conversion ratio. Again, assuming he gets a number from 1 in 3 approaches, that's about 1 lay per 30 approaches.

What would the equivalent ratio be with night game? Would an average guy need to approach 30 girls in a bar or club (over the course of several nights) to find 1 girl to go home with him?

Is night game more efficient than day game?

yah man, unless you're the QB in your college football team or your a rockstar musician, that's how it is. status ups that conversion.

the rest of us are just pigs in the playpen.

[Juan Antonio]

(07-05-2012 08:17 PM)Rurik Wrote:  

I've tried a fair amount of day game in the US. It's basically a waste of time. But I think night game is a waste of time in the US too, along with online game.

I don't even know if "game" is what gets normal dudes laid in the US, or if it's just sheer number of approaches.

Is day game that much better outside the US? If so, why?

[Rurik]

"Game" in general tends to better outside of the US and other anglosphere countries. Just go to the travel section and see which geographic areas get the most interest.

[Samseau]

(07-05-2012 01:39 PM)Juan Antonio Wrote:  

What would the equivalent ratio be with night game? Would an average guy need to approach 30 girls in a bar or club (over the course of several nights) to find 1 girl to go home with him?

Is night game more efficient than day game?

Yeah man, that's why I prefer night game. Day game you still need to go through serious volume of women to find some bangs, but nighttime provides you with that volume all in one centralized location.

[dk902]

(07-05-2012 09:32 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(07-05-2012 01:39 PM)Juan Antonio Wrote:  

What would the equivalent ratio be with night game? Would an average guy need to approach 30 girls in a bar or club (over the course of several nights) to find 1 girl to go home with him?

Is night game more efficient than day game?

Yeah man, that's why I prefer night game. Day game you still need to go through serious volume of women to find some bangs, but nighttime provides you with that volume all in one centralized location.

This is true. However you can find niches in day game that give you exponentially more bangs.

Mine for example is hanging in areas where there are foreign women, specifically Spanish or Italian, because I spoke both languages and very well. So the results are usually very positive when the girl finds out I'm not a native speaker.

This can apply to fashion, wine, just about anything. Target market. Still it is a volume approach.

[Vitriol]

Reading this thread makes me feel like I'll be better off in the long run if I just spend the next few years saving money, learning languages, and occasionally banging a pro when I need to, rather than investing time and money running game on American women. Considering they're not suitable for anything more than a pump and dump it's pretty much the same deal.

Anyone have suggestions for destinations where I'll be able to see a very sharp contrast considering I haven't spent too much time outside of the USA yet?

[Thug Muffin]

(07-05-2012 09:32 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

but nighttime provides you with that volume all in one centralized location.

I'm not sure where you live but here in San Diego I've found this to be the opposite. In an hour while out doing daygame I can find at least 5 girls by themselves that I think are very attractive. At night it's almost impossible to find attractive girls by themselves. In the day I don't run into bitchy girls, have to deal with friends, etc.

I would say about 80-85% of my approaches are received warmly. The other 15% they say thanks, talk for a few, and walk away. At the bare minimum these girls are happy to have a fun conversation with me. I like to think of myself as this shinning light in their otherwise dark, dreary, boring work day.

I am also a beginner at daygame as well. I took a bootcamp with Krauser in December and If I had to guess I'm at about 250 approaches. My first 200 I would say are complete crap. Very nervous and inside my head. These last 30 I've done things are starting to click though and I'm more in the moment and having fun conversations. I won't say I'm awesome but I feel like I am making progress.

For those interested I just started keeping stats 12 days ago for this 30 day challenge of mine (Talk to 3 girls during the day).
37 girls chatted up
Got the numbers from girl 1,25, and 37
1 date with girl 25

Overall I enjoy talking to girls during the day then in a bar/club since I find it to be much easier.

[Deb Auchery]

Why is it important for you to find a girl by herself? in case her girl friends cockblock you?.

[Thug Muffin]

(07-07-2012 01:08 PM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  

Why is it important for you to find a girl by herself? in case her girl friends cockblock you?.

Why don't I want to talk to attractive girls by themselves?

[Deb Auchery]

(07-07-2012 02:42 PM)Thug Muffin Wrote:  

(07-07-2012 01:08 PM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  

Why is it important for you to find a girl by herself? in case her girl friends cockblock you?.

Why don't I want to talk to attractive girls by themselves?

Everybody wants to talk to a hot girl by herself. But just wondering why you are targeting them, why no approach two girls by themselves, or more

[WestCoast]

The higher group number the harder it will be to pull in the USA. Groups of 2 are looking to fuck, one is extremely rare guarantee she is a slut, groups of three leave them be... kind of like poison oak.

Only talk to larger groups if it's really a last resort out here.

(07-07-2012 02:55 PM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  

(07-07-2012 02:42 PM)Thug Muffin Wrote:  

(07-07-2012 01:08 PM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  

Why is it important for you to find a girl by herself? in case her girl friends cockblock you?.

Why don't I want to talk to attractive girls by themselves?

Everybody wants to talk to a hot girl by herself. But just wondering why you are targeting them, why no approach two girls by themselves, or more

[Deb Auchery]

Ah, yes I agree pairs have sluts written all over them. Larger groups can go ok, but its harder for them to say "bye girls, I'm going home with this tool".

Saying that I will be targeting hen parties this summer in Ukraine. People come to my city to get married, everyday you will see brides floating around. Cleaned up last summer, girls from outta town, perfect.

But yeah anyway, its hard to find girls by themselves in Ukraine in clubs, if one friend wants the toilet, they will all go.

[Samseau]

(07-07-2012 08:52 AM)dk902 Wrote:  

(07-05-2012 09:32 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(07-05-2012 01:39 PM)Juan Antonio Wrote:  

What would the equivalent ratio be with night game? Would an average guy need to approach 30 girls in a bar or club (over the course of several nights) to find 1 girl to go home with him?

Is night game more efficient than day game?

Yeah man, that's why I prefer night game. Day game you still need to go through serious volume of women to find some bangs, but nighttime provides you with that volume all in one centralized location.

This is true. However you can find niches in day game that give you exponentially more bangs.

Mine for example is hanging in areas where there are foreign women, specifically Spanish or Italian, because I spoke both languages and very well. So the results are usually very positive when the girl finds out I'm not a native speaker.

This can apply to fashion, wine, just about anything. Target market. Still it is a volume approach.

you can (and should) find niches in all parts of the game, whether it be night, day, or online game.

[rudebwoy]

(07-05-2012 08:45 PM)Juan Antonio Wrote:  

(07-05-2012 08:17 PM)Rurik Wrote:  

I've tried a fair amount of day game in the US. It's basically a waste of time. But I think night game is a waste of time in the US too, along with online game.

I don't even know if "game" is what gets normal dudes laid in the US, or if it's just sheer number of approaches.

Is day game that much better outside the US? If so, why?

Most countries I have travelled, men don't approach women they do not know on the street. They meet women through there social interactions and circles.
The competition for (decent) women in America (Canada) is ridiculous in my opinion, there is not enough to go around hence you have fat chick's with standards.
Places like Europe seem to be the complete opposite or more normal, I imagine Asia and South America are better.

[rudebwoy]

(07-05-2012 08:45 PM)Juan Antonio Wrote:  

(07-05-2012 08:17 PM)Rurik Wrote:  

I've tried a fair amount of day game in the US. It's basically a waste of time. But I think night game is a waste of time in the US too, along with online game.

I don't even know if "game" is what gets normal dudes laid in the US, or if it's just sheer number of approaches.

Is day game that much better outside the US? If so, why?

Most countries I have travelled, men don't approach women they do not know on the street. They meet women through there social interactions and circles.
The competition for (decent) women in America (Canada) is ridiculous in my opinion, there is not enough to go around hence you have fat chick's with standards.
Places like Europe seem to be the complete opposite or more normal, I imagine Asia and South America are better.

[ronjon548]

Is Juan following Day Bang and GALNUC?

"Cold selling" is exactly the opposite of what you're supposed to be doing during the day.

I've been going to a lot of coffee shops lately to find targets. Sometimes I can't get a good spot so there are no approaches on the outing, but i always show up with another purpose in mind.

If you're only going to places you want to be, it shouldn't feel like a chore.

[deathtofatties]

This thread is long, but from what I've seen, the best thing to do is stay with the girl as long as you can, rather than quickly running off with a number. Go for the instant date.

[Veloce]

I don't agree with a lot of the assertions being posted on this thread. I won't deny the OPs experience but it's obvious to me something isn't right, either he's not internalizing Day Bang enough or, truth be told, he's just not attractive enough, or his speech is off, or he's not properly screening.

I've never done a proper breakdown of percentages or data sheets, but I'd say 40% of my day approaches end in dates. I screen like a mofo though. My days of approaching 20 girls a day are long gone, I just can't be bothered to care that much. The thing is, is I'm always ON. I'm always screening, even if I'm not out to pick up. I might look and smell like shit, maybe I just got off work and I'm at the liquor store buying a 6 pack, maybe I'm at Target getting socks. No matter where I am, if I'm out in public, I take twice as long to do everything just so I can explore every aisle, every store section, look under every nook and cranny to find a girl that passes the boner test. If I find said girl, I screen. I try to pull eye contact. I ramble out loud right next to her for a reaction. I check if she's glued to her phone or just seems bitchy or ADD (granted, I'm sure I've lost potential bangs from this) I only consider it an approach once I actually directly address her, "Hi, so blah blah blah blah..."

Roosh details the script pretty well. Thing is, is girls are like machines. You gotta follow the guidelines. I ONLY ask her personal questions once she starts asking me personal questions, and I make sure I ask her fewer. I'm very careful and strategic about dropping bait. In those 40% of successful approaches, I'd say about a quarter of them ask for my number. In best case scenario it happens around the 45 minute mark. It never happens faster than 15 minutes, and the date or bang is much less likely then.

[Excalibur]

Hey I am new here, but I spend a good part of last year day gaming.

I like the OP which brings up a lot of issues/myth about Day Game especially compare to night game.

Here are my general observations. Not that it applies to everyone.

- The girls are friendlier. 90% of girls respond well. You'll even get a lot of girls who have a genuine deep conversation with you and give you their number. That does not mean she'll have sex with you. You also have a much higher rate of girls engaged/married compare to night time.

- Yes. I meet much hotter girl during day game - international models etc. Girl's that get shuttle into fancy private parties, exclusive clubs that you will never be invited to. And sure, I have good conversations with them, but at the end of the day they go back to their producer/director/actor social circle. In my city, night time venue for average guys just have too many dudes because the sleazy promoters round up all the hot girls into the exclusive clubs.

- There are guys who get 75% meet-up during day game approaches, but they are giving skewed statistics. One of the guy I know who is very good with women. He just go about his daily activities, smile, and make eye contact with women. He only approaches the ones who smile back or give him eye contact. Sure, he meet up with 3 out of 4 girls he approaches, but that data is skewed. Also college guys who approach college campuses. You'll get a much high success rate just like surfers approaching beach girls.


What I plan to do......

I am gonna spend couple of more month to get my basic skill sets down by doing mass approaches (10/day on a weekend). At the same time structuring my lifestyle around where there are hot women. So I'll surf internet on a ipad in a cafe instead of home. Eat at a healthy place where there are hot girls instead of greasy Chinese restaurants. I'll also concentrate on more upscale places. I get very low yield from the ghetto hot chicks.

None of this is new knowledge. Roosh said you have to figure out where you get the most "Bang" for the bucks. Some places have a lot of hot chicks, but they are not in your demographics, so you'll get very low return rate.

Another final thought....

Don't equate the friendlier, prettier girls during day game with day game being easier. I think if you get into the game to get laid a lot, it's more efficient to do night game. I personal just want to have one quality girl a week that's why I am focused on day game.

[Enfant_Terrible]

Juan Antonio-

Kudos to you for doing what most guys wouldn't do on the street or while out and about. I can relate to many things you wrote in your OP. However, from reading your posts you seem to be hung up on the statistics and feeling like day gaming is a chore.

It'll feel more of a chore if you keep reminding yourself of cold-hard facts about your success/failure rate and treating it like a job. Rejections (from women who didn't think you mattered anyway) should be dust off your shoulders, they're nothing in the big picture of your life.

I would set the stats and outcome-thinking aside, less focus on number-related matters (getting numbers, doing x approaches/day, conversion rates, etc) and spend more quality, "in the present" time with the girls. From there, the numbers and the lays should follow.

How do you achieve "quality time"? That means screening girls who you feel a strong attraction to or passes your boner test first. Chatting with the girls you're attracted to shouldn't feel like work and really enjoying the moment with her (through long, friendly, elderly chat with juicy baits about you) that time almost gets lost.

Her conversation skills or personality sucks? Move on. Didn't have enough time and she's gone in a second? Well you can't have them all.

I agree with some of the guys here that you need to treat it less like a job and find a way to integrate it in your day to day activities.

Also, maybe we're assuming things...have you read Roosh's Day Bang? Some of the stuff we're trying to help you with is in that book.

When you spend time with a girl and at least enjoy her company while chatting (you are attracted to her, right?) it's a win-win for you no matter what the outcome. So even if she eventually rejected you, it's experience you can learn from and make whatever adjustments you need. Feel good about the fact that you approached a beautiful girl, knew where you stood with her, and did something that took balls.

Hopefully my ramble will help reduce your "emotional costs" and keep day banging.

[Juan Antonio]

(07-08-2012 11:42 AM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

I don't agree with a lot of the assertions being posted on this thread. I won't deny the OPs experience but it's obvious to me something isn't right, either he's not internalizing Day Bang enough or, truth be told, he's just not attractive enough, or his speech is off, or he's not properly screening.

I've never done a proper breakdown of percentages or data sheets, but I'd say 40% of my day approaches end in dates. I screen like a mofo though. My days of approaching 20 girls a day are long gone, I just can't be bothered to care that much. The thing is, is I'm always ON. I'm always screening, even if I'm not out to pick up. I might look and smell like shit, maybe I just got off work and I'm at the liquor store buying a 6 pack, maybe I'm at Target getting socks. No matter where I am, if I'm out in public, I take twice as long to do everything just so I can explore every aisle, every store section, look under every nook and cranny to find a girl that passes the boner test. If I find said girl, I screen. I try to pull eye contact. I ramble out loud right next to her for a reaction. I check if she's glued to her phone or just seems bitchy or ADD (granted, I'm sure I've lost potential bangs from this) I only consider it an approach once I actually directly address her, "Hi, so blah blah blah blah..."

Roosh details the script pretty well. Thing is, is girls are like machines. You gotta follow the guidelines. I ONLY ask her personal questions once she starts asking me personal questions, and I make sure I ask her fewer. I'm very careful and strategic about dropping bait. In those 40% of successful approaches, I'd say about a quarter of them ask for my number. In best case scenario it happens around the 45 minute mark. It never happens faster than 15 minutes, and the date or bang is much less likely then.

45 minutes in a single set seems excessive. What happens if the girl flakes? You've wasted 45 minutes.

Meanwhile, I can set myself up in a high traffic zone and approach 10 girls in that span. I might get 5 numbers. I might convert 2-3 of these into dates and at least 1 into a lay. IMO this is more efficient than spending 45 minutes on a single girl that may or may not pan out.

I've converted 5 minute sets into dates and lays. I've been flaked on by a 2 hour instant date. To paraphrase Chris Rock, a woman has decided whether she'll fuck you within the first 5 minutes of meeting you. Why waste time by BSing more? Whether you spend 5 minutes BSing on the street or 50 minutes BSing in a coffee shop, at the end the day you're still that "random guy."

[Veloce]

(07-09-2012 12:41 PM)Juan Antonio Wrote:  

(07-08-2012 11:42 AM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

I don't agree with a lot of the assertions being posted on this thread. I won't deny the OPs experience but it's obvious to me something isn't right, either he's not internalizing Day Bang enough or, truth be told, he's just not attractive enough, or his speech is off, or he's not properly screening.

I've never done a proper breakdown of percentages or data sheets, but I'd say 40% of my day approaches end in dates. I screen like a mofo though. My days of approaching 20 girls a day are long gone, I just can't be bothered to care that much. The thing is, is I'm always ON. I'm always screening, even if I'm not out to pick up. I might look and smell like shit, maybe I just got off work and I'm at the liquor store buying a 6 pack, maybe I'm at Target getting socks. No matter where I am, if I'm out in public, I take twice as long to do everything just so I can explore every aisle, every store section, look under every nook and cranny to find a girl that passes the boner test. If I find said girl, I screen. I try to pull eye contact. I ramble out loud right next to her for a reaction. I check if she's glued to her phone or just seems bitchy or ADD (granted, I'm sure I've lost potential bangs from this) I only consider it an approach once I actually directly address her, "Hi, so blah blah blah blah..."

Roosh details the script pretty well. Thing is, is girls are like machines. You gotta follow the guidelines. I ONLY ask her personal questions once she starts asking me personal questions, and I make sure I ask her fewer. I'm very careful and strategic about dropping bait. In those 40% of successful approaches, I'd say about a quarter of them ask for my number. In best case scenario it happens around the 45 minute mark. It never happens faster than 15 minutes, and the date or bang is much less likely then.

45 minutes in a single set seems excessive. What happens if the girl flakes? You've wasted 45 minutes.

Meanwhile, I can set myself up in a high traffic zone and approach 10 girls in that span. I might get 5 numbers. I might convert 2-3 of these into dates and at least 1 into a lay. IMO this is more efficient than spending 45 minutes on a single girl that may or may not pan out.

I've converted 5 minute sets into dates and lays. I've been flaked on by a 2 hour instant date. To paraphrase Chris Rock, a woman has decided whether she'll fuck you within the first 5 minutes of meeting you. Why waste time by BSing more? Whether you spend 5 minutes BSing on the street or 50 minutes BSing in a coffee shop, at the end the day you're still that "random guy."

You and I probably have much different styles.

If a girl has stuck with me for 45 minutes, she doesn't flake. If I've gotten her that far, *I* am the one the cuts off the interaction. If a girl bails on the interaction, it happens much faster than 45 minutes. It'll happen within the first 5.

If I get a girl to 45 minutes, chances of bang are probably greater than 50%. Again, this goes back to screening. I've never gotten a bang from a 5 minute interaction. It seems unlikely to me, but if you've gotten it then congrats. I'd actually like to hear what your conversation is like during those 5 minutes and what factors came into play.

That Chris Rock quote, to me, applies more to night game. At night there are far greater distractions so I push for development MUCH faster. Girls' attention span at night is like a ticking time bomb. At any moment she can get a text, or a friend might walk into the bar, and that's it. The plug has been pulled on my interaction with her. If I see a girl at a coffee shop or bookstore? Completely different story. She's still prone to distractions, but far fewer in my experience. Like I said, If I can get a girl to the 10-15 minute mark, I know I'm in for the long haul, and I run my script on her and gauge her attraction. Once I get that first personal question from her: "Are you from around here?" I know my odds of date/bang are very high.

[slubu]

thedude, how the hell do you get to 45 minutes at a place like target where they are there to shop? or a grocery store? I'm asking with respect because I still never daygame and I need to get over this psychological hurdle of mine. I approach more girls on a single night out than I have in my entire life during the daytime. Obviously people do it all the time so I know it's my own mental block. Just don't see how one gets to 15 minutes, much less 45.

[Veloce]

I never get to 45 minutes in "incidental" daygame scenarios. I get to 45 minutes where it is conducive, like coffee shops and bookstores. The majority of my daygame bangs are from those two venues. I've gotten two from grocery store shopping, and in those cases time is limited to 15 minutes or so. I've approached plenty in grocery stores but like I said, due to the short interaction time it's harder to build the deeper attraction and get a lower flake rate. I try not to limit myself in any scenario, but thus far I've found that grocery store or department store game is mostly beneficial to get approaches out of the way and establish my vibe for the rest of the day. The flake rate tends to be high. If I wasn't working so much I'd love to dedicate a few weeks to improving my game during those short interactions, just to be that guy that has a high success rate ANYWHERE.

Slubu your boy hit me up about discussing cooking school sometime. You two should head up and we'll do some approaches or get a beer somewhere