[beta_plus]

If you could only live in DC, Toronto, or Copenhagen, which would you pick? This is meant to be a bit of an intellectual exercise, so it would be appreciated if you force yourself to only consider these 3 cities.

Stumbling on this site has been a real eye opener.
Full disclosure: I'm a DC native who grew up in the Northwest DC (as in actually the city itself), who is 1/2 Danish, and got his undergraduate degree in Ontario.

So, basically my experience with women has been overwhelmingly with the areas of the world this site (and I suspect its owner) hates the most.

My personal answer to the question is absolutely Washington, DC. Yes, it's the battle of the shitholes, but in my experience DC wins hands down. As awful as women are in DC, they are many times worse in the other 2 cities. Women will at least talk to me here when I approach. I have a fighting chance when I'm DC, and I can at least once in a while score a notch. I really can't count on that in the other two. Getting laid (at least by a non-hideous and non-fat chick) feels absolutely hopeless when I'm in Toronto or Copenhagen.

So, if you had no other choice, which one would you pick?

[Deluge]

Copenhagen, that's a no brainer. I do think that Denmark is unrepresentative of the Nordic countries. I have Swedish and Finnish acquaintances who insist that women and nightlife wise Copenhagen is the worst Nordic capital city. The geography of the country (the only one with a land border to Western/Central Europe) could also explain its sub-par genetic quality compared to Sweden, Norway and Finland.

[Saladin]

Toronto's decent in the college/uni scene. If you put in a good amount of effort and have some luck you can find a decent niche. You just gotta learn when to capitalize on girls who are interested and have decent logistics.
However Toronto's not that great for older guys unless you have super tight game. I know guys that do, their game is unbelievable.

Toronto's still a shithole compared to other places in the world. You have to become super icy here if you want to do well with cold approach. Zero sign of weakness and super tight game are required.

[ManAbout]

(12-18-2011 01:46 AM)torontokid Wrote:  

However Toronto's not that great for older guys unless you have super tight game.

This. Once you get out of the college/uni scene it gets much harder to pick up women in Toronto.

[Get D]

Never been to either but I'd pick Copenhagen or DC. I never believed it when people would say DC is that bad. But what's the knock on Copenhagen? I've never heard it mentioned as a contender for the worst.

I'm currently living in Toronto and can confirm that it is as bad as y'all have heard. It has to be the worst large North American city for dating. I can't imagine anybody in their right mind saying that it is not bad. So what makes it that bad?

There are two things anybody thinking of moving here must know before coming. These are:

1) Women (not all of course) here are highly averse to meeting men in certain ways. Basically it's only socially acceptable to meet men through work, friends, or online dating. This means that the overwhelming majority of women will reject you automatically just because of the circumstances of your approach. Clubs are especially out; women here just don't meet men in clubs. Almost all women here go to clubs to dance with their friends. Their disinterest is evident.

For obvious reasons 1) basically affects the whole vibe of the city.

2) I have seen Toronto women get slammed for being golddiggers, but I actually think they're more interested in a man's looks than his wallet. (They're probably interested in a man's wallet when his looks don't make him stand out.) The problem here is that they have such an inflated sense of their attractiveness that most of them think they deserve someone who is better looking than they are. So you'll have female 6s rejecting their male couterparts (6s), and thinking that they deserve a 8, 9 or 10. So if you're a good looking man you could do very well here since looks are so important to women here -- if 1) wasn't a problem. But since it is that means you could be a 10 and still have a hard time here if you have a small or no social circle.

There are other important things that worth knowing, but in my opinion these are the two central things anybody thinking of moving here most needs to know.

[InternationPlayboy]

Toranto, I've met way too many hotties from Toranto to choose DC or Copenhagen.

[Get D]

(12-18-2011 09:18 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

Toranto, I've met way too many hotties from Toranto to choose DC or Copenhagen.

How did you meet these hotties?

[InternationPlayboy]

(12-18-2011 09:20 PM)Get D Wrote:  

(12-18-2011 09:18 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

Toranto, I've met way too many hotties from Toranto to choose DC or Copenhagen.

How did you meet these hotties?

In Miami. It also seems to be super international. Looks like you get a mix of just about anything. I've met lots of middle eastern girls from totanto as well, which I love the look. There are tons of girls that come in from Canada here in Miami.

[garygroundwork]

(12-18-2011 09:06 PM)Get D Wrote:  

Never been to either but I'd pick Copenhagen or DC. I never believed it when people would say DC is that bad. But what's the knock on Copenhagen? I've never heard it mentioned as a contender for the worst.

I'm currently living in Toronto and can confirm that it is as bad as y'all have heard. It has to be the worst large North American city for dating. I can't imagine anybody in their right mind saying that it is not bad. So what makes it that bad?

There are two things anybody thinking of moving here must know before coming. These are:

1) Women (not all of course) here are highly averse to meeting men in certain ways. Basically it's only socially acceptable to meet men through work, friends, or online dating. This means that the overwhelming majority of women will reject you automatically just because of the circumstances of your approach. Clubs are especially out; women here just don't meet men in clubs. Almost all women here go to clubs to dance with their friends. Their disinterest is evident.

For obvious reasons 1) basically affects the whole vibe of the city.

2) I have seen Toronto women get slammed for being golddiggers, but I actually think they're more interested in a man's looks than his wallet. (They're probably interested in a man's wallet when his looks don't make him stand out.) The problem here is that they have such an inflated sense of their attractiveness that most of them think they deserve someone who is better looking than they are. So you'll have female 6s rejecting their male couterparts (6s), and thinking that they deserve a 8, 9 or 10. So if you're a good looking man you could do very well here since looks are so important to women here -- if 1) wasn't a problem. But since it is that means you could be a 10 and still have a hard time here if you have a small or no social circle.

There are other important things that worth knowing, but in my opinion these are the two central things anybody thinking of moving here most needs to know.

jesus this sounds exactly like Adelaide in australia only Toronto has other things going for it

[InternationPlayboy]

(12-18-2011 09:06 PM)Get D Wrote:  

2) I have seen Toronto women get slammed for being golddiggers, but I actually think they're more interested in a man's looks than his wallet. (They're probably interested in a man's wallet when his looks don't make him stand out.) The problem here is that they have such an inflated sense of their attractiveness that most of them think they deserve someone who is better looking than they are. So you'll have female 6s rejecting their male couterparts (6s), and thinking that they deserve a 8, 9 or 10. So if you're a good looking man you could do very well here since looks are so important to women here -- if 1) wasn't a problem. But since it is that means you could be a 10 and still have a hard time here if you have a small or no social circle.

Try living in Miami. I've never seen so many average-ugly looking girls think they were the hottest shit. BUT... on that note, there are TONS of girls that ARE that good looking too. So I guess you can't hate that much. It's just most the ugly girls have just as shitty if not shittier attitude than the hotties.

[Get D]

(12-18-2011 09:25 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

(12-18-2011 09:20 PM)Get D Wrote:  

(12-18-2011 09:18 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

Toranto, I've met way too many hotties from Toranto to choose DC or Copenhagen.

How did you meet these hotties?

In Miami. It also seems to be super international. Looks like you get a mix of just about anything. I've met lots of middle eastern girls from totanto as well, which I love the look. There are tons of girls that come in from Canada here in Miami.

OK, so met Toronto chicks who weren't in Toronto when you met them. You have to keep in mind that women on vacation in a different enviroment aren't going to act the way as they do when they're at home.

[InternationPlayboy]

(12-18-2011 09:31 PM)Get D Wrote:  

(12-18-2011 09:25 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

(12-18-2011 09:20 PM)Get D Wrote:  

(12-18-2011 09:18 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

Toranto, I've met way too many hotties from Toranto to choose DC or Copenhagen.

How did you meet these hotties?

In Miami. It also seems to be super international. Looks like you get a mix of just about anything. I've met lots of middle eastern girls from totanto as well, which I love the look. There are tons of girls that come in from Canada here in Miami.

OK, so met Toronto chicks who weren't in Toronto when you met them. You have to keep in mind that women on vacation in a different enviroment aren't going to act the way as they do when they're at home.

Yeah, I already took this into consideration. I rarely meet good looking women from DC, and I meet a ton of girls from DC as well. Copenhagen, forget it. I've never met a good looking person from Denmark. I'd rather have my shot at a bunch of hot bitches than ugly friendly girls.

[AVisitor]

(12-18-2011 09:06 PM)Get D Wrote:  

Never been to either but I'd pick Copenhagen or DC. I never believed it when people would say DC is that bad. But what's the knock on Copenhagen? I've never heard it mentioned as a contender for the worst.

I'm currently living in Toronto and can confirm that it is as bad as y'all have heard. It has to be the worst large North American city for dating. I can't imagine anybody in their right mind saying that it is not bad. So what makes it that bad?

There are two things anybody thinking of moving here must know before coming. These are:

1) Women (not all of course) here are highly averse to meeting men in certain ways. Basically it's only socially acceptable to meet men through work, friends, or online dating. This means that the overwhelming majority of women will reject you automatically just because of the circumstances of your approach. Clubs are especially out; women here just don't meet men in clubs. Almost all women here go to clubs to dance with their friends. Their disinterest is evident.

For obvious reasons 1) basically affects the whole vibe of the city.

2) I have seen Toronto women get slammed for being golddiggers, but I actually think they're more interested in a man's looks than his wallet. (They're probably interested in a man's wallet when his looks don't make him stand out.) The problem here is that they have such an inflated sense of their attractiveness that most of them think they deserve someone who is better looking than they are. So you'll have female 6s rejecting their male couterparts (6s), and thinking that they deserve a 8, 9 or 10. So if you're a good looking man you could do very well here since looks are so important to women here -- if 1) wasn't a problem. But since it is that means you could be a 10 and still have a hard time here if you have a small or no social circle.

There are other important things that worth knowing, but in my opinion these are the two central things anybody thinking of moving here most needs to know.

Thanks. Good report.

[rudebwoy]

Copenhagen by a country mile because it is surrounded by some great countries.

I live in Toronto and agree with everything that has been said about it, I am also sure girls from Toronto are great when they are not in the city. I would never call Toronto a shithole, trust me there are alot of places that have that title.

DC, not on my radar whatsoever.

[Get D]

If you only ever read one thing about Toronto read this: http://tomenunite.blogspot.com/2011/08/s...yway.html. The whole blog is full of insight, but that post contains what you most need to know about this city. (I have nothing to do with this blog.)

Toronto is unlike any other place I've ever been in terms of meeting women. It's just weird. Girls will actually be attracted to you, like your game and still give you a hard time (like not giving your their number), even though there is a good chance they won't ever see you again. I put it down to 1) (mentioned above).

[mofo]

Copenhagen

[AVisitor]

(12-19-2011 03:02 PM)Get D Wrote:  

If you only ever read one thing about Toronto read this: http://tomenunite.blogspot.com/2011/08/s...yway.html. The whole blog is full of insight, but that post contains what you most need to know about this city. (I have nothing to do with this blog.)

This post on that blog drew my attention:

Quote:

I moved to Toronto 4 years ago and my life has changed dramatically ever since. I have become a deeply unmotivated individual, taking anti-depressants for the very first time and waking up every morning trying to find meaning to what I am doing. Needless to say, I never had to do this before, and my family back home asks me why am I still here. So I asked myself the same question, why am I here? After a minute of searching for the answer I finally decided to leave Toronto and go back home. They ask me what is it about Toronto that affected you so much. My response without any doubt: the women.

Pardon my language, but seriously, who the fuck do they think they are?

I as a man get rejected here by default.

...
If you're a decent guy from anywhere in the world, listen carefully: DO NOT move to this town. I repeat, DO NOT move here.
The grass is greener where you are.

http://tomenunite.blogspot.com/2011/08/r...orlds.html

Yeah, looks like Toronto sucks; possibly even worse than DC. Thanks for the link.

One issue seems to be extreme left-wing feminism,

Quote:

This city screams “Death to the Male gender” through its every pore. The visceral hatred and scorn felt in this town towards men is quite unique. It’s like all the men-hating entities of North America moved here.

[beta_plus]

(12-18-2011 11:57 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Copenhagen by a country mile because it is surrounded by some great countries.

I live in Toronto and agree with everything that has been said about it, I am also sure girls from Toronto are great when they are not in the city. I would never call Toronto a shithole, trust me there are alot of places that have that title.

DC, not on my radar whatsoever.

I don't want to be disrespectful, but that's a bit of a cheat, especially with cheap European flights. I could say that DC is great because I am close to Baltimore. I probably should have specified that you had to stay within the central areas of those 3 cities. Let's pretend that you are completely stuck in the relatively central areas (before countryside) of Copenhagen, DC, or Toronto, and cannot leave. What do you choose? Would it still be Copenhagen in that case? Fair enough if it is.

[MikeCF]

Toronto has some of the best strip clubs in the world.

[Sparks123]

[/quote]

I don't want to be disrespectful, but that's a bit of a cheat, especially with cheap European flights. I could say that DC is great because I am close to Baltimore. I probably should have specified that you had to stay within the central areas of those 3 cities. Let's pretend that you are completely stuck in the relatively central areas (before countryside) of Copenhagen, DC, or Toronto, and cannot leave. What do you choose? Would it still be Copenhagen in that case? Fair enough if it is.
[/quote]

It's a cheat if you're thinking in terms of leaving of city, but not if you're terms of what would be visiting the city (or working there). Living in Copenhagen, you'd be much more likely to meet EE women than in DC or Toronto. This is why I'd go with Copenhagen (along with the thinner women).

[rudebwoy]

(12-19-2011 11:22 PM)beta_plus Wrote:  

(12-18-2011 11:57 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Copenhagen by a country mile because it is surrounded by some great countries.

I live in Toronto and agree with everything that has been said about it, I am also sure girls from Toronto are great when they are not in the city. I would never call Toronto a shithole, trust me there are alot of places that have that title.

DC, not on my radar whatsoever.

I don't want to be disrespectful, but that's a bit of a cheat, especially with cheap European flights. I could say that DC is great because I am close to Baltimore. I probably should have specified that you had to stay within the central areas of those 3 cities. Let's pretend that you are completely stuck in the relatively central areas (before countryside) of Copenhagen, DC, or Toronto, and cannot leave. What do you choose? Would it still be Copenhagen in that case? Fair enough if it is.

No probs. I would say yes to Copenhagen, quite frankly escaping to Baltimore does not compare to escaping to Hamburg/Stockholm.

The thing about Toronto, is that you must have your A game. Your shit has to be together, I know guys that do well but they party hard and drop money. Not really my thing, so I prefer to be more selective.
The bar seems to be set way too high in terms of what girls want.
Strip clubs can be pretty good hunting grounds for a quick lay or short term relationship, I have had some success over the years in a few of these places.
Personally, if you have money to afford a downtown condo that is nicely laid out then you should win the battle of the bitches.

[beta_plus]

I don't want to be disrespectful, but that's a bit of a cheat, especially with cheap European flights. I could say that DC is great because I am close to Baltimore. I probably should have specified that you had to stay within the central areas of those 3 cities. Let's pretend that you are completely stuck in the relatively central areas (before countryside) of Copenhagen, DC, or Toronto, and cannot leave. What do you choose? Would it still be Copenhagen in that case? Fair enough if it is.
[/quote]

It's a cheat if you're thinking in terms of leaving of city, but not if you're terms of what would be visiting the city (or working there). Living in Copenhagen, you'd be much more likely to meet EE women than in DC or Toronto. This is why I'd go with Copenhagen (along with the thinner women).
[/quote]

If you have to work a job that has long hours but doesn't cover the cost of living in Copenhagen (which is one of the most expensive cities in the world), travel for the lengths necessary to pick up might be out the question. Not everyone in Denmark gets to work those wonderful short work weeks and get long vacations.

But the higher likelihood of EE girls actually being there definitely makes Copenhagen sound better.

[Sparks123]

Quote:

If you have to work a job that has long hours but doesn't cover the cost of living in Copenhagen (which is one of the most expensive cities in the world), travel for the lengths necessary to pick up might be out the question. Not everyone in Denmark gets to work those wonderful short work weeks and get long vacations.

But the higher likelihood of EE girls actually being there definitely makes Copenhagen sound better.

Well, for the purposes of answering his hypothetical question, I wasn't taking money into consideration, but having been to Copenhagen, I'm very aware of how expensive shit is. (50 Kroner for a beer!) I'm thinking merely in terms of lifestyle.

[Blunt]

(12-19-2011 03:02 PM)Get D Wrote:  

If you only ever read one thing about Toronto read this: http://tomenunite.blogspot.com/2011/08/s...yway.html. The whole blog is full of insight, but that post contains what you most need to know about this city. (I have nothing to do with this blog.)

Toronto is unlike any other place I've ever been in terms of meeting women. It's just weird. Girls will actually be attracted to you, like your game and still give you a hard time (like not giving your their number), even though there is a good chance they won't ever see you again. I put it down to 1) (mentioned above).

From the comments:

"Sasha Pua said...
Hey! What's up folks. REally glad I found this. My name's Sasha and i'm a full time dating coach... or "pick up artist" depending on who you ask. I'm from Toronto originally. I've lived in London for many years and have been all around Europe, meeting girls all over the place. I can say wholeheartedly - it's true. Toronto is absolutely brutal if you're a dude trying to meet some women. I mean, just brutal. There's no point in being there. If you have a dick - just fuck off and go somewhere else. Seriously. If you're FROM THERE - you've got a Canadian passport. There's no excuse. sell your shit, get a plane ticket, and MOVE ON. Otherwise you will die alone, depressed, in a pool of your own tears. I'm not kidding."

When I saw "Sasha PUA" I was expecting him to try and sell the author a product/method or tell him his game was not tight. Even dudes who make game their life hate it.

I think DC might be worse for transplants than for long term residents. Across the board the women are mediocre but when you've lived in the area a long time your social connections can get you the in with some MD/VA hotties. There are college girls which can be easy, but mostly they are mediocre as well. The colleges are too expensive in DC to meet girls going for the Mrs. degree.

[Saladin]

A coach I know in Toronto kills with with women here(almost 50 this year), he specializes in day game. Did a session with him and man he tore me apart for minute things that I never noticed before. Spent like 20 minutes practicing my opener. His day game is tight beyond belief, dude calibrates everything to the max, from the way he approaches to his opener.

He also has a cocky assholish swagger, and when he approaches he looks disinterested. He told me to talk over my shoulder to girls in the day until they started changing their body language.

In Toronto, you have to be extremely focused on details because Toronto women will tear you apart if you don't bring A game, especially in the day time.

In contrast, in Stockholm almost every girl I opened was polite and talked to me for a few minutes at least. Girls are way receptive to approaches there.

Over here, its like being the trenches, it fucking sucks but it'll make getting out of TO so much sweeter. Anywhere else you can approach whatever way you want and girls will love you because you have the balls to approach and are a relatively social guy. Over here its hard keeping confidence up because of the constant blowouts and extremely slow progress from day game. Daily meditation is a must and reading Eckhart Tolle is helpful. If you already have game Toronto may be good, but learning game is fucking hard since you can't really learn unless you actually get somewhere beyond the initial approach or a conversation and number at most.

IMO night game's better if you hit the college parties but Entertainment district also looks brutal from the times I've been there. The King Street and College St. scenes are quite better by comparison though.