[Sketness]

A good analogy for why beta guys fail:

http://totalfratmove.com/812001?page=1&filter=month

[Samseau]

That is just so horribly written I could barely read it. Luckily my ability to skim through shit writing is excellent, after having spent years in the education system.

Here's the summary:

Quote:

Nice guys…are like sluts. Emotional sluts. Think about it. What do guys want? Sex. And a girl who gives out sex left-and-right is a slut. What do girls want? Love. So a guy, who gives out love left-and-right…is a SLUT. It’s not that we don’t want a guy to be nice to us. We do. The same way guys want girls who are good in bed. But we still want it to be a challenge, so I guess that means we don’t want someone who is nice to us without making us work for it, or someone who is nice and caring to everyone. Nice guys give their love too quickly, too easily, too blatantly, and to too many girls. It’s not attractive. Nothing is attractive about a girl who will sleep with anyone, or a guy who will love anyone.

[Riker]

Wait so thinking that we are all brothers and sisters on this planet and being generally loving to all is unattractive...

[gds555]

Samseau, I have to disagree with your opinion that the article "is just so horribly written I could barely read it". I thought the writing was fine: coherent, witty, well-organized, well-balanced, and reasonably concise.

I get the feeling you take the general attitude that formal writing style is "good" and informal writing style is "bad". That's the kind of view people took a hundred years ago and earlier, but it's out of touch with the modern world. I'd suggest reading the article again and trying to appreciate it for what it is, rather than condemning it just because it doesn't read like an essay by Samuel Johnson or Henry James.

[Samseau]

(02-28-2012 09:22 PM)gds555 Wrote:  

Samseau, I have to disagree with your opinion that the article "is just so horribly written I could barely read it". I thought the writing was fine: coherent, witty, well-organized, well-balanced, and reasonably concise.

I get the feeling you take the general attitude that formal writing style is "good" and informal writing style is "bad". That's the kind of view people took a hundred years ago and earlier, but it's out of touch with the modern world. I'd suggest reading the article again and trying to appreciate it for what it is, rather than condemning it just because it doesn't read like an essay by Samuel Johnson or Henry James.

Did you read the part of my post where I said my ability to skim through shit writing was excellent because of the years I spent being "educated"?

This means I spent years of reading bad writing from professors and other academics, so I developed an ability to skim through crap. Like this blog post.


But since you want satisfaction, and I'm procrastinating from meaningful work right now, let's pick apart this post:

The 1st paragraph:

Quote:

“Nice Guys” love to complain about the fact that girls never like them. “Blah blah blah, woe is me, I treat her flawlessly, but she still likes that asshole.” We’re inclined to feel bad for them. They really are so sweet, and they say the right things, and they are always there for us. They are the ones who help us carry things, shovel our cars out of the snow, and bring us soup when we are sick. They plan out the perfect dates, they buy us the best and most thoughtful gifts, and they aren’t afraid to tell us how they really feel. They seem to do everything right…but we still don’t want them. It seems stupid. Is something wrong with us? No, absolutely not. There is a reason, and I hope, after having put it in these terms for them, nice guys will finally understand the error of their ways.

First of all, we automatically know this paragraph sucks because we could delete the entire thing, and the central message of the blog post would be the same.

Next, the first three sentences all lack identification of the nouns. I'm not retarded, so I know that she's a girl talking about nice guys, but if I didn't have my cultural context I'd have no fucking clue who or what she's talking about.

Quote:

They really are so sweet, and they say the right things, and they are always there for us. They are the ones who help us carry things, shovel our cars out of the snow, and bring us soup when we are sick. They plan out the perfect dates, they buy us the best and most thoughtful gifts, and they aren’t afraid to tell us how they really feel.

Redundant. You call this concise? This is diarrhea. Not to mention - she's just listing cliches. That's another negative point.

Quote:

They seem to do everything right…but we still don’t want them. It seems stupid.

What seems stupid? The fact that girls don't like nice guys? Again, there's no way to infer this without understanding the cultural context. Terrible writing.

Quote:

Is something wrong with us? No, absolutely not. There is a reason, and I hope, after having put it in these terms for them, nice guys will finally understand the error of their ways.

The question of whether or not there is something wrong with women is beside the point. No need to mention it at all.


Let's rewrite the first paragraph:

Quote:

How come guys who give women their respect and affection receive so little in return from women? As a woman, let me tell you an easy analogy to show where nice guys err with women.

See? Now this is clear and concise, and this tells the reader everything about the rest of the blog post. I won't go through the rest of the blog entry, I think my point is clear.

[Excelsior]

(02-28-2012 07:09 PM)Riker Wrote:  

Wait so thinking that we are all brothers and sisters on this planet and being generally loving to all is unattractive...

In America, yes.

Remember: Bitches be Crazy.

Also, the article is off on several points.

Quote:

The reason guys don’t want sluts is because they are easy to obtain. If you’re giving yourself out to everyone, there is no challenge. They want a challenge. Someone they need to chase after. It’s no accomplishment to get someone anyone could have.

This is the type of BS excuse women use to justify being difficult with men. It is also projection (women projecting what they like in men and assuming it is what men like in women).

The real reason men don't want sluts is because of biology, specifically the inherent fear of cuckolding.
Modern human has been on earth for 200,000+ years (millions if you count our close ancestors). Modern DNA testing (to guarantee a child is yours) and birth control have existed for about 50 years (and even then, only in wealthier parts of the first world).

How did you, as an average guy, work to ensure that your children were yours in the days before these modern conveniences existed?
You avoided sluts, that's how. You also developed a strong preference for sexual exclusity (read: "you're my slut, nobody else's") and you became competitive with other guys in order to keep them away from YOUR woman.

Quote:

But we still want it to be a challenge, so I guess that means we don’t want someone who is nice to us without making us work for it, or someone who is nice and caring to everyone.

Yes, you read that right.
To the average young American woman, being decent to people out of principle is a flaw. Being a naturally courteous person is something to be looked down upon here. It is a weakness.

Like I said: Bitches be crazy.

Also:

Quote:

Nice guys give their love too quickly, too easily, too blatantly, and to too many girls. It’s not attractive. Nothing is attractive about a girl who will sleep with anyone, or a guy who will love anyone. It’s not a good feeling to be on the arm of a guy who’s already had feelings for a million other girls, maybe even your friends. He’s probably been turned down by plenty of girls for this very reason.

This writer has made a couple of faulty assumptions here.

Firstly, she has assumed that any sign of decency by a nice guy (just being courteous or generally nice to a girl) is a sign of love. This is not true-some people are just nice, and can be nice to many girls who they do not intend to fuck.

Secondly, she has assumed that the love of the average "nice guy" is cheap and fleeting. This isn't true either-nice guys do not fall in love every 2 minutes. On the contrary, they have a tendency to do the opposite: they often catch "oneitis" for a single female and obsess over her, putting her on a pedestal and making her the single target of their affection for long periods of time.

You can argue that this is not desirable behavior either (it isn't), but either way the idea of "nice guy" love being cheap is a farce.

Quote:

The Asshole is like the prim and proper girl who doesn’t sleep with anyone. Love is in there somewhere, but they just seem to NEVER want to give it up. This is who we want. And why? Because if you get that thing from this person (love or sex, I think I’ll just use them interchangeably…they’re practically the same thing anyway, right? kidding), you get to feel AWESOME about yourself. This person doesn’t give it to just anyone. Something is special about you.

Look at that little guy run. This writer's rationalization hamster is moving on overdrive.

First, she assumed that the average nice-guy's love was cheap (wrong). Now she assumes that the average asshole's love is expensive. Considering how men of that nature have a tendency to have higher partner counts (contradicting notions of their higher exclusivity) and are often the men we label as "ladies men", "players", or "manwhores", this is just completely off.

Most guys who are good at bedding multiple women don't see each one as some sort of special snowflake at all. They can make it LOOK LIKE they do, but that is very rarely actually the case. They're just fucktoys and notches-end of story.

Only the women delude themselves into thinking otherwise.

The paradox we see here is remarkable. Women have somehow convinced themselves that only guys consistently willing to bother with them in a non-sexual capacity and generally devote large amounts of time just being kind to them (be gentlemanly, listen to their problems, help them when asked, and all the other "nice guyisms" you so often hear about) are actually the men that don't give a fuck about them.

On the other hand, they have convinced themselves that the men who are visibly rude, distant and display no devotion/affection whatsoever (aka "assholes") actually care more, and consider them "special".

Amazing.

As a former (thank god) "nice guy" myself, I'll say this to all the young dudes out there: show these women zero devotion or affection if you actually want to have a sexual relationship with them. Cleanse yourself of your gentlemanly principles and become a caveman; devolve.

Not only do women here demand this (this article is a perfect illustration of this mindset among the young American female), but they quite frankly deserve nothing more than this. Just give them what they want. Take it from me-you'll be better for it.

If being a good guy is something you just can't help, then by all means, stick to your principles. Just do not expect anything but contempt from these women. They know no better.

[Samseau]

Athlone, you can still be nice to people. Don't let these bitches retardation ruin your day.

The truth is that women do not prefer assholes anymore than nice guys, it's just that assholes are better able to game women due to their uncaring attitude.

You can still be a good person and fuck more women than you know what to do with. It's difficult to explain here, but someday on my blog this should be made clear.

If I see anyone who really needs help, even if it's a pretty young girl, I'll still help him/her. I know I have the skills to turn these situations around into a lay, and I know that helping someone in great need won't hurt your chances to get laid nor will it help them.

That said, never go out of your way to help a woman. But not going out of your way to help doesn't make you a rude prick.

[Excelsior]

(02-28-2012 10:29 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Athlone, you can still be nice to people. Don't let these bitches retardation ruin your day.

I am. I was a gentleman out of upbringing, not out of some malicious sexual hoax (as so many women like to assume). I cannot undue my own programming-I was raised to adhere to more "gentlemanly" norms. It isn't an act, so I won't ever stop completely.

However, I've got to be reaslistic because the truth is staring me (and every other guy) right in the face: American women hate nice guys. Gentleman = weak (or, in the case of this particular bimbo, "slut") to them.

That's just reality.

Quote:

The truth is that women do not prefer assholes anymore than nice guys, it's just that assholes are better able to game women due to their uncaring attitude.

You can still be a good person and fuck more women than you know what to do with. It's difficult to explain here, but someday on my blog this should be made clear.

If I see anyone who really needs help, even if it's a pretty young girl, I'll still help him/her. I know I have the skills to turn these situations around into a lay, and I know that helping someone in great need won't hurt your chances to get laid nor will it help them.

That said, never go out of your way to help a woman. But not going out of your way to help doesn't make you a rude prick.

No, you're right, but I should make my statements a bit more nuanced.

Firstly, I think it is absolutely true that the average young American woman does not like nice guys. We see this every day, I don't think more evidence is needed.

That being said, it is also true that one does not have to be an actual, tried-and-true prick to do well with women here.
You just need to feign being callous/aloof/distant like such a man for long enough to get their hamsters running as fast as the one in this author's head ("You just KNOW there is love in there somewhere!!"). Then she'll be none the wiser.

That is simply game, and game can be appropriated by good guys effectively. The key is simply for them to hide their inner "good guy" as effectively as possible, and try to kill said good guy if absolutely necessary (though this is not always needed, especially if one travels).

I'm working on the latter option now (though for aforementioned reasons I doubt I will ever totally succeed). Whatever works better for you is cool.

[silent_scope]

Actually this site here explains why betas/nice guys always fail. Best explanation I've read so far.

http://www.nomoremrniceguy.com/forums/sh...hp?t=25020

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Quote:

Look at that little guy run. This writer's rationalization hamster is moving on overdrive.

First, she assumed that the average nice-guy's love was cheap (wrong). Now she assumes that the average asshole's love is expensive. Considering how men of that nature have a tendency to have higher partner counts (contradicting notions of their higher exclusivity) and are often the men we label as "ladies men", "players", or "manwhores", this is just completely off.

Most guys who are good at bedding multiple women don't see each one as some sort of special snowflake at all. They can make it LOOK LIKE they do, but that is very rarely actually the case. They're just fucktoys and notches-end of story.

Only the women delude themselves into thinking otherwise.

While the blog article's author presents an interesting and, should I say, original point of view, I couldn't agree more with Athlone. At its core it's just more hamster spinning, over and over and over - and very specific to the modern western culture.

[Excelsior]

(02-29-2012 02:12 AM)silent_scope Wrote:  

Actually this site here explains why betas/nice guys always fail. Best explanation I've read so far.

http://www.nomoremrniceguy.com/forums/sh...hp?t=25020

That's much better.

[silent_scope]

(02-29-2012 09:07 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(02-29-2012 02:12 AM)silent_scope Wrote:  

Actually this site here explains why betas/nice guys always fail. Best explanation I've read so far.

http://www.nomoremrniceguy.com/forums/sh...hp?t=25020

That's much better.

What's sad is that a chick that LJBF'd me, put me on to that site.

That shit stung...

[lurker123123]

(02-29-2012 09:26 AM)silent_scope Wrote:  

(02-29-2012 09:07 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(02-29-2012 02:12 AM)silent_scope Wrote:  

Actually this site here explains why betas/nice guys always fail. Best explanation I've read so far.

http://www.nomoremrniceguy.com/forums/sh...hp?t=25020

That's much better.

What's sad is that a chick that LJBF'd me, put me on to that site.

That shit stung...

huge passive aggressive bitch