[Amour Fou]

This rant between Neil and Greek Kamaki is getting epic!

I'm just laughing here!

Carry on while I go grab my popcorn.

[Greek kamaki]

With polish girls there are basically three possibilities:future groom,sponsor or lover.If you are considered future groom the girl will treat you like royalty.She will cook for you,clean your house,wash your clothes and succumb to every sexual desire yopu have.However if you do not get seriously commited with her in 6 months after starting sex she will abandon you.This is what they do.Because if they find another future groom soon enough they are more likely to settle.If they lose maximum 6 months with everyone they can meet 3-4 grooms a year and so in 3 years they are very likely to get married.I present you their mindset.

Of course many Italians take advantage of this and present themselves as the absolute grooms to vanish completely when commitement pressure starts.This has created a terrible reputation for Italian guys in Poland as serial cheaters and liars not serious persons.

Second possibility is the sponsor.Many polish girls are open to sponsoring especially regarding rent and other expenses.The reason is quite simple.They make on average 350 euro per month in Poland and the rent costs 250-300 euro per month so how they are supposed to live?If they have a poor boyfriend they need a sponsor.On the other hand if they live abroad they get the minimum wage which is let's say 650 euro and their rent is at 300 euro.If they want some extras like fashion clothes,cosmetics,going out to clubs often they are basically fucked.That is why they search for a sponsor to pay for their rent at least.I currently sponsor 3 different polish girls and have 2 more as a lover.

Girls who get sponsored are angry about the other girls who you sponsor because they view them as competition for their income.However they comply with the fact that you need some days to see them.(for example you tell the girl sorry at this day I have a meeting with the other girl so better come next day).

Third possibility is the lover.Here you need appearance and performance.Many polish girls are sexually insatiable and future grooms and sponsors do not satisfy them enough.So they need the care of lovers as well.Here penis size is also very important and easy erection is a must.Polish girls pay a lot of attention to penis properties.They want real fucking and true orgasms.In this way you can fuck a girl who is due to marry someone else or gets money from someone else or oth of these two.That is why I am never judgemental on polish girls I know what they are doing when they are not with me and I am ready to play all of the three roles according to what each girl wants.

Polish girls feel not guilty at all they have no shame for this and if you present yourself as non judgemental you are due for some high experiences.Just refuse to play the mental games.

[MiXX]

(03-05-2012 12:10 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

Also you see Mixx has put an action where he rents an apartment for low price under the condition he fucks the girl who stays inand everyone congratulates him.

Greek, you are skating on very thin ice with this remark. Either your language skills in English are poor, or you are without a doubt, a troll.

I have absolutely no precondition defined, or implied, that I must fuck the girl. I could have easily gotten a girl who was not open to the idea of sex, and I would have had to swallow my ego, and comply with the rules of our agreement on airbnb.


Chill out with this shit, or I am going to recommend you are banned for trollin'

MIxx

[Greek kamaki]

Sorry I misunderstood what you wrote.I would do it if I had the chance maybe it is different mentality.

[Spike]

(03-06-2012 06:42 AM)Amour Fou Wrote:  



This rant between Neil and Greek Kamaki is getting epic!

I'm just laughing here!

Carry on while I go grab my popcorn.

I want to withdraw from it every day but every time i cant resist to make a comment when i read something he wrote. It surprises me a bit that people her don't back me up a bit more since its such unbelievable and doubt-able stuff he writes.

I mean come on, he's giving straight up P4P advice and won't admit it. Either people here want to know about it or are scared to stand up for something i consider real gaming.

Edit, check out his thoughts on penises and Polish girls his post above

[Greek kamaki]

Maybe it is because we Balkans are dirty like pigs and always see the dirty side of things.Maybe there is a bright side as well but I describe the dirty one.

In the case of some women maybe we are in advantage because they are pigs as well and we find each other.

[chochemonger1]

(03-06-2012 09:30 AM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 06:42 AM)Amour Fou Wrote:  



This rant between Neil and Greek Kamaki is getting epic!

I'm just laughing here!

Carry on while I go grab my popcorn.

I want to withdraw from it every day but every time i cant resist to make a comment when i read something he wrote. It surprises me a bit that people her don't back me up a bit more since its such unbelievable and doubt-able stuff he writes.

I mean come on, he's giving straight up P4P advice and won't admit it. Either people here want to know about it or are scared to stand up for something i consider real gaming.

Edit, check out his thoughts on penises and Polish girls his post above

It is his bad english, so lets just be amused and have a laugh. But there is some wisdom in what he says too, or else he would have been banned long ago. Like the Beatles wrote... LET IT BE.

[Hooligan Harry]

Define "real gaming" Neil

Not everyone is a budget traveller bud, and the belief that "real gamers" do it on the cheap only(or you are somehow cheating if they have luxuries like air con and fresh daily sheets) is getting a bit much too.

Kamaki has brought an interesting perspective to the forum and people need to show a bit of patience here. Now that we understand where he is coming from, his contributions have been given proper context. Welcome to the world of the Mediterranean and Turkish playboy. This is how many of them do things and how they have been doing it for years. They make no apologies for it either because they have not been culturally shamed into believing there is anything wrong with it. Its a different method and approach, rarely discussed or understood here because its not typical of how we do things. You dont have to practice it or even agree with it. Where they come from though, this is pick up.

Stop being so judgemental, learn what you can from it and move on. I have posted about the Italian and Turkish hordes on these forums, and they were the waves prior to the Brits on budget airlines. I have said before that darker skinned guys (latinos) need to differentiate themselves from that group because of their well earned reputations and they will initially be mistaken for them in some cases. Kamaki is giving us insight into how they operate. From reports on these forums, they are starting to become a common sight in South America now too.

Also, cultural views on sex differ around the world. As someone who has travelled as much as you have, surely you have realised that game is in itself a highly abstract concept by now?

[Spartan]

(03-06-2012 07:03 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

With polish girls there are basically three possibilities:future groom,sponsor or lover.If you are considered future groom the girl will treat you like royalty.She will cook for you,clean your house,wash your clothes and succumb to every sexual desire yopu have.However if you do not get seriously commited with her in 6 months after starting sex she will abandon you.This is what they do.Because if they find another future groom soon enough they are more likely to settle.If they lose maximum 6 months with everyone they can meet 3-4 grooms a year and so in 3 years they are very likely to get married.I present you their mindset.

How quickly is it possible to bring up the subject of marriage with Ukrainian girls?
I don't intend to marry these girls after a week...but I'd like to know if they are open to the idea of marriage and heading to Poland with me. I want to know if there is a possibility of this being a long term thing.

I'm thinking of hinting at it by the end of 1 week dating and ask if they would ever want to live abroad.

PS not "marriage trolling", just want a insight into these girls



PS I used to be pissed off at Greek Kamaki, but I think we should see things from his perspective.
I think the idea of P4P and Game are very separate in American eyes...but its approached differently here. I met this cool dude yesterday that was super good with the ladies here...but when I asked him about what attracts the ladies he mentioned money as being a big factor. You see, just like good posture and body language is a part of game....gifts/money are a part of dating in this part of the world. On the other hand, I would be more subtle in my approach..but to each his own.

[durangotang]

I propose a meetup between Neil and Kamaki. That field report would be pure gold!

[Moma]

(02-28-2012 07:20 AM)The Duke Wrote:  

I personally prefer Ukrainian girls (east-side, Russian) over Polish in terms of appearance. All things considered, the girls are hotter here. They are also easier (for me).

Polish girls are a little bit friendlier and Poland is more comfortable to live in.

(02-28-2012 05:02 AM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

You just made a fool of yourself again by saying this :
For example one might denied visa for ''spreading STDs.''

BTW -- My coworker in India needed to get an HIV test in order to get his work visa (he was Russian). As an American I did not need this test. I guess the Indian government assumes Russians coming to India are prostitutes.

Male Russian prostitutes? Wow, that's an eye opener for me.

[Pilgrim37]

"Polish girls pay a lot of attention to penis properties."

Oi Greeky....is that exclusively a Polish trait ??

[canucktraveller]

(03-06-2012 10:41 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

Define "real gaming" Neil

Not everyone is a budget traveller bud, and the belief that "real gamers" do it on the cheap only(or you are somehow cheating if they have luxuries like air con and fresh daily sheets) is getting a bit much too.

Kamaki has brought an interesting perspective to the forum and people need to show a bit of patience here. Now that we understand where he is coming from, his contributions have been given proper context. Welcome to the world of the Mediterranean and Turkish playboy. This is how many of them do things and how they have been doing it for years. They make no apologies for it either because they have not been culturally shamed into believing there is anything wrong with it. Its a different method and approach, rarely discussed or understood here because its not typical of how we do things. You dont have to practice it or even agree with it. Where they come from though, this is pick up.

Stop being so judgemental, learn what you can from it and move on. I have posted about the Italian and Turkish hordes on these forums, and they were the waves prior to the Brits on budget airlines. I have said before that darker skinned guys (latinos) need to differentiate themselves from that group because of their well earned reputations and they will initially be mistaken for them in some cases. Kamaki is giving us insight into how they operate. From reports on these forums, they are starting to become a common sight in South America now too.

Also, cultural views on sex differ around the world. As someone who has travelled as much as you have, surely you have realised that game is in itself a highly abstract concept by now?

Exactly, spending 200eu in a club in Ukraine isn't much different than spending for a private room and a hot meal in SEA. The girls are trying to improve their situation and see you as an opportunity, regardless of how good your "game" is.



Those of us who are not naturals really have 2 options to pick up top flight women, they can work on their inner game to improve their personality or they can work on their income to improve their lifestyle. It is arguable with one is more difficult and rewarding.


Greek doesn't sound like he is soliciting street walkers, he is not paying for sex as much as paying for a lifestyle (although the line is grey). There are a lot of guys that drop huge bills on chicks and get nothing just like there are guys who drop mad game and go home to their hand.

[Amour Fou]

(03-06-2012 10:03 AM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 09:30 AM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 06:42 AM)Amour Fou Wrote:  



This rant between Neil and Greek Kamaki is getting epic!

I'm just laughing here!

Carry on while I go grab my popcorn.

I want to withdraw from it every day but every time i cant resist to make a comment when i read something he wrote. It surprises me a bit that people her don't back me up a bit more since its such unbelievable and doubt-able stuff he writes.

I mean come on, he's giving straight up P4P advice and won't admit it. Either people here want to know about it or are scared to stand up for something i consider real gaming.

Edit, check out his thoughts on penises and Polish girls his post above

It is his bad english, so lets just be amused and have a laugh. But there is some wisdom in what he says too, or else he would have been banned long ago. Like the Beatles wrote... LET IT BE.

I only recently started running into his posts because I realised the tension.

Boy, the thing is, even if he is trolling, he is hilarious! And part of what makes it hilarious is that he apparently means it.

I'd have to scoop over more of what he is doing, which I haven't, to make my call. For the while I'd have to agree with the LET IT BE.

[Smitty]

(03-06-2012 10:41 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

Kamaki has brought an interesting perspective to the forum and people need to show a bit of patience here. Now that we understand where he is coming from, his contributions have been given proper context. Welcome to the world of the Mediterranean and Turkish playboy. This is how many of them do things and how they have been doing it for years. They make no apologies for it either because they have not been culturally shamed into believing there is anything wrong with it. Its a different method and approach, rarely discussed or understood here because its not typical of how we do things. You dont have to practice it or even agree with it. Where they come from though, this is pick up.

spot on.

[oldnemesis]

(03-06-2012 10:41 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

Welcome to the world of the Mediterranean and Turkish playboy. This is how many of them do things and how they have been doing it for years. They make no apologies for it either because they have not been culturally shamed into believing there is anything wrong with it. Its a different method and approach, rarely discussed or understood here because its not typical of how we do things.

The difference here is fishing in the river vs fishing in the farm pond. Both are technically fishing, and both are popular. However the discussion related to one doesn't relate to the other one.

If you're discussing game, you end up with theories, discussions, thoughts, books. There is some skill and practice involved, there are specific challenges, opportunities and feedback which is unique.

If you're discussing P4P you'll end up with a list of places and prices. Any moron can do it, there is no skill involved. Sure there are specific challenges as well (like "who can fuck the most hookers for $500") but they're not relevant to the game discussion.

Note that I'm not saying anything is wrong with P4P (and if one things there is something wrong with P4P I'd say there is something wrong with him). It is just a different animal which has nothing to do with the game.

[Hooligan Harry]

Its pick up to them though because the lines are blurred. Whats considered prostitution in the US would not be considered as such in EE. Kamaki comes from a place where the people view gender roles and casual sex differently. They view P4P differently too, and its far more normalised to the point where its not seen as payment, rather just how things work. The belief that any lays landed need to adhere to western standards and social conventions or be classified as irrelevant seems pretty arrogant to me.

Like it or not, they are seen as foreigners, just like you are. Their actions are a reflection on all foreigners too, which is why so many think that single male travellers are sex tourists. Its a label that requires some effort to shake off sometimes. Understanding how the Italians, Greeks and Turks are going about business is not a bad thing.

They are not paying directly for sex, they sponsor. While that is classified as prostitution to us, its not the case for them. Its a quasi marriage/mistress approach they take.

[Greek kamaki]

Italians do not operate this way.Most Italians are cheap tourists who are interested in playing the future groom.They come in groups to avoid big expenses.Turks are natural liars and have some charm.The sponsor angle is played mostly by some Arabs and older western Europeans.

As for lover you have to be younger than a certan age and posess sex capabilities.These girls are not searching for simple boyfriends they have polish or Ukrainian boyfriends.

Let's see the definition of hot man,real man and sexy man according to Russian girls.

Hot man is the guy who provides money for their pleasures.Real man is the man who gives them money and supports them everytime they want.Sexy man is the man who gives them money and presents and creates a sexy environment for sex(luxurious hotel,expensive dinner,drinks etc).

Russian girls play with your mannliness they will tell you you are not a man if you do not act according to their expectations.

[Greek kamaki]

Contrary to polish girls czech women are not interested at all in future grooms.The reason is they are not interested in marriage per se.Most marriages in CR end in divorce anyway(50%) so it is not a big deal.(contary to that only 10% of marriages in Poland end in divorce due to accompanying stigma).

Czech women search for boyfriends(pritele) or lovers(milenci).Few are interested in sponsoring mostly in small cities because the majority has jobs(unemployment rate 4%) and the living standards are relatively high.So a czech girl has usually a steady boyfriend and some occasional lovers.A common situation is that she stays with her boyfriend in CR and travels in the summer on vaccation to meet her foreign lover spend one week with him and come back to her boyrfriend.Czech guys do not lift a bat about this situation because it is considered normal and they cheat as well.

[DrainTree]

(03-07-2012 04:48 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

Contrary to polish girls czech women are not interested at all in future grooms.The reason is they are not interested in marriage per se.Most marriages in CR end in divorce anyway(50%) so it is not a big deal.(contary to that only 10% of marriages in Poland end in divorce due to accompanying stigma).

Czech women search for boyfriends(pritele) or lovers(milenci).Few are interested in sponsoring mostly in small cities because the majority has jobs(unemployment rate 4%) and the living standards are relatively high.So a czech girl has usually a steady boyfriend and some occasional lovers.A common situation is that she stays with her boyfriend in CR and travels in the summer on vaccation to meet her foreign lover spend one week with him and come back to her boyrfriend.Czech guys do not lift a bat about this situation because it is considered normal and they cheat as well.

So you would say Polish girls make better wives?
Ukrainian/Belarussian girls are prettier in my experience...but not so certain on personality.

How do the Italians play "future groom"? I met this one Italian dude in Poland and he gets tons of interest from the ladies. Girls love the Italian accent and have a romantic view of Italians. He also married a Polish girl and has a kid...but I think he cheats on her (mainly with men)

What about this future groom "game"? How quickly do they bring up the topic of marriage? I think they don't buy lots of gifts because if the woman sees him as a potential husband she will try to save him money.

I think that things move quickly in this part of the world, my last Ukrainian girl mentioned how Americans move too slowly...I need to keep that in mind.

[Greek kamaki]

(03-07-2012 01:37 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

The difference here is fishing in the river vs fishing in the farm pond. Both are technically fishing, and both are popular. However the discussion related to one doesn't relate to the other one.

If you're discussing game, you end up with theories, discussions, thoughts, books. There is some skill and practice involved, there are specific challenges, opportunities and feedback which is unique.

If you're discussing P4P you'll end up with a list of places and prices. Any moron can do it, there is no skill involved. Sure there are specific challenges as well (like "who can fuck the most hookers for $500") but they're not relevant to the game

Again I have to repeat that the game in slavic countries is played by women not by men.You are the bait to chase.So all these techniques push pull,cat string,negging,rapport etc are done by women you will seem as a very strange man if you try them there they are considered the job of women.

Even cocky and funny is run by women in slavic countries I would call it pussying and funny.

[Greek kamaki]

(03-07-2012 04:58 AM)DrainTree Wrote:  

[

So you would say Polish girls make better wives?
Ukrainian/Belarussian girls are prettier in my experience...but not so certain on personaow do the Italians play "future groom"? I met this one Italian dude in Poland and he gets tons of interest from the ladies. Girls love the Italian accent and have a romantic view of Italians. He also married a Polish girl and has a kid...but I think he cheats on her (mainly with men)

What about this future groom "game"? How quickly do they bring up the topic of marriage? I think they don't buy lots of gifts because if the woman sees him as a potential husband she will try to save

They bring up the topic of marriage very quickly I would say in 2 months after sex starts.They bring it up as a joke initially but with time they will be quite pressing or if they do not see any serious movement towards marriage they will break up cold.You will not see her again for a while but if you wait she may come back to you.This is about polish women.

Ukrainian women usually keep an army of future grooms besides them if they are interested in marriage so this is not a problem for them if they are pretty and have no character problems they will marry before they get 22 years old especially in province.This is one of the reasons that your audience in provincial cities are mostly girls under 22 years old or ones older but with character or personality problems or failed marriages(man alcoholic etc).

[DrainTree]

(03-07-2012 05:14 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

(03-07-2012 04:58 AM)DrainTree Wrote:  

[

So you would say Polish girls make better wives?
Ukrainian/Belarussian girls are prettier in my experience...but not so certain on personaow do the Italians play "future groom"? I met this one Italian dude in Poland and he gets tons of interest from the ladies. Girls love the Italian accent and have a romantic view of Italians. He also married a Polish girl and has a kid...but I think he cheats on her (mainly with men)

What about this future groom "game"? How quickly do they bring up the topic of marriage? I think they don't buy lots of gifts because if the woman sees him as a potential husband she will try to save

They bring up the topic of marriage very quickly I would say in 2 months after sex starts.They bring it up as a joke initially but with time they will be quite pressing or if they do not see any serious movement towards marriage they will break up cold.You will not see her again for a while but if you wait she may come back to you.This is about polish women.

Ukrainian women usually keep an army of future grooms besides them if they are interested in marriage so this is not a problem for them if they are pretty and have no character problems they will marry before they get 22 years old especially in province.This is one of the reasons that your audience in provincial cities are mostly girls under 22 years old or ones older but with character or personality problems or failed marriages(man alcoholic etc).

Yes, I see this quite often. The FSU girls I've met that are younger seem more normal..but also not as interested/more cold and distant. They probably have more options to choose from.

The older ones often have character defects. One older girl I met was extremely pushy/bossy, the other was very nice..but she was somewhat strange. So, I think I am sticking to the younger girls.


How do you tell what the girl is looking for? For example, you mention the 3 types of men that these women want (Lover, Sponsor, Groom). What questions do you ask to see what she is looking for?

[Greek kamaki]

You do not need to ask any questions.They will explain their intentions quite early.

For example the girl interested in marriage will talk to you about kids and her girlfriend who got married to a foreigner.The girl who wants a sponsor will tell you about her financial difficulties and how she saw an item she liked in a shop.The girl interested in a lover will ask where you stay and if it is possible she comes(usually they say may I come to watch TV with you or may I come to your apartment?).

So in any case it is quite obvious one does not need to make an effort it is the girl's job to explain herself.We talk here about Ukraine because the situation in Poland is a bit different.

[oldnemesis]

(03-07-2012 01:59 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

Its pick up to them though because the lines are blurred. Whats considered prostitution in the US would not be considered as such in EE.

I don't see it as blurred at all.
If you're approaching girls with something like "want to make quick $50?" this is P4P.
If you're paying her rent, this is P4P.

As I said before, it is easy to test: if you remove the money out of the equation, would she fuck you or not?

Quote:

Kamaki comes from a place where the people view gender roles and casual sex differently. They view P4P differently too, and its far more normalised to the point where its not seen as payment, rather just how things work. The belief that any lays landed need to adhere to western standards and social conventions or be classified as irrelevant seems pretty arrogant to me.

I wonder if you actually read what I wrote as I already said there is nothing wrong with P4P, and have no problem with that.
It is just "game advice" is different from "P4P advice", because those are two different things.

Quote:

They are not paying directly for sex, they sponsor.

This doesn't matter. You're either paying for sex or you do not, and it is irrelevant how to call it. Again, there is nothing wrong in paying for sex, it just belongs to a different achievement category.