[zatara]

(04-21-2016 10:06 AM)AlphaPrimate22 Wrote:  

1.) Women never approach. That's our job.

This is completely wrong. Go out to a busy bar most places in the developed world with a guy friend whos properly good looking and he'll get approached multiple times by girls. As many people in this thread are saying.

Not trying to be harsh here, but if women never approach you, its because you're not good looking - sorry. This is the case for the vast majority of guys, because they're only 'average'.

(04-21-2016 04:27 AM)Pride male Wrote:  

I havent seen anyone on the forum claim to be an ugly looking man. Honestly speaking I am not particularly good looking.

I came to the realization years ago I was a a '5' or '6' facially. Accepting it was actually great for me as a person; it meant I had to focus on other ways to improve my attractiveness. I spent years hitting weights hard and worked on my fashion sense and inner game. Being in great shape? +1pt. Having good hair, a tan and nice teeth? +1pt Nice clothes? +1pt. Once you hit '8' or so in looks it gets your foot in the door with most girls. Then its just down to your charm game, which anyone can improve with effort/practice.

[Travesty]

^ zatara's example is exactly what I am talking about.

I am not trying to be some analytical typist over here.

The main point is look:

If you don't get cold approached often (I am talking since puberty or before) know you have to bring a lot more to the table and that often times lifting weights or getting great style won't be enough to get cold approached even then. You will need to realize as soon as possible that the gift of gab and approaching a lot of quality girls (and high status men) is your in.

For some guys the real red pill truth is that if you have an average or under average enough face I would highly recommend mastering social circle game as soon as possible for the best results. Make friends, know people, get into cool hobbies that chicks dig.

I am at a looks level where I can get away with night game, direct day game, and online although not without a good amount of work.

If I was very average looking you can bet your ass I would focus 90% on social capital and lifestyle.

It is no coincidence this is what many older guys focus on as they lose their looks with age.

[MrXY]

Yeah, women absolutely do approach GLGs. One of the hardest game skills for me to master was how to handle an approach by a woman.

Being approached is a lot different than approaching. Approaching, at least in nightgame, requires a cocky/funny or even assholish demeanor; you have to break through the girls indifference and psychological defenses and get her intrigued very quickly.

A girl who is approaching you is in a very different psychological state. She is already strongly attracted to you- enough the overcome the natural female passivity in the mating game. And she knows she is "putting herself out there" and taking the risk of rejection, which is something women rarely do, living in the cocoon of praise and support provided for women in western culture.

An approaching woman is highly vulnerable, and is easily hurt and frightened away. I learned this by inadvertently blowing out girls on many occasions by acting too cocky when they approached. They are sensitive to the slightest sign that you don't think they are good enough for you and are preparing to reject them, and they will slink away quickly , i.e. what PUA gurus refer to as "blowing themselves out."

Assuming you do want to talk to a girl who approaches you, respond by being friendly with an upbeat vibe. Avoid sarcasm or cockiness. However, being evasive in responding to her attempts to interview you works very well because it creates the mystery women love and shows you aren't inclined to be ingratiating. If she compliments you on something, just say "Thanks" and don't give her a compliment in return. After 5-10 minutes the initial phase is over and her anxiety at being rejected has reduced considerably, so you can start adding dashes of cocky funny back in. Then game as usual, but put it on a bit more of a fast track.

[Giovonny]

Good looking people are perceived as being smarter, more successful, more talented, etc.

The "Halo Effect" is real.

So, its in our best interest to present ourselves as best we can.

--

Quote:

I am not particularly good looking.

Quote:

I am not goodlooking

For the average to below average looking guys..

What I'm about to say is something that I have discussed and studied in depth over the last 7 years..

Almost All Men Can Drastically Change Their Looks and "Look" !

I have seen guys on this forum do it, I have seen their "before" and "after" pictures. I have personally met with guys from this forum and was amazed at how much their were able to alter and transform their appearance.

On the scale of 1 -10, I have seen 5s improve to 7 -- I have seen 4s improve to 6. I have seen a lot of 6s improve to 7 and 7s improve to 8.

All of us have the power to improve at least 2 points on the 1 to 10 scale.

--

Confidence is an wonderful thing. It changes the default expression on your face. It relaxes the muscles around your neck and head. It allows you to present yourself in the most attractive way.

But, before you develop the confidence, you will first have to make the physical changes;

- Always keep a fresh, stylish haircut

- Always be improving your wardrobe and "look".

- Always be improving or at least maintain your body (DIET + muscles, no )

- Always be well groomed.

- Always pay attention to the little details like shoes, belts, nose hair, body odor, bad breath, fingernails, eye brows, etc.

- Always be evolving your social skills.

If you do these things and do them well, you can do improve your looks at least 2 point on the 1-10 scale.

--

Also, I know ugly guys who do better than good looking guys.

How?

SOCIAL STRATEGY!

They position themselves well, they are efficient with their tactics, they work harder and smarter, etc.

- I have an ugly friend who is a club promoter; he gets with hot girls.

- I have an ugly friend who works at a hip tattoo shop; he gets with cute girls.

- I have an ugly friend who dresses well and goes out 5 nights a week; he gets girls

So, it's not always about your game or your looks, sometimes, its about your greater overall strategy for meeting women.

I see 4 issues at play here: Looks, Game, "Look", and Social Strategy.

[Pride male]

^Yeah, being attractive is a choice.

[AlphaPrimate22]

(04-21-2016 02:13 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

(04-21-2016 10:06 AM)AlphaPrimate22 Wrote:  

1.) Women never approach. That's our job.

You need to spend a few hours out with me in a Southern California beach town and I doubt you'll ever say that again. You'll probably get approached too.

The town I'm in is not even remotely close to SoCal. It sucks. Mostly fat women/rednecks. Campus is the only place to fuck bitches but outside of campus is hicktown USA.

[Ensam]

One thing I've always struggled with is recognizing an approach. Women will often soft approach, e.g. position themselves so it's ridiculously easy for you to open them. My game stepped up a notch when I realized that if a girl gets within earshot of you at a bar 90% of the time she wants you to open her.

I'm a decently attractive guy. I get soft approached about half the time I go out and hard approached maybe one out of ten times. Those numbers and the quality of girl go up and down noticeably depending on what kind of shape I'm in and how my overall attitude is. I think there's an uncanny valley between when <6s approach and when >7s approach. You can be too attractive for a 6 to think she has a chance but not attractive enough for 7s to risk the rejection.

[mikado]

@Giovonny


Oh don't worry, I know that. Hence why I decided to start lifting.

I admit that I even cried before on a few nights after going months without pussy, wondering why all my night outs weren't getting me laid, have me being ignored by 6 or 7s, whereas I would see GLG REJECTING cute or hot girls who would try so hard and be "please notice me senpai"

After that I understood that most of my game would not get me anywhere if I did not offset my ugly face.

I am still at 15% bf at 5' 11" since it has only been 1 month and 3 weeks that I was regular at the gym (and started having a healthy diet), however in the mean time I lost 10% bf and put on 9 lbs on muscle, nothing impressive really. Still quantity of eye contact has increased and I definitely feel more atrractive.

I won't do nightgame until I get sub 10% (my aim) and am psychologically prepared to only have 6- girls approaching me (like my friend with a similar story to mine). I know I probably won't be ever good looking, but this only motivates me to become big and lean, and trump the odds

[Dalaran1991]

@Mikado: In France you really need a social strategy. I don't know where you are but in Paris night game is out of the question if you are not jacked or "pretty boy"

You are still a Phd students. School activities should be a goldmine. Day game on campus seriously. French girls think themselves intellectual so use it. Use the "is that an interesting book you are reading" or whatever jump her inflated ego.

Or better yet, find a niche. Martial arts (tons of hot girls in boxing in France, not sure why?), cooking, dancing, whatever.

Stop gaming in bars or nightclubs... French bitches are much more willing to call guys "creepy" chelou/relou IME. Unless you are that European prince charming or some real exotic hot dick.

[Player_1337]

It's a tricky issue. I feel that I often have girls 'soft open' me (to quote a term Ensam previously stated) and present opportunities without fully laying down their cards and conventionally approaching to start up the interaction (i.e. both at night and during the day- getting in close proximity, repeated eye contact, touching themselves, etc.).

After all of my exploits with approaching, dates, texting, mini-relationships, bangs, etc. I feel I've caused chicks to ghost because they figured I was primarily looking to fuck (mostly accurate - as I always push the physicality asap, setting favorable logistics and looking to bang date 1) and was never going to really open up about myself or commit. I'd like to think they were basically rejecting themselves.

Asian chicks are probably the most enamored with my looks, though I recently had a sexy caucasian 19 yr old keep saying I was very cute and handsome. It has happened in the past with multiple ethnicities, but asian chicks always seem to be easiest for me to pull.

[Giovonny]

(04-21-2016 03:59 PM)Pride male Wrote:  

being attractive is a choice.

I would say it like this:

Maximizing your attractiveness is a choice.

Increasing your attractiveness is a choice.

Dressing well, being fit, evolving your "look", being well groomed, having a sharp hair style; All of these things are choices.

All Men Have the Power to Change Their Look at Least 2 Points in the 1-10 Scale !

Some of the most highly repped members on this forum have done it. I have personally witnessed it.

--

Also, *Cosmetic Surgery*! We all have the power to literally make changes to our face and body if we really want to.

Cosmetic surgery gives us even more power to change our body and face! Girls have fake tits, fake butts, fake lips, etc. We can't a man improve his looks in the same way!!!

If was ugly, I would strongly consider every option available to me!
--

(04-22-2016 08:27 AM)mikado Wrote:  

Hence why I decided to start lifting.

Lifting is great. Having a nice body helps.

But, remember to work on your "look" as well as your looks. They are two different things.

The way you dress, your style of clothes, they way they fit, your hair style, your accessories, etc. All these things should be finely tuned for your location + to attract the specific types of girls that are available in your location.

You could have a great body but if you don't know how to properly and tastefully display it, no girls will notice or be enticed by it,

You can dress well but if you are not dressing in a way that attracts the type of girls available to you; then, dressing well will not really help you.

That's the difference between your looks and your "look". Those two things must work together as a team.

(04-22-2016 08:27 AM)mikado Wrote:  

I probably won't be ever good looking, but this only motivates me to become big and lean, and trump the odds

Again, being big and lean is awesome but you must display it in such a way that it attracts the girls that are available to you in your current location. (Your "look" + style)

And, dont forget about your Overall Social Strategy!

This is different from your game! Game is how you talk to girls.

Social Strategy is -- where do you go to meet girls, what type of girls are available to you, how many girls do you talk to every day, what locations give you the best opportunity to meet girls, what activities give you the best opportunity to meet girls, what hobbies attract the types of girls you like, does your living situation help or hurt your sex life, who do you hang out with, who do you learn from, who helps you to socialize better, should you focus on day game, night game, or online game? How much of each should you focus on, etc.

These things make up your Overall Social Strategy. Your Game and your strategy should compliment each other.

Don't just work on your game and your looks, also, work on your "look" and your overall strategy.

(04-22-2016 09:42 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

In France you really need a social strategy.

Thanks for understanding what I'm saying and reminding Mikado

--

This reminds me of a post I wrote on Roosh's blog a few years ago..

It's all about fine tuning your strategy to better focus on the specific types of girls that are available to you in a certain location.

The FishBowl

For me, strategy and "look" is just as important as game and looks.

[Pride male]

Cristiano Ronaldo maximised his looks. But can a guy like Steve Buscemi realistically looksmax?

[Cheetah]

(04-20-2016 12:27 PM)ComebackKid Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 10:52 AM)zatara Wrote:  

My life experience agrees with Travesty and Rush87. Most guys think they're 'above average' in looks, nearly all of them aren't.

I've got two guy friends from uni who I know are extremely good looking because they got opened by random girls every time we went to a bar in college, and still do years later. Neither has any game to this day, because to them getting laid was always just a case of "don't say anything retarded or get so drunk you pass out". If they stayed in any way sober they'd go home with a good looking girl, if they got fucked up they'd still probably pull a '5' who considered herself lucky to get with them.

Unless girls are opening you you are not above average in looks. Above average guys stand out from the crowd of 'average' by definition so will regularly get opened by girls.

Bingo. Delusion is not exclusive to women. I've seen some self proclaimed good looking guys post their pics on bodybuilding misc and gll forums, and while some of them were good looking, majority of them were delusional as fuck.

Tinder is by far the best test whether you are good looking or not. Just search "bodybuilding misc male model tinder" and see what results good looking guys get:

• Ridiculous number of matches
• Matches include hot 6+ girls (my system 6=cute, 7=hot, 8+= female models/strippers/etc)
• Girls (including hot) saying hi / starting convo/ being very engaging
• Retarded openers that would get average guy unmatched work fine
  

If you don't get results like that on Tinder, then you're not good looking. Period.

You can read this if you don't believe me:
http://www.tinderseduction.com/male-mode...ase-study/
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread...=162407671

That's what the guy running fake male model tinder account says:

Quote:

Made a tinder troll account just to see how well a male model compares to the rest of us. The results are unbelievable (srs). Every single girl I swipe yes to has been an instant match. There hasn't been a SINGLE time where I have swiped yes and there was no match. All of the following convos take place in a time frame of about 2 hours (srs). I can't even keep up with all the matches/messages I'm getting, it would probably take 10+ people working full time to talk to all the girls who want his dick.

I knew it would be successful, but I'm still in shock of how slooty these girls are/what they will do for this brah's dick (srs). I can literally say ANYTHING and still get their #. The girls often initiate first and respond immediately when I send a message. Admittedly I did get turned down a few times only because I opened with stuff like "let's fukc" (srs).

Also I have absolutely zero game. I wasnt even trying, just sending random bullshiit that came off top of my head but it doesnt matter

And I have/had good looking friends and maybe this matches Travesty, Rush, zatara experience, the thing that most stands out from good looking guys interactions with girls is how receptive/friendly they are off the bat in many interactions. In mixed loose social circle settings if good looking guy initiates convo/introduces himself it will appear as if the girl have been waiting for him to do so while in other cases it would be polite rather than receptive conversation.

Those pictures are professionally taken. How much difference would it have made if the picture would have been of the same person but instead consisted of an "iphone selfie" only showing the face? Anyone tried to change from a phone selfie to professionally taken photos and can comment on the change of results?

[General Stalin]

(04-22-2016 04:57 PM)Cheetah Wrote:  

Those pictures are professionally taken. How much difference would it have made if the picture would have been of the same person but instead consisted of an "iphone selfie" only showing the face? Anyone tried to change from a phone selfie to professionally taken photos and can comment on the change of results?

Check out BlurredSevens legendary data sheet on that:

thread-45167.html

[Travesty]

^ Yeah people have done that experiment multiple times

A great looking guy with a shit iPhone selfie in a dirty bathroom mirror, scruffy with bad clothes, still kills compared to John Doe 6 with with perfect lighting and clothes (as long as the guy's face, eyes, body shape can be easily perceived)

Why do guys try to put mental gymnastics on this shit?

Here is another anecdote. These girls in college I knew would always talk about a guy in one of their lectures they knew he wore old pajama pants and flip flops, scruffy to class everyday (a place where it snowed). They absolutely loved it, they though it was brave or DGAF. It was just because he was ridiculously good looking. 98% of other guys would be seen as unhygenic slobs.

Fashion is the same way really good looking people and especially artists and musicians often wear things other people cannot pull off. On a normal person they would look ridiculous or ugly. On a great looking person or famous one it looks daring and cool.

The vast majority of guys will not be pulling a BlurredSevens road of fire destruction on Tinder or like the male model experiments even if they get ripped and have the classic beach and puppy picture. They will do better most likely getting a lot of 6 interest. Young 7s and 8s all day long? Very doubtful without outstanding base genetics.

The only thing that would make this possible is nano plastic surgery facial and skin reconstruction in the future. If the surgery was that good then everyone would get it and be on a pretty level playing field looks wise.

[AneroidOcean]

(04-22-2016 04:57 PM)Cheetah Wrote:  

<SNIP SNIP>

Those pictures are professionally taken. How much difference would it have made if the picture would have been of the same person but instead consisted of an "iphone selfie" only showing the face? Anyone tried to change from a phone selfie to professionally taken photos and can comment on the change of results?

Glad you asked. A 100+ repped member created a thread on this very topic:

thread-45167.html

[Cheetah]

^^^

I've seen BlurredSevens datasheet and professionally taken photos sure make a difference.

The question was more if the game would need to change if only showing face (not body) and having a bad selfie picture instead.

[thecrazy]

Being good looking helped me so much with nightgame, most of the laids i got come from there, either girls hard approaching me and me pretending to be the prize just to get the bang or running the caveman style getting loads of make outs till finding the one that wants to bang. I think for both ways it's all about looks, really little game is required, i had lot of funny and got lot of pussy, the cons are 1)quality, i didn't really care much about looks, my mind was to fuck anything barely acceptable that wanted to fuck me 2) that's not real game, it doesn't improve your skills with women.

[game_ethic]

When you're good looking you can get away with stuff like this

[Travesty]

^ He isn't even that good looking. He is just confident and keeps frame the conversation is at his pace at all times. He does very well with what he has.

I think he is a little cheesy though and more than a few of those numbers will flake. He has a good mindset and composure though.

[General Stalin]

(04-22-2016 07:43 PM)game_ethic Wrote:  

Cool, calm, confident, and casual.

[game_ethic]

(04-23-2016 12:14 AM)Travesty Wrote:  

^ He isn't even that good looking. He is just confident and keeps frame the conversation is at his pace at all times. He does very well with what he has.

I think he is a little cheesy though and more than a few of those numbers will flake. He has a good mindset and composure though.

There's no way most average looking guys could get away with some of the stuff he does. Notice I said "get away" and not "do". Any guy can walk up to girls and ask for their numbers, but how many would actually get the results he's getting? You don't think his looks is working in his favor? He's good looking enough to model for brands like H&M and Zara if he were taller. (He's around 5'7" I believe)

I do agree that he could hit the gym and dress a little less goofy though.

[Vinny]

(04-21-2016 02:47 PM)zatara Wrote:  

(04-21-2016 10:06 AM)AlphaPrimate22 Wrote:  

1.) Women never approach. That's our job.

This is completely wrong. Go out to a busy bar most places in the developed world with a guy friend whos properly good looking and he'll get approached multiple times by girls. As many people in this thread are saying.

Not trying to be harsh here, but if women never approach you, its because you're not good looking - sorry. This is the case for the vast majority of guys, because they're only 'average'.

(04-21-2016 04:27 AM)Pride male Wrote:  

I havent seen anyone on the forum claim to be an ugly looking man. Honestly speaking I am not particularly good looking.

I came to the realization years ago I was a a '5' or '6' facially. Accepting it was actually great for me as a person; it meant I had to focus on other ways to improve my attractiveness. I spent years hitting weights hard and worked on my fashion sense and inner game. Being in great shape? +1pt. Having good hair, a tan and nice teeth? +1pt Nice clothes? +1pt. Once you hit '8' or so in looks it gets your foot in the door with most girls. Then its just down to your charm game, which anyone can improve with effort/practice.

I get approached. Not often in Western Europe, quite regularly in eastern Europe, often in SEA. Out off all girls that approached me in my life, I've only liked few, and only one resulted in a bang.
Actually she did not approach me, her friend did, because she asked her. And she was a 6.5ish. Biggest cumming machine I have ever encountered.
Guy do get approached, but never by high quality girls.

[XPQ22]

(04-22-2016 07:43 PM)game_ethic Wrote:  

When you're good looking you can get away with stuff like this

Good enough looking guy, but what I'm really curious about is if girls generally go for that tone of voice.

Because to my ears, he has a speaking voice reminiscent of a tungsten-carbide slug.

Hard to pay attention to what he's saying because all I'm hearing in my mind is "Ah, what up bro? Damn dawg, yo yo yo."

I'd say maybe half of these girls are maybe kinda interested, and the rest seem like they're throwing out the digits to be rid of him.

"Um, like, how old are you though?" - that's the girl-equivalent of unleashing the fangs and going right for the jugular.

Quote:

I think he is a little cheesy though

Only a little? Imagine how he could do if he had game! My hypothesis is that someone like Roosh, say, could approach all these girls and say pretty much exactly the same lines in a different tone of voice and phrasing, and come away with twice as many bangs as this guy. What's he doin' taking flakey numbers for anyway. Have the hidden camera follow him all the way from the initial approach to her bedroom door on the same night and I will believe in the power of GOOD LOOKING GUY GAME.

Same goes for the "good looking guys" on Tinder. Think because a girl on Tinder tells you she loves anal via text that she's on lock? Oh goodness.

[BPDharem]

A) I get approached just about anywhere I go. Attractive but 5 foot 9, so most women see me as attainable.
B) Attractive guy game includes sitting there with good posture and a bored look on your face. Occasionally break this by laughing at something funny.
C) Closing the deal includes never breaking character. Women take up the role of closing at that point.
If she's basically throwing herself at you but overly insecure, things change slightly. Generally in this case she wont be super close to you like most women. So you close the distance while continuing you show no emotion and take her right there. Done right and her logic never even has a chance to react - she is already running fully on emotions. Example, few weeks back I went outside to smoke a cigarette at a bar. This was a local bar, supported by regulars. The bar tender came out, went to her car and grabbed her bowl to smoke next to me (she is seen as a good girl by most, very shy). Halfway through the one sided conversation, I walked up to her and turned her around without saying a word. If she had been thinking rationally, she never would have done this at work. Had I attempted to change the venue, I may have made a mistake in my game shattering the illusion she had. Staying in a place where I had full control and acting while she was running on emotions kept my need for actual game to a very minimum. Good looking guys have way too many ways to make mistakes, some ways it easier for us and other ways it's harder. A single small crack can doom a ONS. Where as a less attractive guy can make a few mistakes and be ok.

If you get it right you step to the next level. Right now I have a BPD chick who helps with threesomes (been screwed over multiple times by BPD's, but through that I gained experience...). She basically the opposite of what I portray. Insecure, talkative, and funny. She's great because I can make mistakes while she is around and still secure a close.